[GB] F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! Kishsaver+Industrial Model F

[hashbaz]

Sure here's the update:  9/1/16 update - we are in production:  As a general update the barrels, flippers, capacitive PCBs, xwhatsit controller PCBs, case molds, and ribbon cables finished production and I need to get the die cast zinc cases themselves, the ultra compact cases, the key molds and keys themselves, and the inner assembly plates made. 

Do you have any of the finished components on hand yet, or are they still waiting to be shipped?

As mentioned before the two threads for the most part have different content, unless the update is extra important.  By mistake I posted the GB update in the IC thread (corrected now).

This is exactly what makes this buy so confusing. There are tons of options that were made available after the initial order period, but are described across two large threads. The status of the buy and all the options are not listed anywhere. You yourself ****ed up which thread you were supposed to post in. It's a mess.

The GB thread will continue to focus on production updates and questions related to placing and modifying orders, including order options, logistics, and customizations like the limited edition True Red case color that was recently approved for production.

Can we please get a clear listing in the OP that says the status of each piece of this project. Also what can and can't still be ordered. For example:

SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING THIS BUY INCLUDES
* Basic keyboard models
* One-piece keycaps
* Compact case
* Extra innards
* other things?

NOT YET STARTED PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* Key molds
* Inner assembly plates

Current plan is for these to enter production on DATE and be finished around DATE.

IN PRODUCTION
* Regular size cases

Current plan is for these to be finished and shipped to me by DATE.

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* barrels, flippers, etc
* PCBs
* controlers

SHIPPED TO ME
* Nothing?

ORDERS LOCKED
* Anything?

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Single-piece keycaps
* Flippers
* Other innards
* etc.

Orders for these will close on DATE

[nathanrosspowell]

Can we just lock the IC already, with the last post in it pointing to the GB? It's totally ridiculous.

[Ellipse]

ok, the OP has been updated hashbaz!  Nothing has been shipped to me besides the samples/prototypes for approval.  Everything will ship out after production/assembly finishes.  Here is the OP update below as well:

SUMMARY OF EVERYTHING THIS BUY INCLUDES
* Basic keyboard models:  F62, F77, Ultra Compact F62, Ultra Compact F77
* One-piece XT-style keycaps made from new molds, including Industrial SSK style blue keys - extra sets are also available separately
* Extra parts also available separately including Model F (AT) compatible barrels, flippers, cases, PCBs, inner foam, and inner assemblies
* Available layouts:  ANSI:  US and HHKB style with split backspace and regular non-split backspace.  ISO:  Vertical enter with a variety of international layout variants:  Spanish, German, Nordic, French, UK, etc.

NOT YET STARTED PRODUCTION
* Ultra compact cases
* Key molds / keys / buckling springs
* Inner assembly plates
* Die cast zinc cases
* Boxes / inner foam / outside foam packaging

Current plan is for these to enter production by mid-September and be finished by end of November.

IN PRODUCTION
* Waiting for my approval on the die cast cases, then they will start production.  Colors and powdercoating texture were rejected by me as being below my standards.  Factory will be re-sending samples in the next week or so hopefully.

FINISHED PRODUCTION
* barrels
* flippers
* capacitive PCBs
* compact xwhatsit controllers
* case molds
* ribbon cables (to connect controllers to capacitive PCBs)

SHIPPED TO ME
* Current plan is for everything to be finished and shipped to me by the end of November.

ORDERS LOCKED
* Cases and other parts have been ordered, so please no major changes!

STILL CAN BE ORDERED
* Everything.  I have ordered extra keyboards and parts for the early bird round, which will be ongoing while supplies last.  Then there will be a final round for about a month after the early bird keyboards are delivered.

[Jedi]

Thank you Ellipse for always keeping the GB thread informed with pictures and progress updates.  I can only imaging with over 300 keyboards on order where and how all this will be sorted.  Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.  There are 10 pages with nearly a OP update to every three comments.  The updates summarized above are the same updates that can be found in the thread.  Also, OP is only running one group buy (this one) so if this was so ****ed up, I for one am confused.

I feel confident that you will check as much of the received order as humanly possible and that all boards when shipped will be packed well and sent to all 300 doors when this is ready.  I am anxiously awaiting but I also understand that a undertaking such as this was nothing short of a once in a lifetime shot. 

If this was another cherry mx clone board, I'd have been a bit upset.  I mean, please advise where another buckling spring keyboard group buy was run here on Geekhack?  Or would we prefer this have been run on Massdrop???

Keep up the good work with well informed updates as have been provided.

[hashbaz]

Thanks for responding Ellipse. If you could keep the OP updated as things change, that would be lovely.

Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.

I'm not concerned about the buy finishing, I just wanted a summary of the current status of everything. Ellipse has posted regular updates, which is great, but they are scattered across two threads and it's impossible to get a full picture of where we're at without reading both. I'm just asking for typical, simple group buy organization stuff.

[romevi]

Thanks for responding Ellipse. If you could keep the OP updated as things change, that would be lovely.

Not really sure where all the concerns are coming from.

I'm not concerned about the buy finishing, I just wanted a summary of the current status of everything. Ellipse has posted regular updates, which is great, but they are scattered across two threads and it's impossible to get a full picture of where we're at without reading both. I'm just asking for typical, simple group buy organization stuff.

Yeah, I stopped following the progress because I couldn't tell which to follow and wanted to know the latest without preening through pages of two separate threads.
I still don't know why the IC thread is open if the GB has gone underway; seems redundant.

[Ellipse]

Dye sublimation update and request for help:

I am beginning to review the dye sublimation samples (just photos for now, physical samples to follow in the coming weeks). 

It is my understanding that a lot of the dye sublimation today on key caps may be done with some kind of 3D vacuum heat press with sublimation paper or sublimation film printed with inkjet printers and sublimation ink modded for these printers, as opposed to using a metal jig/holder firmly pressing the paper to the keys on an old style heat press.  This may be why the legends are blurrier and less black on today's keys (also could be lower quality sublimation ink/paper/film or not letting the ink sublimate long enough).  I am going to try for laser or offset printed legends on the sublimation paper/film if possible - could be what IBM did for their legends. 

I want to get the dye sublimation right - if anyone has any advice or experience in this area please let me know. 

Other than that, the factory is still reformulating the powdercoating paint to match the texture and colors more closely to the original IBM metal keyboards.  The powdercoating texture of the samples was very professional and looked nice, but the match could be improved.

Below is the factory's first attempt for the legend quality - the placement is of course not correct.  The left legend is IBM or Lexmark-printed and the right is their attempt.  So far the legend quality to me looks much better than IBM/Lexmark's 1990s output, but possibly not up to the XT standards (when I see the sample caps in person in the coming weeks I will be able to better evaluate the dye sublimation quality).

[Ellipse]

The factory told me that they have finished the die casting for the zinc cases!  Now they need to do the final CNC machining operations on those die cast cases, and then do the powdercoating.  I still need to receive the powdercoating samples.  I rejected the last powdercoating prototypes and they are starting from scratch - reformulating everything to get it right - color and texture.

[Ir0n]

The factory told me that they have finished the die casting for the zinc cases!  Now they need to do the final CNC machining operations on those die cast cases, and then do the powdercoating.  I still need to receive the powdercoating samples.  I rejected the last powdercoating prototypes and they are starting from scratch - reformulating everything to get it right - color and texture.

Did you have to redo all the colors?
And are we going to see these shipped with in the next 2 months?

[Ellipse]

Ir0n yes the factory had to redo the paints - some colors were off and the texture was off for all colors (they need to reformulate the paint from scratch to fix the texture).  Because of the factory delays we are looking at these shipping from China in December.  It took months longer than expected for these case molds and powdercoating work.  I don't expect us to be done before the holidays at this point.

[MaNiFeX]

don't expect us to be done before the holidays at this point.

Considering all the engineering that went into this, the 'from scratch' production of each part, and the accuracy of reproducing the feel of the original, this will all be worth the wait.  Great job Ellipse!

[axtran]

Cool to see the progress, this is a huge, large-scale tooling effort combined with production.

[Ellipse]

Look at these nice powdercoated texture samples!  The factory has finally done a good job with the samples.  The industrial gray and silver gray textures could be improved a little.  Of course I will get the actual samples soon for final approval.

They photographed each sample on top of an original IBM F 107 powdercoated case from August 1988 for comparison (I had sent them the case for them to match).

[axtran]

Nice!


Sent from my iPhone

[Ellipse]

The samples shipped by DHL Express!  I expect for them to arrive by early next week.  A major improvement over the more glossy earlier samples.

[ApocalypseMaow]

Lord have mercy those colors!!!

Godspeed Ellipse!!!

[Ellipse]

The factory now expects to start the key mold production and the production of the remaining parts the week of 10/10, after their holiday next week. 

Some interesting data points about US manufacturing:  I also looked into the possibility of US manufacturing, at least for the compact cases.  A quote from a well known US-based firm was more than five times the cost of the project's current supplier in China.  A PCB manufacturing quotation I got for the xwhatsit controllers a couple years ago was about ten times as costly if I recall correctly.  And given the great quality control and tolerances that the Chinese supplier has adhered to so far, it's tough to imagine the parts could be improved any further for this project.

[Elrick]

A quote from a well known US-based firm was more than five times the cost of the project's current supplier in China.  A PCB manufacturing quotation I got for the xwhatsit controllers a couple years ago was about ten times as costly if I recall correctly.  And given the great quality control and tolerances that the Chinese supplier has adhered to so far, it's tough to imagine the parts could be improved any further for this project.

It's the same with nearly every manufactured part for any product.  Far cheaper to get it done in China, rather than doing it at home.

Shame that we can no longer compete in anything except when it comes to debt and corrupt regimes  .

[hashbaz]

Really regretting not getting that amazing red.

Look at these nice powdercoated texture samples!  The factory has finally done a good job with the samples.  The industrial gray and silver gray textures could be improved a little.  Of course I will get the actual samples soon for final approval.

They photographed each sample on top of an original IBM F 107 powdercoated case from August 1988 for comparison (I had sent them the case for them to match).

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Looks phenomenal! Really regretting not ordering the red powdercoating. 

[Ellipse]

hashbaz I ordered extra red cases - if anyone wants to upgrade to the true red case it is still possible for the early round.

[hashbaz]

hashbaz I ordered extra red cases - if anyone wants to upgrade to the true red case it is still possible for the early round.

What would the cost be for an extra red case? I ordered an F77.

[Ellipse]

red case upgrades are $75 extra.  Anyone interested can place an order for 75 units of the following store item and then choose free local pickup if they would like to upgrade.  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

The other custom color available is silver gray.  There is no charge for black, off-white/beige, and industrial gray.

Since the factory charges extra tooling costs by the color to clean and set up the powdercoating machines, I do not expect more red cases to be made during the final round.  You can order any remaining red cases during the final round, as I ordered extras for the early bird round.

[Ellipse]

I received the powdercoating samples today and they live up to IBM's quality and color. I have just approved all of these colors with the factory so they will start the powdercoating soon! Next week is a major holiday in China so they might start Monday 10/10.

[hashbaz]

red case upgrades are $75 extra.  Anyone interested can place an order for 75 units of the following store item and then choose free local pickup if they would like to upgrade.  http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/other-customizations-in-1-increments/

Just want to make sure I'm understanding -- the $75 is just for the powdercoating, right? So if I wanted a second red case, it would be $100 for the case and and $75 for the color?

[Ellipse]

Hashbaz - each true red case is effectively $175, whether you choose a quantity of 1 or 2. 

[hashbaz]

Got it. I meant an extra red case in addition to the one that comes with the assembled keyboard I ordered.

[Ellipse]

ok, so then you would order a spare case and add 75 units of the store item mentioned earlier.  I will cover the extra shipping charges so you can choose free local pickup.

[axtran]

What's the price of a smaller case add-on? (Or swap)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ellipse]

$100

You can order them here.  The bottom inner assembly plate is included (everything else is interchangeable):
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-f62-case-kishsaver/
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product/extra-f77-case/

[axtran]

Cool. Is there an option to just swap the original case for a lower profile one? If so, I think I'd like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ellipse]

Sorry, the only case options are the original case and ultra compact case.  There is no low profile case.  They are both about the same height.

[Ellipse]

We reached 300 keyboards!  Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

United States of America   198
CA   57
TX   12
MI   12
NY   8
WA   8
CO   6
NV   5
NC   5
IL   5
KY   5
VA   5
AZ   4
OH   4
GA   4
HI   4
KS   4
NJ   4
MD   4
MA   3
FL   3
UT   3
CT   3
PA   3
MN   3
MO   3
IN   2
TN   2
WI   2
OR   2
DE   1
SD   1
MS   1
ID   1
DC   1
GU   1
LA   1
NH   1
IA   1
NE   1
WV   1
AR   1
SC   1

United Kingdom   16
Hampshire   3
South Yorkshire   2
Surrey   2
Lancashire   1
EN   1
North Yorkshire   1
Cambridgeshire   1
berkshire   1
Warwickshire   1
(blank)   1
Aberdeenshire   1
Isle of Man   1

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1

Germany   9
Sweden   8
Netherlands   6

Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Korea, Republic of   5
Finland   4
Japan   4
Spain   3
France   3
Hong Kong   3
Italy   2
Ireland   2
Switzerland   2
Belgium   2
Malaysia   2
Poland   2
Viet Nam   1
Austria   1
New Zealand   1
South Africa   1
Indonesia   1
Croatia   1
Singapore   1
Denmark   1

Grand Total   300

[romevi]

What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

[Elrick]

Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1

Just pissed off that the morons in NSW and Victoria haven't jumped on this further  .  Plus they have the bulk of the population here in this Penal Settlement, hence what gives?

[fanpeople]

Here is a breakdown of the number of F62 and F77 keyboards ordered by location:

Australia   15
QLD   5
WA   4
VIC   3
NSW   2
ACT   1

Just pissed off that the morons in NSW and Victoria haven't jumped on this further  .  Plus they have the bulk of the population here in this Penal Settlement, hence what gives?

Quality over quantity, hense qld suppremacy.

[Quackles]

I've done my part for NSW, I wonder who the other person is!

[fanpeople]

I've done my part for NSW, I wonder who the other person is!

**** i actually hope thats not me i cant remember when i paid and if it was before i moved

[kekstee]

Rest of the world must be scared of shipping and customs. I could buy a decent keyboard on that budget.

[Fictiouz]

I need to order one so bad. Maybe at the end of my co-op if I have some extra cash lying around

[Elrick]

Rest of the world must be scared of shipping and customs. I could buy a decent keyboard on that budget.

But you'll never find another Ellipse Model-F keyboard again.  Unless some smart dude posts it on Fleabay in the future for $1000USD  .

[Fictiouz]

What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

I have the same thing happen. It's weird as hell.

[nathanrosspowell]

Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Woot! I'll have the only one in Quebec 

[cjhard]

KY   5

I'm not the only one! I wonder if any of the other 4 also work in the same building where the original was built? =)

[U47]

Canada   6
AB   3
ON   1
QC   1
BC   1

Woot! I'll have the only one in Quebec 

I've got two of the AB ones... WHO'S THE RIVAL WITH THE OTHER?

[axtran]

Sorry, the only case options are the original case and ultra compact case.  There is no low profile case.  They are both about the same height.

I meant the ultra compact case. Should I email you/PM you about switching from the original case or can you just make the adjustment?

[Phinnegan]

What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

I was surprised at first, but the combo of highest population and lots of disposable income probably does the trick.

[jeffbolton]

What's up with Cali? Almost all the stuff I sell goes there. And that's including stuff from different hobbies.

California's economy is one of the biggest in the world somewhere in the top 5 typically.  About the size of France.  That with a diverse population, a lot of stuff goes to CA.  What is interesting is that when CA regulates something it usually changes the whole country.  For example car emissions.

[Ellipse]

From those I've spoken with, two of the most frequent job types of the F62/F77 buyers are programmers and writers (both books and online).

[Meowsaur]

United Kingdom   16
(blank)   1

Which county got nuked off the face of the UK since ordering?

[atlas3686]

Oh yeah, only one on the African continent