Author Topic: Soldering Iron/Station.  (Read 113068 times)

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Offline N8N

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 10:59:10 »
After going back and forth between the Hakko and the Weller, I bought a Weller WES51 which just showed up today.  Now I'm going to need to get some additional tips for it, and also decide whether I have the cojones to rip up my new keyboard or not :)

Dumb questions.  

1) in the box was a thing that looked like a plastic pen barrel with a shirt pocket clip on it, and a weak magnet shoved in the end.  What do you use that for?  Changing tips while hot? (only thing I can think of)
2) what temp setting would you use as a starting point for desoldering MX's from the PCB?
3) does anyone sell an actual assortment of the most commonly used tips for this soldering pencil, or do I need to pick them out myself and order individually?

thanks
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 August 2011, 11:03:02 by N8N »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #101 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:13:00 »
Congrats!
1- dunno
2- the iron cools as soon as you touch it to cooler objects. You need about 350 min to melt, so you should be at 550 at least if you're slow, hotter if you're faster.
3- get advice here and buy tips yourself

Confirm everything I've said here.

Some cool peeps linked me this, so I'm passing it on:
http://www.youtube.com/user/CuriousInventor#p/u/40/Vh9pWu6K6tc

There are several videos, watch them.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 August 2011, 14:26:50 by input nirvana »
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #102 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 18:45:39 »
Quote from: N8N;394157
After going back and forth between the Hakko and the Weller, I bought a Weller WES51 which just showed up today.  Now I'm going to need to get some additional tips for it, and also decide whether I have the cojones to rip up my new keyboard or not :)

Dumb questions.  

1) in the box was a thing that looked like a plastic pen barrel with a shirt pocket clip on it, and a weak magnet shoved in the end.  What do you use that for?  Changing tips while hot? (only thing I can think of)
2) what temp setting would you use as a starting point for desoldering MX's from the PCB?
3) does anyone sell an actual assortment of the most commonly used tips for this soldering pencil, or do I need to pick them out myself and order individually?

thanks

1)  Locks the temperature of the controller so people don't mess with it.  LED will turn red while in this mode.
2)  Since your board should have lead-free solder on it, use 650F.
3)  My default tip for 99% of my work is ETH.  ETR for "busy" PCB's where I have to get around components.  I've got other tips for surface mount stuff, but I won't worry you with those at this point in time.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #103 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 21:13:47 »
Quote from: RickyJ;394361

2)  Since your board should have lead-free solder on it, use 650F.


340C is barely enough for lead based solder, BTW given that adding fresh lead based alloy before desoldering is almost mandatory, that temp is good
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Offline litster

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« Reply #104 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:21:52 »
I use a 45w desoldering iron from Radio Shack.  It has worked quite well.  But you need to replace the tip once it is burned up.  The first tip lasted 2 switch desoldering jobs, one keyboard with 2 solder points each switch, 1 with 4 solder points each switch.


Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #105 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:33:58 »
You hold that thing with 2 hands?
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Offline litster

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« Reply #106 on: Sat, 06 August 2011, 23:45:53 »
Yes, one hand on the iron, one hand on the red pump.  So aiming solder joints is pretty steady and accurate.  and I only need one aim per solder joint, instead of one aim with the iron to heat up the joint and one aim with the pump.  It is not a piece of cake though.  it gets pretty tiresome after200+ solder joints when desoldering switches from a board.  Plate mounted switches have 2 joints per switch, PCB mount has 4 joints per switch.  This desoldering iron works best if you have a lot of joints to desolder at the same time.  If you are just desoldering a joint once in a while before of mistakes, a desoldering pump would be easier so you don't have plug in 2 irons.

Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #107 on: Sun, 07 August 2011, 00:32:50 »
Quote from: The Solutor;394418
340C is barely enough for lead based solder, BTW given that adding fresh lead based alloy before desoldering is almost mandatory, that temp is good


I have zero problems desoldering SMT and smaller through-hole components on lead-free process with 650F on my WES51, without adding 63/37.  High-current items with larger leads and bodies I add a touch of 63/37 so I can clear the through-hole.  If it's an older PCB using older style ground plane pads, then I have to bump the temperature and add 63/37 for that.  Maybe I'm just lucky?
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #108 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:26:14 »
I know Ripster uses solid sal ammoniac for his iron. Is 1/4 lb. block enough...size wise?

Does anyone use those little pucks of tip tin? The tips for my soldering iron normally start at $10 so I want to be extra careful with them.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #109 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:28:10 »
I always used the usual wet sponge to clean the tip and I haven't had a single problem.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #110 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:37:14 »
I'm thinking of any oxidation that may form that solder/flux may not remove. I know you can dip the tip in flux and wipe, but as I understand it, that's harder on the tip. I have a brass-coil-shavings impregnated with flux tip wiper/cleaner that came with my Hakko. I just wanted to know if there is anything I can do (reasonably) to keep the tips in better shape. After destroying the connections on the laptop mainboard I'm sensitive to the issue.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #111 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:47:40 »
Quote
I have a brass-coil-shavings impregnated with flux tip wiper/cleaner that came with my Hakko.


I don't trust a lot those hard ways, a wet sponge wil remove anything w/o touching the tip coating, and is cheap.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #112 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 20:48:04 »
I had never heard of any procedure other than wet sponge and solder/w flux to re-tin before this forum.  My father was an EE and assembled his own Altair 80 system (meaning soldering the chips and all) and he and I did some Heath Kits together.  I'm thinking tip issues are only prevalent if you are overdoing the heat (usually for speed).
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #113 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 21:21:42 »
HEATH KITS! I haven't heard that in forever! Good times. lol

Now that I have a selectable temp. solder station I can keep the temp. lower I guess than the 30 watt RS iron. Maybe between solder with flux and the brass shavings tip cleaner everything will be fine. Thought I'd see what others were doing. You guys using a sponge, do you use distilled water?
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Offline TexasFlood

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« Reply #114 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 21:28:53 »
Heath kits and radio shack pencil irons, takes me back.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #115 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:13:57 »
Quote from: input nirvana;396760
HEATH KITS!  You guys using a sponge, do you use distilled water?


I think that the GH subscription has as a side effect the attitude to inflate pointless details :happy:

No, just plain water, and a sponge (or sponge cloth) stolen to mom or auntie
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #116 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 22:42:49 »
Quote from: ripster;396782
I use Sal Ammoniac.
(Attachment Link) 23841[/ATTACH]

Because I'm THAT lazy.

Plus, you can turn them into bombs if you're bored.

Does it work out just like in the video you posted? Do you think it's any better, or is it really just a convenience issue?
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Offline RC-1140

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« Reply #117 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 11:06:55 »
Here in Germany when buying a soldering iron you have to choose between Weller and ERSA, these are the two big companies here. Just recently I bought a ERSA Multitip C15, and I'm quite happy with it. I'm not soldering much, and I clean it with a wet sponge, using simple water. Compared to the cheap 15€ Soldering station I had before it feels like heaven! I mean, come on, we bought 10 of these cheap stations for school, and 3 of them blew up in a cloud of smoke at first use. I like my Ersa.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #118 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 13:11:35 »
Quote from: RC-1140;398741
I mean, come on, we bought 10 of these cheap stations for school, and 3 of them blew up in a cloud of smoke at first use. I like my Ersa.

LOL

Quality counts. Women, cars, soldering irons.

Now that I have acquired so much soldering stuff the last few weeks, I need a tool case to pack it all in. Somehow a cardboard box just doesn't do it justice.

Yikes, tool cases are expensive!
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Offline xbb

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« Reply #119 on: Mon, 15 August 2011, 09:34:21 »
Is this any good? http://www.aoyue.com/en/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=337
I can find the Hakko here in Italy but it costs way too much (570 USD... crazy eh?)

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #120 on: Mon, 15 August 2011, 11:17:49 »
$570 USD for what model? Hakko has units between $90-$600 USD that I know of. Hey, if it's too much I'll buy one here and ship it to you if that helps. :)

Aoyue are called Hakko 'knock offs', I do not have the experience to offer any advice, someone else will need to chime in.

It depends on the type and quantity of soldering you are doing. If you are doing very little, occasional, easy items, you can save money and get a good soldering pencil. I prefer the concept of being able to control the temperature though, plus, I had a bad soldering project, so I went all out on the Hakko.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #121 on: Mon, 15 August 2011, 21:13:25 »
Quote from: xbb;399212
I can find the Hakko here in Italy but it costs way too much (570 USD... crazy eh?)


Is plenty of cheap desoldering station good enough to desolder some keyboards...

http://cgi.ebay.it/STAZIONE-dissaldante-dissaldatore-digitale-/310328815032?pt=Saldatori_e_Tester&hash=item484109edb8

http://cgi.ebay.it/Stazione-saldante-dissaldante-Lukey-902-/290594757456?pt=Saldatori_e_Tester&hash=item43a8cc1b50

If you want something better w/o spending an huge amount of money on weller stations look to the JBC products, unlike Hakko they are well known in Italy, and accessories and spare parts are available everywhere.
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Offline xbb

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« Reply #122 on: Mon, 15 August 2011, 23:11:14 »
I looked for JBC but they are way more expensive :(

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #123 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 00:14:39 »
Quote from: xbb;399651
I looked for JBC but they are way more expensive :(


Yeah, I've just checked looks like the have moved in to an higher level of products, lately.

Most of their relatively cheap products aren't sold anymore.

Btw keep in mint that mechanical keyboards are basically products from a past era, and a pas tera desoldering station is needed.

Most of the newer, high end, soldering/and desoldering stations are aimed to the nowadays electronics, with supertiny SMD components, little and lead free solder involved and so on.

Unless you mind to replace controller chips on actual keyboards, an used or a cheap soldering station is more than enough i saw some used JBC station sold for 100€ or so...
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #124 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:17:11 »
I was feeling a little foolish for my Hakko over-purchase a couple weeks ago, but then I used it today for the first time...WOW!!! From cold to 700 F in 5 seconds! Small, thin, light and easy ergonomic handle that is the size of a pencil with a foam rubber grip. Not hot in hand. It was like night and day compared to the soldering pencil I was using. The flux-impregnated brass shaving tip cleaner instead of a sponge was excellent. I'll never use a sponge again.

I don't feel foolish anymore. I can't wait to solder something else!

Make sure you buy a little more than you need, not a little less.
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Offline litster

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« Reply #125 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:22:19 »
Which Hakko model did you get?

Offline iMav

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« Reply #126 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:27:11 »
Quote from: litster;399706
Which Hakko model did you get?
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #127 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 01:41:41 »
Quote from: input nirvana;399702
I was feeling a little foolish for my Hakko over-purchase a couple weeks ago, but then I used it today for the first time...WOW!!! From cold to 700 F in 5 seconds!


Obviously a good soldering station is an huge step from a basic soldering iron, if one is an electronic hobbyist an expensive one is more than justified but if one has planing just one or two keyboards to mod, spending 500$ or more is completely unjustified, that's what I'm saying.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #128 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 02:01:53 »
Oh yes, of course. One or two keyboards don't justify that type of expense no matter what planet you're from. I'm so surprised at the ease with which the work I did today turned out. I couldn't imagine people doing it all day when I used the previous iron, but now, I could have gone for hours without a second thought. It was enjoyable. I never thought it could be enjoyable.

I want to thank a bunch of you guys for answering my questions, some in thread, some in PM, but the feedback, suggestions, stories of success and failure...really helped me do the right thing the first time, not screw around with a bunch of false starts.

Soldering irons= Quality heat. Tips. Ergonomic. TIN THE TIP CONSTANTLY.

I'm getting prepared for the Geekhack Kustom Keyboard Kontroller (GKKK) we're going to build :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 August 2011, 02:15:34 by input nirvana »
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Offline xbb

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« Reply #129 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 13:39:46 »
I have already a good soldering station from JBC (AD2200) but it's not the new modular series so I can't just buy a new desoldering module.
I just wanted a desoldering station to do some fast desoldering. I'm almost sure I'll end up buying this: SSD15

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #130 on: Tue, 16 August 2011, 15:55:40 »
Yes it's the one I linked before

I'm sure it will be more than worth the 70 euro it cost.

And if it will last just six months or ten keyboards no one will cry
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #131 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 09:47:24 »
A desoldering station is primarily used for a large quantity, or for better results, or for---?
In comparison to a solder sucker.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #132 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 09:58:56 »
Quote
A desoldering station is primarily used for a large quantity, or for better results, or for---?
 In comparison to a solder sucker.


Well surely are meant for large or repetitive desoldering and usually also for better result. Although sometime the manual sucker is more effective on specific soldering points, as it gives a peak depression that hardly a soldering station can provide.

There were also some middle ways.

I had a Philips desolder that was manually controlled like a cheap sucker, but electrically heated like a professional desoldering iron

Like this http://cgi.ebay.it/DISSALDATORE-40W-230V-UZ4-10-13-VAC-3000-/250859774741?clk_rvr_id=256679075850
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #133 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 17:55:27 »
So I'm looking and thinking a powered/heating/sucking desoldering unit is probably easier to use? I'm sure faster as well. They seem awfully expensive.

The unit you linked seems like a happy medium?
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #134 on: Wed, 17 August 2011, 19:04:50 »
Quote from: input nirvana;400631

The unit you linked seems like a happy medium?


Surely is better than a standard sucker, i don't know the specific unit I linked but looks like Philips doesn't made soldering equipments anymore they were very good and not expensive.

I had also a standard philips sucker was way better than the ones i find nowadays.
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Offline xbb

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« Reply #135 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 17:14:28 »
Quote from: The Solutor;400670
Surely is better than a standard sucker, i don't know the specific unit I linked but looks like Philips doesn't made soldering equipments anymore they were very good and not expensive.

I had also a standard philips sucker was way better than the ones i find nowadays.

So I bought one of those chinese stations, they do work good but they become clogged very fast and it's not so easy to clean them.
There is a spring inside with a smaller end which fills with solder and to remove it  the only way is to melt it! Then it becomes usable again...

Offline Parak

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« Reply #136 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 19:56:35 »
Hakko 808 is the best in breed for desoldering. I got one recently on a great deal, and it's made out of awesome and epic.

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #137 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 20:22:03 »
Awesome and epic? Is there anything better than that, or is awesome and epic the end of the race?
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Offline Parak

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:00:50 »
Quote from: input nirvana;401298
Awesome and epic? Is there anything better than that, or is awesome and epic the end of the race?

Conceivably, something could be legendary win, but it doesn't exist to my knowledge.

Offline oddsratio

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #139 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:14:07 »
So I just bought a used Hakko, which should be coming in next week. It needs a new tip though, so I'm wondering what size you're using for swapping switches; this iron takes 900L tips for those that have a similar model.

For those using other brands, I have a choice between either 2mm or .5mm (both conical), so I'm not sure which is the right fit for the work area.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:19:19 by oddsratio »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #140 on: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:17:29 »
Oooooh! Legendary Win!

Here, I'll help you with that....

« Last Edit: Thu, 18 August 2011, 21:21:28 by input nirvana »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #141 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 13:35:02 »
I see the Hakko 808 available for $160. Awesome and epic just got a little more affordable.
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Offline 500_pts

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #142 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 13:56:04 »
http://www.jbctools.com/stations/stations/desoldering-rework/234-desoldering-rework/424-rmst-rmvt-rework-station

Trust me. Use this. Infinitely awesome and epic.

I use them at work. I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did
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Offline Parak

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« Reply #143 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 14:33:48 »
Quote from: 500_pts;401763
I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did

Pfft, it's only 4 grand. I'd go for the http://www.howardelectronics.com/jbc/am7000smd.html instead.

Offline The Solutor

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #144 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 15:07:51 »
Quote from: 500_pts;401763
I have no idea what it costs, and i would probably cry if i did


Very likely...

Edit: overlooked the link posted by Parak , I guessed 4500$ but look like I was too optimist...
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2011, 15:10:13 by The Solutor »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #145 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 21:05:52 »
Wow, that is major equipment!

I didn't fully realize until now, that much of the work I'm embarking on requires a lot of desoldering. Almost as much as soldering. I won't mind the solder sucker for 20-30 connections, but if there's a better way....

Just saw a couple utube videos of the Hakko 808. That. Is. Slick.
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2011, 21:29:56 by input nirvana »
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Offline N8N

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Soldering Iron/Station.
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 20 August 2011, 20:46:34 »
So I'm into my Filco which I really want to change to clears...  got a Soldapullt and also a smaller knockoff.... fire up soldering station, meld solder, apply desoldering tool, and... nothing.  Just doesn't suck up any solder at all.

I guess I just need to find someone that carries desoldering braid?  or is there something I'm missing?  I have to desolder at least 208 points to get the PCB off if I'm understanding this correctly and I'm not off to an auspicious start.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #147 on: Sat, 20 August 2011, 21:13:39 »
The pump has to be RIGHT ON the solder, like right there the thickness of a piece of paper away from the iron....it won't suck solder from a 1/4" away. Don't worry too much about burning the tip, it's teflon or something like that. And try to position the pump so it will suck up solder, not air. Try to have it OVER the solder almost upright, so it sucks the solder, not sideways so it can suck air instead. Check a youtube video.

You may need to put some flux on it, or even a well-tinned tip with a little extra solder to help get the solder-blob more "juicy".
Having wick is also a good idea.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 August 2011, 21:24:44 by input nirvana »
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #148 on: Sat, 20 August 2011, 22:11:42 »
Thanks...  I've done tons of soldering before but mostly in an automotive repair type scenario.  Never desoldered before, but if you never try, you never learn, right?  I think it's working now... and yes, I've found that I practically have to retin the tip every terminal or two otherwise that darn RoHS solder just won't even melt.  And I'm not sure if I'm getting all the stuff out because I don't want to pry on the board too hard, and this is kind of tedious... I'm only halfway through desoldering all the switches.  But hopefully the results will be worth it!  Either that, or I'll have a pile of really expensive nonfunctional parts when I'm done :/
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #149 on: Sat, 20 August 2011, 22:28:49 »
I learned recently the lead-free needs to be a good 50 degrees F hotter than the leaded, and it is harder to work with. I don't know if you saw the thread where Bluecar has been helping me, but I almost destroyed a laptop mainboard from desoldering 2 broken usb ports. The laptop had lead-free, and I've never worked with it before. Plus, I'm not a master-solderer----yet.

Automotive is much easier than electronics in my opinion. Appropriate tip size is fairly crucial too, much more than people mention. When I remove switches, almost any tip seems to work, I think that type of work is more forgiving. Re-tin and flux baby, re-tin and flux!!!
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Things change, things stay the same                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
~retired from forum activities 2015~