A few decent Model M deals

[ander]

A few decent deals on Model Ms that seem to be in nice shape:

Vintage Mechanical Keyboard IBM Model 1391401 Clicky 1392090 1984 <--- SOLD
BIN $49.99 + $5.00 shipping (U.S.)

(It's a rubber dome—my bad) (and it's over too, anyway)
Vintage 1985 IBM Model M Blue Label Keyboard - Old School
$69.99 OBO, free shipping

Made in Greenock, but if that doesn't matter: <--- Wrong, U.S. made! (Thanks, Fohat)[/i]
VINTAGE IBM BLUE CLICKY KEYBOARD 42H1292 OCT 1995 PS/2 TESTED <--- SOLD
$52.19 OBO, free shipping

[fohat.digs]

Greenock? The 42H was "Made in USA"

But the 71G is a rubber dome, you can tell by the first digit being "7"

[jwaz]

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

[pr0ximity]

Given that Lexmark was founded in 1991, I'm not sure I'd agree that the "1985 Blue Label" is "Old School"

[pr0ximity]

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

Pretty exciting, they seem to have been a nice investment if 90's Model M's are going for $70+

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-Model-M-52G9700-1994-Clicky-Keyboard-Long-PS-2-Cord-Tested-Blue-Logo-

I'll be retiring early, boys. A silver label must be at least $300 in a few years.

[fohat.digs]

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

I have always felt that a good clean vintage M should be worth as much as a new Unicomp.

[ThoughtArtist]

Why do they put "1984" when it clearly says it was manufactured in 1993?

[ThoughtArtist]

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

I have always felt that a good clean vintage M should be worth as much as a new Unicomp.

Vintage is overpriced junk.

This is worth so much more:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unicomp-085-00978-0000-Model-M-PS-2-Clicky-Keyboard-/152018303833

[jwaz]

Why do they put "1984" when it clearly says it was manufactured in 1993?

Because the most obvious date on the label is the copyright.

[ThoughtArtist]

Why do they put "1984" when it clearly says it was manufactured in 1993?

Because the most obvious date on the label is the copyright.

It's the first thing their monkey saw when looking at the label?

[ander]

Greenock? The 42H was "Made in USA"... But the 71G is a rubber dome, you can tell by the first digit being "7"

Ack, you're entirely right on both counts. My apologies, especially re the RD [blush].

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

$50 shipped is a good deal. I wouldn't pay that plus $15 or $20 shipping, but many people would now.

I'll be retiring early, boys. A silver label must be at least $300 in a few years.

You're joking now, but who saw $1000 industrials coming?

I have always felt that a good clean vintage M should be worth as much as a new Unicomp.

Excellent point. And good, clean M's seem to be getting very close to that—I rarely see them nowadays with BIN below $80. BINs are often over $100. I don't know how many of the latter actually sell, but pricing trends push up people's perceived values of items, and eventually affect their sale prices.

Given that Lexmark was founded in 1991, I'm not sure I'd agree that the "1985 Blue Label" is "Old School"

I reckon any board made in the 20th century is considered "old school" by most people. Funny that they cited a "1985 Blue Label" board, too—they don't exist. This one was made in '95; they just misread the label. (And it turned out to be an RD, of course, so it's probably moot.)

Why do they put "1984" when it clearly says it was manufactured in 1993?

When people (e.g. sorter/listers at a recycler's) glance at an IBM label, the first date that usually jumps out at them is the copyright date:





...that's the same on virtually all Model M's.

Well, guys, again, I apologize for not paying more attention on this one.

[iLLucionist]

DAMMMIT IM TO LAAATE

Would you've shipped to the Netherlands? Do people here usually ship to Europe?

[1391406]

$50+ is a good deal for a model m these days? I need to go to the e-cycler more, this eBay stuff is getting out of hand.

I have always felt that a good clean vintage M should be worth as much as a new Unicomp.

Vintage is overpriced junk.

This is worth so much more:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unicomp-085-00978-0000-Model-M-PS-2-Clicky-Keyboard-/152018303833

A steal at even $200.

[chyros]

Tbh I think I'd sympathise more with Unicomp if the lock light sticker wasn't so eye-wateringly fugly xD .

[iLLucionist]

Tbh I think I'd sympathise more with Unicomp if the lock light sticker wasn't so eye-wateringly fugly xD .

Why the unicomp? Is the feel almost the same as model M?

[fohat.digs]

Why the unicomp? Is the feel almost the same as model M?

A Unicomp  * IS *  a Model M, completely and thoroughly. Made on the same machines in the same factory that IBM owned and operated decades ago.

[iLLucionist]

Why the unicomp? Is the feel almost the same as model M?

A Unicomp  * IS *  a Model M, completely and thoroughly. Made on the same machines in the same factory that IBM owned and operated decades ago.

Thanks, didn't knew that!

[1391406]

Why the unicomp? Is the feel almost the same as model M?

A Unicomp  * IS *  a Model M, completely and thoroughly. Made on the same machines in the same factory that IBM owned and operated decades ago.

Thanks, didn't knew that!

Consider that while the Unicomp is made using the same tooling, the composition of the clamshell material was changed 16 years ago, thus the case has a lot more flex and creaks when flexed. A cursory glance at both, a white IBM manufactured Model M and one made by Unicomp, probably wouldn't reveal any notable differences, but the devil is in the details. There are some cosmetics imperfections on the surface of the Unicomp case that are absent in IBM manufactured Model M's, and a lot of the keycaps used by Unicomp also have flashing around the bottom edges. It's the little things that, when added up, really shine a negative light on Unicomp's quality control compared to IBM manufactured Model M's. So, yes, while Unicomp uses the same tooling, the quality of the end product falls short of IBM's standards, in my opinion. That said, to anyone who's sole interest is in the typing experience, I'd say Unicomp's are similar enough that any differences are negligible.

[iLLucionist]

Why the unicomp? Is the feel almost the same as model M?

A Unicomp  * IS *  a Model M, completely and thoroughly. Made on the same machines in the same factory that IBM owned and operated decades ago.

Thanks, didn't knew that!

Consider that while the Unicomp is made using the same tooling, the composition of the clamshell material was changed 16 years ago, thus the case has a lot more flex and creaks when flexed. A cursory glance at both, a white IBM manufactured Model M and one made by Unicomp, probably wouldn't reveal any notable differences, but the devil is in the details. There are some cosmetics imperfections on the surface of the Unicomp case that are absent in IBM manufactured Model M's, and a lot of the keycaps used by Unicomp also have flashing around the bottom edges. It's the little things that, when added up, really shine a negative light on Unicomp's quality control compared to IBM manufactured Model M's. So, yes, while Unicomp uses the same tooling, the quality of the end product falls short of IBM's standards, in my opinion. That said, to anyone who's sole interest is in the typing experience, I'd say Unicomp's are similar enough that any differences are negligible.

I've just tried to make sense of their offerings. I have a Mac and I don't see any switches to swap win-key with alt/ctrl. They don't have an 87 / TKL (which I can imagine.. trying to replicate the model M and tooling). And I don't know what kind of plastic their caps is... is it ABS or PBT? And can I get replacement caps?

EDIT: Thanks btw for the detailed info!

[fohat.digs]

Caps are dye-sub PBT.

They sell some Apple-oriented replacement sets, and some of the models can be ordered as native Apple.

[iLLucionist]

Caps are dye-sub PBT.

They sell some Apple-oriented replacement sets, and some of the models can be ordered as native Apple.

Thanks, I'll probably buy one sooner or later.

[ander]

Consider that while the Unicomp is made using the same tooling, the composition of the clamshell material was changed 16 years ago, thus the case has a lot more flex and creaks when flexed. A cursory glance at both, a white IBM manufactured Model M and one made by Unicomp, probably wouldn't reveal any notable differences, but the devil is in the details. There are some cosmetics imperfections on the surface of the Unicomp case that are absent in IBM manufactured Model M's, and a lot of the keycaps used by Unicomp also have flashing around the bottom edges. It's the little things that, when added up, really shine a negative light on Unicomp's quality control... That said, to anyone who's sole interest is in the typing experience, I'd say Unicomp's are similar enough that any differences are negligible.

This has been discussed many times of course (for example).

I've always gotten around all this by considering Unicomps a different breed of keyboard than IBM's. No, they're not perfectly finished like IBMs were—but Unicomp isn't selling them for $200 (in '80s/'90s money!) like IBM did, nor in anything close to IBM's volume. Detail = time = money; that's just reality.

I think the fact that Unicomp is making BS KBs at all is remarkable enough that the small cosmetic differences don't bother me. And while I can't speak for everyone, I actually like the differences between IBM/Unicomp boards in materials, weight, touch and sound. It's like having two types of BS KBs, like a Matias board is different from an Alps board. Considering most of us want to have one of everything anyway, it seems like a win/win to me.

Tbh I think I'd sympathise more with Unicomp if the lock light sticker wasn't so eye-wateringly fugly xD .

An oft-voiced complaint.  :?)  But again, IBM was making enough on their hardware to keep visual designers on their staffs. The people who bought Lexmark and created Unicomp were engineers and executives who—primarily out of love for BS boards, I suspect—took on a daunting challenge even without designers on the payroll. So graphically, I see a Unicomp board as a left-brain engineer's vision of a Model M. I sort of like that.

Vintage is overpriced junk... This is worth so much more:
   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unicomp-085-00978-0000-Model-M-PS-2-Clicky-Keyboard-/152018303833

A steal at even $200.

You guys are being funny of course. I spotted that oddly yellowed Unicomp too:





Wonder why the heck it did that, unlike any other Unicomp I (and probably you) have ever seen? Well, it was an OEM board:





...so my best guess is, the client insisted that Unicomp add flame-retardant to their mix. That's usually what causes such radical, Apple-board-type yellowing.

[1391406]

Consider that while the Unicomp is made using the same tooling, the composition of the clamshell material was changed 16 years ago, thus the case has a lot more flex and creaks when flexed. A cursory glance at both, a white IBM manufactured Model M and one made by Unicomp, probably wouldn't reveal any notable differences, but the devil is in the details. There are some cosmetics imperfections on the surface of the Unicomp case that are absent in IBM manufactured Model M's, and a lot of the keycaps used by Unicomp also have flashing around the bottom edges. It's the little things that, when added up, really shine a negative light on Unicomp's quality control... That said, to anyone who's sole interest is in the typing experience, I'd say Unicomp's are similar enough that any differences are negligible.

This has been discussed many times of course (for example).

I've always gotten around all this by considering Unicomps a different breed of keyboard than IBM's. No, they're not perfectly finished like IBMs were—but Unicomp isn't selling them for $200 (in '80s/'90s money!) like IBM did, nor in anything close to IBM's volume. Detail = time = money; that's just reality.

They're the same breed, just not the same quality. And you can buy an original IBM manufactured Model M in good condition for less than a new Unicomp.

I think the fact that Unicomp is making BS KBs at all is remarkable enough that the small cosmetic differences don't bother me. And while I can't speak for everyone, I actually like the differences between IBM/Unicomp boards in materials, weight, touch and sound. It's like having two types of BS KBs, like a Matias board is different from an Alps board. Considering most of us want to have one of everything anyway, it seems like a win/win to me.

The difference is Matias isn't attempting to reproduce a specific keyboard.

Tbh I think I'd sympathise more with Unicomp if the lock light sticker wasn't so eye-wateringly fugly xD .

An oft-voiced complaint.  :?)  But again, IBM was making enough on their hardware to keep visual designers on their staffs. The people who bought Lexmark and created Unicomp were engineers and executives who—primarily out of love for BS boards, I suspect—took on a daunting challenge even without designers on the payroll. So graphically, I see a Unicomp board as a left-brain engineer's vision of a Model M. I sort of like that.

Unicomp still sells the original LED overlays.

[chyros]

That's pretty cool, I didn't know that - that said, it looks like those aren't compatible with Unicomp-made Ms xD .

[iLLucionist]

Unicomp still sells the original LED overlays.

Nicee... that would be a requirement. Why don't they just include it in the box? That default sticker is off-putting.

[1391406]

That's pretty cool, I didn't know that - that said, it looks like those aren't compatible with Unicomp-made Ms xD .

That's true, though the Pearl overlay with LED's on top is compatible and looks better than the included monstrosity:

[1391406]

Unicomp still sells the original LED overlays.

Nicee... that would be a requirement. Why don't they just include it in the box? That default sticker is off-putting.

Chyros is right, it's not compatible, but I'd still prefer the overlay above.

[1391406]

[iLLucionist]

(Attachment Link)

That looks much better..

Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

[1391406]

(Attachment Link)

That looks much better..

Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

I'd probably replace them with unprinted keycaps.

[fohat.digs]

Only thing I would change is those windows keys.

Unicomp sells the angular 8/10 Windows keys as well as penguins.

[iLLucionist]

(Attachment Link)

That looks much better..

Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

I'd probably replace them with unprinted keycaps.

Those exist? Those blank caps? Where can I get those?

[fohat.digs]

(Attachment Link)

That looks much better..

Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

I'd probably replace them with unprinted keycaps.

Those exist? Those blank caps? Where can I get those?

Unicomp sells everything blank and printed. Blank is cheaper. There are a few odd things missing, like certain black space bars and shift keys, and the good colors are only available in 1x size.

[iLLucionist]

(Attachment Link)

That looks much better..

Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

I'd probably replace them with unprinted keycaps.

Those exist? Those blank caps? Where can I get those?

Unicomp sells everything blank and printed. Blank is cheaper. There are a few odd things missing, like certain black space bars and shift keys, and the good colors are only available in 1x size.

Thanks! Good to know it's possible.

[ander]

I've always gotten around all this by considering Unicomps a different breed of keyboard than IBM's. No, they're not perfectly finished like IBMs were—but Unicomp isn't selling them for $200 (in '80s/'90s money!) like IBM did, nor in anything close to IBM's volume. Detail = time = money; that's just reality.

They're the same breed, just not the same quality. And you can buy an original IBM manufactured Model M in good condition for less than a new Unicomp.

Don't rephrase me, dude—I know what I meant.

Breed means "a group of persons or things distinguished by similar characteristics, interests or qualities" (Merriam-Webster). So even by your own description, they could be considered that way.

As I also said, I think the differences are moot. I see you have a Unicomp yourself. Do you type on it? Or do you just keep it around so you can point a finger at it now and then and say, "Ha! You're not as good as an IBM"?

There must be a small number of GH members who own only an IBM or a Unicomp, but there can't be more than one or two who wouldn't want both—because they're both worth having. And unless you want something just so you can complain about it (unlikely), it's silly and/or hypocritical to want it and criticize it. It may also be an indication that you have just a wee bit too much free time.  :?)

...I actually like the differences between IBM/Unicomp boards in materials, weight, touch and sound. It's like having two types of BS KBs, like a Matias board is different from an Alps board.

The difference is Matias isn't attempting to reproduce a specific keyboard.

No, just a specific switch, but comparing the boards they contain is inevitable.

[ander]

That's pretty cool, I didn't know that - that said, it looks like those aren't compatible with Unicomp-made Ms xD .

That's true, though the Pearl overlay with LED's on top is compatible and looks better than the included monstrosity...

Unicomp still sells the original LED overlays.

Nicee... that would be a requirement. Why don't they just include it in the box? That default sticker is off-putting.

Chyros is right, it's not compatible, but I'd still prefer the overlay above.

That looks much better... Only thing I would change is those windows keys. They look a bit misaligned even?

I'd probably replace them with unprinted keycaps.

That reminds me: Did you know that there are families who've lived in refugee camps so long, their teenage kids don't know what it's like to be anywhere that's not fenced in, where they don't have to line up for food, and where they don't have to share a tent with several other people?

[1391406]

I've always gotten around all this by considering Unicomps a different breed of keyboard than IBM's. No, they're not perfectly finished like IBMs were—but Unicomp isn't selling them for $200 (in '80s/'90s money!) like IBM did, nor in anything close to IBM's volume. Detail = time = money; that's just reality.

They're the same breed, just not the same quality. And you can buy an original IBM manufactured Model M in good condition for less than a new Unicomp.

Don't rephrase me, dude—I know what I meant.

According to Webster:

Breed means "a group of persons or things distinguished by similar characteristics, interests or qualities" (Merriam-Webster).

I wasn't paraphrasing you. I was disagreeing with you.

From Merriam-Webster online:

Breed:

3 : class, kind

The Oxford English Dictionary:

1.1 A sort or kind of person or thing

As I also said, I think the differences are moot.

In my opinion, the differences in kind are inconsequential. The differences in quality aren't.

There must be a small number of GH members who own only an IBM or a Unicomp, but there can't be more than one or two who wouldn't want both—because they're both worth having. And unless you want something just so you can complain about it (unlikely), it's silly and/or hypocritical to want it and criticize it.

My Unicomp is currently being utilized by a family member as a replacement for an IBM Model M that was injured in a coke spilling incident(consequently damaging the PCB), and I have no inclination to risk another original IBM Model M. I would've kept the Unicomp anyway though. My original motive for purchasing one was born out of a desire to own a brand new Model M, however after discovering the qualitative differences I didn't sell it because I wanted a physical specimen to base my opinions on rather than discussing it (on this and other forums) solely from memory.

[1391406]

That reminds me: Did you know that there are families who've lived in refugee camps so long, their teenage kids don't know what it's like to be anywhere that's not fenced in, where they don't have to line up for food, and where they don't have to share a tent with several other people?

I know, and I feel awful for those families, but some of us have first world problems to deal with.

[iLLucionist]

That reminds me: Did you know that there are families who've lived in refugee camps so long, their teenage kids don't know what it's like to be anywhere that's not fenced in, where they don't have to line up for food, and where they don't have to share a tent with several other people?

If only they had a true model m. Those teenage kids would have been SO happy, beyond belief. Rattling away on those springs. Though, if they had to share a tent, they might've started killing each other because of the noise of BS.

[ander]

If only they had a true model m. Those teenage kids would have been SO happy, beyond belief. Rattling away on those springs. Though, if they had to share a tent, they might've started killing each other because of the noise of BS.

Ha ha... Let's face it, you can't win.

1391406: It's all semantics. I meant what I meant, and you meant what you meant. I just didn't want you telling me what I meant.

IMHO, IBMs and Unicomps are both great, in different ways. I'm quite pleased to have one of each, as I'd be pleased to have two kinds of sports cars—even if one wasn't quite as solidly made as the other (and there are lots of sportscars like that). They'd sound different and feel different. When I got tired of one, I could switch to the other. And they'd both be vastly better than typical cheap boring cars.

Anyway, pick over details like this as long as you wish... I'm just going to enjoy what I've got.  :?)

[1391406]

1391406: It's all semantics.

If language is going to have meaning then the words we use should conform to their definitions.

I meant what I meant, and you meant what you meant. I just didn't want you telling me what I meant.

Again, I know what you meant. My reply was an expression of disagreement.

IMHO, IBMs and Unicomps are both great, in different ways.

Which different ways are you referring to? The difference in feel is negligible, and soundwise, Unicomp Model M's lack the hollow metallic pinging that IBM manufactured Model M's are known for. The primary differences between the two are qualitative.

I'm quite pleased to have one of Anyway, pick over details like this as long as you wish... I'm just going to enjoy what I've got.

What you like is undoubtedly your business. My sole contention is that Unicomp Model M's are qualitatively inferior to IBM manufactured Model M's. To what degree the qualitative differences have relevance for you or anyone else is of no consequence to me.

[fohat.digs]

My sole contention is that Unicomp Model M's are qualitatively inferior to IBM manufactured Model M's.

A Unicomp is an absolute, real, true, actual Model M keyboard in every way.

"They don't make 'em like they used to."

How many times do we have to go through this?

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

[1391406]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

[iLLucionist]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

[1391406]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

F's use capacitive actuation and M's are membrane based. Further, the bottom half of the Model F case (122-key) is metal.

[iLLucionist]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

F's use capacitive actuation, M's are membrane based. Further, the bottom half of the Model F case is metal.

Thanks for the info. So if you want the real BS experience, you want an F or M?

[chyros]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

The keyfeel is lighter and much crisper and cleaner on the F. I know it might sound superficial, but it's genuinely night and day.

The sound is also totally different. The M is a "thock" kind of sound, while the F is much more like a "ping" sound and it's much louder. In fact, the F is probably the loudest switch/keyboard I know of.

[1391406]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

F's use capacitive actuation, M's are membrane based. Further, the bottom half of the Model F case is metal.

Thanks for the info. So if you want the real BS experience, you want an F or M?

I much prefer the key feel of Model F's by far. Compared to M's, the keys feel lighter, snappier, and a bit crisper, in my opinion.

[iLLucionist]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

F's use capacitive actuation, M's are membrane based. Further, the bottom half of the Model F case is metal.

Thanks for the info. So if you want the real BS experience, you want an F or M?

I much prefer the key feel of Model F's by far. Compared to M's, the keys feel lighter, snappier, and a bit crisper, in my opinion.

Cool, thanks again! Now if only I could GET one

[chyros]

Anyway, the quality differences between IBM Ms and Unicomp Ms are trivial compared to the real differences between Ms and Fs.

What do you expect? M's and F's are different models, but as far as Model M's are concerned, I don't consider the qualitative differences between IBM and Unicomp Model M's to be negligible.

What's the largest difference between model M and F anyway?

F's use capacitive actuation, M's are membrane based. Further, the bottom half of the Model F case is metal.

Thanks for the info. So if you want the real BS experience, you want an F or M?

I much prefer the key feel of Model F's by far. Compared to M's, the keys feel lighter, snappier, and a bit crisper, in my opinion.

Cool, thanks again! Now if only I could GET one

They're seriously not that hard to find. There's always a bunch on eBay at the least.

They even found an F AT at the recycling centre for me once, but a new guy accidentally tossed it in the recycler before I could come and collect it D; .