Focus FK-3001

[Mattr567]

The wiki on this one is empty, never seen it before. Its as if a FK 8000 and a 2001 had a baby: A 2001 w/ a calculator.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262322968204

[jacobolus]

The Deskthority wiki isn’t completely empty:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-3001

It’s come up a few times before:
https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%22fk%2D3001%22%20(site%3Ageekhack.org%20OR%20site%3Adeskthority.net)

[chyros]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

[bocahgundul]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?

[ander]

It's in the auction page linked to above.

[chyros]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?

Yeah it's this one . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.

[Vanilla]

I've bought 1 of these before, 2 of the non-solar celled versions, and 2 of its smaller 2001 little brothers. Every single one of them did not work. On one of my 3001's only the calculator works.

The build quality of these focus boards are mediocre.

[Mattr567]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?

Yeah it's this one . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.

This would be a fun pickup then.

[chyros]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?

Yeah it's this one . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.

This would be a fun pickup then.

It doesn't work though xD . Plus, it's not cheap.

[khronokrator]

It's a nice board, but I'm currently only interested in 5001/9000s right now, which are a little hard to find (to say nothing of being in working condition).

There's also a FK-8000 up for sale on eBay right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focus-FK-8000-Clicky-Keyboard-with-calculator-AT-Connection-Full-Size-HIGH-QLTY-/172127072854?

It seems to be in nice condition, but again... I'm holding out for the top-of-the-line Focus battleships with real Alps. 

[Mattr567]

The solar cell version of this model is super rare, although this one apparently doesn't work.

Can I see pic of this "solar cell version"?

Yeah it's this one . Notice the little black strip under the LCD screen? Normal battery-driven 3001s don't have that. Strangely, this solar-cell model appears to have batteries as well, and different ones from the 3001/8000/9000 too. I nearly managed to snag one of these solar models half a year or so ago from a surplus website but missed it. I've only seen evidence of three or so of these in total, including this one.

This would be a fun pickup then.

It doesn't work though xD . Plus, it's not cheap.

Still a cool pickup nonetheless. Cheaper price agreed though. I bet someone could fix it. Not many will have a solar powered (kinda) Alps board!

[Fullcream]

I bought one of these about a year ago for $23 AUD.

It had blue Alps.

[chyros]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

[Mattr567]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

[chyros]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

[Mattr567]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

[chyros]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

[Mattr567]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

Got it, time to celebrate!

Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.

[chyros]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

Got it, time to celebrate!

Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.

Cool, let us know what you find .

[Mattr567]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

Got it, time to celebrate!

Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.

Cool, let us know what you find .

Will do. The serial number on the back in the pic's seems really different from the ones ive seen and the one on you FK-2002. Its a missing a whole numeral. I wonder when these were made, similar to the FK-2002's timeline? The FK-8000 is much more common, maybe a replacement?

[chyros]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

Got it, time to celebrate!

Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.

Cool, let us know what you find .

Will do. The serial number on the back in the pic's seems really different from the ones ive seen and the one on you FK-2002. Its a missing a whole numeral. I wonder when these were made, similar to the FK-2002's timeline? The FK-8000 is much more common, maybe a replacement?

The FK-8000 is the 2nd-gen successor of the FK-3001. It was in turn succeeded by the 3rd-gen FK-8200.

[Mattr567]

Damn, that sure as hell needs wikification xD .

Wow yea. It was relisted for cheaper so I think ill pick up the 3001 and fix it up.

Yeah go for it, it's not a lot for a white Alps keyboard with this many switches and doubleshot keycaps. Even if the calc is absolutely shot.

And its made in Taiwan. So better build quality and almost guaranteed SKCM Whites since its early.

If you look closely you can see slits and tabs on it, so yeah, should be SKCM White.

Got it, time to celebrate!

Will be completely restoring this one, full cleanup + retrobright etc and getting the calculator back up and running. From the pics that battery didn't leak so thank god for that. Otherwise I will replace the liquid crystal display and stuff like that, there are very few fully working calculator FK's, and I want this one to work being so rare. The wiki on it will soon not be so bare. There seems to be a great deal of mystery on this board.

Cool, let us know what you find .

Will do. The serial number on the back in the pic's seems really different from the ones ive seen and the one on you FK-2002. Its a missing a whole numeral. I wonder when these were made, similar to the FK-2002's timeline? The FK-8000 is much more common, maybe a replacement?

The FK-8000 is the 2nd-gen successor of the FK-3001. It was in turn succeeded by the 3rd-gen FK-8200.

Thanks for the info, this will be great for the wiki. So it seems it was similar to the FK-2002's timeline. First they laucned the FK-555, then launched with the 2001, 3001, and 2002 in 1988, and soon dropped SKCM Blue, then  later dropped the 2002 and 3001 and kept making changes to the 2001. The 5001 and 2000 Plus came in 1990 while bringing in the 8000 in 1991. Finally the 9001 in '92. Cool 

Wonder where mine fits in, seems to be between '88 and '91. Fullcreams w/ SKCM Blue must be between '88 and '89ish.

[chyros]

*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:

0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200

Rough succession line:

2001   ->   6000   ->   6200
2001   ->   2001   ->   2001
7000P ->   7200
5001   ->   9000   ->   9200

0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.

Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .

[Mattr567]

*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:

0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200

Rough succession line:

2001   ->   6000   ->   6200
2001   ->   2001   ->   2001
7000P ->   7200
5001   ->   9000   ->   9200

0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.

Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .

Damn, you got it down my friend. Yea, thats the way everything went, a slow decline in quality. Nice I got a rare 1st gen with the common (but still great) SKCM White. All I need now is a dust cover for my 3001, maybe ebay has some. When did they switch to China?

[chyros]

*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:

0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200

Rough succession line:

2001   ->   6000   ->   6200
2001   ->   2001   ->   2001
7000P ->   7200
5001   ->   9000   ->   9200

0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.

Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .

Damn, you got it down my friend. Yea, thats the way everything went, a slow decline in quality. Nice I got a rare 1st gen with the common (but still great) SKCM White. All I need now is a dust cover for my 3001, maybe ebay has some. When did they switch to China?

The China plant is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears they started off at the Taiwan ROC plant which also made all the Omnikeys - the "missing link" Northgate FK-555 pretty much sealed together all the other evidence on that. The China plant seems to have been separate, but kept using genuine white Alps until much later than other plants. Alps switch production and keyboard assembly is all but a complete mystery at this point though, we've been trying to piece it together in a discussion on DT but we haven't much much at all so far.

[khronokrator]

Yeah, it's all very interesting if you have a historian's mindset. What's curious is that the FK-8000 and FK-9000 seem to have been contemporaneous, yet the 9000 seems to have generally shipped with authentic bamboo SKCM White Alps, whereas the 8000 used clones. Possibly assembled at different factories?

Likewise, the 5001 also seems to have come with SKCMs, not SKBMs or clones, despite being possibly one of the latter generations. It's very weird.

[chyros]

Yeah, it's all very interesting if you have a historian's mindset. What's curious is that the FK-8000 and FK-9000 seem to have been contemporaneous, yet the 9000 seems to have generally shipped with authentic bamboo SKCM White Alps, whereas the 8000 used clones.

Negatory, many many 9000s used clones! Or sometimes even clones and genuine Alps at the same time, though that went for the 8000 as well.

Focus definitely used what was lying around. Engicoder has an FK-8000 from '92 with Futabas that actually uses GENUINE GREEN ALPS for the lock light switches. Those greens aren't from the 90s or even the late 80s though as they're the grey switchplate version, so they're probably '85-'88.

[khronokrator]

Well, that's unfortunate. I just grabbed an FK-9000 off eBay for a decent price on the premise it had SKCMs (since the one cap the seller had pulled clearly showed bamboo switches).

If it's a hodgepodge I'll be greatly disappointed. 

[Mattr567]

Well, that's unfortunate. I just grabbed an FK-9000 off eBay for a decent price on the premise it had SKCMs (since the one cap the seller had pulled clearly showed bamboo switches).

If it's a hodgepodge I'll be greatly disappointed. 

Good luck my friend.

*many quotes*
I'm somewhat of a Focus nut so I've looked into quite a lot of Focus keyboards. Here's the generations I've divided them into so far:

0th gen (we don't know exactly when these were, just that they were before the others):
555, 747
1st gen:
1001, 2000plus, 2001, 2002, 3001, 5001
2nd gen:
6000, 7000P, 8000, 9000
3rd gen:
6200, 7200, 8200, 9200

Rough succession line:

2001   ->   6000   ->   6200
2001   ->   2001   ->   2001
7000P ->   7200
5001   ->   9000   ->   9200

0th gen are all blue Alps and occasionally cyan Omnoms. 1st gen were originally blue Alps but went through to white Alps which most of them are. 2nd gen came with white Alps originally but after that clones and even occasionally completely different switch types like Futabas. 3rd gen are Focus dome with slider. The FK-2001 appears to have transcended way past its own generation and bled into the 2nd and probably even the 3rd generation, probably as a "classic" model, a bit like Unicomp's Ultra Classic Model M which runs alongside their current one. By that time it had gone from a 101-key AT/XT keyboard with genuine Alps switches, doubleshot keycaps and a built-in dust cover to a 104-key PS/2 keyboard with some fairly vile clones, partially pad-printed keycaps and they left out the dust cover as well - a major decline of such an awesome keyboard.

Of course there are many gaps in my knowledge as well, but this is what I've found so far. The one who knows most about Focus is probably Engicoder, he has even more than I do xD .

Damn, you got it down my friend. Yea, thats the way everything went, a slow decline in quality. Nice I got a rare 1st gen with the common (but still great) SKCM White. All I need now is a dust cover for my 3001, maybe ebay has some. When did they switch to China?

The China plant is a bit of a mystery to me. It appears they started off at the Taiwan ROC plant which also made all the Omnikeys - the "missing link" Northgate FK-555 pretty much sealed together all the other evidence on that. The China plant seems to have been separate, but kept using genuine white Alps until much later than other plants. Alps switch production and keyboard assembly is all but a complete mystery at this point though, we've been trying to piece it together in a discussion on DT but we haven't much much at all so far.

Interesting. Every corner you take with Alps leads to another mystery!

[khronokrator]

Good luck my friend.

Thank you, good sir. It appears my fears were unfounded... sort of?

It came in today, and while I haven't completely removed all of the caps, I removed the keycaps from a random number of switches across the keyboard and they all seem to be 'genuine' bamboo White Alps. Weirdly, the F switches in the top row feel different and seem to be an upside-down logo variant of bamboo Alps I've never seen before, which makes me suspect they might be clones.

But really, none of the supposed bamboo Alps on this keyboard feel anything like the switches on my Silitek, which was basically NIB when I got it. The Silitek's have a completely different sound and much richer tactile feedback, whereas the switches on the Focus just have a simple bump and click that reminds me a lot of Matias switches... yet they appear to be the same. Wear and tear, or just clever clones?

I need Chyros' expertise on this. 

[jacobolus]

Take a picture of a disassembled switch and someone can tell you what it is.

[Mattr567]

Good luck my friend.

Thank you, good sir. It appears my fears were unfounded... sort of?

It came in today, and while I haven't completely removed all of the caps, I removed the keycaps from a random number of switches across the keyboard and they all seem to be 'genuine' bamboo White Alps. Weirdly, the F switches in the top row feel different and seem to be an upside-down logo variant of bamboo Alps I've never seen before, which makes me suspect they might be clones.

But really, none of the supposed bamboo Alps on this keyboard feel anything like the switches on my Silitek, which was basically NIB when I got it. The Silitek's have a completely different sound and much richer tactile feedback, whereas the switches on the Focus just have a simple bump and click that reminds me a lot of Matias switches... yet they appear to be the same. Wear and tear, or just clever clones?

I need Chyros' expertise on this. 

The upside down logo means the switch is soldered in upside down! The PCB must have them the other way around for the top tow. Pretty sure they are legit but post a picture! They probably need to be cleaned.

[khronokrator]

It's weird. They feel absolutely fine, no grittiness or stickiness whatsoever, like you'd typically associate with dirty Alps. Just not nearly as good as some of my other SKCMs.





Obviously it needs a good cleaning, though I don't have such great luck with switch disassembly/reassembly. 

Still, the thing is ridiculously interesting, like all weird Focus boards are.

Edit: Suppose it's really academic at this point. I finally got around to testing this thing aaaand... the calculator works perfectly, but the keyboard itself does not. No keys register. So, basically the same problem that most of the rest of the internet has with these boards.

[Mattr567]

It's weird. They feel absolutely fine, no grittiness or stickiness whatsoever, like you'd typically associate with dirty Alps. Just not nearly as good as some of my other SKCMs.

Show Image

Show Image

Obviously it needs a good cleaning, though I don't have such great luck with switch disassembly/reassembly. 

Still, the thing is ridiculously interesting, like all weird Focus boards are.

Edit: Suppose it's really academic at this point. I finally got around to testing this thing aaaand... the calculator works perfectly, but the keyboard itself does not. No keys register. So, basically the same problem that most of the rest of the internet has with these boards.

Huh, wonder what would be wrong with it, normally the board always works but the calculator doesn't.

Yeah, it's all very interesting if you have a historian's mindset. What's curious is that the FK-8000 and FK-9000 seem to have been contemporaneous, yet the 9000 seems to have generally shipped with authentic bamboo SKCM White Alps, whereas the 8000 used clones.

Negatory, many many 9000s used clones! Or sometimes even clones and genuine Alps at the same time, though that went for the 8000 as well.

Focus definitely used what was lying around. Engicoder has an FK-8000 from '92 with Futabas that actually uses GENUINE GREEN ALPS for the lock light switches. Those greens aren't from the 90s or even the late 80s though as they're the grey switchplate version, so they're probably '85-'88.

Hey, found another solar panel one on ebay, just our luck to find another! The seller is asking too much though and won't pull a cap, but says its some type of white alps. Its not new, and the calculator also doesn't work. Not really better than the other but if someone wants one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/152033948974 Cleaner though.

[khronokrator]

I think Chyros had a similar problem a while back. In this board, the calculator works fine and the display is perfect, but the rest of the keyboard isn't sending any scan codes.

If I use a second keyboard and press the Caps/Num/Scroll lock keys, the lock lights do light up on the 9000. But there's no response from anything else when in KB mode, though, so... sigh. 

Does it actually need a battery for the keyboard itself to work? Seems unlikely, but it's all I have. The seller did note that the original was removed because it had started to leak and corrode the housing...

I'm really getting sick of DOA keyboards.

[Mattr567]

I think Chyros had a similar problem a while back. In this board, the calculator works fine and the display is perfect, but the rest of the keyboard isn't sending any scan codes.

If I use a second keyboard and press the Caps/Num/Scroll lock keys, the lock lights do light up on the 9000. But there's no response from anything else when in KB mode, though, so... sigh. 

Does it actually need a battery for the keyboard itself to work? Seems unlikely, but it's all I have. The seller did note that the original was removed because it had started to leak and corrode the housing...

I'm really getting sick of DOA keyboards.

Sorry man

What does the PCB look like? Its there any bad capacitors? Anything on the electronics at all? That is the cause of your problem, its very unlikely all of the switches are bad.

[khronokrator]

The PCB is really hard to get at because the case is clamped together (which I hate) and the calculator's display is directly attached to the top plastic shell.

I'll give it a look, but I have zero knowledge of electrical stuff.

[Mattr567]

The PCB is really hard to get at because the case is clamped together (which I hate) and the calculator's display is directly attached to the top plastic shell.

I'll give it a look, but I have zero knowledge of electrical stuff.

Otherwise there is no hope of getting it going. When you get all the clamps off, just lift the top off a bit and disconnect the display. Ill have to be doing this soon when my 3001 arrives tomorrow Look for anything damaged PCB traces or blown/leaking capacitors. Post some pics as well.

[khronokrator]

You're right, of course. Pics forthcoming:









Only obvious signs of problems are the dried battery acid where the battery normally sits, to my untrained eyes at least.

One thing you can't see in these pictures is that the PCB itself is actually bent around the calculator area to a slight but alarming degree:

[Mattr567]

You're right, of course. Pics forthcoming:

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Only obvious signs of problems are the dried battery acid where the battery normally sits, to my untrained eyes at least.

One thing you can't see in these pictures is that the PCB itself is actually bent around the calculator area to a slight but alarming degree:

Show Image

Looks ok to me, can't see any obvious flaws other than the bent PCB 0.0

What you could do is check for any bad looking solder joints. If they all look ok try reflowing all the solder joints anyway, things might have gone bad since the PCB is bent. Also is it in AT mode? If so move the switch back and forth a bit. I'm not sure on other settings of that board but make sure everything is set up correctly with the dip switches.

[khronokrator]

I don't think the FK-9000 has DIP switches, unfortunately. The solder joints look and feel pretty good, it just seems that something's wrong with the logic or circuitry somewhere. Seems to be a pretty common problem with these calculator keyboards; Focus' fairly cheap build quality really shows up here. Disappointing, because this keyboard has a lot of charm and I was looking forward to using it.

[jacobolus]

It's weird. They feel absolutely fine, no grittiness or stickiness whatsoever, like you'd typically associate with dirty Alps. Just not nearly as good as some of my other SKCMs.

It is probably an SKCM switch, but that doesn’t look quite like the “pine” SKCM top housing numbering I’ve seen before. It might well be a “bamboo” era switch with a slightly misleading top. In any event, it’s one of the later switches, more like 1993 than 1990. (The chips in your pictures are numbered to indicate they were produced sometime in 1992.)

Edit: Cf. https://deskthority.net/post147137.html#p147137 and scroll down a bit for a pic of a switch that looks like yours

[Mattr567]

I don't think the FK-9000 has DIP switches, unfortunately. The solder joints look and feel pretty good, it just seems that something's wrong with the logic or circuitry somewhere. Seems to be a pretty common problem with these calculator keyboards; Focus' fairly cheap build quality really shows up here. Disappointing, because this keyboard has a lot of charm and I was looking forward to using it.

Uhh, you took a picture of one.

[khronokrator]

That's not a DIP switch, it's the XT/AT switch.

If I'm using incorrect terminology, my bad. Moving it X number of times has no effect whatsoever, though.

[jacobolus]

A DIP switch, per se, looks something like this:


The switch on the keyboard is, generically, a slide switch, but isn’t a DIP switch.

[Mattr567]

That's not a DIP switch, it's the XT/AT switch.

If I'm using incorrect terminology, my bad. Moving it X number of times has no effect whatsoever, though.

Oh, well that's what I meant 

Anyway it seems 9000's particularly are very unreliable. Chyros has one that does the same exact thing, and a YouTube video shows another one again having the same exact issue.

Here is Chyros's thread https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69376.0

[chyros]

I see my name being called out a couple of times, here I am xD .

There is a simple answer to why you're preferring the new Silitek Alps ones to the SKCM whites; the conditions aren't comparable . SKCM White should in fact feel much more tactile and defined than SKCM black. Your version is pine btw, not bamboo (the blacks will be bamboo). Even if you think you can't tell they feel dirty, when an Alps board looks like that, it doesn't feel the same; I know this all too well. Your SKCM whites are dirty!

An AT/XT switch I think may be a kind of DIP switch. Focus also used DIP switches on some boards to set the protocol, and most boards include a cutout under the badge, at the rear, or under one of the feet for one, even if it doesn't use it.

Note that your SKCM whites are actually from a different batch than other Alps switches are, they're from the hand-written one. I have an NTC (probably made by the same people in the same plant) with the same style of switches. Because those are quite badly used I can't rule out that they feel different compared to other Alps switches, but frankly I really see no reason why it should. The upside-down ones are almost certainly soldered in the other way around; some other Focus boards do this too. That said, I think these hand-written ones could come with the writing upside down too.

As for the batteries; yes, actually it will probably need them. The FK-9000 doesn't work without batteries because of a rather silly power routing design issue - I accidentally scrapped a 9000 that I thought was unsalvageable, this way. It's very possible the 3001 needs them as well. Make sure to clean the acid off the terminals and then replace them with some fresh batteries of the same specs.

The other 3001 already went btw xD .

[khronokrator]

Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? 

Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.

[chyros]

Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? 

Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.

That's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal .

It looks like a standard size battery, but they're probably nicads rather than metal hydride batteries. Those aren't made in the western world anymore, but I managed to import some replacement nicads for another Focus board I own from China. Takes ages to arrive, but worked in the end . If you have a battery with the appropriate voltage you can jury rig the terminals of the battery to those of the calculator (make sure you connect the right ends!) and then see if that makes the keyboard work. If it does, order some proper batteries from China, that's how I did it.

I have a project tangent to this in the works, about which I'll be making a full report at some point in the future .

[Mattr567]

Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? 

Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.

That's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal .

It looks like a standard size battery, but they're probably nicads rather than metal hydride batteries. Those aren't made in the western world anymore, but I managed to import some replacement nicads for another Focus board I own from China. Takes ages to arrive, but worked in the end . If you have a battery with the appropriate voltage you can jury rig the terminals of the battery to those of the calculator (make sure you connect the right ends!) and then see if that makes the keyboard work. If it does, order some proper batteries from China, that's how I did it.

I have a project tangent to this in the works, about which I'll be making a full report at some point in the future .

Do they have to be nicad?

I see my name being called out a couple of times, here I am xD .

There is a simple answer to why you're preferring the new Silitek Alps ones to the SKCM whites; the conditions aren't comparable . SKCM White should in fact feel much more tactile and defined than SKCM black. Your version is pine btw, not bamboo (the blacks will be bamboo). Even if you think you can't tell they feel dirty, when an Alps board looks like that, it doesn't feel the same; I know this all too well. Your SKCM whites are dirty!

An AT/XT switch I think may be a kind of DIP switch. Focus also used DIP switches on some boards to set the protocol, and most boards include a cutout under the badge, at the rear, or under one of the feet for one, even if it doesn't use it.

Note that your SKCM whites are actually from a different batch than other Alps switches are, they're from the hand-written one. I have an NTC (probably made by the same people in the same plant) with the same style of switches. Because those are quite badly used I can't rule out that they feel different compared to other Alps switches, but frankly I really see no reason why it should. The upside-down ones are almost certainly soldered in the other way around; some other Focus boards do this too. That said, I think these hand-written ones could come with the writing upside down too.

As for the batteries; yes, actually it will probably need them. The FK-9000 doesn't work without batteries because of a rather silly power routing design issue - I accidentally scrapped a 9000 that I thought was unsalvageable, this way. It's very possible the 3001 needs them as well. Make sure to clean the acid off the terminals and then replace them with some fresh batteries of the same specs.

The other 3001 already went btw xD .

Yea saw that. I'll test out the battery theory for sure. Maybe that's why the solar version also has a battery, they didn't want to make a different pcb for it.

[khronokrator]

Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366

[chyros]

Hey Chyros, it turns out one of the terminals on my board was so corroded that one of the wires simply broke off at the slightest application of pressure while I was taking the board apart. Can it be resoldered, or am I SOL? 

Ah man, it'll take a while to get one of those batteries, too.

That's pretty normal. The wires the terminals are connected by are pretty flimsy anyway. Focus cases are pretty hard to open (you need to SLIDE rather than pull) and there's not a lot of slack on them so they often come off immediately. Of course you can resolder them, it's just metal to metal .

It looks like a standard size battery, but they're probably nicads rather than metal hydride batteries. Those aren't made in the western world anymore, but I managed to import some replacement nicads for another Focus board I own from China. Takes ages to arrive, but worked in the end . If you have a battery with the appropriate voltage you can jury rig the terminals of the battery to those of the calculator (make sure you connect the right ends!) and then see if that makes the keyboard work. If it does, order some proper batteries from China, that's how I did it.

I have a project tangent to this in the works, about which I'll be making a full report at some point in the future .

Do they have to be nicad?

Well with the battery I had I found that the batteries of that voltage and charge were much smaller so they didn't fit the enclosure properly, while the ones that were of the same size were much more powerful.

[Mattr567]

Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366

Wonder the same.

[chyros]

Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366

Wonder the same.

That's a 9000 battery. Don't know if it will work with the 3001 as well.

[khronokrator]

Yeah, I just bought something identical to that eBay page off Amazon before I left for work this morning. Hope it works.

[Mattr567]

Would something like this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170631214366

Wonder the same.

That's a 9000 battery. Don't know if it will work with the 3001 as well.

I'll check the one in it when I get back. It was delivered! Can't wait to get home.

[engicoder]

My 3001 uses a few non rechargable 357/LR44 coin cells that are commonly used in calculators and some watches. Much nicer than that Varta monstrosity in the 9000.

[Mattr567]

IT ****ING WORKS, ALL OF IT

The calculator works, and so does the keyboard! The numbers look a bit screwed up on the screen but that can be fixed. Also does the solar panel! The battery must be shot since, when I take it in the sunlight the calculator lights up!!!

The only weird thing is that print screen activates shift and *, and the pause key activates ctrl and numlock 0.0 Maybe the PCB needs some cleaning. Its quite dirty. Or maybe its my USB converter.

[khronokrator]

IT ****ING WORKS, ALL OF IT

The calculator works, and so does the keyboard! The numbers look a bit screwed up on the screen but that can be fixed. Also does the solar panel! The battery must be shot since, when I take it in the sunlight the calculator lights up!!!

The only weird thing is that print screen activates shift and *, and the pause key activates ctrl and numlock 0.0 Maybe the PCB needs some cleaning. Its quite dirty. Or maybe its my USB converter.

Congratulations, my friend! Glad to hear that yours is actually working. As I've said, I agree with Chryos that these weird Focus keyboards are endlessly fascinating.

As for my own FK-9000, my soldering skills are fairly abysmal and I think I botched the resoldering of the left wire to the terminal. If it works at all when the battery arrives, it'll frankly be a minor miracle.

[Mattr567]

IT ****ING WORKS, ALL OF IT

The calculator works, and so does the keyboard! The numbers look a bit screwed up on the screen but that can be fixed. Also does the solar panel! The battery must be shot since, when I take it in the sunlight the calculator lights up!!!

The only weird thing is that print screen activates shift and *, and the pause key activates ctrl and numlock 0.0 Maybe the PCB needs some cleaning. Its quite dirty. Or maybe its my USB converter.

Congratulations, my friend! Glad to hear that yours is actually working. As I've said, I agree with Chryos that these weird Focus keyboards are endlessly fascinating.

As for my own FK-9000, my soldering skills are fairly abysmal and I think I botched the resoldering of the left wire to the terminal. If it works at all when the battery arrives, it'll frankly be a minor miracle.

Well, I am typing to you on it now, completely cleaned up, and it works great! The FK-3001 is a really awesome! On PS/2 the problem still exists with the pause keys and the print screen keys 0.0 I'll have to check it out tomorrow. Will switch to Windows from Linux to see if it is the the issue. Otherwise something is up with the PCB, idk.

Also it seems that when I disconnected the battery terminal wires (had to de solder them to separate the pcb from the back case) the calc stopped working disconnected from the computer, it could also just be that it got too dark Also the battery aren't like yours, they are two button cells together. This also means absolutely 0 leakage! I didn't know this but you can flip up the calc display, looks cool as ****

For a keyboard that was in the "for parts or not working" section of ebay it works pretty damn well. The switches feel good but they still need to be taken apart for cleaning, will do that sometime, it is very time consuming.

[khronokrator]

Yeah, I think the worst thing Focus could've possibly done was to use that Ni-CD monstrosity (a very apt name for it, indeed) on the Fk-9000. Then they apparently did themselves one better and decided that it would be an integral part of the circuitry of the keyboard, according to Chyros, so it won't work without it. 

It's too bad, because I really like this keyboard. How is the keyfeel on yours? Did you get SKCMs or clones?

I got my FK-9000 cleaned up, or at least as cleaned up as I could without pulling the switches out. Hope I can get a FK-5001 sometime, sounds like it'd be a hell of a lot more reliable.

[Mattr567]

Yeah, I think the worst thing Focus could've possibly done was to use that Ni-CD monstrosity (a very apt name for it, indeed) on the Fk-9000. Then they apparently did themselves one better and decided that it would be an integral part of the circuitry of the keyboard, according to Chyros, so it won't work without it. 

It's too bad, because I really like this keyboard. How is the keyfeel on yours? Did you get SKCMs or clones?

I got my FK-9000 cleaned up, or at least as cleaned up as I could without pulling the switches out. Hope I can get a FK-5001 sometime, sounds like it'd be a hell of a lot more reliable.

Its an 1st gen FK, so it has full SKCM Whites, made in Taiwan vs China for later ones. Made in June 1990. 2 years after it came out in '88. They feel nice but not super smooth, they don't feel scratchy but slower I guess. Needs a bit more work. It was filthy when I got it, not caked but pretty close, used canned air to blow the dust sitting on the switch housings. I imagine what the insides are like.

So I got lucky I guess. I am not sure what the hell could be wrong with the print screen and pause keys, why would they be producing such random characters consistently?! And the fact that they are the only with this problem. The rest of the board is perfect.

I bet Chryos could help.

[khronokrator]

Has to be a PCB problem. A matrix error, like with my Leading Edge, perhaps?

Chyros, the oracle of Alps, we beseech thee.

[Mattr567]

Has to be a PCB problem. A matrix error, like with my Leading Edge, perhaps?

Chyros, the oracle of Alps, we beseech thee.

Fixed!, switched it to Enhanced PC/AT, PS/2 from PC/AT. Now there is nothing wrong with the board! Just need to get the LCD to display characters properly and retrobright it. And the LCD will be a quick fix. I was originally worried the calc didn't work at all. Also the solar panel works with the battery terminal disconnected, it just wasn't getting enough light, until I shined my desk lamp more directly at it.

[khronokrator]

Again, your luck makes me very envious. 

Would make sense, actually. I'm shocked I didn't think of that earlier, since you can enable that exact same setting in a Northgate via its DIP switches. Hah. And you actually *have* DIP switches to play with!

[Mattr567]

Again, your luck makes me very envious. 

Would make sense, actually. I'm shocked I didn't think of that earlier, since you can enable that exact same setting in a Northgate via its DIP switches. Hah. And you actually *have* DIP switches to play with!

Kinda, its just two switches and different combos of the two make XT, Enhanced XT, AT, and Enhanced AT. With the Northgate you could do all kinds of cool **** like layout changes. I suppose its a bit more than just a single AT/XT switch.

Yea, I can't believe how lucky I am that everything works! Even the damn 26 year old solar panel works. Also there is barely any rust on the plate, just one small patch of minor rust. My SGI Granite has multiple little patches. The caps are in good condition, but yellowed as well. A couple have some nicks but I will sand the nicks down to be flush.

Super happy with this board!

[khronokrator]

Yeah, the plate on mine is in really good condition, too. Virtually no rust whatsoever, and what is there is only very tiny nicks. I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping the stupid Varta monstrosity will allow the keyboard to actually work, otherwise... it's a paperweight, second in a row in fact. At least I didn't spend a fortune for it. 

The calculator works amazingly well, though, which I guess is... something.

We shall expect pictures once you get it all spiffed up! The world really needs more love for the intriging Focus boards... you see FK-2000s literally all over the place (I'd almost say they're more common than the Model M), rather less so of the exotic calculator variants.

[chyros]

Pretty sure the reason that you were getting those weird key combos is the controller sending XT scan codes for them, shift * was the original combination for print screen iirc (check old XT boards).

[Mattr567]

Pretty sure the reason that you were getting those weird key combos is the controller sending XT scan codes for them, shift * was the original combination for print screen iirc (check old XT boards).

I guess, but it was in PC/AT mode so it must be an older protocol than what we normally know as AT. Most AT boards just have one setting.

[chyros]

Pretty sure the reason that you were getting those weird key combos is the controller sending XT scan codes for them, shift * was the original combination for print screen iirc (check old XT boards).

I guess, but it was in PC/AT mode so it must be an older protocol than what we normally know as AT. Most AT boards just have one setting.

It's probably some kind of compatibility setting. True AT wouldn't have that combination.

[khronokrator]

Alright, so the aptly named Varta "monstrosity" came today and you were completely right, Chyros. Swapping the battery in seems to have solved the problem! So, thank you, my friend. 

All is not completely well, however. The C and especially S keys almost never register, requiring me to mash them multiple times, and the #2 key in home row (not the numpad) doesn't work at all. Also, the T key sometimes outputs multiple characters per keypress, e.g. ttttt. I'm thinking it sounds like dead keys, and I'm hoping it isn't a greater electrical problem.

The feel of the switches is pretty horrible anyway and I think I'm going to transplant them out, since for me disassembly will be a nightmare.

I also have no idea how the programmable F keys work.

[Mattr567]

Alright, so the aptly named Varta "monstrosity" came today and you were completely right, Chyros. Swapping the battery in seems to have solved the problem! So, thank you, my friend. 

All is not completely well, however. The C and especially S keys almost never register, requiring me to mash them multiple times, and the #2 key in home row (not the numpad) doesn't work at all. Also, the T key sometimes outputs multiple characters per keypress, e.g. ttttt. I'm thinking it sounds like dead keys, and I'm hoping it isn't a greater electrical problem.

The feel of the switches is pretty horrible anyway and I think I'm going to transplant them out, since for me disassembly will be a nightmare.

I also have no idea how the programmable F keys work.

Congrats! Yea those are dead keys for sure.

Today I cleaned a couple of switches, and yea, they are dirty, need to do the whole board. Right now it is my daily driver. Will post some pics soon.

[Mattr567]

Eww

[khronokrator]

Eww at the yellowing, or the slider? 

I'm going to make mine a daily driver... eventually, when I get some time and dig out my soldering equipment. I've got a Zeos keyboard with decent enough SKCMs that it can be a donor.

[ander]

Hey guys – I bought the other FK-3001 Mattr567 mentioned on pg. 1. I couldn't resist the tantalizing possibility it might contain Alps Blues. Yeah, I know it's unlikely—but for $40 + shipping it seemed a reasonable risk, and it'll be a nice (and seldom-seen) board no matter what.

Obviously people were asking the seller to "look under a cap", because this was appended to the description:





These didn't have Alps Blacks, to my knowledge... So I'm guessing she obediently removed a cap and "looked under it"—at the color of the double-shot legend.  :?)

In a rare fit of marriage-defying chutzpah, I also picked up this Quimax KI-5170, as it was considerably less than the other few that have appeared recently (but seemed in very nice shape). I'd read about its contactless magnetic valve switches, and that was just too intriguing to pass up. I'll post a review about both boards when I can. Cheers!

[chyros]

Alright, so the aptly named Varta "monstrosity" came today and you were completely right, Chyros. Swapping the battery in seems to have solved the problem! So, thank you, my friend. 

No worries mate, always happy to help .

All is not completely well, however. The C and especially S keys almost never register, requiring me to mash them multiple times, and the #2 key in home row (not the numpad) doesn't work at all. Also, the T key sometimes outputs multiple characters per keypress, e.g. ttttt. I'm thinking it sounds like dead keys, and I'm hoping it isn't a greater electrical problem.

Almost certainly a contact problem. Clean out the switches and check the soldering on the dead ones. Test for continuity with the switch open and closed and see what that yields, that should give an answer. Try re-flowing the solder flux, or if that doesn't work, substitute in another switch.

I also have no idea how the programmable F keys work.

Go to MS-DOS, then press prog+PF1, then enter the characters you want to input, and end with PF1 again. There's a very low maximum amount of characters and modifiers take up more than one, though. If you've hit the maximum, which changes depending on the alignment of the stars with Mars and Jupiter, it will end the programming automatically without needing to press PF1 again. If it's worked, after pressing PF1 again, the characters on the screen will delete.

[Mattr567]

Hey guys – I bought the other FK-3001 Mattr567 mentioned on pg. 1. I couldn't resist the tantalizing possibility it might contain Alps Blues. Yeah, I know it's unlikely—but for $40 + shipping it seemed a reasonable risk, and it'll be a nice (and seldom-seen) board no matter what.

Obviously people were asking the seller to "look under a cap", because this was appended to the description:


(Attachment Link)


These didn't have Alps Blacks, to my knowledge... So I'm guessing she obediently removed a cap and "looked under it"—at the color of the double-shot legend.  :?)

In a rare fit of marriage-defying chutzpah, I also picked up this Quimax KI-5170, as it was considerably less than the other few that have appeared recently (but seemed in very nice shape). I'd read about its contactless magnetic valve switches, and that was just too intriguing to pass up. I'll post a review about both boards when I can. Cheers!

Good luck! The person said the calculator also didn't work, but she may have meant not at all, vs my seller who just meant how well it worked, not if it worked at all which is what really matters. It doesn't need a battery to work so either it does or doesn't.

Eww at the yellowing, or the slider? 

I'm going to make mine a daily driver... eventually, when I get some time and dig out my soldering equipment. I've got a Zeos keyboard with decent enough SKCMs that it can be a donor.

Same here. Will be my daily. One reason vs like SGI for instance is the spacebar. On most older Alps boards, the stability isn't very good, like on my SGI, or a AEK. it may have a wire, but it normally has only one stabilizer cylinder thing which causes it to feel mushy and softer, like on my SGI. With the FK-3001 they have one on both sides so it is super responsive. Also try to clean all the switches. I know it is a pain in the ass, trust me I have been cleaning on and off my switches for a couple days and it sucks but it makes such a huge difference.

[khronokrator]

The stability (and the stabilizers) are frankly ridiculous on the FK-9000. Two stabilizers on the enter key alone! Many expletives were uttered trying to get that sucker back on.   

The last time I tried to clean Alps switches in a Chicony donor board I pretty much bent the spring when I was trying to put it all back together again. That scared me off for a good long while. I need to study Chyros' videos more, but in general I don't do well with tiny complex parts... too much "jittery fingers syndrome."

I'm actually really impressed that the calculator is working perfect in mine. No 'buggy digits' at all, even if you fill up the entire screen! All in all, the board's actually in fairly good condition minus the somewhat alarming huge bend in the PCB (wonder if that one was some kind of manufacturing error, as the keyboard itself is otherwise pretty immaculate).

These weird Focus boards have a lot of character, if I do say so myself. It's just a pity their build quality is so mediocre. 

Also, Chyros... apologies if I show my ignorance here, but you do mean the command prompt when you say MS-DOS? Or Dosbox?

[ander]

Go to MS-DOS, then...

Wow—that's like saying, "Call up your high school girlfriend..." Not that I haven't been tempted.

[chyros]

Well it was meant to be used in MS-DOS, but fortunately you can use the command prompt too .

And yeah, I agree, that's why I like Focus boards a lot myself ^^ .

Btw, almost all boards with bigass enters have two stabilisers .

[chyros]

Go to MS-DOS, then...

Wow—that's like saying, "Call up your high school girlfriend..." Not that I haven't been tempted.

I actually found one if those actually floppy floppy disks a few weeks ago that had DOS on it xD . That was quite a trip down memory lane xD .

Not been tempted to call back my girlfriend though, she was a psychotic ***** .

[Mattr567]

So I finally finished cleaning all of my switches  Took ****ing forever, but it was worth it.

So right now its mechanically perfect! It will stay in this state till maybe Juneish? It will stay yellow, and the battery terminals will stay disconnected. Maybe ill get to the screen next weekend or something. To get it back (you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it) you heat up the ribbon cable on low heat with a hair dryer and then rub it with a eraser. Weird but it works!

Will get some proper pics and maybe a typing test tomorrow. It is my new daily. Legit clicky alps is so sastifying, I was really struggling to find it in my MX Blue G80. I am also not deterred by build quality, I came from a G80 so yea.. 

BTW the date is June 1990, if that is relevant to the Focus timeline.

[khronokrator]

The weird thing is, considering their common heritage and (possibly) manufacturer, Northgate bigass enters only use a single stabilizer, IIRC. And that's what I'm most used to, hence the many expletives I unleashed upon the FK-9000.

And thanks again, Chyros. I'll probably plug the FK-9000 in tomorrow and test its programmable keys in the command prompt. If I can get this board cleaned up well enough I may take it along on my next vacation, provided the TSA doesn't completely flip out during security screening.

[Mattr567]

The weird thing is, considering their common heritage and (possibly) manufacturer, Northgate bigass enters only use a single stabilizer, IIRC. And that's what I'm most used to, hence the many expletives I unleashed upon the FK-9000.

And thanks again, Chyros. I'll probably plug the FK-9000 in tomorrow and test its programmable keys in the command prompt. If I can get this board cleaned up well enough I may take it along on my next vacation, provided the TSA doesn't completely flip out during security screening.

My 3001 has two as well, a Alps stab and a Costar stab. A bit of a pain in the ass but not as bad as my Zenith Z-150's enter key 0.0 Wonder if the two make a difference.

[khronokrator]

It might make bigass enter keys more stable and less prone to "sticking?" I couldn't say for sure. I know "sticking" seems to be a big problem for bigass enter keys in general; I've had experience with several Omnikeys whose enter keys were so bad they'd literally stick down.

Also, do post pictures of your board, Mattr. 

[jacobolus]

I’ve seen L-shaped enter keys on Alps-switch keyboards with:

* Just a stabilizer peg
* One Alps-style stabilizer plus a peg
* One Costar-style stabilizer
* Two Alps-style stabilizers
* Two Costar-style stabilizers
* One Alps-style and one Costar-style stabilizer

And possibly others I’m not remembering.

[chyros]

(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)

Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it . Might take a while yet, though. 

[Mattr567]

Here they are! Interesting how they have two different keys to switch between calc and keyboard mode. Also it uses some screws to hold the case together at the top.

[engicoder]

(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)

Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it . Might take a while yet, though.

No pressure :-P  I think it should work for the 3001 as well but might take a little dremel work.

[chyros]

(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)

Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it . Might take a while yet, though.

No pressure :-P  I think it should work for the 3001 as well but might take a little dremel work.

Nope, none at all xD . It's going to be amazing though, I can't wait for it .

BTW, nice pictures Matt, would you mind sticking them on the DT wiki? IIRC there's no info or pics on that page AT ALL Oo .

[Mattr567]

(you should do this too Chryos, your FK 8000 deserves it)

Engicoder has been helping me with a project related to this, I suspect you're going to love it . Might take a while yet, though.

No pressure :-P  I think it should work for the 3001 as well but might take a little dremel work.

Nope, none at all xD . It's going to be amazing though, I can't wait for it .

BTW, nice pictures Matt, would you mind sticking them on the DT wiki? IIRC there's no info or pics on that page AT ALL Oo .

Thanks. I am going to get that page up and running. That page doesn't even pop up on the Keyboards with Alps switches section of the wiki. May I ask what this project is?

[Mattr567]

Check it: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-3001

Did a bit more than add some pictures

[khronokrator]

The weird double switching configuration seems to be something Focus retained with the FK-3001 and the FK-5001 until they made their successors, the 8000 and 9000 respectively.

I honestly prefer the bigass Futaba lock switches on the 8000/9000 over the configuration of the 3001/5001, but the earlier models are probably better built, and are certainly less prone to dead calculator and/or keyboard syndrome. (Especially with that godawful NiCad battery. What was Focus thinking?)

I also really like the Alps locking lights on the 9000; they look seriously cool.

[Mattr567]

The weird double switching configuration seems to be something Focus retained with the FK-3001 and the FK-5001 until they made their successors, the 8000 and 9000 respectively.

I honestly prefer the bigass Futaba lock switches on the 8000/9000 over the configuration of the 3001/5001, but the earlier models are probably better built, and are certainly less prone to dead calculator and/or keyboard syndrome. (Especially with that godawful NiCad battery. What was Focus thinking?)

I also really like the Alps locking lights on the 9000; they look seriously cool.

Yea, I wish I had lock lights. They are much cooler than keyboard ones. I wanted to get a 8000 for that reason but I didn't find dealing with a chance of clones worth it. Also for the reasons you stated. On the 3001's wiki page I made a note of the battery change, and the awful leaking NiCads

So how do you like the 9000? Interesting board but I don't think I could get used the arrow cluster. Also have you cleaned your switches? Its totally worth it. Luckily my other Alps boards don't need it  I didn't notice a major change in cleaning my SKCM Oranges or SKCL Greens. The SKCM White change was huge. They click louder, stronger, and prouder. They feel smoother and more responsive.

[chyros]

Nice, thanks for the contribution . I'll reword and update it a little here and there when I get home, but it looks like this nice keyboard finally has a proper page like it deserves .

[khronokrator]

Yea, I wish I had lock lights. They are much cooler than keyboard ones. I wanted to get a 8000 for that reason but I didn't find dealing with a chance of clones worth it. Also for the reasons you stated. On the 3001's wiki page I made a note of the battery change, and the awful leaking NiCads

So how do you like the 9000? Interesting board but I don't think I could get used the arrow cluster. Also have you cleaned your switches? Its totally worth it. Luckily my other Alps boards don't need it  I didn't notice a major change in cleaning my SKCM Oranges or SKCL Greens. The SKCM White change was huge. They click louder, stronger, and prouder. They feel smoother and more responsive.

I'm really liking the 9000 so far, I just haven't had the time to clean & replace its switches, so it's seen very little actual use. Real life keeps getting in the way. 

I think clicky Alps are the ones most susceptible to "Dirty switch syndrome." They have too many extra moving parts compared to tactile and especially linear switches, any one of which can get gummed up with dust and debris over the years. Thus, they gain the most back after cleaning, and they tend to have the most wildly differing tactility and clickiness depending up on make and model year, how much use they've seen, how much dust they've accumulated, etc.

This is generally true of most clicky switches. Ironically, I've long been of the opinion that the best buckling springs are the ones that have been heavily broken in (not dirty, mind you, just ones that have seen a fair amount of use). Brand-new Model Ms are almost uncomfortably stiff, IMO.

Anyway, I'm strongly considering buying a 5001 from another GH member here, and if so I will most definitely compare notes, as the 9000 was basically the exact same board, just a later model.

[ander]

Well it was meant to be used in MS-DOS, but fortunately you can use the command prompt too :) .

Oh yeah, the command line! That is sort of like DOS, isn't it? I never thought of it that way.

In case anyone's interested, here's a little follow up on the FK-3001 I ordered:

It did, indeed, have Whites. And they were scratchy and needed cleaning. Fortunately—despite the note I always send KB sellers, asking them to please pack carefully—the seller shipped it in a single-layer box with no packing material whatsoever, and it arrived with the battery cover broken off. So it's going back, postpaid. At least I got to see what kind of switches it had. (My theory about "black under the caps" was apparently true.)

[Mattr567]

Well it was meant to be used in MS-DOS, but fortunately you can use the command prompt too .

Oh yeah, the command line! That is sort of like DOS, isn't it? I never thought of it that way.

In case anyone's interested, here's a little follow up on the FK-3001 I ordered:

It did, indeed, have Whites. And they were scratchy and needed cleaning. Fortunately—despite the note I always send KB sellers, asking them to please pack carefully—the seller shipped it in a single-layer box with no packing material whatsoever, and it arrived with the battery cover broken off. So it's going back, postpaid. At least I got to see what kind of switches it had. (My theory about "black under the caps" was apparently true.)

That sucks, mine came expertly wrapped. Did the calc work?

[ander]

That sucks, mine came expertly wrapped. Did the calc work?

Yes, perfectly! Ironic, huh?

[khronokrator]

I'm really loving these programmable function keys, I just wish they stored more than an average of 8 characters or so. 

Going to either clean and/or have the switches replaced relatively soon. This keyboard is definitely what I'd call "charming" and with some switch work would be my daily driver.

[chyros]

Haha yeah PF keys are pretty fun xD . I used a board with them in at work for a while and I got so lazy with them I programmed one of them into ctrl+alt+del [username] tab [password] enter, so that I could log in with a single button xD .

[Mattr567]

Another one, non solar panel, looks clean but is missing a keycap. Calc doesn't work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOCUS-FK-3001-Clicky-Mechanical-Keyboard-White-Alps-Sliders-PS-2-PARTS-or-Repair-/291743753943?hash=item43ed4866d7:g:FuIAAOSwYmZXF~Zx

[Hak Foo]

I'm really loving these programmable function keys, I just wish they stored more than an average of 8 characters or so. 

Going to either clean and/or have the switches replaced relatively soon. This keyboard is definitely what I'd call "charming" and with some switch work would be my daily driver.

I keep thinking about decontrollering my (dead calc, scratchy switches, part scavenged) FK-9000  and putting in a Teensy++ with a decent firmware.  That mod would probably let you have tens of kilobytes per macro key.

But then I realise I use |\ way too often to have it anywehre but in a straight-ANSI position...

[khronokrator]

Ironically, the Focus layout is probably my favorite. But if you really use that key (I can't type it on my F122) yeah, it's pretty much the worst possible configuration you could imagine. 

I'm going to attempt to clean + swap out the switches on my FK-9000 once my new solder and desoldering wick arrive later this week. I consider myself absurdly lucky to have gotten one with a working calculator, and find it very interesting. Just needs better key-feel.

Also, another 3001, which might've been listed before:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?

[chyros]

Nothing ironic about it, the Focus layout is really accessible and user-friendly .

[orihalcon]

Is there a trick to getting the calculator to display correctly if there are dead pixels? Seems everyone was saying that would be fixable. I'm thinking it's a bad connection to the LCD, but I don't think that's something that can just be soldered.

Just won this one:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?txnId=0

....but am anticipating that it will have display issues at the very least and from reading the rest of this forum, seems quite possible that the keyboard part might not work either. No possibility of blue alps per the description unfortunately.  Fingers crossed that it mostly works though

[khronokrator]

On a related note, I think I killed my FK-9000. 

Attempted to transplant some switches into it earlier this week, and though nothing appears to be wrong the entire PCB seemed to short out. The loose lead from the battery terminal kept coming loose and I had to resolder, cut, and resolder it several times before I got it to stick. Depending upon how you maneuver the very short lead cable you can now get maybe 50% of the switches to work, but the home row cluster seems completely dead. Guess I'll have to disassemble it for parts, since the Alps world doesn't really have resources like clickykeyboards.com or Phosphor Glow to turn to. Quite sad.

[chyros]

Is there a trick to getting the calculator to display correctly if there are dead pixels? Seems everyone was saying that would be fixable. I'm thinking it's a bad connection to the LCD, but I don't think that's something that can just be soldered.

Just won this one:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?txnId=0

....but am anticipating that it will have display issues at the very least and from reading the rest of this forum, seems quite possible that the keyboard part might not work either. No possibility of blue alps per the description unfortunately.  Fingers crossed that it mostly works though

Not really. Focus used very cheap displays that exhibit this issue after a while due to old age. I have even seen this happen on unused ones. Getting one with a display that works and then doesn't give up quickly after is very hard.

[Mattr567]

On a related note, I think I killed my FK-9000. 

Attempted to transplant some switches into it earlier this week, and though nothing appears to be wrong the entire PCB seemed to short out. The loose lead from the battery terminal kept coming loose and I had to resolder, cut, and resolder it several times before I got it to stick. Depending upon how you maneuver the very short lead cable you can now get maybe 50% of the switches to work, but the home row cluster seems completely dead. Guess I'll have to disassemble it for parts, since the Alps world doesn't really have resources like clickykeyboards.com or Phosphor Glow to turn to. Quite sad.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww. That is really weird. Disconnecting the battery cables shouldn't effect the board. The whole time with mine I have had the terminals disconnected for cleaning and such. Heres one thing to do. CLEAN IT! My ASDF row wasn't mostly working on my SGI when I transplanted switches into it, and wiping the PCB with some isopropyl alcohol fixed it right up! Be specific on the area's that don't work.

Is there a trick to getting the calculator to display correctly if there are dead pixels? Seems everyone was saying that would be fixable. I'm thinking it's a bad connection to the LCD, but I don't think that's something that can just be soldered.

Just won this one:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/3001-Focus-Keyboard-Vintage-/152065914069?txnId=0

....but am anticipating that it will have display issues at the very least and from reading the rest of this forum, seems quite possible that the keyboard part might not work either. No possibility of blue alps per the description unfortunately.  Fingers crossed that it mostly works though

Not really. Focus used very cheap displays that exhibit this issue after a while due to old age. I have even seen this happen on unused ones. Getting one with a display that works and then doesn't give up quickly after is very hard.

I plan to fix mine. Age kills old displays like on the Focus's. It happen's on calculators and old phones all the time. I found this tutorial http://www.instructables.com/id/Repair-a-Malfunctioning-LCD/?ALLSTEPS

[khronokrator]

I did clean it when I did the switch replacing. Sprayed the whole back of the PCB down with Electronic WD-40 (which I'm pretty sure is just aerosolized isopropyl alcohol), and the board is pretty immaculate.

What happened is one of the leads from the battery terminal (the left wire specifically) kept coming out because I could not get it to stick in the solder. Then when I tried to resolder it back in I ended up 'cooking' the end of the lead (as I said, soldering skills = abysmal) on the solder iron, so I had to clip off the burnt end and try again. After several iterations of this, when I did finally get it to stick in the solder again the wire was now stretched very tight and the connection was terrible, such that jostling it around even slightly caused the board to either not register at all or have 50% of the keys work.

Again, this is why I wish we had an Alps equivalent to Phosphor Glow so that those of us less-technically-inclined could just send our boards in to be renovated/fixed instead of having to do everything ourselves. It's the single biggest frustration of dealing with Alps boards, IMO. 

[chyros]

Again, this is why I wish we had an Alps equivalent to Phosphor Glow so that those of us less-technically-inclined could just send our boards in to be renovated/fixed instead of having to do everything ourselves. It's the single biggest frustration of dealing with Alps boards, IMO. 

Haha, who knows, you might just get your wish in the future xD .

[khronokrator]

If it were at all feasible (i.e. postage/shipping) I'd be very much in favor of you starting up your own Alps fixing service, Chyros.   

[Mattr567]

If it were at all feasible (i.e. postage/shipping) I'd be very much in favor of you starting up your own Alps fixing service, Chyros.   

I'm not the worst, but my iron could be better I have another way that might work. It looks like from all the stress the PCB took it cracked solder joints and lines all over the board, causing it to be unreliable. This happens a lot with older PC parts and such, and the solution is to cook it! Cooking it in the oven reflows the whole PCB, and in theory fixes it. If it works on GPU's why not a keyboard!! You have to remove all plastics and stickers etc. that would melt but otherwise you should be good.

First I would try to remelt all the solder joints, might just be those rather than traces and stuff.

[chyros]

If it were at all feasible (i.e. postage/shipping) I'd be very much in favor of you starting up your own Alps fixing service, Chyros.   

Heheh oh not me xD .

[orihalcon]

I think the problem with keyboard repair services is that the shipping back and forth just kind of kills it.  If it's something like a bad switch here or there, would only take 15 minutes to fix, but Shipping each way might be $15 assuming you are in the same country.  I think there was a guy on ebay that used to fix Northgate Omnikeys for like $40 which I believe included the return shipping and I think he'd replace up to 6 switches for that price.  Don't think it included any other fixing though.  I don't see him there anymore, so must not have been too much demand.  He was limiting himself to Northgates though.

[khronokrator]

I'm pretty sure the Northgate guy on eBay was Robert Tibbetts, who has a, shall we say... Colorful reputation.

But you're right, it's mostly the shipping that kills any kind of keyboard repair services. I'm fairly certain my 9000 needs some serious work and would benefit from it, but for most people just needing a new switch or three it's not worth the return on investment. So the real question is: how do those Model M guys stay in business, then? 

[orihalcon]

I think the model M guys like Phosphorglow stay in business because they are making your entire keyboard like new or even doing upgrades in some cases and they should pretty much last forever thereafter, takes a couple hours or more, and usually involves bolt modding which requires irreversible drilling, which you want to get right the first time.  Fixing a couple switches on an alps board doesn't guarantee that a couple more won't go bad within a year or two. Just my 2¢

[khronokrator]

Hey, I have several Alps boards that could do with a serious reconditioning on the level of what Phosphor Glow does for his Model M clients. A simple one-or-two switch replacement I can do myself, with much grumbling, but I think there is need for a service of that nature (if only E3E wasn't so busy ).

[jacobolus]

khronokrator: You should just get a soldering iron and do it yourself. It’s really not that difficult.

[khronokrator]

I have, jacobulus. If you care to look a few posts up, I just did this to my poor glitchy FK-9000 last week and it was apparently enough to brick it (doesn't work anymore). The PCB was already in questionable shape, admittedly, so it didn't take much to send it over the edge.

My soldering skills (especially desoldering) are fairly poor, which is why I'd be willing to pay for someone with greater tools and skills to tackle it instead of risking me killing a touchy old PCB.