Author Topic: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.  (Read 860389 times)

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #150 on: Tue, 19 August 2014, 17:25:20 »
@MaximilianKohler really? that's nice to know...hope that they get the sensor right this time. About the cooperhead you must be right, I know that when that happened, was a deal breaker for me.
I have a few questions if you don't mind answering! I'll be acquiring a 27" monitor soon enough, and will start playing games at 2560x1440...I know it's quite high resolution, do you think that 400 dpi would be too low for that? Ingame and while browsing? I mean, I would have to change that much my sens? And do you think if I got a mionix for example, if I use 800 dpi via software to help with the increased resolution and kinda balance this increase by lowering my sens ingame would be the same? Would it result in the "same" perception with a 400 dpi or would be a lot diferent? Or just stick with 400 dpi anyway? I ask that because of the new monitor and gaming at higher resolutions, if that would be that big of a deal. Don't know if that would be any help, but I was used this cfg when I player: 640x480 ingame, windows sens 6, 1000hz, no accel and 2.4 sens ingame, with the 3.0, 400 dpi I guess.
I currently use the Benq xl2411z. Which is a 24" 1920x1080 monitor. I also use extended desktop with my old 2233rz.

I'm ok with 400dpi on the desktop, but it would be nice to have around 800. For games like dota that don't let you change your sensitivity ingame, and thus to get a higher sensitivity you need higher dpi, 400dpi is annoyingly slow for me. But I mostly play FPS games, so that doesn't factor in for me. It also doesn't bother me in Starcraft 2.

I use identical sens as you in 1.6. No matter what you set the avior to, in 1.6 you're going to feel a negative difference in the performance vs your 3.0. I would not recommend switching to the avior.

As far as "needing more CPI for higher resolutions", I haven't noticed any discernible negative effects when going over the "useful DPI threshold". If you plug in your values into this site: http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html it puts your useable DPI at 472, which is only barely over your 450dpi mouse.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline RadicalStyle

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #151 on: Wed, 20 August 2014, 18:33:57 »
What means "ADNS"? For example "Avago ADNS 3310" and "Avago 3310" What's the difference?

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #152 on: Wed, 20 August 2014, 19:40:01 »
ADNS is just their model name, avago deadly noobkiller sensor or something (no idea what it actually stands for. but they're the same. as is PixArt 3310 / PixArt PMW3310 / PixArt PMW3310DH, afaik. please correct me if I am wrong)

Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #153 on: Wed, 20 August 2014, 23:41:38 »
First time seeing confirmation that the Logitech G502 is a good mouse in technical terms ;P
Feels great. A bit heavy but I have a low friction mousepad (artizan shidenkai x-soft)

Offline Kfactork

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #154 on: Thu, 21 August 2014, 00:55:35 »
ADNS is just their model name, avago deadly noobkiller sensor or something (no idea what it actually stands for. but they're the same. as is PixArt 3310 / PixArt PMW3310 / PixArt PMW3310DH, afaik. please correct me if I am wrong)


LOL. Are you in marketing by any chance ;)

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #155 on: Thu, 21 August 2014, 07:48:42 »
ADNS is just their model name, avago deadly noobkiller sensor or something (no idea what it actually stands for. but they're the same. as is PixArt 3310 / PixArt PMW3310 / PixArt PMW3310DH, afaik. please correct me if I am wrong)


LOL. Are you in marketing by any chance ;)

yup, I work for Headshot Master eRazerz Elite 65 (TM)(R)(C) LED Pro

Offline reaver9

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #156 on: Thu, 21 August 2014, 15:49:46 »
Sorry about the late reply!

@munch Really? That's nice to know! I think I'll try the mionix later, seems that's it's one of the better mices out there, from the "new" ones, really aprecciate the help!

@MaximillianKohler Do you think it's slow to move around, I mean, slow to the point that will start bothering? I'll use a slightly higher resolution, so I don't know about that. I think I'll try with the 3.0 in higher resolutions, and if it's totally ok, great. Also I'm worried about the hz, it's 125 default I think, that would be really bad, don't know how to resolve that. That last thing, I didn't understood quite well, what would be "useable" DPI? Thanks for the help!

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #157 on: Fri, 22 August 2014, 18:39:41 »
@MaximillianKohler Do you think it's slow to move around, I mean, slow to the point that will start bothering? I'll use a slightly higher resolution, so I don't know about that. I think I'll try with the 3.0 in higher resolutions, and if it's totally ok, great. Also I'm worried about the hz, it's 125 default I think, that would be really bad, don't know how to resolve that. That last thing, I didn't understood quite well, what would be "useable" DPI? Thanks for the help!
Useful DPI is covered here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50#user_v

Basically you put your settings into the previous link I gave you and it will tell you what your useful DPI is. Anything over that is a waste.

As far as when it will be slow enough to bother you, that depends on the game you're playing and individual preference. For FPS games it's not a factor.

For hz you'll need to stick with windows 7.
- http://www.gamefront.com/files/24069720/USBHz_Win7.7z
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
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Offline option.iv

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #158 on: Tue, 26 August 2014, 17:19:41 »
Just wanted to chime in and say that the Roccat Kone Military does not track on an Steelseries I-2 (icemat v2). However, my Logitech g502 tracks fine on the I-2, even without surface calibration. Kind of a bummer, since I gave up my Ratpadz XT for an I-2 (not going back) and I really liked the ergonomics of the Kone Military. It would also be nice to add any problems with tracking on certain surfaces for mice on the list. Keep up the good work on the thread, I have it bookmarked and think it's definitely the best up to date mouse guide out there.

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #159 on: Tue, 26 August 2014, 18:46:58 »
I'm a little on the fence here about something, my Avior 7000 'butt' feels a bit large in my hand when gripping it with fingertip grip, so I was wondering... what other options are there that have the 3310 sensor or similar? I feel a little spoiled here by the 3310, it's just so nice.
another requirement is LIGHTER buttons. the FK1 simply has too hard to press buttons. am I out of luck here or is there any mouse that went a bit under the radar for me? I don't mind like right handed ergonomics as long as the backside doesn't feel too beefy compared to the front. and lighter is better of course.

I don't recall how I felt about the Roccat Kone when fingertip gripping it, but the weight and buttons were nice IMO... unfortunately they no longer sell it here where I live so I can't go try it out again. :(

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 27 August 2014, 03:34:44 »
Just wanted to chime in and say that the Roccat Kone Military does not track on an Steelseries I-2 (icemat v2). However, my Logitech g502 tracks fine on the I-2, even without surface calibration. Kind of a bummer, since I gave up my Ratpadz XT for an I-2 (not going back) and I really liked the ergonomics of the Kone Military. It would also be nice to add any problems with tracking on certain surfaces for mice on the list. Keep up the good work on the thread, I have it bookmarked and think it's definitely the best up to date mouse guide out there.

Thanks for letting us know. And thanks for the support. Gathering information about this kind of thing can be tough. I will try and see what I can do and if it is possible to reliably give an indication of how a mouse/sensor tracks on different surfaces. I am aware of a number of issues like this, mostly on special kind of hardpads. But I am not sure how to incorporate it into the guide.

For now, I think first up is adding DPI range as well as DPI steps for each individual mouse. Additionally, I think dimensions could be helpful as well. I don't think anyone looks at the dimension for a mouse and gets a good idea of how it will feel in their hand, but being able to compare dimensions among mice might be helpful for some people.

Edit: I am also planning to add malfunction speed for each mouse. Though it will take some time for it to be reliable enough for me to include it. It is also dependent on the surface creating another inaccuracy. It will only function to give an indication.

I believe that for most people, modern sensors will pretty much all do the job in terms of the tracking speed they can handle. However, I know there are those who require a mouse that can track at speeds that are far beyond the requirements of most others. For them, I think it is useful if they have an indication which mice will be able to keep up.

Adding perfect control speed would be even better. But that is harder to measure, and therefore harder to find for each individual mice.
« Last Edit: Sat, 30 August 2014, 13:39:37 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline lithony

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #161 on: Sun, 31 August 2014, 21:26:34 »
I am trying to buy M45 or FK1

Which would you recommend?

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #162 on: Sun, 31 August 2014, 22:31:51 »
the M45 is very big in comparison (wide) so personally, I'd go with the FK1 of those two options.

Offline Solo

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #163 on: Tue, 02 September 2014, 23:26:36 »
Just try both and return the one you hate. :)

The M45 is one of the more compelling designs I've seen in awhile.

Offline Novus

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 00:22:58 »
There's also a saying that the 3310  has been corsaired (badly implemented)

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 03 September 2014, 01:13:07 »
There is currently an issue with the way this topic is being displayed. Part of it is cut off, and the 3rd post might appear differently from the ones before it.

Additionally, I can not edit anything in the guide. I will have to wait until this is addressed.

EDIT: It was part of a larger issue that has now been addressed. I plan to add dimensions, DPI and DPI steps available for every mouse in the near future.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 September 2014, 01:16:01 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline 343 Grenadier

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #166 on: Mon, 08 September 2014, 17:46:23 »
Greetings. I'm new to a lot of this so pardon any ignorance on my part. I compiled a sizable list of mice with optical sensors. Basically everything I could find. But that's far from being thorough enough. I hope to make the list better by weeding out optical mice which do indeed have tracking issues, and this very impressive and detailed guide has been very helpful but I know I haven't plucked all the weeds from the garden just yet. I just want to know what options are viable, and which options aren't, to provide as diverse/complete a list of worthwhile options as possible for gamers who want absolute 1:1 precision but also want choices as to ergonomics, max CPI, durability, brand, aesthetics, etc. Thus, I've titled the list "Rev. 1.0" since I plan to narrow it down to just the mice with no acceleration, prediction, pixel walk, or pixel skipping and go into more detail about what the remaining mice have to offer. Obviously there's still LOD and jitter but those are manageable problems with appropriate measures and surfaces, whereas the ones listed usually are not. Rev. 2.0 should have most if not all of the mice with issues eliminated. Alternatively, you could add just any winners to your own list, which is quite detailed when describing specific mice. Either way, the public has a more complete guide to 1:1 gaming mice, so I'm happy.

http://unitdccxxxi.deviantart.com/journal/Optical-Mice-List-Rev-1-0-475927418

Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 10 September 2014, 06:52:29 »
hi guys, i recently purchased an Avior 7000 and would like to share some brief impressions of it after near a week of usage. my previous mouse is a secondhand Deathadder 3G i've been using for 15 months so that's what i'll base my comparison on

- the design/shape: the DA has an ergonomic design, the sides are grooved inwards and the palm rest (i believe this is the correct term) is elevated, providing a very comfortable experience. when i first put my hands on the ambidextrous Avior, it almost felt like culture shock. both the sides and the palm rest are flat, and while i have entirely acclimatized to the new shape, i have to say i still prefer the ergonomic design of the DA which is more comfortable and lets me switch between palm grip and claw grip at will. being ambidextrous, the rightsided side buttons on the Avior is also a pain when you are getting acquainted with the mouse. i put a couple of macros on them to try out in Dota, but i would misspress one of these buttons every 20 seconds so i just went ahead and disabled them. i'm probably still hitting them by accident even now, so these buttons are unusable for me

- weight: the Avior is a bit lighter, i didn't recognize it initially, but if you quickly switch back and forth between them, the difference becomes apparent. i generally prefer lighter mice, but the DA's weight never bothered me whatsoever

- the LMB and RMB buttons: both mice utilize Omron switches so no complaints here whatsoever. the DA makes a more satisfying sound when clicking mouse4 mouse5 buttons, and it feels like they bottom out a bit further down, but i feel those are rather insignificant differences

- side buttons: i prefer the DA's, my English lets me down here but the DA buttons are more 'integrated' into the mouse so to speak. they aren't overtextured and don't stick out like the Avior buttons, and they are glossy coated so the touch feels nicer (the tradeoff being they accumulate dirt and fingerprint much more noticably). as with the LMB and RMB buttons, both mice use Omron switches for their side buttons. i cannot stress how absolutely amazing these switches are, so if for some reason you've never owned a mouse with Omrons you need to get one asap. one last note about the side buttons, the DA's and Avior's lower sidebutton make a muffled sound when press, whereas the Avior's upper side button make a very prominent high pitched click. this inconsistency is something i cannot explain, but it doesn't matter to me as i have headphones on almost 100% of the time

- extra buttons: the Avior has 2 extra DPI-step buttons under the scroll wheel, very useful if you require a separate DPI for each of your game. if not, you can still repurpose them into any function you can think of. huge plus over the DA. once again there is a noise consistency between the upper and lower button, but like i said above it doesn't bother me

- scrollwheel: the scrollwheel on the Avior is placed higher up the mouse compared to the DA's, so for someone with small hands like mine, you will only have control of half the scrollwheel instead of the whole thing, but in practice i find it to to be an irrelevant factor. what does make a huge difference though, is that the DA scroll is much softer and easier to press (mouse3) than the Avior's. this is really emphasized when you're scrolling at highspeed, it is much easier to do so on the DA. if i could take an aspect of the DA and slap it onto the Avior, this would probably be it

- sensor: there isn't much to say here, the 3310 is a winner in every way. i don't know if it was the DAsensor or the fact that the mouse itself was failing, but a lot of my poor plays in Dota could be attributed to my poor mouse movement. with this new sensor, i find myself making much more accurate movements which really upped my game the past couple of days. i'm sure a difference will be even more apparent to someone who uses a monitor with high refresh rate, or play mouse-extensive games like competitive shooters and RTSes.

- software: downloading the Avior software and installing the firmware is quite straightforward, there is very clear instructions on the official website. it was buggy initially but i have no more problems with it as of now. i don't like the Razer equivalent (Synapse) as much, as you need to create an account for it, and the benefit (cloud settings) isn't worth the hassle of making an account for me. but i'm a very lazy person so ymmv. the software provides macro, something the DA doesn't have, very useful for ingame scripts, or simply for creating shortcut combinations you can map onto mouse buttons. there's a surface analyzer which seems to be fairly useless to me (40% surface recognition, maybe it's just telling me to get a better mouse, but i hope it isn't compensating for this in any way). some options like angle snapping and angle tuning i just leave at default, they don't seem to be very beneficial so i just don't bother tinkering with them. pointer speed i increased by a notch (6/10 pointer speed with 2000 DPI, i think it replaces the windows pointer speed), and lift distance is left at default, as i generally don't care for this aspect (maybe you need to reposition the mouse a lot in an FPS, but i don't find it to be the case in Dota where i just edge pan). supports up to 5 profiles along with loads of custom LED effects/colors, pretty fun if you're into that stuff.

- build quality: mouse and cable all seem solid to me, though this isn't something you can ascertain with just less than a week of usage. i do like the fact that it's all matte, it may not feel or look as nice as glossy but it sure as heck is easier to keep clean.

summary: i didn't have a clear outline when i started writing this, just went with whatever popped into my head so let me know if i missed anything. overall i find the Avior to be the superior mouse (functionally speaking), i still wish i could import some design choices from the DA that would increase my enjoyment of the Avior considerably. to me, the 3310 sensor doesn't justify the 80 euros i would have had to shell out for this mouse (direct from official website), early adopter price taken into account. with that in mind, i'd like to give a huge thanks to munch, a fellow GH user, for the opportunity to obtain this mouse at a much more budget price. in any case, this is for sure the best ambidextrous mouse on the market right now (unless i missed out on some new models), so i would definitely recommend it if you can get it for a more reasonable price.

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #168 on: Wed, 10 September 2014, 08:33:01 »
:) I do agree on pretty much most parts, but I'd say the FK1 is on par for those who don't mind the shell / button issue and the scroll wheel maybe!
since it's a bit lighter and many people value that a lot (me included).

thanks for the review! I hope you will continue to enjoy it for a long time.

Offline ajx

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #169 on: Thu, 11 September 2014, 05:27:12 »
Quote
the DA's and Avior's lower sidebutton make a muffled sound when press, whereas the Avior's upper side button make a very prominent high pitched click
Same on mine, it sounds like pretty normal although i had a doubt and watched several reviews on youtube
Damn it, i hate these video reviw, they keep talking and never touch these buttons
you cant hear anything  >:D

Offline whentheclouds

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #170 on: Thu, 11 September 2014, 05:43:41 »
my bad, that should read "the DA's sidebuttons and Avior upper sidebutton.... the Avior lowerside buton"

Offline ajx

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #171 on: Thu, 11 September 2014, 17:33:33 »
Yes the upper side buttons make like you said, a muffled sound while the lowerside side buttons make a crisp and clicky sound
I thought i was a flaw.
I believe they want to make distinct sound between these buttons on purpose, in order to help user to recognize which buttons have been pressed
On G700 which has many side buttons (10), Logitech implanted different stiffness for side buttons, you could in any other way to press accidentally wrong button
I still prefer Logitech idea, i find Avior side buttons too soft, very useful for gaming, a bit annoying for desktop using
due to their softness, i sometime press them accidentally
e.g  currently writing this post, my thumb keeps held on upper side button and sometimes i might press it and eventually going to the previous page  >:D
« Last Edit: Thu, 11 September 2014, 17:39:07 by ajx »

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #172 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 11:59:01 »
Hi,

I am new to this forum and this is my first comment. I don't remember if I've ever registered on any blog/forum before but the collective information in this guide and my enthusiasm as a gamer tempted me to register and join the most updated mouse reviews thread.
Btw, I've been reading a lot of blogs from past week and this was the best one I've seen apart from a few from overclockers.net
I've read each and every comment in this thread till now.

To begin with, I have a 7 year old Intelli 3.0 and 3.5 years old DA 3.5G out of which Intelli is still working with doubleclick issue which wasn't resolved even after opening the whole mouse and cleaning it up properly(just to inform - I'd specially brought a set of screwdrivers along with cleaning sprays/cotton buds etc). DeathAdder was also facing the same issue of doubleclick with the left mouse click. So, I tried to clean that up as well, but unfortunately, I didn't put extra care or maybe it was not a good build that RMB broke from inside and the doubleclick issue with LMB still remains. Along with that the LMB doesn't spray the complete cartridge 30 bullets(while playing cs 1.6) in 1 go when pressed and held, instead, stops and fires 1-2 then stops and again fires and sometimes doesn't fire at all. Sorry for my bad english as English is not my native language(like "zhd")

So, basically I'm looking for a new mouse and want to spend wisely(The cost of a mouse doesn't bother much until its worth it). Unfortunately, we don't have any electronics shop anywhere nearby where I can go and test any of the mice to understand my grip requirement and I'll have to order online(might have to import as well). I live in Delhi, India.

So far, I've understood that Logitech G502's 3366 sensor is a unique of its kind and so, we're left with choosing a comfortable mouse(subjective) with 3310 sensor as of now since G502 as some reported bugs.
I've summarized a list of mice with 3310 sensor.
1. Asus Strix Claw - uses Japanese Omron switches for L-RMB(better than Chinese Omron in terms of durability). It has adjustable LOD.
2.  Corsair M45
3. Mionix Avior 7000
4. Mionix Naos 7000
5. Roccat Kone Pure Military
6. Steelseries Rival
7. Zowie Fk1

The sequence doesn't tell us about the ratings ,however, the first 5, I believe, uses Japanese Omron switches for L-RMB and the rival/fk1 are different.
I felt Intelli was big for my hands and DA was just fine(better grip and movements). I've small hands, so I might try a mouse even smaller than DA, but since I've experienced Omron switches in DA. I would like to have such soft touch for the buttons. Fk1's huano need more force to activate(though it seems fine in every aspect if we're ok with the shell and switch). My best bet would be if I could replace Fk1's switch with Omron even though I've heard Omron switches are not that durable(long lasting) as compared to those in Logitech mice.
and yes, DA has high LOD whereas Intelli hasn't but it can be adjusted with a tape fix and it doesn't bother much on lower dpi's 400-800.

In short, my preferences are similar to "whentheclouds". Munch had been actively providing valuable feedback and thats driving us towards Avior Mionix 7000 (which was materialized by "whentheclouds") apart from the last review about it being too wide from the bottom and v.less from the front.
@whentheclouds, thanks for posting a good long review about mionix avior 7000. After using it, would you suggest it over Kone Pure Military since, I would also prefer DA comfort and design(which is not possible at the moment because of the absence of 3310 sensor).
@Grim Fandango, The Greatest mouse guide till date. Could you please also add other mice having 3310 sensor and omron switches(which are missing from this thread). Thanks!
I'm using Razer Goliathus Alpha Control Edition Mousepad. Can anyone suggest me a mouse compatible for gliding on this mousepad out of these 3310 sensor mice? I know, that would depend on the skates the mouse is using which causes variable static/moving friction of which I've no idea since I cannot try them. I'm sorry if I'm asking too much, but, would really appreciate if you could also answer in short.
Sidebuttons, Stylish looks, extra buttons/lights-colors etc. doesn't matter to me. All I care about is comfort(grip) after coming from DA, controlled movements(which is given by 3310 sensor) and clicks which are easy to reach for tapping/spamming.
After reading all the reviews in this thread, I'm left with choosing between Avior Mionix 7000 and Roccat Kone Pure Military(driven more towards Kone Pure Military). Shall I also look into Asus Strix Claw or Corsair M45 before pulling the trigger on one of these as I'm seeking a more comfortable mouse ? Thanks for reading :D
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 October 2014, 12:16:20 by J.B ? »

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 12:09:49 »
Logitech G402 is another good option, and I think you might like the Kone Pure Military as well.
Naos 7000 is very big, I would not even bother trying that one if you prefer a little bit smaller.

it's hard to get an idea of what kind of grip you like, but if the DeathAdder is your favourite grip, maybe you should do like me and wait for the new Zowie EC-series with 3310 sensors... :P
the Kone Pure Military is not as filling of the hand as the IE3.0/DA are, as it has a curve on the right side too that goes inwards. and G402 is just a slightly different style.

but you also listed a few Ambidextrous mice - have you tried any that you like? they're very different gripping styles.

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #174 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 12:28:20 »
@J.B I did a review and comparison of the FK1 and KPM here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd along with the avior7000, rival, and G502.

If sensor is your #1 priority I'd recommend the KPM. But if the KPM shape is too wrong for you then I'd go with whichever one of the others fits your hand and grip best.

That's not to mention the MLT04 mice though, which are still #1 by a significant margin - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.msg1421432#msg1421432
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #175 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 12:35:02 »
Logitech G402 is another good option, and I think you might like the Kone Pure Military as well.
Naos 7000 is very big, I would not even bother trying that one if you prefer a little bit smaller.

it's hard to get an idea of what kind of grip you like, but if the DeathAdder is your favourite grip, maybe you should do like me and wait for the new Zowie EC-series with 3310 sensors... :P
the Kone Pure Military is not as filling of the hand as the IE3.0/DA are, as it has a curve on the right side too that goes inwards. and G402 is just a slightly different style.

but you also listed a few Ambidextrous mice - have you tried any that you like? they're very different gripping styles.
@munch. Thanks for the quick reply as always :)
I haven't tried any of them but have been reading about them online.
I've heard G400 is better than G402 but I'm looking for 3310 sensor which is not yet available in Logitech mice though I've heard Logitech mice are most durable and also offers a 3 year warranty with good return policy as I've read that they didn't even ask for the old mouse to be returned and still gave an additional new piece when someone complained.
It did strike my head to wait for the Zowie EC series with 3310 sensor(which was previously quoted somewhere on overclockers.net) but don't you think the hunao switch would be a problem unless they implement a softer, maybe, Omron switch for LMB and RMB. Then that could be a perfect mouse w/o any complain as I like everything about Zowie except hard clicks. [DeathAdder clicks(though not being durable) are really an addiction :P]
Also, I would like to know, is Fk1's LMB durable or are there any issues(like doubleclick/lag/skip) reported after a good use ?

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #176 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 13:25:52 »
@J.B I did a review and comparison of the FK1 and KPM here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd along with the avior7000, rival, and G502.

If sensor is your #1 priority I'd recommend the KPM. But if the KPM shape is too wrong for you then I'd go with whichever one of the others fits your hand and grip best.

That's not to mention the MLT04 mice though, which are still #1 by a significant margin - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.msg1421432#msg1421432

Good review. Gives us a little idea about the comfort and grip before using the mice(in case it is not available to try in nearby electronics shop). That was helpful. I also checked your video on Mionix Avior 7000 vs Rival.
I got to the conclusion that both KPM and Mionix 7000 are almost same performance wise out of which KPM loses the grip due to the gap at Right-hand-side(as mentioned by munch as well). Avior seems to have a better grip if we are ok to disable the side buttons. It, however, misses the crown of being perfect because of its imbalanced weight at the bottom. Rival's clicks are a lil-bit of a problem as they are using the switches commonly used for side-buttons in its LMB and RMB, I believe.
Can we have a review on Corsair M45 and Asus Strix Claw in these respects since they also use the same 3310 sensor? Are they able to fill the gap comfort/gripwise ? I'm sorry if I'm off topic from the purpose of this thread.
I know we do have to make compromises based on our priority since the perfect mouse seemingly is not out there but I just wanted to find the best mouse out of available options :D
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 October 2014, 14:07:35 by J.B ? »

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #177 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 14:20:56 »
No, I wouldn't say KPM and Avior are on par sensor performance wise. The KPM is the best 3310 sensor for me. The rest of them are all pretty close.

And I don't think the Avior shape is much better than the KPM. Avior has a forced fingertip grip. And KPM seems to be designed with claw grip in mind. So neither are preferable for palm grip, but if anything I'd probably choose the KPM.

The Asus Strix Claw is way overpriced at $140 + 7.50 shipping: http://www.amazon.com/GX1000-Strix-Optical-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00MI8I0R2

Regarding the corsair, you could just do what I do and test the mouse then return it if you don't like it. I'm holding out for a new sensor.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #178 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 14:43:31 »
@Grim Fandango, The Greatest mouse guide till date. Could you please also add other mice having 3310 sensor and omron switches(which are missing from this thread). Thanks!

Thanks. I have not added or changed anything in the guide for a while because work is crushing me right now. But there are some planned updates.
-Adding new mice
-Adding dimensions to every mouse
-Adding DPI and DPI steps for every mouse

I will probably do so in a few weeks.
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #179 on: Thu, 16 October 2014, 15:07:22 »
The Asus Strix Claw is way overpriced at $140 + 7.50 shipping: http://www.amazon.com/GX1000-Strix-Optical-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00MI8I0R2
Fortunately, it is available at a lower price of Rs 3750(around 58-59 USD) in India :D
Source: http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/asus-launches-strix-series-of-gaming-peripherals-and-accessories-in-india-603768
Although, I'm not sure where to buy this in India as the above source is just a news info :s
Hopefully, I'll be able to find it somewhere soon but I'm still concerned about first choosing the right mouse for my hands :D

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 02:14:01 »
@MaxmillianKohler, how about Ninox Aurora(customized Avago 3090 sensor)? Its out :)
Source: http://ninox.org/shop.html
or shall we wait for a similar shell implementing 3310/3366 sensor which you know would take another 3 years? :P

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #181 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 02:55:15 »
@MaxmillianKohler, how about Ninox Aurora(customized Avago 3090 sensor)? Its out :)
Source: http://ninox.org/shop.html
or shall we wait for a similar shell implementing 3310/3366 sensor which you know would take another 3 years? :P
The shape looks really appealing, but it uses this sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/1440395/avago-3090-4000-dpi-rom-is-not-a-valid-gaming-mouse-sensor-please-release-a-firmware-update-to-save-the-kana-v2/0_50

3366 is overhyped. The KPM felt better.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
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Offline Eszett

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #182 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 03:06:09 »
Why are sensors that important? My list of criteria for a good mouse would be:
- does it work flawless?
- how does it look & feel? (for small hands, big hands)
- durability
- price

By the way, I think most mice are hugely overpriced. I’m using an MX310, which is not too bad. My last MX310 died after about 8 years, and I bought a new one for a reasonable price of about 13 € on eBay from China. I fancy a R.A.T. 7 mainly for the reason, that I hope my hands will have a more comfortable grip on that mouse. But I would never spend a retail price of 90 € or the like.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 October 2014, 03:19:59 by Eszett »

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #183 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 12:41:09 »
Why are sensors that important? My list of criteria for a good mouse would be:
- does it work flawless?
- how does it look & feel? (for small hands, big hands)
- durability
- price

By the way, I think most mice are hugely overpriced. I’m using an MX310, which is not too bad. My last MX310 died after about 8 years, and I bought a new one for a reasonable price of about 13 € on eBay from China. I fancy a R.A.T. 7 mainly for the reason, that I hope my hands will have a more comfortable grip on that mouse. But I would never spend a retail price of 90 € or the like.

I agree that the sensor is not the only part of the mouse that is important when making a decision of which mouse to get. However, since people spend a lot of money on gaming mice because they want something that performs well, it only makes sense to have a closer look at sensor performance and to try and determine which mice really do have a good tracking. That way buyers can make an informed decision and get good value for money when it comes to actual performance. You mention that a mouse should work flawlessly. I would argue that plenty (all) of mice have shortcomings when it comes to tracking that make them less than flawless. Some of these shortcoming are subtle and not an issue to everyone. Others are really problematic and would annoy anyone.

But then of course shape, size, and feel is important too. The idea with this list is to just give people an overview of mice they can pick from if they would want to avoid acceleration and prediction. Since the mice on the list are quite different in shape, size and so on, hopefully people will be able to find something on the list that works for them. Personally I also did not go with the mouse that has the absolute best sensor. Instead, I went with the mouse that had a sensor that did not have any shortcomings that would frustrate me, and works well for me due to the shape/weight/coating of the mouse.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 October 2014, 17:43:58 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline J.B ?

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #184 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:15:04 »
The KPM felt better.

Exhausted, I pulled the trigger on KPM :)
I was more tempted towards Ninox Aurora since that was out after a lot of personal hard work from the maker(you know who)
Everything seems to be good.
Omron switches with the perfect shells(as described in esreality forums)
Size, shape and weight - pretty decent
Since, it took almost 3 years for it to be developed which was started with Avago 3090 sensor and is finally made with the same.
I couldn't wait for this mouse to come out with 3310 sensor and so, KPM was my final choice.
I'll wait for it to arrive(no ETA provided). If it doesn't feel comfortable. I might have to switch to Ninox Aurora or Zowie Fk1 compromising with either the sensor or the click-switches respectively :D
I'll post my reviews about KPM after a good use :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 October 2014, 13:20:28 by J.B ? »

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #185 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 20:15:59 »
nice! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I do like the mouse a lot, just need something with less of an indentation on the right side for my preferred grip.

Offline HotKillerZzz

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 19 October 2014, 21:00:47 »
Anyone tried the logitech G502?
Seems appealing to me but I would like to know what it is like from someone who has used it.

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #187 on: Mon, 20 October 2014, 07:09:46 »
Anyone tried the logitech G502?
Seems appealing to me but I would like to know what it is like from someone who has used it.


Sensor is overhyped. The 3310 sensors have "intelligent surface calibration" too. The KPM sensor felt better in my experience.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline tyvar1

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #188 on: Wed, 22 October 2014, 10:34:35 »
Could anyone recommend me a good Bluetooth mouse for android?  :thumb:

Offline singaporean123

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #189 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 08:17:50 »
I'm big on MMOs, WoW in particular.

Are there good mouse for that? my g600 has finally succumbed to the double click issue.

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #190 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 08:57:47 »
I'm big on MMOs, WoW in particular.

Are there good mouse for that? my g600 has finally succumbed to the double click issue.

You don't need a gaming mouse for that type of game. You can buy any mouse that fits your weight, shape, grip, buttons criteria.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline munch

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #191 on: Thu, 23 October 2014, 12:12:18 »
maybe not need but it's still nice to have a good one. he might play different games too sometimes!

if you like the G600, and all those crazy buttons it has, I'm not sure you'll have a lot of options though.

we'll need a bit more to work with I think.

Offline swiftblade13

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #192 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 09:35:52 »
I currently own a RAT 3 and while it fits my hand perfectly I'm needing a second mouse for my desktop. I was wondering if any of the mice on the list have a similar ergonomic feel?
 I'm liking the sensor but my 1440p monitor means I'm using it on max dpi(fingertip grip).
At this point I'm thinking of just buying another rat3 (in white).
Should I?

Offline Bucake

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #193 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 11:08:05 »
g502 overhyped? why, just because it didn't feel good to you?
have you seen all the reviews and, more importantly, all the tests done?
hype is hype, so you can just ignore that. but the tests speak for the sensor, and the 3366 is currently unmatched.
i don't use the g502, but certainly not because of the sensor.
IBM Model F XT // Realforce 87U 55g Type-S // HHKBP2 45g Type-S // KBT Pure Pro Cherry MX Red

Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #194 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 11:55:16 »
g502 overhyped? why, just because it didn't feel good to you?
have you seen all the reviews and, more importantly, all the tests done?
hype is hype, so you can just ignore that. but the tests speak for the sensor, and the 3366 is currently unmatched.
i don't use the g502, but certainly not because of the sensor.

There are no tests that detect all the artificial processing that manufacturers have been doing to their mice. There is a very obvious difference though if you test the mouse along with the reigning champion of "rawness, highest fidelity, most analog" - the MLT04 - in a well coded game like CS 1.6.

The vast majority of reviews I've seen are complete fluff. Hype is also meaningless. There was tremendous hype about the 3090. People exclaiming it was a "perfect sensor". Now we know it is FAR from such.

But also we have to take into account the firmware and other alterations that each manufacturer does to the sensor. For example, the Kone Pure Military's implementation of the 3310 feels significantly better than the other 3310 mice, and even better than the 3366.
High-level, competitive CS 1.6 player.
My reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Offline Oobly

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #195 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 05:05:11 »
I'm big on MMOs, WoW in particular.

Are there good mouse for that? my g600 has finally succumbed to the double click issue.

I made a thread about a new MMO mouse which is really nice if you like lightweight mice: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65228.0

I currently own a RAT 3 and while it fits my hand perfectly I'm needing a second mouse for my desktop. I was wondering if any of the mice on the list have a similar ergonomic feel?
 I'm liking the sensor but my 1440p monitor means I'm using it on max dpi(fingertip grip).
At this point I'm thinking of just buying another rat3 (in white).
Should I?


I did just that a little while ago and while I am very happy with my white optical RAT 3, I would rather get the new Tournament Edition. Still lightweight, still comfortable, but it has two big improvements. The sensor is a big upgrade, very accurate, tracks well and goes up to 8200DPI without problem. It also has an extra thumb button which you can use to switch DPI while it's pressed. Very nice for large desktops where you want to be able to switch between moving quickly and moving precisely, or in FPS games as a "sniper" mode.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline swiftblade13

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #196 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 11:19:36 »

I did just that a little while ago and while I am very happy with my white optical RAT 3, I would rather get the new Tournament Edition. Still lightweight, still comfortable, but it has two big improvements. The sensor is a big upgrade, very accurate, tracks well and goes up to 8200DPI without problem. It also has an extra thumb button which you can use to switch DPI while it's pressed. Very nice for large desktops where you want to be able to switch between moving quickly and moving precisely, or in FPS games as a "sniper" mode.
isn't that sensor a laser sensor?
plus I'm REALLY not a fan of those colors...

has anyone used the G302 Daedalus Prime? 
I'm hoping it has the g402's sensor without being quite so LONG.


Offline Oobly

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #197 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 13:35:08 »

I did just that a little while ago and while I am very happy with my white optical RAT 3, I would rather get the new Tournament Edition. Still lightweight, still comfortable, but it has two big improvements. The sensor is a big upgrade, very accurate, tracks well and goes up to 8200DPI without problem. It also has an extra thumb button which you can use to switch DPI while it's pressed. Very nice for large desktops where you want to be able to switch between moving quickly and moving precisely, or in FPS games as a "sniper" mode.
isn't that sensor a laser sensor?
plus I'm REALLY not a fan of those colors...

has anyone used the G302 Daedalus Prime? 
I'm hoping it has the g402's sensor without being quite so LONG.

New generation Philips laser doppler sensor. They seem to have fixed the issues of the previous versions and it tracks beautifully all the way up to 8200DPI. You can adjust the lift off distance all the way down to 0.2mm.

Have you seen all the colour options? It comes in Blue, Red, White and Black versions.

Do yourself a favour and read some reviews. If you want more buttons, there's also the MMO version :)

After getting my first RAT 3 I haven't really paid much attention to other designs, since it fits my hand so well and is nice and light.

Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Shatlord

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #198 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 17:58:13 »
Anyone tried the logitech G502?
Seems appealing to me but I would like to know what it is like from someone who has used it.
Show Image


Its a decent mouse. I came off a g9 g9x, so logitech fan:P
Some problems with it are, peeling feet, you can get some better ones off ebay apparently which are linked in the logitech forum thread.  This only matters if you have a cloth pad apparently, i use bare table and mouse skate tape so it was never going to affect me.
The wheel is stiff, but then again i never use it outside spin mode in desktop, and the stiffness prevents accidental weapon switch in games.  It has nice stiff and clear actuation for both the button press and tilt button press for the wheel, but i'd still judge the g9x wheel as superior.  But the wheel shift to spin is now on top, which kind of makes it less of a problem to begin with, nothing was more hateful than having to flip over my mouse when starting a game so i wouldn't accidentally spin the wheel in the game, many times i wouldn't notice until the oopsie moment in a shooter.
The weight and feel of the mouse is very good, i can't complain, the clicks are all clear and solid.  This is where the g9 series fell down, to have that replacable hand grip feature the thumb buttons were part of the removable hand grip, which meant they were buttons pressing on buttons, which lead to a muddy feeling activation.  Now with this mouse its clear i press the thumb button, no mushy activation.
And the sensor, cant complain, it works, no negative or positive acceleration, tracks on non mouse mat surfaces like my semi gloss desk just fine.
What I miss are the rgb color indicators on the g9, i don't know why they went with just blue now. It helped with the auto profile switching in the driver where different mouse setups would automatically apply for different software, now it just blinks to tell you its switched.
It does have a dimming and inactivity dimming feature and a pulsing feature though, so the out of the box the blinding blue can be toned down.
Its a great mouse with flaws.
But that's how these things always are,  I'm pretty sure these companies never come out with the "perfect" mouse, so they can always have a new one every few years;)

Offline ntstnc

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Re: Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
« Reply #199 on: Mon, 08 December 2014, 03:45:26 »
I think I am gonna go with the mionix naos 7000 which seems to be the only mouse with decent ergonomics with no accel and that is not on the list and you should add it :p