Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 09:57:35
New Kitting below, please fill out the form again to provide new feedback for the new kits!
GMK Classic Black on White
Hey guys - Upas here from CannonKeys with a new set idea for you all.
(https://i.imgur.com/3EqmI6V.jpg)
>> PLEASE FILL OUT THIS FORM FOR FEEDBACK << (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhDHo6GglV9KE69nQhWzTRnls5ViofPsUv7T7H6gJR8lVdFQ/viewform?usp=sf_link)
GMK Classic Black on White is meant to capture a more classic look and feel for a black on white set. It features Text+Icon mods, R5 bottom row, and CR on WS1. (Note - I know CR on WS1 is not traditionally a classic colorway, as most classic boards are beige. That's fine, this is our classic take on Black on White)
The colors are the same as GMK Minimal (not GMK Bleached), but the set differs significantly. Its purpose isn’t to achieve a minimal look - but instead to harken back to classic Cherry boards in the G80 and G81 series line, in the BoW colorway. The R5 bottom row is taller than R4 and provides a different typing feel, and was originally included on many older WKL Cherry boards.
The goal here is to keep the base kit priced around $110 (price is based on comparison with more recent GMK quotes and also the more expensive R5 keys), with the numpad and spacebar kits being no more than $35. If we can’t hit those prices given GMK quotes, we’ll likely run a more traditional base kit that includes numpad with a higher price point.
When kitting, I kept in mind that GMK Minimal has already run with the same colors. I wanted to prioritize keys that are net-new to this set (Text + Icon mods). This means NordeUK probably won’t happen.
These kits are mostly finalized - I am open to more feedback that can change them, but we've gone through a round of iteration already. Only glaring errors and omissions will be fixed.
Here are the new kits:
The True Classic
(https://i.imgur.com/0sRncum.jpg)
This kit includes R5 and Text + Icon mods, making it the True Classic.
Featuring wide compatibility for many layouts, this fits most 60, 65, 75, TKL, 1800, and Fullsize boards. (And physical ISO)
This is aimed for enthusiasts who want wide compatibility in a single kit - the price target is $119.99
The Limited
(https://i.imgur.com/X9FhPHR.jpg)
This is a limited base kit, featuring compatibility for most 60, 65, 75, and TKL boards.
The set has R4 bottom row to keep the price down. Those just starting out in the hobby may find this more appealing.
The price target here is $99.99 or less
40s
(https://i.imgur.com/4RgjtnK.png)
The 40s kit is changed considerably from the last time, and now should include everything necessary for most 40 and ortho boards.
Legends are text + icon where possible, and features R4 bottom row, as feedback seemed to indicate 40s users don't like R5 that much!
This is meant to be paired with The Limited for a sub-$135 base + 40s pair. Price target is $33.99
Spacebar
(https://i.imgur.com/w8KKQfc.png)
A spacebar kit is available with 2x 3U space keys, as well as Alice compatibility/Split space compatibility.
This can be paired with either the True Classic or Limited Kit. Price target is $19.99
Target prices are subject to change. These prices use aggressive MOQs, but we think we can hit them given community interest. CannonKeys will likely buy a good share of extras as well to help achieve these prices.
More Board Renders
More
DevastatingTKL:
(https://i.imgur.com/GXVQQz0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WvjMnc3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2Hg9qCO.jpg)
Satisfaction75:
(https://i.imgur.com/nJ6gdSE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LyvUoYH.jpg)
Chimera65:
(https://i.imgur.com/XcLvgOY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZHsDWWv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7TDioZ8.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GXVQQz0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/WvjMnc3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2Hg9qCO.jpg)
Satisfaction75:
(https://i.imgur.com/nJ6gdSE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LyvUoYH.jpg)
Chimera65:
(https://i.imgur.com/XcLvgOY.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZHsDWWv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7TDioZ8.png)
There is no ETA for this set atm, as we want to gather feedback, get some prices, and improve kitting before locking in a solid date, but it will run on CannonKeys.
Much thanks to:
Lightning for providing context on R5 bottom row
Abec13 for board renders
sGhost for kit renders
40s Discord for your helpful keyset design pins
>> PLEASE FILL OUT THIS FORM FOR FEEDBACK << (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdhDHo6GglV9KE69nQhWzTRnls5ViofPsUv7T7H6gJR8lVdFQ/viewform?usp=sf_link)
Old Kits for Reference
More
Base
(https://i.imgur.com/A02SBot.jpg)
Fits most 60, 65, 75, TKL boards.
Numpad
(https://i.imgur.com/trERjnC.png)
The keys you’ll need to build a Fullsize or 1800 board
Extension
(https://i.imgur.com/qXfgDlx.png)
F13, Extra Shift Keys, Extra R5 1U Keys, HHKB keys, Physical ISO, R3/R4 PgUp PgDn, Classic Windows 95 keys (Not 100% sure on these ones)
Spacebar
(https://i.imgur.com/xwLHKWH.png)
A spacebar kit is available with 2x 3U space keys, as well as Alice compatibility/Split space compatibility.
40s
(https://i.imgur.com/HlW9cOS.png)
I tried my best on the 40s kit, but realize it may be lacking. I would appreciate extra feedback in this area.
(https://i.imgur.com/A02SBot.jpg)
Fits most 60, 65, 75, TKL boards.
Numpad
(https://i.imgur.com/trERjnC.png)
The keys you’ll need to build a Fullsize or 1800 board
Extension
(https://i.imgur.com/qXfgDlx.png)
F13, Extra Shift Keys, Extra R5 1U Keys, HHKB keys, Physical ISO, R3/R4 PgUp PgDn, Classic Windows 95 keys (Not 100% sure on these ones)
Spacebar
(https://i.imgur.com/xwLHKWH.png)
A spacebar kit is available with 2x 3U space keys, as well as Alice compatibility/Split space compatibility.
40s
(https://i.imgur.com/HlW9cOS.png)
I tried my best on the 40s kit, but realize it may be lacking. I would appreciate extra feedback in this area.
Post by: Agilr on Mon, 12 April 2021, 09:58:44
Okay
Edit: Just realised it's R5
Post by: of_sam on Mon, 12 April 2021, 09:59:26
Post by: Qarmaa on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:00:10
Post by: kk73715 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:03:15
Post by: Bunn3y on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:04:08
Post by: qats on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:04:13
Post by: P103 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:05:12
Post by: rikercd on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:06:46
Post by: Zeelobby on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:06:53
Post by: ThePanduuh on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:09:32
Post by: 7empest on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:11:47
Post by: sup3r170va on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:12:48
In any case I’m in :)
Post by: ttom on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:17:45
Nice
Okay
Edit: Just realised it's R5
L
Post by: war40ck on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:17:49
Post by: whirlwind on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:17:56
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:19:45
This is great. I would like to see base kit match WOB, as that’s what makes it so nice for the price. A classic set, that fits on many sizes of boards, for $110. It’s marvelous.
It would be difficult to do that and also have R5, I think.
We'll price it out both ways and see. Definitely want to deliver value here.
Post by: fatalruin on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:30:01
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:31:12
Will this run only on Cannon Keys?
No, we will add other vendors but we want to iterate on kitting before looping in other vendors.
Post by: iinko_mk on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:31:23
Post by: Chippy on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:31:47
Post by: productkun on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:33:24
Separate Modifiers would have been nice for people with Minimal tho.
Post by: iinko_mk on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:33:37
Personally, I would rather have the numpad in the base kit with a R4 bottom row, and make the R5 bottom row an extra kit for those who actually like it. It would add more compatibility to the base kit while keeping the price fairly low. This would be an insta-buy for me in this configuration.
agreed! This is a good idea
Post by: ThePanduuh on Mon, 12 April 2021, 10:43:16
Personally, I would rather have the numpad in the base kit with a R4 bottom row, and make the R5 bottom row an extra kit for those who actually like it. It would add more compatibility to the base kit while keeping the price fairly low. This would be an insta-buy for me in this configuration.
This was what I was thinking. R5 has seen a resurgence in popularity, and yes this set wouldn’t really be complete without it given the classic theme, but a dedicated R5 kit would allow owners of other WS1 based sets to be able to purchase just the bottom row without getting the whole base.
Post by: soloplayer on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:07:25
btw i suggest that you move F13 to base kit
and ne R0 avail?
Post by: gilbert on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:24:52
Post by: Visionaire on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:27:05
Post by: OtherAndrew on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:32:10
how about more classic legends ("Page Down," "Num Lock," etc.)?
Post by: Bub on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:40:51
ISO in the extension kit monkaS
I agree if it fits the pricing restrictions that the extension kit should be reconsidered. From my understanding ALT GR legend compatibility, as well as HHKB legend compatibility, isn't that important to users of those boards. However, terminal ISO is used pretty often. I don't think the windows key in the kit adds a lot of value, and 2u shift most likely could be removed altogether.
Just my 2 cents! As someone who will never use ISO, i don't mind paying ~$5 more for a base kit for those in the community that do.
Post by: G14D on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:45:18
Post by: KingXF on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:45:55
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:46:00
i dig it
how about more classic legends ("Page Down," "Num Lock," etc.)?
yes, thank you for this feedback!
This was a miss on our end.
PgUp and PgDn will stay as most G80-3000 photos have those legends.
Num Lock will be revised to Num Lock from just Num
Post by: rokon07 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 11:55:04
Post by: darkcl on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:06:40
Post by: hali on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:20:33
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:21:58
meh, num lock legend is just num and numpad enter has an icon? doesnt feel especially authentic
Num Lock legend will be updated to Num Lock
We went back and forth on Numpad Enter. We do want to offer something different, but the "Enter" on numpad would be more classic.
Had to make a call here - maybe it was the wrong one.
Post by: mr_fro2000 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:24:39
Post by: Kokaloo on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:26:03
With a 40's kit small like that, I feel it makes sense to do the 3 for physical compat in base, and leave the bars to the bar kit.
icon+text is nice tho!! glad there's a modern bow set being ran with them
Post by: Zeelobby on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:30:24
Ah yes, just another BoW set that's supposedly "different from the others." Nice try and all but it just does not appeal to me due to the lack of effort.Lulwut? It's BoW with icon + text mods. It's a classic (hence the name). But hasn't been ran since Stormtrooper I think. I'd much prefer buying at GB then finding that impossibly hard to find set...
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:30:33
I sure do love $40 child kits that struggle to meet moq
With a 40's kit small like that, I feel it makes sense to do the 3 for physical compat in base, and leave the bars to the bar kit.
icon+text is nice tho!! glad there's a modern bow set being ran with them
If the tradeoff is $110 base. + $35-$40 for the keys you need, you can fill your selected keyboard for $145-$150.
If the base kit is $135, unless the base kit exactly matches what you need, you still have to pay $35-$40 for you extra keys.
On a set like this, where I think there is broad appeal and those child kits can hit MOQ, I think people can fill the board they want for cheaper than traditional kitting.
The base kit should fulfill most needs as well (60,65,75,TKL), and those people end up paying less as well.
Post by: Zeelobby on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:31:08
Im pretty sure if it was someone else running IC on this set other than cannonkeys; they would get roasted.Why? BoW with icon+text hasn't ran in forever. It's about time.
Post by: Afresh on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:33:54
Post by: Kokaloo on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:39:23
I sure do love $40 child kits that struggle to meet moq
With a 40's kit small like that, I feel it makes sense to do the 3 for physical compat in base, and leave the bars to the bar kit.
icon+text is nice tho!! glad there's a modern bow set being ran with them
If the tradeoff is $110 base. + $35-$40 for the keys you need, you can fill your selected keyboard for $145-$150.
If the base kit is $135, unless the base kit exactly matches what you need, you still have to pay $35-$40 for you extra keys.
On a set like this, where I think there is broad appeal and those child kits can hit MOQ, I think people can fill the board they want for cheaper than traditional kitting.
The base kit should fulfill most needs as well (60,65,75,TKL), and those people end up paying less as well.
Alternatively, with a set that is as broadly appealing as bow you would want as much compatibility in the base kit as possible to give people a complete package for something that should be considered a staple in everyone's collection.
To get this as appealing as possible I would like to buy a base and know I can have a futureproofed BoW kit to use on many boards for the next several years, rather than beating myself up for not buying two child kits to cover a few keys.
The extensions kit is four keys extra from being an EU-ISO kit. I don't think it's unreasonable to put your foot down and say that you won't include extra different row pgup/pgdn keys for the sake of a better base kit.
Post by: upas on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:47:41
I sure do love $40 child kits that struggle to meet moq
With a 40's kit small like that, I feel it makes sense to do the 3 for physical compat in base, and leave the bars to the bar kit.
icon+text is nice tho!! glad there's a modern bow set being ran with them
If the tradeoff is $110 base. + $35-$40 for the keys you need, you can fill your selected keyboard for $145-$150.
If the base kit is $135, unless the base kit exactly matches what you need, you still have to pay $35-$40 for you extra keys.
On a set like this, where I think there is broad appeal and those child kits can hit MOQ, I think people can fill the board they want for cheaper than traditional kitting.
The base kit should fulfill most needs as well (60,65,75,TKL), and those people end up paying less as well.
Alternatively, with a set that is as broadly appealing as bow you would want as much compatibility in the base kit as possible to give people a complete package for something that should be considered a staple in everyone's collection.
To get this as appealing as possible I would like to buy a base and know I can have a futureproofed BoW kit to use on many boards for the next several years, rather than beating myself up for not buying two child kits to cover a few keys.
The extensions kit is four keys extra from being an EU-ISO kit. I don't think it's unreasonable to put your foot down and say that you won't include extra different row pgup/pgdn keys for the sake of a better base kit.
By my count extensions kit is 11 keys more than EU-ISO? There are the 4 ISO and 1 Alt Gr key. The rest aren't involved.
But anyways - I guess the difference is - the child kits here are more enthusiast focused imo. For many newcomers to the hobby, an extra $20 could absolutely make a difference. The base kit here will fit most 60, 65, 75, and TKL boards.
You need space for alice, extensions for ISO and more niche layouts (660, 60% with arrows, F13), 40s for 40, Numpad for fullsize.
Pricing is also very provisional. I'd love to drive the price down here, but I'd rather be conservative with my estimates until I know for sure what is possible.
Post by: Bub on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:49:11
Alternatively, with a set that is as broadly appealing as bow you would want as much compatibility in the base kit as possible to give people a complete package for something that should be considered a staple in everyone's collection.
To get this as appealing as possible I would like to buy a base and know I can have a futureproofed BoW kit to use on many boards for the next several years, rather than beating myself up for not buying two child kits to cover a few keys.
The extensions kit is four keys extra from being an EU-ISO kit. I don't think it's unreasonable to put your foot down and say that you won't include extra different row pgup/pgdn keys for the sake of a better base kit.
This is an interesting discussion. I tend to agree with Kokaloo, but I could think of exceptions to this. I.E. with Drop's WoB set which restocks a few times a year. I would think a smaller base kit would be nice knowing that in the future I could 100% get addon kits should I want them. However, if the idea here is a onetime run, I would tend to lean more toward a more inclusive base kit.
Post by: Kokaloo on Mon, 12 April 2021, 12:52:50
I sure do love $40 child kits that struggle to meet moq
With a 40's kit small like that, I feel it makes sense to do the 3 for physical compat in base, and leave the bars to the bar kit.
icon+text is nice tho!! glad there's a modern bow set being ran with them
If the tradeoff is $110 base. + $35-$40 for the keys you need, you can fill your selected keyboard for $145-$150.
If the base kit is $135, unless the base kit exactly matches what you need, you still have to pay $35-$40 for you extra keys.
On a set like this, where I think there is broad appeal and those child kits can hit MOQ, I think people can fill the board they want for cheaper than traditional kitting.
The base kit should fulfill most needs as well (60,65,75,TKL), and those people end up paying less as well.
Alternatively, with a set that is as broadly appealing as bow you would want as much compatibility in the base kit as possible to give people a complete package for something that should be considered a staple in everyone's collection.
To get this as appealing as possible I would like to buy a base and know I can have a futureproofed BoW kit to use on many boards for the next several years, rather than beating myself up for not buying two child kits to cover a few keys.
The extensions kit is four keys extra from being an EU-ISO kit. I don't think it's unreasonable to put your foot down and say that you won't include extra different row pgup/pgdn keys for the sake of a better base kit.
By my count extensions kit is 11 keys more than EU-ISO? There are the 4 ISO and 1 Alt Gr key. The rest aren't involved.
But anyways - I guess the difference is - the child kits here are more enthusiast focused imo. For many newcomers to the hobby, an extra $20 could absolutely make a difference. The base kit here will fit most 60, 65, 75, and TKL boards.
You need space for alice, extensions for ISO and more niche layouts (660, 60% with arrows, F13), 40s for 40, Numpad for fullsize.
Pricing is also very provisional. I'd love to drive the price down here, but I'd rather be conservative with my estimates until I know for sure what is possible.
It certainly is possible to reach the enthusiast and newcomer market in one base kit at a reasonable price. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set)
Post by: JKKEEBS on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:02:15
Post by: SE7EN_ate_NINE on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:06:05
Post by: AlfredK on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:07:32
Post by: Bub on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:16:07
It certainly is possible to reach the enthusiast and newcomer market in one base kit at a reasonable price. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set)
i WOULD love to know more about this arrangement between drop and GMK that allows for the pricing of drop's wob to be so low. i wonder if there is like an annual moq or something. additionally, it would be nice to see more popular sets ran in a similar fashion... bow is the first that comes to mind :)
Post by: Pylon on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:29:06
It certainly is possible to reach the enthusiast and newcomer market in one base kit at a reasonable price. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set)
i WOULD love to know more about this arrangement between drop and GMK that allows for the pricing of drop's wob to be so low. i wonder if there is like an annual moq or something. additionally, it would be nice to see more popular sets ran in a similar fashion... bow is the first that comes to mind :)
Taro R2 hit $110 base with a larger base kit than Drop GMK WoB (148 keys vs 140), with numpad, custom colors (4 colors total instead of 2), 2 sets of accent Esc and ANSI Enters, and ISO support in base. I don't think Drop's deal is that special.
Post by: Tyson on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:30:40
Post by: Kokaloo on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:34:45
It certainly is possible to reach the enthusiast and newcomer market in one base kit at a reasonable price. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set)
i WOULD love to know more about this arrangement between drop and GMK that allows for the pricing of drop's wob to be so low. i wonder if there is like an annual moq or something. additionally, it would be nice to see more popular sets ran in a similar fashion... bow is the first that comes to mind :)
Taro R2 hit $110 base with a larger base kit than Drop GMK WoB (148 keys vs 140), with numpad, custom colors (4 colors total instead of 2), 2 sets of accent Esc and ANSI Enters, and ISO support in base. I don't think Drop's deal is that special.
This. Keep in mind that MOQ plays only the first factor on the deciding MSRP vendors decide to publish. I highly doubt it's impossible to get a set made using stock colors with that base kit at 1000 moq for similar pricing, even for smaller vendors. For me it's a no brainer to expect simple sets to have this base kit, it's much more consumer friendly as a push for a "staple keyset" for both enthusiasts and newcomers.
Post by: unknownh on Mon, 12 April 2021, 13:59:42
Minimal clone, outstanding move, pog
It's white on black, what do you expect? Sure it shares the same colour of CR + WS1 but it has icon + text mods which sets it apart from Minimal. Mito's GMK Hennessy by your standard is also a minimal clone. If anything this is a GMK Barebones stormtrooper clone (came before minimal btw) with a slightly different base colour (CP vs WS1) and kitting.
Post by: UGunaLOSE on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:04:32
Either way, GLWIC
Post by: Zeelobby on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:09:15
Post by: antx1701 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:19:08
Post by: UGunaLOSE on Mon, 12 April 2021, 14:21:18
I mean is it fair to compare the price to that of GMK Stormtrooper which ran back in 2016? GMK prices have clearly gone up since then (just pricing of things in general).
Perhaps that is true. But then looking at a set like GMK WHITE-ON-BLACK KATAKANA that has ISO, numpad, alice support etc., which had an original GB price of $120 USD (before it's current price of 145 USD), does show that it is possible to have a larger base kit for a cheaper price. Just food for thought.
Post by: Amuaisi on Mon, 12 April 2021, 15:15:48
How much more expensive would it be to add regular bottom row 5 keys to the extension kit?
Post by: ephemeral25 on Mon, 12 April 2021, 15:19:12
ok.
Post by: gilbert on Mon, 12 April 2021, 15:23:52
Not a great look.
Post by: Prelim on Mon, 12 April 2021, 16:33:17
Enviado do meu Mi 9T através do Tapatalk
Post by: Zeelobby on Mon, 12 April 2021, 18:06:40
True. But like. Drop is buying thousands. MOQ has gotta be at a different level. Designers have said 15% price increases from just last year. And the pricing seems inconsistent if anything. I just think direct comparisons can be unrealistic. Plain BoW with R5 might simply not sell close to a moq necessary to get that price point. Especially since drop leaves things in GB for an extended period of time. I don't know. Just see pricing complaints a lot on every set, but no real concrete explanation of why. Just the demand to do better, gain leverage over GMK or something XD.I mean is it fair to compare the price to that of GMK Stormtrooper which ran back in 2016? GMK prices have clearly gone up since then (just pricing of things in general).
Perhaps that is true. But then looking at a set like GMK WHITE-ON-BLACK KATAKANA that has ISO, numpad, alice support etc., which had an original GB price of $120 USD (before it's current price of 145 USD), does show that it is possible to have a larger base kit for a cheaper price. Just food for thought.
Post by: hkhawk on Mon, 12 April 2021, 18:13:21
Post by: Altephor on Mon, 12 April 2021, 19:02:44
If my counting is correct base + numpad is 133 keys with 26 of them being r5. Red alert just ran with a more supportive 149 base kit with 26 r5 keys for $135 with a 500 MOQ.
Considering both sets are using stock GMK colors I don't see why this should be more expensive with less support.
Post by: IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES on Mon, 12 April 2021, 19:45:57
how about a Rama B and a W like minimal had X and O?
Pros:
-people like metal caps
-reverse profile the W is an M
-you can turn print scroll lock pause keys to "BBW" which would be funny
Cons:
-none
Post by: lush_bunny on Mon, 12 April 2021, 20:23:52
Post by: psxndc on Mon, 12 April 2021, 20:47:19
But you need a 1u R4 enter key. Unless “send” is supposed to fill that role.
Post by: 8six753o9 on Tue, 13 April 2021, 08:45:53
Post by: huey on Tue, 13 April 2021, 12:00:27
It's going to disappointing when the now not-so new-comer who bought this set buys their 3rd or 10th board, only to realise that their BoW set they want to use can't support their board, because it dared to be anything bigger than TKL. Meaning that they would have to search user markets and spend even more than the wild GB prices.
On the topic of new-comers; I don't believe it's the price of a GMK set that is really a deterrent for them purchasing. I whole-hearted believe it's now absurd wait times that this community has put upon itself because it has no self-control. Sure, some people will be priced out and that is a shame. But I can guarantee when they find out they'll be waiting a year or more(I understand this could become better), they will then decide it's not worth purchasing.
As for the ISO kitting. No ISO user wants to pay $140+ for that base and basic ISO. I'd rather have some correct legending than a preferred shaped enter key. Put it in base or remove it IMO.
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 13 April 2021, 14:03:22
Post by: Cubic // esc lab on Tue, 13 April 2021, 14:54:00
That said, the color temperature of your renders of the WS1 color is a bit varied. In some renders it looks like WS2 (cool white of Bleached), in some it looks gray (in particular the kitting illustrations), and in some renders it looks like WS1.
I think those inconsistencies could be fixed so it's less confusing for the viewer.
GLWIC, I'm in this for sure.
Post by: L4ll1g470r on Tue, 13 April 2021, 15:07:38
Post by: LaserCrafter on Tue, 13 April 2021, 15:15:17
Post by: CustomerSupport on Wed, 14 April 2021, 02:40:39
But anyways - I guess the difference is - the child kits here are more enthusiast focused imo.
As a Mac user who now favors Tsangan/7u bottom row and HHKB layouts, the Extensions kit is disappointing because I'm buying the entire kit for really 3 keys, +/- the Windows keys. I don't imagine Mac users who like having OS-accurate Super/(modifier) keys are that much of a niche, but it's just a hunch.
Anyways, I have to echo the concerns of others on the kitting. $110 is a nice price, yes, but GMK Seafarer (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=110169.0) is an example of great kitting that has both "enthusiast" and beginner support, in both legends and key sizes.
Keep in mind, CBoW here has 2 stock colors, meanwhile Seafarer has 1 stock, 1 custom color; yet for $15 more, you get ISO, numpad, 1.5u Super/1u Alt, F13, and a B++ in Base.
Post by: okidna on Wed, 14 April 2021, 03:35:09
Quote
The goal here is to keep the base kit priced around $110 (price is based on comparison with more recent GMK quotes and also the more expensive R5 keys)
I don't think the "R5 = more expensive" make sense at all, because just a couple days ago Red Alert, another R5 only keyset, (barely) managed to pull through GB period and the base kit price is just $135.
Only $25 more than this set projected price, with MUCH MORE compatibilities and options, oh and also a set of nice red accent keys.
Post by: chung on Wed, 14 April 2021, 06:19:41
Post by: break on Thu, 15 April 2021, 14:30:36
QuoteThe goal here is to keep the base kit priced around $110 (price is based on comparison with more recent GMK quotes and also the more expensive R5 keys)
I don't think the "R5 = more expensive" make sense at all, because just a couple days ago Red Alert, another R5 only keyset, (barely) managed to pull through GB period and the base kit price is just $135.
Only $25 more than this set projected price, with MUCH MORE compatibilities and options, oh and also a set of nice red accent keys.
It's funny to hear you cite Red Alert, because I've been killed by folks on the pricing and kitting for Red Alert.
As I've said before, consider two sets: Birch and Red Alert. The former has three custom RAL colors and R4, the latter uses three stock colors and R5. At the same 500 MOQ with the same number of keys, both sets GBed for $135 - the same price.
If you compare the base kit in CBoW to that of Minimal, the primary difference is R5. Colors are otherwise exactly the same, differences in modifier legend costs are negligible, kits are same within a few keys. So: the price difference is solely due to R5. It really, really matters.
For folks citing Drop's Katakana WoB, or GMK Seafarer - those sets do not have R5. The community has a blind spot to GMK's R5 pricing right now, and it reappears any time folks evaluate two GMK sets with different bottom rows.
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 15 April 2021, 14:52:32
don't overthink it
Post by: break on Thu, 15 April 2021, 15:02:04
gmk's pricing, as well as the margins businesses are willing to run on, tend to be different depending on the week, day, or month you ask about them. if you want the set, buy it, if you don't, don't buy it.
don't overthink it
Yeah seriously. Pick this up, provide constructive feedback, fight for GMK Minimal at extras / aftermarket price, go write posts on Drop forums about other sets that are not BoW. Whatever - find your zen!
End of the day, get it or not, the last time something like this was available was 2016 with GMK Stormtrooper (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82240.0). r/MechanicalKeyboards membership has increased over 900% since then (https://subredditstats.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards).
(https://imgur.com/yRnHX9B.png)
So it's pretty damn nice that this cornerstone set is available again after a bunch of new people have started collecting things.
Post by: Ensaum on Thu, 15 April 2021, 23:03:41
Post by: HappyB0T on Thu, 15 April 2021, 23:27:14
Curious if you considered the fancier keycaps that you see in beige sets like shine through.
Post by: adsfqwer on Fri, 16 April 2021, 12:01:44
Post by: jpg2401 on Sun, 18 April 2021, 18:21:15
QuoteThe goal here is to keep the base kit priced around $110 (price is based on comparison with more recent GMK quotes and also the more expensive R5 keys)
I don't think the "R5 = more expensive" make sense at all, because just a couple days ago Red Alert, another R5 only keyset, (barely) managed to pull through GB period and the base kit price is just $135.
Only $25 more than this set projected price, with MUCH MORE compatibilities and options, oh and also a set of nice red accent keys.
It's funny to hear you cite Red Alert, because I've been killed by folks on the pricing and kitting for Red Alert.
As I've said before, consider two sets: Birch and Red Alert. The former has three custom RAL colors and R4, the latter uses three stock colors and R5. At the same 500 MOQ with the same number of keys, both sets GBed for $135 - the same price.
If you compare the base kit in CBoW to that of Minimal, the primary difference is R5. Colors are otherwise exactly the same, differences in modifier legend costs are negligible, kits are same within a few keys. So: the price difference is solely due to R5. It really, really matters.
For folks citing Drop's Katakana WoB, or GMK Seafarer - those sets do not have R5. The community has a blind spot to GMK's R5 pricing right now, and it reappears any time folks evaluate two GMK sets with different bottom rows.
It is interesting to hear insight from someone who dealt with these things. Thank you!
Post by: upas on Tue, 20 April 2021, 22:32:52
I've gone through most of the feedback and I've revised the kitting.
I'm hoping my solution can make most people happy.
Once I have some new renders, I'll post them up!
Post by: HappyB0T on Thu, 22 April 2021, 04:20:04
Post by: tanghus on Thu, 22 April 2021, 11:45:22
Kitting looks betterOP hasn't been updated. It's still the old kitting being shown. :rolleyes:
Post by: gok_nz on Thu, 22 April 2021, 15:46:29
WS1 is a bit warm but WS2 is too cool and bright.
Post by: CustomerSupport on Thu, 22 April 2021, 21:19:31
Kitting looks betterOP hasn't been updated. It's still the old kitting being shown. :rolleyes:
Got eeeeem
Post by: L4ll1g470r on Fri, 23 April 2021, 00:20:22
Post by: stevenT on Fri, 23 April 2021, 18:52:05
The reasons I pick GMK is to avoid unmatching colors and warping issue, but even GMK has noticeable issues with misprinted legend, crooked stem and warping long keycaps recently.
Post by: break on Sat, 24 April 2021, 14:49:01
The reasons I pick GMK is to avoid unmatching colors and warping issue, but even GMK has noticeable issues with misprinted legend, crooked stem and warping long keycaps recently.
There are infinite sets of EPBT Black on White available at all sorts of vendors. You can grab one of those if they interest you.
Post by: stevenT on Sat, 24 April 2021, 19:11:56
The reasons I pick GMK is to avoid unmatching colors and warping issue, but even GMK has noticeable issues with misprinted legend, crooked stem and warping long keycaps recently.
There are infinite sets of EPBT Black on White available at all sorts of vendors. You can grab one of those if they interest you.
thank you
Post by: Pylon on Sat, 24 April 2021, 19:20:28
The reasons I pick GMK is to avoid unmatching colors and warping issue, but even GMK has noticeable issues with misprinted legend, crooked stem and warping long keycaps recently.
There are infinite sets of EPBT Black on White available at all sorts of vendors. You can grab one of those if they interest you.
thank you
None of them have text + icon legends though. That's pretty much the point of this set.
Post by: upas on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:10:45
Please check out the first post!
These are still subject to change, and I'd still like feedback, but the core kitting is pretty set.
Post by: MIGHTY CHICKEN on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:14:47
Post by: Kokaloo on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:18:39
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:44:19
Post by: psxndc on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:47:24
“Why not just stick TAB or ESC there anyway?” Well, if I have TAB above it and ESC above that, it looks weird (from the top: ESC, TAB, TAB, or ESC, TAB, ESC).
Thanks!
Post by: Baka Bot on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:50:31
Post by: Fraaaan on Tue, 18 May 2021, 16:52:30
Post by: Slayer77 on Tue, 18 May 2021, 18:29:06
Sent from my GM1911 using Tapatalk
Post by: hkhawk on Tue, 18 May 2021, 19:02:20
Post by: armintehgreat on Tue, 18 May 2021, 23:49:42
Post by: Sterenke on Wed, 19 May 2021, 03:44:32
Otherwise nice kitting.
Post by: UGunaLOSE on Wed, 19 May 2021, 07:18:53
Post by: fatalruin on Wed, 19 May 2021, 12:39:07
Post by: Bub on Wed, 19 May 2021, 12:43:45
Post by: XiXora on Wed, 19 May 2021, 13:30:43
Post by: upas on Wed, 19 May 2021, 14:08:05
I could do with another 1.5U Super and 1u Alt from the extension kit.
Is this for the true classic base?
This is unlikely - adding 2 more R5 keys will impact the cost for sure.
This was a bit of a "middle ground" approach - HHKB users can have one 1.5U Super, but not both.
Post by: Tyson on Wed, 19 May 2021, 15:23:41
Post by: XiXora on Wed, 19 May 2021, 15:53:18
This was a bit of a "middle ground" approach - HHKB users can have one 1.5U Super, but not both.
Yeah, the larger base.
I think I can use that on one board but I guess my HHKBs will miss out.
Post by: Tomn on Wed, 19 May 2021, 19:17:07
I'm digging the minimalistic black on white look
Post by: ryukomatoi on Fri, 21 May 2021, 01:01:17
How would it feel upside down?
Post by: upas on Fri, 21 May 2021, 09:16:57
Love love LOVE BoW sets. Curious to what an R5 spacebar feels like. But more importantly...
How would it feel upside down?
The spacebars are going to be the same! It's all the other keys that have a different profile.
Post by: tonnyzzzzz on Sat, 22 May 2021, 03:44:14
Post by: upas on Thu, 17 June 2021, 12:25:09
There is no 1.5u Code key. Mac users are crying :(
There is a single 1.5u super in the true classic kit!
Post by: HappyB0T on Thu, 17 June 2021, 14:50:42
Post by: frostfiree on Mon, 21 June 2021, 11:51:45
Post by: HaX on Thu, 08 July 2021, 22:09:34
Post by: Prelim on Mon, 12 July 2021, 03:01:47
Post by: mr_foggy on Mon, 12 July 2021, 04:01:34
100% in for a good WS1 kit without Hennessy's stupid lowercase mod text.
latest kitting is spot on.
Post by: CustomerSupport on Wed, 28 July 2021, 12:38:17
If I were to put this on my Tokyo60 as-is, it would be Alt-Super-Spacebar-Alt-Super which is a little odd to me
Post by: Entity. on Sat, 14 August 2021, 08:42:21
Post by: Sterenke on Sun, 15 August 2021, 08:46:48
Sent from my d3vic3 using Tapatalk
Post by: The0rigina1 on Thu, 19 August 2021, 06:43:26
Post by: proskit on Thu, 19 August 2021, 07:12:16
Post by: _IanOfEarth on Fri, 20 August 2021, 11:30:21
Post by: Curin Derwin on Sat, 21 August 2021, 23:56:29
Post by: DuellM on Sun, 22 August 2021, 01:15:55
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Wed, 01 September 2021, 14:33:07
Deskhero - CA
DailyClack - AUS
protoTypist - UK
myKeyboard - EU
iLumKB - SEA/Asia
The GB will run until October 1st. Q3 2022 ETA for Shipping.
Going to close this thread once a new GB thread is started / approved.