geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: mind_funeral on Thu, 25 August 2016, 10:37:46
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I bought a BTC-5100c for $30 bucks on eBay.
(http://i.imgur.com/dKfEUmT.jpg)
The layout is odd but surprisingly easy to get used to. Notice the tiny function row and tiny space bar. All keys are MX mount except the function row (more of that below) which is really nice because a good many of the recent GMK sets will fit this board with the exception of the spacebar (and you'll have an off legend function and enter key).
Because I couldn't find this info anywhere, the odd shaped key caps are as follows:
| Key | Unit Size |
| Space | 4.5u |
| Fn, Ctrl, Alt | 1.5u |
| Backspace | 1.5u |
| Enter | 1.75u |
| R Shift | 1.25u |
| Func Row | 0.853u |
Note:
4.5 units (85mm wide, 3 mounts, 34.671mm apart)
One center mount and two stabiliser mounts 1.82 units (34.671mm) left and right of the center.
For this space bar exist molds in the Signature Plastics SA-family.
The spacebar on the BTC fits the description (including stab spacing) above but is not SA profile. Also, as of 8/25/16, Signature Plastics does not currently sell a 4.5u spacebar on www.pimpmykeyboard.com (http://pimpmykeyboard.com/sa-spacebars-pack-of-1/), only 4u and 4.75u. I'm not sure if the Deskthority Wiki is incorrect, or SP has stopped production, or if the mold still exists (if it ever did).
And here is the keyset in the keyboard layout editor (Colors not true to life, I just picked some). BTC-5100c Layout (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/##@@_y:0.5&c=%23a7a398&f:2&w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Esc&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F1&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F2&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F3&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F4&_x:8.881784197001252e-16&w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F5&_x:-8.881784197001252e-16&w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F6&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F7&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F8&_x:8.881784197001252e-16&w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F9&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=F10&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Num%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0ALock&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Prt%20%20Sc%0ASysRq&_x:1.7763568394002505e-15&w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Scroll%20Lock&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Pause%0ABreak&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Insert&_w:0.852941&h:0.852941%3B&=Delete%3B&@_c=%23e3e5d8&f:3%3B&=~%0A%60&=!%0A1&=%2F@%0A2&=%23%0A3&=$%0A4&=%25%0A5&=%5E%0A6&_fa@:0&:0&:2%3B%3B&=%2F&%0A7%0A7&=*%0A8%0A8&=(%0A9%0A9&=)%0A0%0A*&=%2F_%0A-&=+%0A%2F=&_c=%23a7a398&fa@:0&:0&:2&:0&:0&:0&:9%3B&w:1.5%3B&=Backspace%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Left'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%3B&@_w:1.5%3B&=Tab&_c=%23e3e5d8%3B&=Q&=W&=E&=R&=T&=Y&=U%0A%0A4&=I%0A%0A5&=O%0A%0A6&=P%0A%0A%2F_&=%7B%0A%5B&=%7D%0A%5D&=%7C%0A%5C%3B&@_c=%23a7a398&w:1.75%3B&=Caps%20Lock&_c=%23e3e5d8%3B&=A&=S&=D&=F&=G&=H&=J%0A%0A1&=K%0A%0A2&=L%0A%0A3&=%2F:%0A%2F%3B%0A+&=%22%0A'&_c=%23a7a398&w:1.75%3B&=Enter%3B&@_w:2.25%3B&=Shift&_c=%23e3e5d8%3B&=Z&=X&=C&=V&=B&=N&=M%0A%0A0&=%3C%0A,&=%3E%0A.%0A.&=%3F%0A%2F%2F%0A%2F%2F&_c=%23a7a398&fa@:7%3B&w:1.25%3B&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Up'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0A%0AShift&_a:5%3B&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Up'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%0APgUp%3B&@_a:4&f:3&w:1.5%3B&=Fn&_f:3&w:1.5%3B&=Ctrl&_f:3&w:1.5%3B&=Alt&_c=%23e3e5d8&a:7&w:5%3B&=&_c=%23a7a398&a:4&f:3%3B&=Alt&_f:3%3B&=Ctrl&_a:5&f:3%3B&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Left'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%0AHome&_f:3%3B&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Right'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%0AEnd&_f:3%3B&=%3Ci%20class%2F='kb%20kb-Arrows-Down'%3E%3C%2F%2Fi%3E%0APgDn)
The sound seems louder than my Topre Type Heaven but that has been silenced for most of its life so I don't quite remember the original sound. The BTC has less of a Topre "thock" and more of an "aquatic" sound. That's the best way to describe the sound although it's a **** description. I came across the video below a while back and based on the video alone, I knew I had to buy one. The video is a very accurate representation of the sound.
One thing to note is that the DIN model superior to the PS2 model. So if you're going to use it on USB you need: a DIN female to PS2 adapter (this is passive), and a PS2 to USB converter (this is active).
DIN model sounds better and I think it feels better. Here's a video showing the difference in sound.
Finally, here's my tear down of the BTC-5100c.
Back of case. Flippers were scratchy, stiff and LOUD as **** but I put a drop of oil on each contact and it's silent now. Missing pad on the back but they're rock hard and not very grippy anyway. I plan on making some to replace them even though I use the flippers.
(http://i.imgur.com/KbLC7SO.jpg)
Caps off. I originally took the board apart to clean some of the grime out from under they keys and lube the sliders, though once I removed a few sliders, I realised they were already lubed which is pretty nice for a board of this age. I ended up having to re-lube anyway though because I washed the top shell of the case with dish soap. Weird stabs on the left shift. It's like a sleeve that some pegs on the key go into. Costar style stab on the spacebar (wire removed in this pic). MX stems on most keys. Function row is j
(http://i.imgur.com/tSR9wn0.jpg)
L to R: Left shift, alpha, function row keycaps. These caps are actually really decent. Thicker than SP DCS for sure. And though I don't have a photo, the legends are actually a decent bold laser etch -- not very fuzzy at all.
(http://i.imgur.com/W6Yqa2b.jpg)
Back of case removed. Weird grounding cable to a metal layer (2 to 3 times thicker than tin foil). Controller looks pretty clean and tidy. It's cool that cord is detachable without splicing, although it's in the case so that doesn't do much good. I have plans for a teensy/usb conversion for full programmability and I want to use the original thick, coiled cord if possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/flpX04m.jpg)
Foil and cord removed. Unfortunately I could not find a build date anywhere :(
(http://i.imgur.com/7tf6m3x.jpg)
Nice domes, really nice PCB for the price of the keyboard. I didn't remove the domes because they were semi-stuck to the PCB and I didn't wanna damage it or potentially ruin the sound/feel. The left shift dome is an odd green. It's also weird that there are 2 unused contacts on either side of shift dome. Not sure what those were for as this is the only layout I've seen on this board.
(http://i.imgur.com/6wGTgy8.jpg)
This keyboard doesn't get much attention as of late and I think that's primarily because of the lack of information on it. I hope what I've provided here prompts people to go get their hands on a serious $30 Topre alternative with MX keycap compatibility.
Thanks for reading!
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Nice write up :)
If it helps any I have seen this model, NIB, for as low as $10 on eBay :eek:
BTC has some good rubber dome boards, I think with the 5100 the compact case helps it feel a bit "tighter" so to say. I had a full size version with these same domes, and it felt pretty dull. I would love a BTC board full of nothing but those single piece green domes. They're my favorite of the lot :)
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Nice write up :)
If it helps any I have seen this model, NIB, for as low as $10 on eBay :eek:
BTC has some good rubber dome boards, I think with the 5100 the compact case helps it feel a bit "tighter" so to say. I had a full size version with these same domes, and it felt pretty dull. I would love a BTC board full of nothing but those single piece green domes. They're my favorite of the lot :)
$10 was a steal! Recently someone was selling new old stock Siig Minitouches for around $80!
Was your fullsize board PS2 or 5 pin DIN?
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Nice one, good write-up! :) The switches are BTC dome with slider which I've reviewed myself, I find them outstanding as far as rubber domes go, essentially the poor man's Topre, I think. If you fancy the idea of Topre but don't want to spend a million billion on a Topre board, getting one of these BTCs is definitely a great choice I think :) . The sound is very typical, but I think it's pretty good too :) .
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so seeing those black dots on the dome , this actuates at the bottom right ?
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so seeing those black dots on the dome , this actuates at the bottom right ?
They're a type of conductive pad that bridges the trace gap on the PCB.
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Nice one, good write-up! :) The switches are BTC dome with slider which I've reviewed myself, I find them outstanding as far as rubber domes go, essentially the poor man's Topre, I think. If you fancy the idea of Topre but don't want to spend a million billion on a Topre board, getting one of these BTCs is definitely a great choice I think :) . The sound is very typical, but I think it's pretty good too :) .
Thanks for the blessing! I love your videos! I've seen most of your reviews and actually your channel specifically got me into vintage keyboards. I had seen the rarest and most expensive IBMs and other popular ones gawked and drooled over everywhere and I wasn't that interested. Only when I saw your heaps and heaps of lesser know and cheap keyboards is when I got interested, so thanks for making videos on the outcasts! I'ms till trying to find a Dell Bigfoot for a decent price because of your video.
Funny story, but I got my boss into mechanical keyboards and I sent him your "Quick Tips" playlist to educate him on all there is to know. Anyway he comes back from the weekend and, in front of about 5 other engineers (who have no idea what we're talking about), says "I watched those videos by that 'deep throat guy'..." Dead silence then a ton of laughter as he tried to explain that he meant to say "deep voice guy".
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Very nice write-up, thanks for sharing!
I have been thinking about getting one of these for a little while. It seems that BTC domes w/ sliders offer one of the best rubber dome experiences!
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Nice one, good write-up! :) The switches are BTC dome with slider which I've reviewed myself, I find them outstanding as far as rubber domes go, essentially the poor man's Topre, I think. If you fancy the idea of Topre but don't want to spend a million billion on a Topre board, getting one of these BTCs is definitely a great choice I think :) . The sound is very typical, but I think it's pretty good too :) .
Thanks for the blessing! I love your videos! I've seen most of your reviews and actually your channel specifically got me into vintage keyboards. I had seen the rarest and most expensive IBMs and other popular ones gawked and drooled over everywhere and I wasn't that interested. Only when I saw your heaps and heaps of lesser know and cheap keyboards is when I got interested, so thanks for making videos on the outcasts! I'ms till trying to find a Dell Bigfoot for a decent price because of your video.
Funny story, but I got my boss into mechanical keyboards and I sent him your "Quick Tips" playlist to educate him on all there is to know. Anyway he comes back from the weekend and, in front of about 5 other engineers (who have no idea what we're talking about), says "I watched those videos by that 'deep throat guy'..." Dead silence then a ton of laughter as he tried to explain that he meant to say "deep voice guy".
Oh dear xD . Don't tell me I'm going to be known as "that dep throat guy" xD .
I had to put the QKT series on halt for the moment as I'm very busy with my thesis, but hopefully I'll be able to pick them up again later.
Very nice write-up, thanks for sharing!
I have been thinking about getting one of these for a little while. It seems that BTC domes w/ sliders offer one of the best rubber dome experiences!
Yes, I'd say the BTC DwS models and the Scorpius domes are easily the best ones I've tried so far. They really stand out from the rest.
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I had to put the QKT series on halt for the moment as I'm very busy with my thesis, but hopefully I'll be able to pick them up again later.
Those are some of my favorite videos. Super informative. I go back and watch the ghosting/rollover video all the time because I can never remember how it works haha.
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I had to put the QKT series on halt for the moment as I'm very busy with my thesis, but hopefully I'll be able to pick them up again later.
Those are some of my favorite videos. Super informative. I go back and watch the ghosting/rollover video all the time because I can never remember how it works haha.
I have loads more planned, but atm I don't have time to do both reviews and QKT videos. I'll also be doing requests for them once I'm done with the basic keyboard things :) .
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I bought a BTC-5100c for $30 bucks on eBay.
I have one of these boards with the AT connector, I love it..
Usually you can find them new for pretty cheap on Ebay, not exactly a topre board, but still has plastic housings for the stems, so its kinda thocky, for the price, it pretty much owns any other rubber dome and most cherry boards imo..
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Got a NIB AT version in the mail today (50€ shipped from eBay). Hit typing speeds of 85 and 86 WPM on the first two attempts (previous high score was 85), so am very, very pleased with this board, too. I hate 60% boards as they have too few keys / lack function keys, so this fits the bill very nicely. The spacebar is rather noisy, though, and the Fn keys's position is not my favourite. For what it's worth, mine has lovely pink sliders... :thumb: Overall, not cheap but very special and well worth it. Just great to type on - really sort of a poor man's topre.
Thanks to OP for putting me onto this.
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
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I wouldn't go for those eBay ones as the connector is unusual and might not work with an adapter. Mine has a standard 5-pin DIN plug and works fine with a passive DIN to PS/2 adapter.
No, they're not capacitive but sound very much like topre switches and the key feel isn't too bad either.
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
I am comfortable with an iron. Did you replace the cable only? Can a PS2 cable be soldered to the pcb directly...?
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
I am comfortable with an iron. Did you replace the cable only? Can a PS2 cable be soldered to the pcb directly...?
Relevant information here: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/btc-5100c-t15094.html
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
I am comfortable with an iron. Did you replace the cable only? Can a PS2 cable be soldered to the pcb directly...?
Relevant information here: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/btc-5100c-t15094.html
Fully sick. I guess i should reg on DT too!
I will do this and wire up my own PS2 cable to it. Absolutely killer man, ordering one of the 6 pin weirdos right now :)
So i guess two of those 6 pins go nowhere?
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
I am comfortable with an iron. Did you replace the cable only? Can a PS2 cable be soldered to the pcb directly...?
Relevant information here: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/btc-5100c-t15094.html
Fully sick. I guess i should reg on DT too!
I will do this and wire up my own PS2 cable to it. Absolutely killer man, ordering one of the 6 pin weirdos right now :)
So i guess two of those 6 pins go nowhere?
I think the AT protocol only uses 4 pins and a reset line, which was not used. It became an issue with certain XT/AT converters that didn't have the reset line wired up for "almost XT" keyboards that used it.
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Would an AT to PS2 be sufficient for using this? I am very curious to try it now. The buttons surely aren't electrostatic like Topre, are they? The ebay ones with the AT connectors claim they aren't normal AT....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BTC-5100C-Mini-Keyboard-w-UNKNOWN-6-Pin-DIN-CONNECTOR-POS-/232173476598?hash=item360e9e1af6:g:Ud8AAOSwJ7RYUD-Q
I have one of those, and I can confirm that they don't work without desoldering an internal component.
I am comfortable with an iron. Did you replace the cable only? Can a PS2 cable be soldered to the pcb directly...?
Relevant information here: https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/btc-5100c-t15094.html
Fully sick. I guess i should reg on DT too!
I will do this and wire up my own PS2 cable to it. Absolutely killer man, ordering one of the 6 pin weirdos right now :)
So i guess two of those 6 pins go nowhere?
I think the AT protocol only uses 4 pins and a reset line, which was not used. It became an issue with certain XT/AT converters that didn't have the reset line wired up for "almost XT" keyboards that used it.
Cool! I'm about to order my BTC board then. Excited for it.
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Hello,
teribly sorry to revive a dead topic, but i have a question on the BTC 5100C.
I have been using one as my daily driver for a long time now, and i really got a liking for the layout. I also recently got a hold of loads of Cherry MX Red switches.
how feasible would it be to convert this thing to a mech. would i need to make a custom plate and everything?
thanks for any replies!
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Hello,
teribly sorry to revive a dead topic, but i have a question on the BTC 5100C.
I have been using one as my daily driver for a long time now, and i really got a liking for the layout. I also recently got a hold of loads of Cherry MX Red switches.
how feasible would it be to convert this thing to a mech. would i need to make a custom plate and everything?
thanks for any replies!
it's not worth the effort to convert it into a modern board
you'd need to make a new PCB and plate, which is a ton of work
and to get singles done, it's generally sort of expensive
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Hello,
teribly sorry to revive a dead topic, but i have a question on the BTC 5100C.
I have been using one as my daily driver for a long time now, and i really got a liking for the layout. I also recently got a hold of loads of Cherry MX Red switches.
how feasible would it be to convert this thing to a mech. would i need to make a custom plate and everything?
thanks for any replies!
it's not worth the effort to convert it into a modern board
you'd need to make a new PCB and plate, which is a ton of work
and to get singles done, it's generally sort of expensive
thanks for the reply! what about using a matrix and a microcontroller? in theory i would only need to make a good plate for the switches to hold on to, and think of a way to mount that plate onto the old frame.
i have access to a CNC milling machine, so maybe something on there? i also have access to a CNC plasma cutter, tough that isn't nearly as precise.
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Can anyone say if these switches feel closer to a 55g topre or 45g?
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Can anyone say if these switches feel closer to a 55g topre or 45g?
More like 55 g, although they're considerably more tactile than either actually.
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Correction: space is (quite visibly) 5 units. Additionally, the PCB date is week 48, 1997.
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Anyone know if the 5100C's sliders will fit a topre board's chasis and on top of the domes properly?
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I might get one of these for the hell of it
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It's also weird that there are 2 unused contacts on either side of shift dome. Not sure what those were for as this is the only layout I've seen on this board.
I have an azerty layout btc 5100c EC that has a split left shift.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZPs8S66.jpg)
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Mine seems to become more tactile after some uses(NIB), I like it better now. Felt mushy when it was new.