New Dell AT101Ws $10

[fkeidjn]

more about the Alps blacks. I still like them, but only after using them for a while. They feel kind of like really heavy Topres, so they might loosen up and be pretty nice, but for now I don't know.

All you need are the rubber dampers, and then you have an SGI keyboard.

[iMav]

Reminds me of these two threads on macrumors:

Tangerine Macbook
Orange iBook

[xsphat]

So after just two days, I had to switch out the Dell, even if just for a few days.

[ch_123]

I got myself a rather worn out AT102W a month ago, but I might take a chance with one of these considering that theyre new and cheap. I could even transfer the switches from the US layout one to my UK layout one if I was sufficiently bored

[itlnstln]

All you need are the rubber dampers, and then you have an SGI keyboard.

You can't retro-fit the rubber dampers into a switch that doesn't have them already, unfortunately.  This is waht I am going to try to attempt in my Northgate mod (by switching the sliders out with those form an Apple 'board).

[lexicon]

Is it possible to remove the dampers in an SGI board?  It would be cool to convert it to straight white Alps.  Alps switches seem pretty easy to get into from the top -- where is the bumper?

[itlnstln]

Is it possible to remove the dampers in an SGI board?  It would be cool to convert it to straight white Alps.  Alps switches seem pretty easy to get into from the top -- where is the bumper?

Yes, It should be easy to remove.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot2.htm

If you do get rid of them, send them to me.  I will have to find sliders that will take them, but they should come in handy if some of the Apple ones I get are dry-rotten.

[wellington1869]

we need a rubber dampers "bank"

[itlnstln]

The biggest issue with it is needing the sliders to use the dampers.  It would have been nice if they would have used the same slider design across all the switches.  Then, production costs could have been cheaper and they would just add the dampers as necessary.  Oh well, it just makes modding that much harder.

[wellington1869]

The  It would have been nice if they would have used the same slider design across all the switches.  Then, production costs could have been cheaper and they would just add the dampers as necessary. .

exactly, I'm surprised they didnt do that.

I guess thing to do is acquire a set of those sliders from an AEKII and keep them for life (xferring them into any new alps boards you get, as you go).

[itlnstln]

exactly, I'm surprised they didnt do that.

I guess thing to do is acquire a set of those sliders from an AEKII and keep them for life (xferring them into any new alps boards you get, as you go).

Pretty much.  I am not looking forward to doing the mod.  It is going to be a monotonous, tedious PITA.

[D-EJ915]

I got my 3 today (took long enough lol, ups).  Anyway the force needed to actually get the keys down is a lot lower than I'm used to except on the HHKB2 which is probably about the same or lighter.

[xsphat]

I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.

[D-EJ915]

I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.

sounds cool.

Are the keys always this difficult to pop off?  Granted I was using yo-yo string wrapped around either side of the switch under the key but dang.

[xsphat]

Alps keys are always a pain to get off.

[wellington1869]

Are the keys always this difficult to pop off?  Granted I was using yo-yo string wrapped around either side of the switch under the key but dang.

use the "two paperclips" method.

[lowpoly]

I took my Dell apart today, since I go the the new keys for the Topre, and it looks like I could hack off the number pad. I'm gonna see what I can do about getting the proper tools and I'll keep you cats posted as to whether I am going to attempt the mod.

Better saw the pcb somewhere outside, the dust is toxic. And if you use for ex. a Dremel there will be lots of dust.

[xsphat]

Better saw the pcb somewhere outside, the dust is toxic. And if you use for ex. a Dremel there will be a lot of dust.

Thanks for the tip. My biggest concern with the project is the two metal plates the PCB is sandwiched between. The rest should be cake.

[lowpoly]

IIRC, there's only one metal plate. The one on the back is just a piece of cardboard? Anyway, a Dremel would take care of everything in no time.

The most difficult part is probably getting nice cuts through the case. Hard to do without machinery. Maybe with a miter-box saw. I'd probably let a company do it with a milling machine. You can put little circular saw blades on those. You will have clean cuts and everything will fit nicely afterwards.

[wellington1869]

Thanks for the tip. My biggest concern with the project is the two metal plates the PCB is sandwiched between. The rest should be cake.

the metal plates are going to be a B**ch.
Cant you take it to home depot and have them cut it for $5 or $10?
They've done that for me with copper plumbing pipe and etc.

[xsphat]

lowpoly, there are two in mine — one on the top and one of the bottom.

[fkeidjn]

Would it be possible to chop off the excess plastic, to make it more like a Filco Tenkeyless?

[xsphat]

Maybe, but that would kill what the keyboard is - fugly!

And if I was to do that I would just build a new case. I want to modify the Dell (and get rid of that stupid logo), so that is a good idea, but not my intent.

[lowpoly]

lowpoly, there are two in mine — one on the top and one of the bottom.

Oh, haven't seen that before (and I took a few apart). Does that mean you can't access the circuit side of the pcb? Because it's possibile that you cut vital paths when cutting off the numpad.

[cchan]

My AT101W has a metal plate on top, and a metallized cardboard one on the bottom. Could it be that xsphat is mistaking the metallized cardboard sheet for an actual metal plate?

[iMav]

My AT101W has a metal plate on top, and a metallized cardboard one on the bottom. Could it be that xsphat is mistaking the metallized cardboard sheet for an actual metal plate?

I'm sure xsphat's AT101W is the same as everyone else's.

[bigpook]

Got my Dell today, I take back the negative comments. Granted, its full size, but its new. Its even got that new keyboard smell : ) And the key feel is very nice.

[wellington1869]

Got my Dell today, I take back the negative comments. Granted, its full size, but its new. Its even got that new keyboard smell : ) And the key feel is very nice.

wow, these have been a big hit huh? Mine is due in on the 22nd.

So I wonder how long an alps board lasts before turning into the gritty rattly monsters we've all experienced. "8 to 10 million keystrokes" is supposed to be the switch lifespan -- but how much is that in years? (assuming its one's main board).

[bigpook]

wow, these have been a big hit huh? Mine is due in on the 22nd.

So I wonder how long an alps board lasts before turning into the gritty rattly monsters we've all experienced. "8 to 10 million keystrokes" is supposed to be the switch lifespan -- but how much is that in years? (assuming its one's main board).

I will probably never find out. I doubt it will get used all that much. The gritty rattly monsters you mention is making me wonder. Do all alp switches degrade quickly? Or was/is it something else. I have a keyboard coming with white alps, will that the suffer the same fate?
Maybe I should have went with the blue cherries.

[xsphat]

Pook, it's just like everything else in life — you get back what you put out. My 20+ year old Northgate was smooth, as have been all the new Alps and the vast majority of my used Alps keyboards. Just take care of it the way you were going to anyway and you'll be fine.

[itlnstln]

Pook, it's just like everything else in life — you get back what you put out. My 20+ year old Northgate was smooth, as have been all the new Alps and the vast majority of my used Alps keyboards. Just take care of it the way you were going to anyway and you'll be fine.

Exactly.  The ones Wellington and I got initially were stored in a fairly dirty and dusty location.  I spent about 10-15 min. taking them apart and bloeing them out with an air duster.  There was all types of dust bunnies and dirt flying out of there.  I think that was why the switches felt gritty.  I have had my Northgate for awhile, and, other than the switches loosening up a little with use, they fell just as smooth as when I got them.  When I do my mod on the Northgate, I am going to blow out the inside of each switch as I replace the guts to ensure they stay clean.

[bigpook]

Thanks for the context. I feel better now. : )

[itlnstln]

Thanks for the context. I feel better now. : )

And, sh*t, it's $10.  If the 'board sucks after a year or two of use, I still think that's a better deal than any other $10 'board on the market.  That's why I got 3.

[xsphat]

They are nice keyboards.

[bigpook]

And, sh*t, it's $10.  If the 'board sucks after a year or two of use, I still think that's a better deal than any other $10 'board on the market.  That's why I got 3.

Well yes, thats true. I should have got a couple instead of one. It will be hard to find them again at that price in the future.

[wellington1869]

Exactly.  The ones Wellington and I got initially were stored in a fairly dirty and dusty location.  I spent about 10-15 min. taking them apart and bloeing them out with an air duster.  There was all types of dust bunnies and dirt flying out of there.  I think that was why the switches felt gritty.

that would explain it I guess. That makes me feel better about alps too.

[kodos96]

When I do my mod on the Northgate...

Not sure if you've already talked about it in another thread, but what mod(s) are you planning on your Northgate? (I'm assuming you're talking about the Evolution). As an Evolution owner with modding plans myself, I'm just curious what others are up to.

[wellington1869]

Not sure if you've already talked about it in another thread, but what mod(s) are you planning on your Northgate? (I'm assuming you're talking about the Evolution). As an Evolution owner with modding plans myself, I'm just curious what others are up to.

he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)

Is that about right itln?

[wellington1869]

Now for the alternative solution You know how those Model M's have those speaker grills with nothing behind them? I'm thinking about using it, in combination with the Sennheiser PX-300  noise-canceling headphones which I have. I'd need a small amplifier, and ideally it would not catch sound (reaction time..NC is better with continuous sounds) but be triggered by the keys, with, I guess, some pre-recorded sound. But that would be very difficult..

wow, now thats a mod!

[itlnstln]

he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)

Is that about right itln?

10-4!

[kodos96]

he's going to silence it completely by addressing each of the sources of noise on it: click, bottoming clack, topping clack, resonance.  
(using, respectively: black alps leaf, rubber dampers from AEKii, rubber dampers from AEKii, and sound absorbing anti-resonance pads.)

Why the black leaf springs instead of just using the AEKii for everything? Are AEKii's leaf springs too clicky?

I like the feel of my the white's so much that I'm not sure I want to mess with the leaf springs (especially if that Dell I tried the other day was in fact black alps - I didnt like the feel of them at all). So I'm thinking I might try AEKii sliders/dampers but leave the white's leaf srpings - I think I could live with the click, if I could just eliminate the clack. But I'll have to find an AEKii first and see how it goes (if anyone knows where I can get an AEKii btw, please let me know).

[kodos96]

Now for the alternative solution You know how those Model M's have those speaker grills with nothing behind them? I'm thinking about using it, in combination with the Sennheiser PX-300  noise-canceling headphones which I have. I'd need a small amplifier, and ideally it would not catch sound (reaction time..NC is better with continuous sounds) but be triggered by the keys, with, I guess, some pre-recorded sound. But that would be very difficult..

I had this same idea before (not for a keyboard, but for other noise-cancelling needs). But what I'm wondering is whether noise-cancelling works with free-standing speakers (as opposed to headphones). It seems like having the cancellation waveform come from a source not localized right by your ears might make it not work... my main source of scepticism is just that if this DID work, somebody would have done it already.... cause you could make a Get Smart "cone of silence" kinda thing, which would be so cool that, if it were possible, you'd expect someone to have already productized it, and have infomertials for it on late night TV....

[itlnstln]

The click is unnecessary in the Alps switches and just adds sound without adding much feel.  In a Model M, the click IS the actuation of the switch in that when the spring buckles and, thus, clicks, the hammer presses on the membrane.  On the Alps, the click is just the leaf slamming against the casing of the switch; the switch is activated by another mechanism.  I found a "parts only" AEKII on ebay for about $3.

[kodos96]

The click is unnecessary in the Alps switches and just adds sound without adding much feel.  In a Model M, the click IS the actuation of the switch in that when the spring buckles and, thus, clicks, the hammer presses on the membrane.  On the Alps, the click is just the leaf slamming against the casing of the switch; the switch is activated by another mechanism.  I found a "parts only" AEKII on ebay for about $3.

Well then what accounts for the difference in feel between whites and blacks?

[itlnstln]

Well then what accounts for the difference in feel between whites and blacks?

The minimal (IMO) difference in feel in balcks and whites has to do with the leaf snapping back on the casing of the switch.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

[kodos96]

The minimal (IMO) difference in feel in balcks and whites has to do with the leaf snapping back on the casing of the switch.  See here:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

The Dell I tried the other day felt WAY different (in a bad way) than my Northgate (whites).... but I wasn't able to verify what keyboard that actually was... did Dell ever make any keyboards with non-membrane switches other than alps black?

[itlnstln]

The differences I feel between my Dells and my Northgate have to do more with the case of the keyboard (plastic vs. steel, respectively) than the switches.  To me, the switches, themselves, feel very silmilar aside from a little more snap in the tactile bump on the whites.

[wellington1869]

any chance you can post before/after sound files?

[wellington1869]

does anyone know if this dell (at101w) has alps or strongmans?

[itlnstln]

Alps.