The Official Fiat 500 Thread

[SmallFry]

Any reason why this thread is more deserving as a sticky compared to other off-topic thread? All I see is cross forum drama and replies between 2-3 people.

I noticed that also, and while I welcome our new members, I don't exactly agree with the sticky.

[mkawa]

it was a very temporary indulgence to facilitate some unfortunate but necessary baby mama drama. hash seems to have fixed it for me. no worries.

also, apologies to the geekhack community for shoving this in everyone's face in OT as a sticky. what i will be doing is starting a parallel car forum that you don't ever have to look at, linked in theme and philosophy, but not the same domain.

[dart1.4t]

i got yer pm from fiat500usa forum. i'm actually an acquaintance of the forum owner. but that doesn't mean we can't get along... sorry you got banned or whatever.

[redred]

AN UPDATE: fiat500usa, who is neither a fiat 500, nor the usa, nor someone who can figure out how to configure canned software on a lowendbox, has permanently banned me from his forum for "seriously? you have no idea what you are talking about." I'm not sure he is talking about running forums, because we do that here with aplomb, cars, because he knows nothing about them, or SEO, which would actually be true. I know nothing about SEO, because my friends all work on the search infrastructure and it would be plainly unethical.

this instance will be expanded to either a subforum or a full separate (but linked domain), fiat folks. i'm going to continue to hack on this car with y'all, and i'm not going to let Chris "Private, Registration  FIAT500USA.COM@domainsbyproxy.com" whoever he is, stop me.

Wow... cannot believe you got banned.  Are you and Ryephile still going to stay in touch with Terry?  Has Fortune been invited over here?  Definitely interested in the coilover project. 

It's shocking to me how many people have been banned from that forum.  I know a couple of guys who were banned because they asked that the RRM bashing be controlled and instead they were banned.  Very odd. 

[trevc]

I understand that you want to talk freely but why attack Chris? It is very common for people to not divulge personal information in domain registrations - so much spamming, fraud etc. going on these days.
Chris is entitled to run his business how he sees fit. Not sure why you think he shouldn't be allowed to make money?
Generational differences I am sure.
He has done a lot for the community up to this point and has good contacts inside of Fiat.

Anyways, good luck with this thread - sounds like you have some really cool ideas for mods and lots of enthusiasm.

I will keep dropping in to catch up if that is ok; if not ban me 

AN UPDATE: fiat500usa, who is neither a fiat 500, nor the usa, nor someone who can figure out how to configure canned software on a lowendbox, has permanently banned me from his forum for "seriously? you have no idea what you are talking about." I'm not sure he is talking about running forums, because we do that here with aplomb, cars, because he knows nothing about them, or SEO, which would actually be true. I know nothing about SEO, because my friends all work on the search infrastructure and it would be plainly unethical.

this instance will be expanded to either a subforum or a full separate (but linked domain), fiat folks. i'm going to continue to hack on this car with y'all, and i'm not going to let Chris "Private, Registration  FIAT500USA.COM@domainsbyproxy.com" whoever he is, stop me.

[mkawa]

i got yer pm from fiat500usa forum. i'm actually an acquaintance of the forum owner. but that doesn't mean we can't get along... sorry you got banned or whatever.

in that case let him know that (one, just one of) my problem is that he is operating a business anonymously. his forum users and customers (advertisers) have no way of knowing what his COIs may be, whether he is trustworthy, etc. we don't even operate a business here, and yet everything is public and transparent.

my problem is not that he is making money, but that he is doing so in a matter that is not ethically sound.

Regardless, our philosophy is to focus #1 on community, to sacrifice our own time and money to build that community, and to increase the greater good. I will be starting a "car forum" with that exact same philosophy that I hope will continue the fortune auto project, corse grill project, lightweight battery project, and ATM's various consumer-driven projects for the NAFTA 500 Abarth. In the long run, I hope it can do the same for many other gearheads and their cars and motorcycles as well (frankly, pretty much all the staff here are gearheads as it is, we often have trouble not diverging into gearhead territory during our meetings.. ).

As for the ban, I expected it, as well as the flippant attitude from the owner. I feel that I know his type, that it is very similar to those that run other "car forums" on the internet, and I'm absolutely tired of it. I come from the academic world, which is not perfect, but not driven by pure greed and exploitation either (ok, some exploitation..). I have been part of various "car forums" with similar issues for over a decade and I'm ready to do my part to help change things for the better.

trev: welcome to geekhack

-Ming

[tipo33]

I had a Fiat 128, and I had a Lada 2107 which is a licence built Fiat 124.  Can I join?

FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow

Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino

[dart1.4t]

in that case let him know that (one, just one of) my problem is that he is operating a business anonymously. his forum users and customers (advertisers) have no way of knowing what his COIs may be, whether he is trustworthy, etc. we don't even operate a business here, and yet everything is public and transparent.

yeah i'm really not gonna get involved in that. lets focus more on the cars.

[jguerdat]

Well, this thread suddenly stopped... :-)

[CommunistWitchDr]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow

*Fix It Again Tony

When I was much younger (like a little kid) the family had a Fiat, but that's about all the experience I've had with em.

[mkawa]

tentative name for new site: gearhack.org

stuff is happening, but several hundred things at once. on the upside, i should be able to install my ATM intake this week? i want updates from fortune!!!

[redred]

Sounds good!  Terry from fortune posted today that the prototypes are in progress and product should be ready in 3-4 months

[Hak Foo]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow

I find it interesting that they've really taken a "clean slate" perspective to their "brand baggage".  Fiats were clearly not considered well-made by American standards initially.  Now, some of this may be environmental and usage-pattern based-- look at what happened when American railroads imported sophisticated German diesel locomotives in the 1960s-- and I'm not even going to start analyzing it.  But you'd think they'd go for a very strong "We stand behind our product" message-- an outsized warranty, like the Koreans used to shore up their reputation, or a free-maintenance programme.  Instead, they seem to be ignoring the "Fix it again Tony" meme entirely.

OTOH, I do find the concept of the 500e compelling.  There's probably a sensible aspect to building an electric model with as many common parts as possible with the petrol one.  For comparison, there aren't gonna be many Leafs in the scrapyard if you need to salvage a body panel.

[mkawa]

Sounds good!  Terry from fortune posted today that the prototypes are in progress and product should be ready in 3-4 months

pictures!!

[dart1.4t]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tomorrow

I find it interesting that they've really taken a "clean slate" perspective to their "brand baggage".  Fiats were clearly not considered well-made by American standards initially.  Now, some of this may be environmental and usage-pattern based-- look at what happened when American railroads imported sophisticated German diesel locomotives in the 1960s-- and I'm not even going to start analyzing it.  But you'd think they'd go for a very strong "We stand behind our product" message-- an outsized warranty, like the Koreans used to shore up their reputation, or a free-maintenance programme.  Instead, they seem to be ignoring the "Fix it again Tony" meme entirely.

OTOH, I do find the concept of the 500e compelling.  There's probably a sensible aspect to building an electric model with as many common parts as possible with the petrol one.  For comparison, there aren't gonna be many Leafs in the scrapyard if you need to salvage a body panel.

italy had major labor problems in the 70's and 80's, the assembly workers didn't care. US fiat dealers had to come to a point that the cars recieved a full inspection by dealer mechanics to make sure the bolts were torqued properly and the fluids were all correct. they lost huge amounts of money paying dealers to basically rebuild the cars not to mention the rust problems from the russian steels many car companies had in the 70's before all these modern coatings.

fiat always gave a lot for the money, they had standard disk brakes on all models after they were released, twin cam engines, bucket seats, and some of the cars even had style. even the simple cars had personality.

alot of bad could be said about them but most of it would be true of any european car of the time. especially british cars.. (then again american cars at the time weren't known to be too good either) european companies just weren't large enough to do what american companies did with parts engineered to the application. lucas electronics were terrible, cheap pcb's and hand soldered, it was a joke. that's why magnetti marelli copied gm atleast gm could have there own IC's made up for the ignition modules. my father worked on foreign cars in the 70's and even roll royce had many american parts from door switches to the transmission. (bmw fiat and opel use gm transmissions on some rear wheel drive models too...)

[redred]

Sounds good!  Terry from fortune posted today that the prototypes are in progress and product should be ready in 3-4 months

pictures!!

No pics yet. I will post some if they do

[mkawa]

blerg erg. just finished my ATM HCI install. almost pulled the TB and did that at the same time, but i'm going to wait until the next time i pull the battery (have one coming from batteryspace on ryan's suggestion after the scam artist took off on me. sigh)

eta: OH MY GOD. ATM'S INTAKE IS INCREDIBLE. BEST. SOUNDS. EVER. SO MUCH TURBO RESPONSIVENESS HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP HOLY CRAP

[redred]

Nice!  I've heard good things!!

[mkawa]

other stuff has been happening. shagh made some good measurements that i'm going to have to walk him through turning into a DXF for a metal front grille with better airflow. ryephile and i have been *****ing about batteries, and i ordered one that will actually be delivered on monday. ryephile and i have also been *****ing about the evap jungle gym, and i ordered up my BOM that will be delivered and then implemented early next week

also i found out something super awesome that everyone else will find out next week.

[Bullveyr]

Not a Fiat but same company.

After 52.000 km my Alfa 147 is on its 3rd clutch.

[BlueMica]

Its made by Chrysler and Its Italian that should explain the reliability issues. 

[Bullveyr]

No, my 147 was built by Italians.

Fun fact, when I picked it up from my dealer I immediately returned it because the turbo wasn't working, as it turned out they connected some tubes the wrong way in the factory.

[mkawa]

hose clamps seem ot be the bane of line workers everywhere. so far i've discovered one completely forgotten clamp, and there are numerous complains of loose coolant system and charge-system clamps on the fiat forums (assembly line responsible for this car is chrysler's plant in toluca mexico). however, this is quite a bit better than the complaints i've seen about the focus ST (detroit, mich) -- completely missing clamps in the pressurized coolant system that dump their coolant 15 minutes off the lot (lol). and ford mexico (immediate unexplainable grenading, everything possible out of tolerance).

the most reliable plants by far are still the really well run ones in japan, germany and northern europe. these are second only by a hair to the well run japanese/german owned plants in the US and canada.

mazda is booting up a plant in mexico next year though for the next gen 3-series though, and mazda does not eff around.

anyway, to get back on topic, the sourcing of the for the 2011-2013 nafta fiat 500 is: USA engine, (dundee mich). chassis and body toluca mexico, transmission US/IT (USA for the base transmission, italy for the turbo and abarth). final assembly, toluca mexico.

so far, i've seen some hilarious stuff under the hood of my car, but the chassis and body are excellent -- better than my last car, which was 100% japanese sourced and built in Honda's flagship Suzuka plant (the one right next to honda's famous testing ground: Suzuka circuit , home of the japanese GP). that said, the suzuka-built driveline is a near pinnacle of automated motor assembly.

[pasph]

Do you want to see a Fiat 500 with a Lamborghini Murcielago V12 6.2L 580hp engine?
http://www.oemmedi.it/video.htm

[BlueMica]

hose clamps seem ot be the bane of line workers everywhere. so far i've discovered one completely forgotten clamp, and there are numerous complains of loose coolant system and charge-system clamps on the fiat forums (assembly line responsible for this car is chrysler's plant in toluca mexico). however, this is quite a bit better than the complaints i've seen about the focus ST (detroit, mich) -- completely missing clamps in the pressurized coolant system that dump their coolant 15 minutes off the lot (lol). and ford mexico (immediate unexplainable grenading, everything possible out of tolerance).

the most reliable plants by far are still the really well run ones in japan, germany and northern europe. these are second only by a hair to the well run japanese/german owned plants in the US and canada.

mazda is booting up a plant in mexico next year though for the next gen 3-series though, and mazda does not eff around.

anyway, to get back on topic, the sourcing of the for the 2011-2013 nafta fiat 500 is: USA engine, (dundee mich). chassis and body toluca mexico, transmission US/IT (USA for the base transmission, italy for the turbo and abarth). final assembly, toluca mexico.

so far, i've seen some hilarious stuff under the hood of my car, but the chassis and body are excellent -- better than my last car, which was 100% japanese sourced and built in Honda's flagship Suzuka plant (the one right next to honda's famous testing ground: Suzuka circuit , home of the japanese GP). that said, the suzuka-built driveline is a near pinnacle of automated motor assembly.

Honda's first generation rear wheel drive sports cars tend to understeer due to the 16 inch wheels they come included with and I wished NSX were more accessible as changing the clutch and spark plugs are too much of a pain taking around 2 hours or more because of its cramped mid ship layout.

[mkawa]

yep, and ironically their second generation rwd sports model (the s2000) was prone to snap oversteer (power off AND on) in the first couple of model years. they softed up the rear a bit (smaller rear sway diameter) and went rear staggered (wider rear wheels) after that.

[mkawa]

also, my lightweight battery and evap reroute kit are showing up today -- huzzah

[Tarzan]

I've seen a white Abarth in my neighborhood, sharp-looking car.

[mkawa]

ah, but have you listened to it yet?

[redred]

also, my lightweight battery and evap reroute kit are showing up today -- huzzah

Looking forward to that! 

[mkawa]

long and unfortunate day. stripped one of the insane hardened or galvanized or whatever seatbelt bolts trying to get it out. goddamn bolt is basically harder than any drill bit i own, so that was fun

and i threw a code but i have no idea what because it's shockingly hard to find a reasonable elm327 device and free software combo. seriously, what? this really needs to be a prime directive on gearhack. happened at idle so i suspect it was the throttle body. ordered mine way after the initial bad batch so question mark?

on the upside ryephile's reroute rocks and it turns out the headway batteries are a swap in for the factory battery, so that was nice

[redred]

Found this car today.  Really love the aggressive front end!!!

[mkawa]

you're going on the palomar drive right?

seems to have turned into a pretty big meetup :O

i asked shagh already, but spread the word that i have a set of rear black '13 abarth cloth seats i'm getting rid of. if i can't find someone to take them i'm going to have to toss them or something, and that would be a serious shame (worst case maybe i can get my studio to take them? doubt it because of liability..).

ryephile's evap reroute is the real deal by the way. the headway headquarters starter batteries also real deal material so far, and the MPx bored out TB just throws a couple codes (2172, 0106/0105) a couple times while the ecu is figuring out the new fuel trims. after a couple cycles of this the ecu just figures itself out and everything works perfectly.

finally, if you're afraid of pulling vacuum lines, i have a bunch of extra emissions hose and am not in any way afraid of pulling the bizarre jungle gym of stock evap lines.

[redred]

Yeah I'm looking forward to it.

I'll pass the word along. You did the rear seat delete?  Silly question, but what if you decide to sell the car??  Wouldn't it be best to keep the seats?