Author Topic: Keyboard recommendation.  (Read 8955 times)

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Offline Bollwerk

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  • Posts: 106
Keyboard recommendation.
« on: Sat, 01 August 2009, 22:16:27 »
Ok guys.

I've got a serious problem. I've typed a lot on ALPS. Then I started to love ML-Switches.

The G84-4100 is really nice but the hilarious layout gives me the creeps. I've tried to adapt to it, but after two weeks I find myself typing still slowlier an my fingers are tiring very fast because I have huge hands (hm, I'm very exacty 2 meters tall so it's no surprise)

Then I switched back to white ALPS. I can't type on them anymore. I'm freaking out. Blue ALPS the same. No chance. At the moment I'm typing on a G81-8308. I know MY-Switches very well because I learned typing on them, but they are giving me a hard time too.

Is anything out there that comes close to MLs but doesn't have a Num-Pad?

I first thought of a Filco tenkeyless with Browns or a Realforce. It would be quite a gambling for me though because I don't know those switches.

Do you have any ideas oder some hints based on your experiences?

I wouldn't mind importing or US-Layout. I give a +@#!" about ü, ö, and ä.^^
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline ch_123

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 06:24:20 »
A Filco with Blues may be a good idea. They pretty much the opposite of the Alps switches, and a good all-rounder. I don't know much about the ML switches, they're the short travel linear ones, right? I think that's the only switch of its kind that you are going to find easily.
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 August 2009, 06:26:59 by ch_123 »

Offline ch_123

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 06:36:36 »
I'm talking about force and where the point of actuation is. Maybe opposite is too strong a word, but still.

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #3 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 08:08:24 »
No numpad? Hmm. In terms of fullsize boards with MLs, there'd be these Tandbergs (see the reviews section for details).
Otherwise the G84-5200 might be of interest, which does have a numpad but comes in a compact layout somewhat less cramped than the 4100's. They also have versions with pointing devices instead of the numpad, no idea how well these work though.

Tried clears (or browns) yet? Clears remind me of scissor switches but with more travel below the tactile point.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 08:33:27 »
The thing is, that cherry seems to have switched the main production from G80-3000LXCDE-0 to G80-3000LQCDE-0 (in germany they both are called "Soft-Druckpunkt") which means browns are harder to get here. Frankly, I don't have an Idea what Browns feel like but since they are harder to get, I would like to try them out with a Filco.

Hm, usually they convert prices here 1:1 from dollar to that damn Euro, so the Filcos aren't that expensive compared to other Keyboards here. Maybe I'll take the chance and get two of them.

Here € has the nickname "Teuro". Comes from "teuer" (expensive) and Euro.^^

EDIT: I had a look at these Tandbergs earlier but I don't know what's up to these round shaped Keycaps. It looks very cheap either so I didn't bother to purchase one of them. 10€ isn't very expensive though. Maybe someday I get one.
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 August 2009, 08:36:47 by Bollwerk »
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline keyb_gr

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 09:22:15 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106188
The thing is, that cherry seems to have switched the main production from G80-3000LXCDE-0 to G80-3000LQCDE-0 (in germany they both are called "Soft-Druckpunkt") which means browns are harder to get here.

Actually I think browns never were a standard choice for G80-3000s. They did come on their ergo boards and a few others but weren't too widely used otherwise. Cherry's switch classics are blacks, blues and clears. Browns basically are lower-force clears.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 18:35:09 »
Hm. I'm a bit indecisive.

Is Topre really worth it? I mean, I get two Filcos for one HHKB Pro2.
So it must be really a big shot, I guess. I've read the reviews so far and regarding the poll about the favorite switches, Topre seems to be very popular too.

They are really light to press. I would like that. Browns are like that too.
Hm...

Are there any HHKB Pro2 owners out there who had been indecisive too before acquiring a Topre-Board?

I'm writing on Blue ALPS at the moment. Seems lilke I'm starting to getting used to them a bit like before the little ML-dynasty but I'm not sure if I'm really happy with clicky boards anymore. This is so confusing.

You know, I went through a lot to find the perfect mouse. It was a long and expensive process to find out, that a 13€ intellimouse Optical would be my nearly pefect choice of all the crap out there (I've got 17mice here). I'm a bit traumatized.
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline sixty

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    • http://deskthority.net
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 02 August 2009, 21:35:52 »
I have a Filco (fullsize) with Browns here. It has been used for about 2 or 3 months. I can give it a good clean and ship it over to you for 60 Euro or something. PM me if you're interested. PS: The board has a blank ESC key and blank arrow keys, since I swapped those with my other Filcos.

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 09:01:04 »
After owning my HHKB Pro II for a few months, I can tell you it's definitely a boutique item, as Ripster has said. I find it worth the money because I know whether it's a year old, or 10, the key feel will stay the same (generally), the keys will stay stiffer than any switch, and I will always be able to adapt the port from from usb2.0 mini to whatever might crop up next. It's also uniform and compact layout means I can buy extensions if I miss any portion of the keyboard too much. Which is much harder than attempting to saw a keyboard in half, removing stuff I don't want. I was nervous about getting the petite layout, but I was glad I did. Every day for about a month I was almost "giddy" typing on it, because I found myself never having to leave the home row, and actually using keys I didn't use much before because of how out of the way they were (specifically the home/end pageup/pagedown keys). I now use these, just as much as I use my arrow keys if I can.

With that said, asking "is it worth it?" will give you mixed results. Obviously, I find it worth it, and a few others will too. Others feel it's just a glorified rubber dome, and while sturdy, provides little to no feedback - and can't imagine why anyone would buy them :) Imagine that, Geekhackers with opinions.

Personally speaking, if I don't get exactly what I want, I end up regretting it until I do, it'll just keep bugging me in the back of my mind. So I took a leap, and the first couple days I was really contemplating why I dumped so much money on so little. Then it grew on me, and now I use my HHKB exclusively (sold my month old Filco and if there's any interested local buyers, I'll part with my G80 as well).

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #9 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 10:23:53 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106271
You know, I went through a lot to find the perfect mouse. It was a long and expensive process to find out, that a 13€ intellimouse Optical would be my nearly pefect choice of all the crap out there (I've got 17mice here). I'm a bit traumatized.

Heh. That reminds me of my trusty OEM Logitech M-BJ58 - no fancy paint to wear off, it dims when not used (unlike similar newer siblings), works quite reliably on all kinds of surfaces, and with real teflon feet it slides like a champ. Now of course a 400 dpi mouse is hardly anything to write home about these days, and getting the feet to stay on permanently involves multiple superglue attacks. It's not the kind of mouse to rest big paws on either, more for pushing around.

Have an Intelli Optical, too - the feet don't slide as well, and it's curved a bit too much on top for my taste.

Going back to keyboards, maybe try a more affordable Fujitsu-Siemens soft rubber dome board before splurging on a Topre. The KBPC E ergo board might fit the bill. No numpad, and NKRO (!) and adjustability to boot.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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  • Posts: 106
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 10:25:27 »
Thanks for sharing your experienes. Hm. To me it seems like there are no other ways but purchasing a HHKB Pro2 and a Filco Tenkeyless.

It isn't very rational, but I know me and whatever I purchase, I'll want to have the other. Purchasing both won't be possible for me, so I think I will gaze at the pics until elitekeyboards.com will continiue shipping and then choose one of them.
I'm really curious abaut topre.

@sixty: Really thanks for your offer. If it had been tenkeyless, I would have said yes in an instant but the small formfactor is an important aspect for me now.:frown:
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2009, 10:34:57 by Bollwerk »
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline Bollwerk

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  • Posts: 106
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 10:35:03 »
@keyb_gr: You can trust me. Since I've worked for Siemens, we had Fjitsu-Siemens Boards all over and I was so glad, that I could grab a Cherry. Those crappy things went bad in a year and looking at the prices gave me a feeling like WTF are they producing for 40€? I'll never buy a Keyboard labeled with these two names.

Regarding the mouse... I tuned my IMO with some teflonfeet from Steelseries. It's sliding like hell.^^
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline keyb_gr

  • Posts: 1384
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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 16:12:14 »
My, the quality of these FSC boards must really have gone downhill. At one time we had someone here who was looking to replace such a board that was well over 10 years old and used a lot.... think it was a P or so.

But I think I can relate, once there were a number of SC models (I think, could also be S2) in use in the PC pool and those had real bad key bounce. Guess these are made in China.

The PX also doesn't have NKRO any more (since 2004), the E seems to be the only one remaining in that regard. Both PX and E models still seem to be manufactured in Germany though. (You will also find the E model offered as the Kinesis Maxim btw.)
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline lowpoly

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 16:46:03 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106271
(I've got 17mice here). I'm a bit traumatized.

LOL

Quote from: keyb_gr;106418
The KBPC E ergo board might fit the bill. No numpad, and NKRO (!) and adjustability to boot.

I have some early ones which are not NKRO - I think. Can't remember having seen diodes on the switch pcb membrane:


Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 16:47:32 »
Maybe that won't apply to the boards you mentioned. I know four Siemens-Factories (not for IT-product though) but I got a nice look into the company and while not everything is crap (workstation computers aren't bad, but we had issues with them) we use many peripherals from FSC. Those Boards...
umm... those

were soft at the beginning and then very rattly after a few months. We dumped many of them already because of defects and we aren't even writers primary.
Maybe older Products are really nice but that and some other inofficial philosophies of the company make me upset but I can't write more about that because I can lose my job.^^
Whatever, don't let yourself get biased by this. This is only my personal expierience.

Besides (only for interest) I'd like to know how the situation is in other countries. I mean, I don't know a single german forum where someone asks for the best keyboard and gets not Logitech G15 as an answer immediatly.
Even reviews and user reviews of magazines are blessing the keystrokes of those crappy things. How can that be? Are they paid by Logitech?
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2009, 16:51:30 by Bollwerk »
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline timw4mail

  • Posts: 1329
    • https://timshomepage.net
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 18:25:13 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106657
How can that be? Are they paid by Logitech?


Although I wouldn't be suprised, people for the most part don't seem to care much about key-feel anymore. They are more concerned with the "bells & whistles" rather than how the keyboard does its primary function. Kind of sad isn't it?
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 03 August 2009, 18:41:17 »
I've made myself a bad name for some people out there, because people don't like it, if someone picks on things they like. May it be the truth or not that G15 ist crap. Imagine a thread where someone asks fo a new Gamerboard and obviouisly it should be the best, so everyone started yelling Logitech boards and whoo... some Cherry evolutionstreams made it in, too. And then, there is a guy like me, posting stuff about mechanical boards and that they have to be insane to pay (in case of the G19) 140€ for a mere rubberdome Board.

I retired mostly from this, leaving those who want to life in their little Keyboard World and I'm more than happy having found this board. It's like feeling home and the best thing is, here is still so much to learn. Sometimes I recommend a G80-3000, Steelseries 7g or someting to interested people in other forums, but that's it.

I made a review for the G81-8308. While most of the users overlooked it, many have been interested but one or two posted things like, why they shouldn't purchase a microsoft x6 instead of this ugly thing. Well, the world is full of sad stories, so I don't care.^^

To get back to topic. I started typing really well on black MX. xD
Something most of you can't imaginge, I guess. I'm a bit surpised either but it is tiring to keep the speed.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 August 2009, 18:43:41 by Bollwerk »
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #17 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 03:32:58 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106707
I made a review for the G81-8308.

Found it. So the programmable keys use blacks, huh? Interesting. I'd guess they can combine the same PCB with a G80 board as well.
Quote
To get back to topic. I started typing really well on black MX. xD
Something most of you can't imaginge, I guess. I'm a bit surpised either but it is tiring to keep the speed.

Blacks are neither bad (they're smooth mechanical switches after all, and very reliable too) nor overly exciting (as they do get somewhat tiring after typing for a while). For typing I prefer clears followed by blues.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 04:58:32 »
I'm still confused why they just didn't make a G80-8308 instead. It would have been hell of a nice board. Whatever. They didn't do it and I'm sure they won't do in near future. I don't think, they sell many of them and making an entire G80-Board would have raised the cost.

Hm. But I have a nice idea. I think, I'll open the case and take a look at the PCB. Maybe it can be exchanged with that of a G80-3000?^^
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #19 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 06:29:12 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106778
I'm still confused why they just didn't make a G80-8308 instead.

They did have something similar in the G80-8113/8116. Those had a card reader and touch pad instead of arrow keys though.
Quote
Hm. But I have a nice idea. I think, I'll open the case and take a look at the PCB. Maybe it can be exchanged with that of a G80-3000?^^

I'd think the G81-8308 has a special controller PCB.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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« Reply #20 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 06:39:22 »
Probably, but I want to see inside anyway.^^ Maybe there is a way because of the split PCB. We'll see about that but I have a bad feeling either.
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline lal

  • Posts: 360
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 07:30:01 »
Quote from: o2dazone;106382
I find [the HHKBP] worth the money because I know whether it's a year old, or 10, the key feel will stay the same (generally), the keys will stay stiffer than any switch,...


How can you know that?

Quote

Others feel it's just a glorified rubber dome, and while sturdy, provides little to no feedback - and can't imagine why anyone would buy them...


Full ACK!
BS: Customizer, Model Ms; Alps: CSK-2101, FK-2002, AT-101 (SGI & Dell), MCK-860, FKBN87Z/EB; Cherry: Poker X, FKBN87MC/EB, WY60, G80-3000, G84-4100, TDV 5010

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 12:10:49 »
OK, some pics here. Hm. Like mentioned... this won't do, I guess.^^ It seems to be a special layout for everything in this casing.
Ok, forget about that.
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline skartt

  • Posts: 60
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 12:18:24 »
Ha, i had exactly the same issues with the G84-4100. (Also the keycaps are smaller than normal.)

I am trying to get a Filco tenkeyless with brown Cherries next (completes my cherry lineup :)). However i would love to find a cherry SX tenkeyless - i do not leike to switch back and fourth from laptop scissors with 2mm to mechanical key modules with 4mm...

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #24 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 14:07:14 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106914
OK, some pics here. Hm. Like mentioned... this won't do, I guess.^^ It seems to be a special layout for everything in this casing.
Ok, forget about that.

At least you're quite unlikely to run into trouble with that membrane connection. (Check "MY Cherry has failed" thread in keyboard modifications for details.)
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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« Reply #25 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 16:53:37 »
I'm not expecting trouble anyway. My very first Board ever had MY-Switches and it has gone though hell! It has never failed once. It lost some Caps, they even broke the "+"-bracket but the switches never failed. I was young and I hammered on them a lot. It went on LANs... many LANs and fly through the rear trunk of my car for days.
If I look at it now, I hate myself for the extrem mistreat. I learned, that G81s are nearly indestructable.^^ Just kidding, but regarding my experiences they are really tough boards.
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline Bollwerk

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« Reply #26 on: Tue, 04 August 2009, 17:34:27 »
Yeah, how true. No kidding, I dreamed of a Filco-Board last night. That's insane but a good sign for choosing a Filco first.^^
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #27 on: Wed, 05 August 2009, 02:51:23 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;106995
I'm not expecting trouble anyway. My very first Board ever had MY-Switches and it has gone though hell! It has never failed once. It lost some Caps, they even broke the "+"-bracket but the switches never failed. I was young and I hammered on them a lot. It went on LANs... many LANs and fly through the rear trunk of my car for days.
If I look at it now, I hate myself for the extrem mistreat. I learned, that G81s are nearly indestructable.^^ Just kidding, but regarding my experiences they are really tough boards.

At least they used to be. A modern-day G81-3000 (new-style case, ca. 1998 onwards) would not withstand that amount of abuse, the traces at the membrane interface would wear through eventually. (G81-1800s and other more excpensive variations have the old-style connectors like your G81-8308 and thus should be about as durable as ever.) Liquids they don't like anyway.
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Bollwerk

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Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 11 August 2009, 13:34:54 »
Ok. I've chosen a FKBN87M/EB.

Filco tenkeyless with brown MX. Seems to be a nice deal and fairly priced.
I'm looking forward to it. :-]
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline molto

  • Posts: 52
    • http://www.friv.gs
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 12 August 2009, 13:07:23 »
Quote from: skartt;106920
However i would love to find a cherry SX tenkeyless - i do not leike to switch back and fourth from laptop scissors with 2mm to mechanical key modules with 4mm...
How about the Cherry CyMotion PRO?
y8 | Miniclip | y3 | friv | ben10 | y8 | kizi | y8 | y3  | y8 | pogo

Offline patrickgeekhack

  • Posts: 1460
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 16 August 2009, 16:16:25 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;107003
Yeah, how true. No kidding, I dreamed of a Filco-Board last night. That's insane but a good sign for choosing a Filco first.^^


Funny. I think we should seek help. The other day I dreamed I won a small amount of money from the lottery and was saying to myself that I would be ordering a Topre keyboard the next day.

Offline patrickgeekhack

  • Posts: 1460
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 16 August 2009, 16:21:13 »
Quote from: o2dazone;106382
After owning my HHKB Pro II for a few months, I can tell you it's definitely a boutique item, as Ripster has said. I find it worth the money because I know whether it's a year old, or 10, the key feel will stay the same (generally), the keys will stay stiffer than any switch, and I will always be able to adapt the port from from usb2.0 mini to whatever might crop up next. It's also uniform and compact layout means I can buy extensions if I miss any portion of the keyboard too much. Which is much harder than attempting to saw a keyboard in half, removing stuff I don't want. I was nervous about getting the petite layout, but I was glad I did. Every day for about a month I was almost "giddy" typing on it, because I found myself never having to leave the home row, and actually using keys I didn't use much before because of how out of the way they were (specifically the home/end pageup/pagedown keys). I now use these, just as much as I use my arrow keys if I can.

With that said, asking "is it worth it?" will give you mixed results. Obviously, I find it worth it, and a few others will too. Others feel it's just a glorified rubber dome, and while sturdy, provides little to no feedback - and can't imagine why anyone would buy them :) Imagine that, Geekhackers with opinions.

Personally speaking, if I don't get exactly what I want, I end up regretting it until I do, it'll just keep bugging me in the back of my mind. So I took a leap, and the first couple days I was really contemplating why I dumped so much money on so little. Then it grew on me, and now I use my HHKB exclusively (sold my month old Filco and if there's any interested local buyers, I'll part with my G80 as well).


I wish I could part with my keyboards as easily as you. First, they have some sentimental value. I have my Customizer connected to a secondary computer which I used from time to time just for the sound and feel of the keyboard. At work, I have two there.  Second, it's not as easy to sell you keyboards in Canada. I don't want to have to ship South of the border because I will have to fill a custom form. I just hate this. And third, I am just scared I would miss them once I've sold them. May be this will change if I get a Filco or a Topre...

Offline patrickgeekhack

  • Posts: 1460
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 16 August 2009, 16:26:09 »
Quote from: o2dazone;106382


Personally speaking, if I don't get exactly what I want, I end up regretting it until I do, it'll just keep bugging me in the back of my mind.


Very true. This is why I'm thinking it's now if, but when will I get a Topre or a Filco. This is what happened when I wanted to try OS X. I would keep looking at them on the net and wanting one. Then, when I was in front of one, I thought it was too much money and went home where again I would want one. In the end I just had to get one.

Offline huha

  • Posts: 388
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 16 August 2009, 19:45:02 »
Sorry to come back to the KBPC E, but:

Do current-issue KBPC Es really feature NKRO? I'm tempted to buy one just for that. I think the Fujitsu are one of the finer rubber-dome keyboards. I'd skip on them if they didn't feature NKRO, but if they do, I might buy one.
What about the older ones? I do have an old one (no Windows keys) normal-layout one somewhere around here, do they also feature NKRO? (Can't look up the model number right now)

-huha
Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline skartt

  • Posts: 60
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 18 August 2009, 16:59:29 »
Quote from: molto;109159
How about the Cherry CyMotion PRO?


woot missed that one ?! thx!

Tried a Keysonic KSK-6000 U but the arrow keys have been shrinked  (picture here) and for the love of god i cannot get used to it :). Besides those are not high quality scissor keys (big surprise, 20€ keyboard).

Those cherry SX keys are not always the same quality though. i have a G85-23000DE-2 [also 20 bucks) and that has far superior scissors compared to the G85-26000DE-2 (wireless desktop ~60€). Both listed with "SX technology"... Hm maybe i should use the coin trick to compare if the same force is needed to press.

Luckily my Filco tenkeyless with browns arrives tomorrow from taiwan =).

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 19 August 2009, 06:26:37 »
Quote from: skartt;110451
Tried a Keysonic KSK-6000 U but the arrow keys have been shrinked  (picture here) and for the love of god i cannot get used to it :). Besides those are not high quality scissor keys (big surprise, 20€ keyboard).


That's a shame. The layout looks great. If they got rid of the showy display, moved the numpad up, and improved the arrow keys, that would be a winner.

Offline skartt

  • Posts: 60
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 19 August 2009, 08:23:11 »
Quote from: Rajagra;110531
That's a shame. The layout looks great. If they got rid of the showy display, moved the numpad up, and improved the arrow keys, that would be a winner.


Why should they move the numpad up? (The showy display is nothing that some tape cannot fix :))

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 19 August 2009, 08:41:03 »
Quote from: skartt;110553
Why should they move the numpad up?


So the arrow keys can move to the right to become full sized and maybe have some separation from the letter keys.

Offline skartt

  • Posts: 60
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 19 August 2009, 09:17:26 »
I agree they should have used the layout from the 19" Cherry (G80-1800).

Especially with the very slim border they would gaines approx 2 cm in total width.

Offline Bollwerk

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 106
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #39 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 09:50:55 »
Yay. My Filco came in today.

It is really a nice board. I love Cherry Browns.^^
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:07:25 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;111047
Yay. My Filco came in today.
 
It is really a nice board. I love Cherry Browns.^^

Yes... come to the brown side.


Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:11:46 »
Quote from: Bollwerk;111047
Yay. My Filco came in today.

It is really a nice board. I love Cherry Browns.^^

Yes the browns are nice switches but the Topre's are better :biggrin:
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:13:51 »
Quote from: rdjack21;111062
Yes the browns are nice switches but the Topre's are better :biggrin:

Way to stimulate the economy, rdjack.


Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:14:26 »
Quote from: itlnstln;111059
Yes... come to the brown side.

Golden brown, finer temptress


Golden brown texture like sun
Lays me down with my mind she runs
Throughout the night
No need to fight
Never a frown with golden brown
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:16:42 by Rajagra »

Offline o2dazone

  • Posts: 953
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 10:42:15 »
I love riding the H train, never made that correlation with Cherry brown switches though

Offline rdjack21

  • Posts: 896
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 11:25:38 »
Quote from: itlnstln;111064
Way to stimulate the economy, rdjack.

Someone has to do it.
Keyboards
Topre Capacitive: Realforce 87U, Realforce 86U, HHKB Pro 2, Topre MD01B0, Topre HE0100, Sun Short Type, OEM NEO CS (x2), NISSHO Electronics KB106DE
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M Space Saver (1291472), Unicomp Customizer x 2
Cherry Brown: Filco FKBN87M/EB, Compaq MX11800
Black Alps: ABS M1
Not so great boards Rare Spring over dome OKI, Sun rack keyboard

Trackballs - Trackman Wheel (3), Trackman marble (2)
Keyboards I still want to get - Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 the White version, Realforce 23U number pad in black and maybe white, μTRON ergo board with Topre switches.
Previously owned - [size=0]SiiG MiniTouch (White Alps), Scorpius M10 (Blue Cherry), IBM Model M13[/size]

Offline Bollwerk

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 106
Keyboard recommendation.
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 21 August 2009, 12:07:20 »
Topre stands on top of my list. That is for sure. ;-)
\\Cherry:
*G80-1800, G80-3700, G80-1000, G80-1501, G80-2550,
*G81-8308, G81-1800, G81-1000, G84-4100, G84-4700

\\Others:
*Chicony E8H5IKKB-5162
*Mtek FKF456K-104
*Filco FKBN87M/EB