Author Topic: USB-C - the new EU standard ?  (Read 15554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 6462
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« on: Fri, 07 October 2022, 15:56:19 »
Everybody wants fewer cables and chargers, and so does the environment.

I can say that personally, I appreciate that my current desktop computer (2020) uses the same power cable that every desktop that I have had since the 1980s has used - although I have a basket full of them now, possibly dozens of them, gathering dust.

Did the EU get it right by choosing USB-C?
And will the idiosyncrasies in its implementation (direct and indirect) sabotage many of the possible positive outcomes?

https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/eu-rules-what-makes-the-usb-c-port-the-gold-standard-of-charging-ports-122100600105_1.html
« Last Edit: Fri, 07 October 2022, 17:33:27 by fohat.digs »
State Freedom Caucus News 2024
Missouri state Senator Nick Schroer sponsors a bill that would allow senators to duel one another — in the Senate chambers! – legally.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4513
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 07 October 2022, 22:43:28 »
Heard more than a few Apple fans complain.. "We have to replace all of our cables now!"

My thoughts,
And? You were going to have to replace them again soon anyhow given how fragile the Lightning cables are, at least now you can get a cheap cable that will last 5x longer.


Apple sells cables like HP does printer ink.
You buy the printer, it runs out of ink, you buy ink, plus extra ink. Then the printer dies but you have more money in spare ink than you have invested in the printer so you buy the same printer again. I cannot tell you how many HP printer owners I see who do this, between ink, familiarity and the software "I don't want to have to reinstall everything again!", they just keep buying the same garbage.

It's the sunk cost fallacy and both HP and Apple know it very well.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13551
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 08 October 2022, 09:50:21 »
yup, same with joystick drift,   they knew the whole time,  support the Kong controllers.

Offline suicidal_orange

  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4771
  • Location: England
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 09 October 2022, 02:56:49 »
Surely a standard has to be semi permanent to have a significant impact, USB micro had what, 5 years?
* suicidal_orange checks
10 years.  Ok that's not so bad.
Even ignoring the dodgy implementation options you have to wonder if it will it be illegal to bundle a cable with everything?  If not all the big manufacturers still will (reviews complain the "bundle" is lacking if they don't) and it will make no difference environmentally speaking.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13551
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 09 October 2022, 09:46:08 »
do we actually get more insertion on usbc or is that theoretical only

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4513
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 09 October 2022, 13:32:08 »
do we actually get more insertion on usbc or is that theoretical only
I searched and couldn't find a rating from Apple, C should be at the very least equally as long lived.


Doesn't actually matter?
Even if the Lightning cable has a similar insertion rate, Type C is at least as long lived at a fraction of the price, available everywhere, and you can get cables that will last MUCH longer.

Lightning's well past it's prime (USB 2.0 speeds and power), it's proprietary, highly prone to failure (at the cable connection and the connector itself) and because it requires an Apple chip inside, it's expensive by comparison.
It should have been retired the same year Apple went all Type-C on their laptops.


Which brings up another important point, since when are Apple people suddenly concerned about Apple changing standards? I think most of the hate is less about changing away from Lightning and more to do with Apple people no longer being special.
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 October 2022, 13:34:56 by Leslieann »
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 644
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 10 October 2022, 09:47:34 »
Knowing Apple, their retort to this will be no charging port and wireless/MagSafe charging only so they don't have to give into the EU.  I'm with LA on Apple should have changed the standard back in 2015/16 when the MacBooks went to TB 3/Type C format for charging (and have remained at that standard).  I despise the lightning connector, as having to remove a broken one from a port since the cable end failed - not fun, but the iPad Air it broke-off into still works and the internal port was good.

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4513
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 10 October 2022, 13:03:43 »
Knowing Apple, their retort to this will be no charging port and wireless/MagSafe charging only so they don't have to give into the EU.
Exactly what I expect to happen.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline Darthbaggins

  • Posts: 644
  • Location: Acworth, GA
  • PC Cannibal
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 12 October 2022, 11:21:39 »
Knowing Apple, their retort to this will be no charging port and wireless/MagSafe charging only so they don't have to give into the EU.
Exactly what I expect to happen.

We all know they have been teasing a port-less device, just never had said when they would launch it - I was expecting it to be the iPhone 14, but guessing just not yet and the EU's push will move this ahead faster now

 bkrownd:"Those damned rubber chiclet keys are the devil's nipples."   >:D



Offline Telstar

  • Posts: 133
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 17 October 2022, 15:31:06 »
Heard more than a few Apple fans complain.. "We have to replace all of our cables now!"
And? You were going to have to replace them again soon anyhow given how fragile the Lightning cables are, at least now you can get a cheap cable that will last 5x longer.

Non-apple braided cables are cheap and awesome. I will have to replace two of them, 20 bucks, but I'm still happy with the idea of a universal standard for charging devices (not just phones).
Micro USB was awful. Lightning was ok but usbc is too.

Offline SBJ

  • Posts: 1191
  • Location: Denmark / The city.
  • Tactile pls
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 17 October 2022, 15:59:49 »
Knowing Apple, their retort to this will be no charging port and wireless/MagSafe charging only so they don't have to give into the EU.
Exactly what I expect to happen.

We all know they have been teasing a port-less device, just never had said when they would launch it - I was expecting it to be the iPhone 14, but guessing just not yet and the EU's push will move this ahead faster now
Been wireless charing myself since december I think. It's okay, and I guess it is less wear and tear on the port.

Offline Leslieann

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4513
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 17 October 2022, 21:02:27 »
Yep, probably 3 years in my case (3 years home, 1 in my car).
Love it.

Get a dock, not just a pad/puck.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline thocciness

  • Posts: 28
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 17 November 2022, 10:46:44 »
I wonder if this will allow new ports to develop in the future when something faster/more powerful comes in

Offline TacticalCoder

  • Posts: 526
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 19 December 2022, 13:58:20 »
The big problem with USB-C is that it's not a standard but countless standards with the same form factor.  You can have different cables with different things supported and now even hubs with seemingly identical USB-C ports but which are different in functionality (for example the one for receiving the charger cable is different than the others).

So: physically the exact same cables *and* ports but all with different functionalities.  You now need to pay attention to which cable you plug where: it all fits but that's about it. That's not exactly great.

Then there are gotchas with the pass-trough too: say you hook two stuff with a USB-C cable and get very fast tx speed, that's great.  But then you plug the USB-C cable to your monitor's USB-C port and then an external SSD to your monitor's USB hub and, boom, performance degraded to 2.0 speed or something as if the 2000s called.

But I do like it's form-factor and you can plug it upside down so that's convenient.

And the coming specs are insanely fast: USB4 gen 3x2 does 40 Gbps and has a data transfer mode.

So mixed feelings: amazing form factor, potentially great speeds coming but soooo many gotchas with the cables / ports / version of the standard/protocol supported.
HHKB Pro JP (daily driver) -- HHKB Pro 2 -- Industrial IBM Model M 1395240-- NIB Cherry MX 5000 - IBM Model M 1391412 (Swiss QWERTZ) -- IBM Model M 1391403 (German QWERTZ) * 2 -- IBM Model M Ambra -- Black IBM Model M M13 -- IBM Model M 1391401 -- IBM Model M 139? ? ? *2 -- Dell AT102W -- Ergo (split) SmartBoard (white ALPS apparently)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13551
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: USB-C - the new EU standard ?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 19 December 2022, 17:41:30 »
the great speed is only with an insanely thick cable + expensive, or a super short one, so yea it's cool, but still somewhat limited.