ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.

[tp4tissue]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).

hmm, decisions

just buy the whole kit.. you can stow the right side somewhere else when you're not using it..

jeebus?

[Glod]

a redesign of the case could allow the teensy to go underneath phantom-style allowing the right hand to become the left land making a game pad

while im thinking like that.....

in fact a redesign of the acrylic case where things are flipped would also allow low-profile style cases where there is no lip (MOZ Phantom, GON, TEX, etc). we would just have to solder everything, including the expander, similar to soldering the teensy on a phantom (flush with pcb).

sooo you know what would be cool if the ergodox pcb was redesigned to have pre-soldered parts? a GON aluminium ErgoDox case..... that would be awesome Korean custom ergodox

[justnits]

it'll be nice to have a RGB led to indicate which layer you're at right now 

[MOZ]

Working on redesign to support Alps/MX and SMD components, with LED support.

I'm in the phase of laying out all the components on the PCB, and then it is onto routing.

I'll post the schematic soon.

[clickclack123]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).

Although my newly-arrived Ergodox has other problems, it does seem to work fine only using the right side (the side with the teensy).

[MOZ]

Here is the schematic.

As you can see I've implemented:
- Some ESD/EMI suppresion
- Onboard MCU and backlight support as well
- MiniUSB instead of TRRS
- Alps support

This should allow one to use:
- Left and right hand together as it is used currently
- Only one hand (Left or right)
- It should also allow a user to use both hands together or pull-out the inter-hand connection and use either hand standalone (Currently can only be done with the side with the Teensy), what this would require is a MCU on both sides and no I/O expander soldered, the firmware will have to be modded to allow I2C communication between the two MCUs for combined mode. However it is a possibility nonetheless.

Truth be told, the two MCU approach is much better and flexible too, as each MCU will do the polling and will store config for it's own hand and relay to USB connected side. As explained earlier, both hands can be used individually as well as via interconnection. Only downside is that firmware will have to be modded.

[bazh]

that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going

[MOZ]

that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going

Expect what?

[justnits]

that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going

Expect what?

ErgoMOZ

[bazh]

that's exactly what I expect for the next ErgoDOX, Moz, keep that going

Expect what?

Full led support and onboard MCU

[MOZ]

How open are people to the idea of 6 extra keys up top on the ergodox aligned towards the inner side of the keyboard.

I ask this, as currently it is proving to be impossible to fit all the controller components on the PCB since it is double sides and I want the components to be mountable on either side, accessible at the bottom, so you need not remove switches to access them. This is very hard with the flip-able design, so I will most likely have to mount them up top (Where the Teensy is currently), I might be able to squeeze it in one corner on the outermost side.

[justnits]

How open are people to the idea of 6 extra keys up top on the ergodox aligned towards the inner side of the keyboard.

I ask this, as currently it is proving to be impossible to fit all the controller components on the PCB since it is double sides and I want the components to be mountable on either side, accessible at the bottom, so you need not remove switches to access them. This is very hard with the flip-able design, so I will most likely have to mount them up top (Where the Teensy is currently), I might be able to squeeze it in one corner on the outermost side.

any draft drawing you can show?

[mattmanning]

**UPDATE** Diodes are directional, you guys!! I'm an idiot. I didn't even think to check the polarity and just soldered on a bunch of surface-mount diodes. Once I put them back in the right direction everything worked. *facepalm*

Hey folks. I'm having a lot of trouble with an ergodox build and I was hoping someone here could help. I've got a ton of keys that aren't working. I made a map of them here: http://cl.ly/image/1h0Y1x0m0O43

Does that present a pattern recognizable to anyone here? I'm very experienced with soldering, and I've triple checked everything with a multimeter. I really don't think it's a soldering issue. Even if there were soldering issues I would expect them to affect either all the keys or a small handful, not ~half of them like this, right? I'm so confused.

If you're curious you can see build photos in my twitter stream starting here: https://twitter.com/mattmanning/status/432316591573716992

If anyone here has any suggestions I would be really eager to hear them. Also sorry if this is the wrong place to ask for help. If that's the case can someone please redirect me?

Thanks.

[zflamewing]

Does anyone know if the files for Lister's acrylic case for the ergodox are crafted on a scale or true to size?  I'm trying to answer questions I'm getting from a person my wife sourced that crafts stuff for her company.

[MOZ]

To size.

[Findecanor]

The CAD files on ergodox.org are made to size. Do you have other files?
If you have to import to Inkscape, you have to have turned off scaling.

[JustCallMeCrash]

Does anyone have their Ergodox working wirelessly?  I have 3 of them and would love to liberate my desktops from wires where possible.  I have tried this with no success: http://handheldsci.com/kb

[f2015009]

POLL - Please vote:
Which Cherry MX switches do you prefer for ErgoDox?
To vote please visit the poll at massdrop.com which you find here: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/ergodox-which-cherry-mx-switches-do-you-prefer

[f2015009]

POLL - Please vote:
ErgoDox: Which Keycaps should be added to the kit?
To vote please visit the poll at massdrop.com which you find here: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/ergodox-which-keycaps-should-be-added-to-the-kit

[clickclack123]

Here's a tip: stabilizers are really nice on the 2x1 thumbkeys. People have said that it doesn't matter but mine felt much more wobbly and grating without them. Mine has brown switches.

Also, you know what would be cool: if the Ergodox sent a text picture of its current layout to the debug screen of hid_listen.exe when you switch layers or press a "panic" button.

[eviltobz]

well, the code's up on github, get to it clicky

[clickclack123]

well, the code's up on github, get to it clicky

I registered on GitHub today! Soon... How hard can it be?

edit: I'm using tmk firmware btw.

[eviltobz]

...How hard can it be?
edit: I'm using tmk firmware btw.

heh, that's the question isn't it i've hacked at the ergodox specific code that ic07 put together and for that my answer would be "harder than i'd like, but prolly not nearly as hard as it could have been"

[dsmitify]

I was thinking about a little mod for the ergodox.
Do u guys think that making the 2 keys 1.5 would be better from the ergonomically point of view?
I think these 2 keys are hit with the thumb?

[clickclack123]

I was thinking about a little mod for the ergodox.
Do u guys think that making the 2 keys 1.5 would be better from the ergonomically point of view?
I think these 2 keys are hit with the thumb?

Personally I only hit the first one with my thumb sometimes. It feels a bit uncomfortable to me to hit the second one with my thumb, it's too far under my palm. I don't think having a 1.5 in the first position would improve the feel, the 1 sits exactly where the end of my thumb goes.

What I do think would be good is to have an extra thumb key, and rotate the thumbkeys around a bit. Like the right hand of this shopped pic I just did.

[MOZ]

Why not replace the third column's 2 1u keys with 1 2u key

[dsmitify]

Seeing how i use my current keyboard (natural ergonomic keyboard 4000) it would be very comfortable to have those 2 bigger (i think/imagine).
I can reach them easy and without stress to my thumbs.

[clickclack123]

Why not replace the third column's 2 1u keys with 1 2u key

I actually find the 1u keys hard to reach. They're too far away IMO. My thumb's "neutral" position is just about right on the first 2u, ie the right 2u on the right hand.

[skcheng]

Can anyone point me to the next Massdrop GB on the ErgoDox?    I'd like to buy a couple of them. 

thx,

skc

[clickclack123]

Can anyone point me to the next Massdrop GB on the ErgoDox?    I'd like to buy a couple of them. 

thx,

skc

If you go to https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox and click on "notify me" or whatever it is on the right hand side (just says "requested" for me since I've already done it), they will email you when the buy is on again.

I'd bet the house that someone will mention it in this thread when they are available again as well.

[justnits]

Can anyone point me to the next Massdrop GB on the ErgoDox?    I'd like to buy a couple of them. 

thx,

skc

if i'm not mistaken, they will be doing the groupbuy again somewhere next month.

[technomancy]

Do u guys think that making the 2 keys 1.5 would be better from the ergonomically point of view?
I think these 2 keys are hit with the thumb?

I actually replaced the inner 2x keys on each thumb cluster with a 1.5x instead. This makes the remaining 2xes a bit easier to hit. I don't really use anything but the first key on the bottom row myself. This might vary based on the size of your hand though; a friend of mine actually uses the 1x keys on the thumb clusters, which I can't hit at all while touch typing.

[lonedruid]

wow. i just arrived at an uncharted place in geekhack wonderland. 

[tricheboars]

Digikey has 12,000 trrs connectors in Stock now. So I guess the shortage is over.

[clickclack123]

wow. i just arrived at an uncharted place in geekhack wonderland. 

3183 Replies
189262 Views

Hmm... That's a lot of views for uncharted territory. 

[JamesFnord]

Hey chaps, been running into a bit of a problem with my dox, some of the keys on the right hand side (the side with the teensy) are intermittently not registering or registering twice. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem might be? I've already checked all the solder joints on the switches and none of those seem to be the problem.

[clickclack123]

Hey chaps, been running into a bit of a problem with my dox, some of the keys on the right hand side (the side with the teensy) are intermittently not registering or registering twice. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem might be? I've already checked all the solder joints on the switches and none of those seem to be the problem.

I'd replace the switches that are having problems.

[Findecanor]

Something I just discovered:
If you are design your own switch-mounting plates for ErgoDox and you plan to use Cherry stabilisers, make sure that the stabiliser wire is on the opposite side from where the diode is supposed to be ... 

[Jette]

I got my kit about 3 weeks ago. I've been working on putting it together ever since, and it's just about finished, but I've been running into some problems. I've managed to get most keys working and the board plugs in and works fine, gets registered as a USB device, etc. I could use some help from anyone with a little more experience with soldering, and with the ErgoDox in particular.

1) A lot of keys on the left-hand side are registering at once, all along the left row. If I press 1 or =, I get 1= at the same time. If I press q or \, I get \q at the same time, etc.

2) One of the little square pads on that side has come loose (according to this, it's the L_GUI key) , probably from my having to solder and desolder the diodes too many times (the guide on MD doesn't mention that, for instance, the direction of the diodes matters, and at first I soldered all 76 on the wrong side of their respective PCBs, so I had to flip them all several times, on top of a few other problems I ran into). I can't figure out how to solder the diode back on without the pad, and I have no idea how to fix it.

3) None of the keys along the bottom row of the right-hand board work. According to this image, those should be the four arrow keys and the R_GUI key. I'm using OS X to test it, so I assume that's supposed to be either Option or Command.

4) None of the la 1+-1 keys register. I freely admit that this could be the way I'm testing the keyboard, though, because I'm using the EventViewer program that comes with "KeyRemap4Macbook" program, and it shows keypress events as interpreted by the system, not raw USB input. It could be that those keys don't do anything on a Mac, because I haven't heard of them until now.

5) Neither of the arrow keys on the lower-left side of the left board work.

6) When the board is connected, a burst of directions occurs: right, left, down, up, once each.

There are a few other keys that don't work yet, but I believe that has to do with shoddy soldering, and I'll re-do them before I worry about whether they work.

I'm eager to finish this thing up and start learning to type on it (switching from a Truly Ergonomic), so any advice would be appreciated.

[eviltobz]

4) None of the la 1+-1 keys register. I freely admit that this could be the way I'm testing the keyboard, though, because I'm using the EventViewer program that comes with "KeyRemap4Macbook" program, and it shows keypress events as interpreted by the system, not raw USB input. It could be that those keys don't do anything on a Mac, because I haven't heard of them until now.

that'll be layer shifting keys which don't do anything to feed back to the host. it's something internal to the keyboard so that you can program it to send different key events when you switch layers - think about a laptop keyboard that has a numberpad sharing with the letter keys, you can use it to do stuff like that.

the firmware has 2 different ways of working with layers, you can either press a button to activate it, and then another to deactivate it (as long as you configure a suitable layout!) or have it only activate the layer whilst you hold down the layer shift key. think caps lock vs holding shift. i use the holdy-downy flavour to give me number pad, F-keys and the like, and the permanent switchy variety to switch between mac & windows configs (mostly swapping cmd & ctrl keys) and to switch my layout from colemak to stupid mode  (also known as qwerty).

'fraid i don't have any answers about the other things.

[Jette]

Thanks, definitely helpful, that'll help me figure out whether or not they work.

On that note, another pad has come off, this one on the Enter key (one of the ones that I thought wasn't working because of the bad connection). I can ignore a missing extra Command key, but not having an Enter key will make the keyboard essentially unusable. If there's anybody who can help with that, I'd sure appreciate it.

[clickclack123]

Thanks, definitely helpful, that'll help me figure out whether or not they work.

On that note, another pad has come off, this one on the Enter key (one of the ones that I thought wasn't working because of the bad connection). I can ignore a missing extra Command key, but not having an Enter key will make the keyboard essentially unusable. If there's anybody who can help with that, I'd sure appreciate it.

Sounds like your board has a lot of problems! It is almost certainly because of shoddy soldering. Also you should check to make 100% sure that your diodes are the correct way around. The cathode of each diode needs to be connected to the square pad for each switch.



Remember that the whole point of a pcb is to connect certain component leads to other component leads via the copper tracks on the board. So if you're missing a pad, you can usually just solder the component directly to the leads that it needs to be connected to, which will be electrically identical to if the pcb pad was there like it should be. Have a look at how I added a resistor to my board in this post here. The black insulation on the resistor is heatshrink tubing, which is super useful, but you could just use insulation tape instead.

The thing about the ergodox is that every key is completely programmable. I'd make a "testing" layout where every key is just a letter or a number (no layer switching/shift key/ctrl key/etc), so I can easily tell exactly what key or keys the ergodox thinks are being pressed.

Re: your enter key problem, remember that any key can be made to be an enter key if you want! That's what so great about the ergodox and other programmable keyboards!

The keys are arranged in a matrix, so if the keyboard is sensing that a whole row is being pressed at once, it is likely that that row sensing line is being shorted to the ground plane or another row line somewhere. This post has a picture of how a single line is connected to all thumb keys, it's a similar idea for different rows.

Although I think the Ergodox is a ridiculously great design, I'm not a big fan of the ground plane that is all over the board that is so easy to short with a point somewhere to knock out whole rows at a time. It's very hard to troubleshoot at that point because there are so many places where it could be shorted.

If you have a multimeter with a continuity buzzer, that can be very helpful to manually tell which lines are being shorted.

Edit: You might find my thread here useful just to see how I approached troubleshooting my Ergodox that had a similar sounding problem to yours (one of your board's problems anyway!) where it would think that all the thumb keys on the left hand were being held down.

[SubGothius]

I’m putting together an Ergodox, and would like to put the LEDs somewhere visible [e.g. up at the top] instead of buried inside a solid black keycap.

One option is supposed to be swapping the positions of the LEDs and the resistors, but I can’t find any pictures/descriptions online of exactly how that is done. Where exactly should I be putting the resistors? The holes for the LED leads are very close together, so I guess I have to attach at least one end of the resistor by bending its lead back to fit, or perhaps via a tiny bit of patch cable?

Does anyone have other advice about this?

I did this on my first ErgoDox; getting the LEDs well-positioned was a bit tricky -- see the last paragraph and photo here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg903055#msg903055

I've also built a second ErgoDox (one for home, one for work ;^), where I retained the original LED/resistor positions, but I mounted the LEDs under the PCB and bent off to the side, so they shine though the inboard edge of the case; I think I prefer this approach over the swap method.

[Jette]

Sounds like your board has a lot of problems! It is almost certainly because of shoddy soldering.

Yeah, no kidding. The people I've spoken to who told me that this is a good first time project clearly don't grasp what "first time" means.

I found a loupe in my junk drawer and saw a bunch of tiny solder bridges on the I/O expander, which fixed the rows that seemed to be tied together.

The only problems remaining now (that I know of) are the Enter and right Command keys (SW1:13 and SW0:2). I'll rebind a key to Enter for now, but I'd really rather fix the problem than pretend it isn't there. I've tried soldering the diodes on without the pads, but the solder won't stay on the diode no matter what I do, it either gets sucked up onto the iron or beneath the diode itself, or migrates onto one of the nearby holes. I think they would work if I could connect them as you suggested, but the solder turns into a semi-sentient, gelatinous blob of angry mercury every time I try to attach it.

Thanks for the help, anyway. Here's hoping they do another keycap drop on MD sometime soon; I haven't liked any of the blanks, so I've got a sort of Frankenboard right now. And I'm still waiting on the aluminum plates I ordered...

[clickclack123]

Sounds like your board has a lot of problems! It is almost certainly because of shoddy soldering.

Yeah, no kidding. The people I've spoken to who told me that this is a good first time project clearly don't grasp what "first time" means.

I found a loupe in my junk drawer and saw a bunch of tiny solder bridges on the I/O expander, which fixed the rows that seemed to be tied together.

The only problems remaining now (that I know of) are the Enter and right Command keys (SW1:13 and SW0:2). I'll rebind a key to Enter for now, but I'd really rather fix the problem than pretend it isn't there. I've tried soldering the diodes on without the pads, but the solder won't stay on the diode no matter what I do, it either gets sucked up onto the iron or beneath the diode itself, or migrates onto one of the nearby holes. I think they would work if I could connect them as you suggested, but the solder turns into a semi-sentient, gelatinous blob of angry mercury every time I try to attach it.

Agreed about the first time thing, I wouldn't want to attempt something as fiddly as an Ergodox on my first time soldering...

Congratulations on fixing most of your problems with the board though. That's probably the most important part of hobby electronics, learning how to solve the problems that you created... 

Flux may be your friend if solder won't stick to the diodes. I've never had a problem with solder not sticking to the leads of a resistor/diode though... They are pre-tinned, solder sticks to them like crazy in my experience. I hope you're not trying to solder to the glass part or something. 

BTW if you're lifting pads, your iron may be too hot, or more likely you are waaaay too slow when soldering. I ended up desoldering and resoldering the switches and diodes on the  thumbs of my Ergodox at least three times, and none of my pads have lifted.

I'd suggest watching some videos on youtube on soldering.

If you're careful, you can use a wire to simulate the enter switch being pressed, to try to identify where the problem lies. You can also short between the row and column pins on the teensy or IO Expander.

Edit: You should post a picture of the board around the Enter switch and we can walk you through what you need to do.

[Jette]

When I hear "flux," I think of microwaves, bogus time travel, a forgettable movie with Charlize Theron, and an exceptionally unpleasant gastrointestinal disorder, none of which sound like what you're referring to.

The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.

I watched an ErgoDox assembly video, but that guy had access to some toys I'd never seen, including some sort of magic soldering wand that doesn't have to touch anything (I assume it blasts hot air or something).

Not sure what glass part you're talking about. I haven't been trying to solder on the acrylic plates, if that's what you mean.

I attached some images. This lens isn't exactly made for macro photography, so forgive the cruddy image quality. I can try and get some better shots if you need them.

[bpiphany]

Through hole soldering doesn't get much easier or harder than the ErgoDox, so I would say it is as good a first time project as anything. Too large and expensive to mess up perhaps, but that is another story. De-soldering and re-soldering some old scrap through hole board could be the best first time project. De-soldering is not always that easy though.

The SMD diodes on the ErgoDox is another story, but through hole diodes is a good option. The large ground plane can be a bit unforgiving as well with a weak iron.

[clickclack123]

When I hear "flux," I think of microwaves, bogus time travel, a forgettable movie with Charlize Theron, and an exceptionally unpleasant gastrointestinal disorder, none of which sound like what you're referring to.

The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.

Well, there's your problem. Electronics irons are usually in the range of 20-60W! And temperature controlled is best. I'd be willing to bet that you fried the diode, at the very least. And from looking at the black burn marks on the pcb, I'd be willing to bet that the pads haven't fared too well either.

I watched an ErgoDox assembly video, but that guy had access to some toys I'd never seen, including some sort of magic soldering wand that doesn't have to touch anything (I assume it blasts hot air or something).

Not sure what glass part you're talking about. I haven't been trying to solder on the acrylic plates, if that's what you mean.

I thought you were using through-hole diodes, which are like a glass cylinder. I didn't realize you were using smd diodes, which IMO are too fiddly for a beginner to start with. Especially a beginner with a 120W iron!

I attached some images. This lens isn't exactly made for macro photography, so forgive the cruddy image quality. I can try and get some better shots if you need them.

Yeah, those pics weren't great, but I can still see that the board is really burnt. You might need a bit of skill to fix it up, and I don't think a 120W non-temp controlled iron will give you that skill. A good digital temp controlled soldering station is cheap from china nowadays, and a great investment really. I got one new from ebay with a magic hot air gun (great for smd stuff using solder paste) for US$75 or so, delivered!

Try (carefully!) using a piece of hookup wire or a bent paperclip to short out the pins between the purple arrows that I've marked below to simulate the switch being pressed. If that works, it's either the diode or the switch that isn't working. I'd bet on the diode from the amount of heat that must have been applied to it.

Don't worry, diodes are cheap as anything, just get some through-hole 1N4148's, snip the leads short and use those. They'll be easier for a beginner. If you get some, you can actually just solder them between the green arrow points on the picture and avoid the destroyed pads on the board. Quickly remove the ruined smd diode before that.



Don't worry, it doesn't look great, but it looks fixable.

edit: looks to me like there could be a short between the diode and the ground plane, where the green arrows are on this pic:

[Jette]

The MD guide mentioned through-hole and surface-mount diodes, the former being discouraged due to "spacing problems." It said the ergodox kit comes with both, but I didn't get any through-hole ones at all, just the surface-mount ones.

I bought the iron in a "learn to solder" kit from someone on this website, who said it'd be fine for the ergodox. Not sure why he'd send one so much higher than necessary.

I'd like to get a better iron, but I'm not spending any more money on this thing until I know that it will work when I'm done. I've already dropped $400 on the ergodox kit plus the soldering kit.

Apart from the superfluous quantity, are these what I'm looking for? It's got the model number you mentioned, but I'm not sure what the other specifications mean.

Sorry for all the trouble. If I'd known it'd be this much of a pain I wouldn't have bought it, but everyone I spoke to swore up and down it was easy enough for a beginner to do in an afternoon.

[Findecanor]

The iron should be fine, it's 120W 30V non-temperature controlled. Sounds close to what the assembly guide recommends.

I think you got the Watts and Volts mixed up. You mean 30W? The voltage should only match what is in your outlet: 120V in the US, 220V-240V in Europe.
I think that the wattage of the temperature-controlled soldering irons is not so important: it limits what maximum temperature it can provide.

I use a 15W soldering iron that is not temperature-controlled and it worked fine. It only needs a minute to get hot enough before I start using it. I have had problems with a 30W iron destroying the pads on a PCB when I have used it to desolder switches.