Leopold 660C at EliteKeyboards

[elitekeyboards]

Admin Note: this topic was split from here. by request from OP

Hi gang,

Thought I'd drop in here since we've received a couple emails about this GB. While we have no obligation to say anything, we do have long connections to this community and I wanted to address some comments people have made as well.

I'll do this first:

TL,DR; We're getting a small shipment of FC660Cs in tomorrow and more in June, so they'll likely go on sale tomorrow or Saturday. The price will be slightly lower than what boost is offering, but you get our support.

The nitty gritty:

Of course you guys are free to do whatever you like, even though EK has exclusive distributorship of Leopold in the US, these GBs are not of any issue to us because they cannot match our price or service. I'm aware that the success of this group buy is probably two-fold; partly because boost has a good reputation here, but also because after EK has seemingly not taken the initiative to bring other recent Leopold products to the US; some people are understandably skeptical if any new Leopold products, like the FC660, will come at all and therefore take advantage of GBs instead of waiting for EK to deliver.

Aside: I want everyone to know that EK has very good reasons for what products we decided to carry. We want to fulfill customer expectations, but not at the cost of ruining our reputation with broken promises which would put the health of our business at risk. This is much easier said than done when it comes to niche products sourced from young companies on the other side of the planet, as we sorely found out with FILCO years ago, and while I wish I could share all the whys and whats, we unfortunately are not at liberty to discuss details of our suppliers' businesses and manufacturing. So I can only ask for your understanding; we do what we do in both our interests.

So, should you go through this GB or wait for EK to put these on sale?

Reasons to GB:
- Our supply this month is very limited; you might get lucky and get one sooner through the GB after EK sells out.
- EK does not ship to your country
- EK does not falsify customs value for foreign shipments
- You want to support boost

Reasons NOT to GB:
- If you're in the US or Canada and you fancy a warranty and support.
- If you're outside of the US or Canada and you fancy a liable seller and support; i.e. replacement parts, etc.
- You want to pay a lower retail price
- You're skeptical if boost can guarantee you get a working product and wonder if he will be liable if it is lost or damaged in transit (keep in mind that insurance for international packages cannot be higher than the customs value).
- These boards are in short supply this month. Unless boost has a direct line to Leopold and has already secured the stock for this groupbuy, then you may be disappointed with how long it takes to get your board...and end up paying more to boot.

Why might you want a warranty or to buy this board from EK?

- This is the first OEM Topre keyboard made in China. I'm under the impression that Topre is working very hard to make sure the factory is working to Topre standards, but the outcome is still unknown. We will not know for months.
- Even if you are in another country, we still offer support in the way of parts and troubleshooting and even the occasional replacement.
- Full liability for lost or damaged products.

I wanted to address this comment directly:

I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.

Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it.  I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).

Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?

If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).

I'll correct you since you have no data from which to draw such a conclusion. Topre has a manufacturing goal of only 1 in 10,000 failure rate in the first year, and they are very close to living up to it, but Topre customers have very high standards (and they should for what these boards cost) so boards occasionally come back for fit and finish issues such as misaligned switch springs or cases, inconsistent key weighting, squeaking keys, or broken parts. Likelihood is you won't need the EK warranty, but buying from us, regardless of your location entitles you to parts and support for as long as you have the product.

BTW, someone did RMA a board to us that looked like it was dipped in Kerosene and used as a torch. I didn't laugh at him, but I did ignore him.

[Guillairmo]

beast ^

[Michael]

More

Hi gang,

Thought I'd drop in here since we've received a couple emails about this GB. While we have no obligation to say anything, we do have long connections to this community and I wanted to address some comments people have made as well.

I'll do this first:

TL,DR; We're getting a small shipment of FC660Cs in tomorrow and more in June, so they'll likely go on sale tomorrow or Saturday. The price will be slightly lower than what boost is offering, but you get our support.

The nitty gritty:

Of course you guys are free to do whatever you like, even though EK has exclusive distributorship of Leopold in the US, these GBs are not of any issue to us because they cannot match our price or service. I'm aware that the success of this group buy is probably two-fold; partly because boost has a good reputation here, but also because after EK has seemingly not taken the initiative to bring other recent Leopold products to the US; some people are understandably skeptical if any new Leopold products, like the FC660, will come at all and therefore take advantage of GBs instead of waiting for EK to deliver.

Aside: I want everyone to know that EK has very good reasons for what products we decided to carry. We want to fulfill customer expectations, but not at the cost of ruining our reputation with broken promises which would put the health of our business at risk. This is much easier said than done when it comes to niche products sourced from young companies on the other side of the planet, as we sorely found out with FILCO years ago, and while I wish I could share all the whys and whats, we unfortunately are not at liberty to discuss details of our suppliers' businesses and manufacturing. So I can only ask for your understanding; we do what we do in both our interests.

So, should you go through this GB or wait for EK to put these on sale?

Reasons to GB:
- Our supply this month is very limited; you might get lucky and get one sooner through the GB after EK sells out.
- EK does not ship to your country
- EK does not falsify customs value for foreign shipments
- You want to support boost

Reasons NOT to GB:
- If you're in the US or Canada and you fancy a warranty and support.
- If you're outside of the US or Canada and you fancy a liable seller and support; i.e. replacement parts, etc.
- You want to pay a lower retail price
- You're skeptical if boost can guarantee you get a working product and wonder if he will be liable if it is lost or damaged in transit (keep in mind that insurance for international packages cannot be higher than the customs value).
- These boards are in short supply this month. Unless boost has a direct line to Leopold and has already secured the stock for this groupbuy, then you may be disappointed with how long it takes to get your board...and end up paying more to boot.

Why might you want a warranty or to buy this board from EK?

- This is the first OEM Topre keyboard made in China. I'm under the impression that Topre is working very hard to make sure the factory is working to Topre standards, but the outcome is still unknown. We will not know for months.
- Even if you are in another country, we still offer support in the way of parts and troubleshooting and even the occasional replacement.
- Full liability for lost or damaged products.

I wanted to address this comment directly:

I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.

Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it.  I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).

Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?

If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).

I'll correct you since you have no data from which to draw such a conclusion. Topre has a manufacturing goal of only 1 in 10,000 failure rate in the first year, and they are very close to living up to it, but Topre customers have very high standards (and they should for what these boards cost) so boards occasionally come back for fit and finish issues such as misaligned switch springs or cases, inconsistent key weighting, squeaking keys, or broken parts. Likelihood is you won't need the EK warranty, but buying from us, regardless of your location entitles you to parts and support for as long as you have the product.

BTW, someone did RMA a board to us that looked like it was dipped in Kerosene and used as a torch. I didn't laugh at him, but I did ignore him.

[VesperSAINT]

[Glod]

I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is

[Michael]

I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is

Not sure I see an insult in there anywhere, just plain facts. If boost wants to offer coverage for loss or damage, or be responsible for replacing the keyboard in either event, then I guess you could make an argument for that. But if not, Brian brings up several valid points.

[Glod]

I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is

Not sure I see an insult in there anywhere, just plain facts. If boost wants to offer coverage for loss or damage, or be responsible for replacing the keyboard in either event, then I guess you could make an argument for that. But if not, Brian brings up several valid points.

I agree they are valid points, especially about the warranty and the facts about the origin of the keyboard was helpful

I dunno I guess it's just me then, carry on

[qtan5370]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

I am speaking this because we will face it again and again the competition  between exclusive distributorship and international seller won't end soon. It is very important that we have rule a agreements upon how we behavior. Jumping into someone's selling post to say such thing is like I went to your website post my selling information. Just think about what will be your reaction to such thing? I am might also able to sell this board as same as you could, think about that, what happen if I go to your website and starting that I can sell lower price then your selling right now and provide the same support as you can?

I have no business with this group buy, just drop in by accident. But I want to support the community by sharing my view. I am have no what against ek said, but I do against he address the issue under business name in the post. 

[Elrick]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

Qtan has correctly labelled him right here.  As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.

If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him to get away with this type of behaviour.  In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?

For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there  .

[Michael]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

Qtan has correctly labelled him right here.  As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.

If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him the get away with this type of behaviour.  In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?

For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there  .

I guess ignorance is bliss.

[sordna]

qtan makes some good points... EK could keep it short and only comment to defend themselves on whatever negative was said about them, without the sales pitch on someone else's GB thread.

On the other hand, Boost recently stated the group buy ended today at 10pm EST, and EK posted AFTER the group buy ended. So what EK did wasn't as bad as was made out to be, although still a bit questionable :-/

So this isn't hurting boost in any way, and besides, I think the GB was only to provide a service, not profit. This is proven by the fact he chose to end the GB several days earlier than what was stated in the OP.

So all in all no harm done, I'm sure the GB will do fine, and it's also nice to see this interesting keyboard brought by EK.

My main beef about the whole thing is that this keyboard is lacking 2 important physical keys (for pgup/pgdown) when there is clearly room for them :-)

[qtan5370]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

Qtan has correctly labelled him right here.  As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.

If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him to get away with this type of behaviour.  In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?

For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there  .

Rule is very clear set after some issue happened in past. We just has to remind that rules should be followed. It is ok to provide clarify things if it is miss leading or harmful, and all member will be happy to hear that.   

[elitekeyboards]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

I am speaking this because we will face it again and again the competition  between exclusive distributorship and international seller won't end soon. It is very important that we have rule a agreements upon how we behavior. Jumping into someone's selling post to say such thing is like I went to your website post my selling information. Just think about what will be your reaction to such thing? I am might also able to sell this board as same as you could, think about that, what happen if I go to your website and starting that I can sell lower price then your selling right now and provide the same support as you can?

I have no business with this group buy, just drop in by accident. But I want to support the community by sharing my view. I am have no what against ek said, but I do against he address the issue under business name in the post. 

Hi qtan,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by your logic, my loyalties and respect should be to someone who runs a GB, but not to people who are participating? So, if people are getting a sour deal I should just stay silent??

I REALLY am not here to advertise. I posted here as a courtesy to customers. I don't need 30 sales bad enough to piss on someone's supposed goodwill to the community, nor do I have some overwhelming desire to educate people about the realities of buyer's remorse. However, as far as I'm aware a GB is not a business and a person who runs a GB often takes a loss, but does so because they want to contribute to the community and/or seek respect. GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous.

How would boost be contributing to the community if he charged people more for a product than they could get elsewhere while offering less service? If he is truly committed to spreading some kind of common good or knowledge about keyboards around here, then he would encourage people to get the best deal they can in a way that benefits the community the best they can; which in this case would be supporting your local distributors. Otherwise, boost is just another competitor in a capitalist market.

[elitekeyboards]

qtan makes some good points... EK could keep it short and only comment to defend themselves on whatever negative was said about them, without the sales pitch on someone else's GB thread.

On the other hand, Boost recently stated the group buy ended today at 10pm EST, and EK posted AFTER the group buy ended. So what EK did wasn't as bad as was made out to be, although still a bit questionable :-/

So this isn't hurting boost in any way, and besides, I think the GB was only to provide a service, not profit. This is proven by the fact he chose to end the GB several days earlier than what was stated in the OP.

So all in all no harm done, I'm sure the GB will do fine, and it's also nice to see this interesting keyboard brought by EK.

My main beef about the whole thing is that this keyboard is lacking 2 important physical keys (for pgup/pgdown) when there is clearly room for them :-)

I'm only here to offer what I feel is beneficial information to members of this community. As an exclusive distributor, it is fully in my power to find out who would ship 30+ FC660Cs to this market, and to stop them from doing so. It just takes one phone call, but I'm not picking up the phone to do this.

I would not have posted here if upsetting the GB was my intention; I would just crash the party without anyone being the wiser.

You bring up very valid and honest points. However, it's pretty obvious that this was done with a motive to bring potential sales to your own website. It's a slap in the face for the GB and Boost if you asked me. The only relevant thing needed to be said was when they were going to be available, and price. Then GH members or your potential customers can decide themselves which route to go. I'm not saying this because I'm picking sides, but rather saying there could have been a much better way to advertise or be informative.

The demand for this board far exceeds the supply at the moment, so making potential sales here was and is not my intention. (See my above comment to sordna.) People asked for information, and I figured this thread was the fastest way to reach the most people. I've only commented on the pros and cons of the GB because I honestly feel that any GB that thwarts international distribution contracts does not benefit the community as a whole.

Also, I question why you're telling me that I should have just dropped the minimum information relevant to availability and been on my way. As, you're seemingly boiling the whole purpose of GH down to a bunch of fledgling businessmen falling over each other to run group buys and sprinkling the forum with advertisements for their wares. I don't think anyone here wants that.

[qtan5370]

It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.

Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.

Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it  is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition.  If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.

Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous.  I know many others group buyer runner does so.

Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.

And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.

 

[elitekeyboards]

It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.

Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.

Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it  is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition.  If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.

Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous.  I know many others group buyer runner does so.

Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.

And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.

Hi Qtan,

You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.

So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.

[kelske]

Jesus this escalated quickly..

I'm disappointed in the overall direction that this conversation has gone in.. I can't really offer any additional breadth to the conversation, so I'll just let it play out.. I hope this is resolved promptly to the benefit of both the GH community and EK as a business.

[qtan5370]

Hi Qtan,

You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.

So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.
[/quote]


 I don't have the right to decide if you go beyond the rule. But I am just questioning. We all know how business works, members make their choice. I can't ask other things, but I am right to ask you to stop branch marking people, it is a bad move.

[elitekeyboards]

I don't have the right to decide if you go beyond the rule. But I am just questioning. We all know how business works, members make their choice. I can't ask other things, but I am right to ask you to stop branch marking people, it is a bad move.

It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:

E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.

[Elrick]

It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:

E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.

I really LOVE this.  You are the only person here touting his own business aka Elitekeyboards who now want the Admin's here to stop anyone from organizing a Group Buy to purchase anything.  What's all this really about besides stopping our freedoms which a whole lot of people have given their lives for over the years.  I don't think having some greedy little man to start dictating his ONLY rule(s) upon everyone here on this forum.

I didn't know that Geekhack has suddenly become your private agency?

As I understand it, Geekhack is INDEPENDENT meaning it is NOT a store nor a registered BUSINESS linked to you Brian.  Instead it's a public forum.  With public forums we the people who organize ourselves and others to help swap, purchase or make anything we want and distribute items to whomever wants it.

AGAIN I keep stating the bleeding obvious, who the HELL are you to lay down the laws for this FORUM?

Go elsewhere and push your business because it's not wanted here.  Here is where the people want to discuss and organize a Group Buy that has NOTHING to do with YOU.

Wake up and smell the coffee, because it's not yours to drink  .

[qtan5370]

I don't have the right to decide if you go beyond the rule. But I am just questioning. We all know how business works, members make their choice. I can't ask other things, but I am right to ask you to stop branch marking people, it is a bad move.

It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:

E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.

You can might the suggestion. We hold a great disagreement upon this issue. Make the rule clearly is very important, it is not fair for someone start a group buy then latter things like this happen and people start put out from it. Every buying decision is made base on the information at the spot vary for each customer, and a reasonable buyer uphold the deal they made and search information for better deal.

It is up to Geekhack to decide what they make the rule. Until anything new come up, we enjoy our group buy.

[Elrick]

It is up to Geekhack to decide what they make the rule. Until anything new come up, we enjoy our group buy.

HERE HERE....... the most enlightening comment thus far.

[zoolzoo]

It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.

Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.

Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it  is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition.  If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.

Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous.  I know many others group buyer runner does so.

Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.

And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.

Hi Qtan,

You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.

So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.

You keep stating that you can stop this GB. Do you really have the power to control this type commerce occurring via private channels? How do you have any control over a private party in Korea (or wherever) buying some boards off the shelf and sending them to some "friends" in the US? In contrast, I can see where you could take action If I sourced a bunch of Leo's and opened an online store front. I'm more curious than anything here...seems like sort of a stretch.

[qtan5370]

It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:

E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.

I really LOVE this.  You are the only person here touting his own business aka Elitekeyboards who now want the Admin's here to stop anyone from organizing a Group Buy to purchase anything.  What's all this really about besides stopping our freedoms which a whole lot of people have given their lives for over the years.  I don't think having some greedy little man to start dictating his ONLY rule(s) upon everyone here on this forum.

I didn't know that Geekhack has suddenly become your agency?

As I understand it, Geekhack is INDEPENDENT meaning it is NOT a store nor a registered BUSINESS linked to you Brian.  Instead it's a public forum.  With public forums we the people who organize ourselves and others to help swap, purchase or make anything we want and distribute items to whomever wants it.

AGAIN I keep stating the bleeding obvious, who the HELL are you to lay down the laws for this FORUM?

Go elsewhere and push your business because it's not wanted here.  Here is were the people want to discuss and organize a Group Buy that has NOTHING to do with YOU.

Wake up and smell the coffee, because it's not yours to drink  .

You said what I really want to say, if geekhack open a debate on it, I will provide everything to support your point. It is not the first time, in my long business life, challenge business that think they have the right to control the market or have exclusive right to sell something. I understand the arguments of both sides, but my ground is clear. Saying such thing really make me upset about how eiltekeyboard conduct their business. We like business owner come down with reason and respect to talk with problems. Threaten us is not a good idea.

[qtan5370]

It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.

Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.

Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it  is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition.  If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.

Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous.  I know many others group buyer runner does so.

Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.

And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.

Hi Qtan,

You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.

So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.

You keep stating that you can stop this GB. Do you really have the power to control this type commerce occurring via private channels? How do you have any control over a private party in Korea (or wherever) buying some boards off the shelf and sending them to some "friends" in the US? In contrast, I can see where you could take action If I sourced a bunch of Leo's and opened an online store front. I'm more curious than anything here.

I bet he won't....

[i3oilermaker]

More

Hi gang,

Thought I'd drop in here since we've received a couple emails about this GB. While we have no obligation to say anything, we do have long connections to this community and I wanted to address some comments people have made as well.

I'll do this first:

TL,DR; We're getting a small shipment of FC660Cs in tomorrow and more in June, so they'll likely go on sale tomorrow or Saturday. The price will be slightly lower than what boost is offering, but you get our support.

The nitty gritty:

Of course you guys are free to do whatever you like, even though EK has exclusive distributorship of Leopold in the US, these GBs are not of any issue to us because they cannot match our price or service. I'm aware that the success of this group buy is probably two-fold; partly because boost has a good reputation here, but also because after EK has seemingly not taken the initiative to bring other recent Leopold products to the US; some people are understandably skeptical if any new Leopold products, like the FC660, will come at all and therefore take advantage of GBs instead of waiting for EK to deliver.

Aside: I want everyone to know that EK has very good reasons for what products we decided to carry. We want to fulfill customer expectations, but not at the cost of ruining our reputation with broken promises which would put the health of our business at risk. This is much easier said than done when it comes to niche products sourced from young companies on the other side of the planet, as we sorely found out with FILCO years ago, and while I wish I could share all the whys and whats, we unfortunately are not at liberty to discuss details of our suppliers' businesses and manufacturing. So I can only ask for your understanding; we do what we do in both our interests.

So, should you go through this GB or wait for EK to put these on sale?

Reasons to GB:
- Our supply this month is very limited; you might get lucky and get one sooner through the GB after EK sells out.
- EK does not ship to your country
- EK does not falsify customs value for foreign shipments
- You want to support boost

Reasons NOT to GB:
- If you're in the US or Canada and you fancy a warranty and support.
- If you're outside of the US or Canada and you fancy a liable seller and support; i.e. replacement parts, etc.
- You want to pay a lower retail price
- You're skeptical if boost can guarantee you get a working product and wonder if he will be liable if it is lost or damaged in transit (keep in mind that insurance for international packages cannot be higher than the customs value).
- These boards are in short supply this month. Unless boost has a direct line to Leopold and has already secured the stock for this groupbuy, then you may be disappointed with how long it takes to get your board...and end up paying more to boot.

Why might you want a warranty or to buy this board from EK?

- This is the first OEM Topre keyboard made in China. I'm under the impression that Topre is working very hard to make sure the factory is working to Topre standards, but the outcome is still unknown. We will not know for months.
- Even if you are in another country, we still offer support in the way of parts and troubleshooting and even the occasional replacement.
- Full liability for lost or damaged products.

I wanted to address this comment directly:

I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.

Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it.  I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).

Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?

If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).

I'll correct you since you have no data from which to draw such a conclusion. Topre has a manufacturing goal of only 1 in 10,000 failure rate in the first year, and they are very close to living up to it, but Topre customers have very high standards (and they should for what these boards cost) so boards occasionally come back for fit and finish issues such as misaligned switch springs or cases, inconsistent key weighting, squeaking keys, or broken parts. Likelihood is you won't need the EK warranty, but buying from us, regardless of your location entitles you to parts and support for as long as you have the product.

BTW, someone did RMA a board to us that looked like it was dipped in Kerosene and used as a torch. I didn't laugh at him, but I did ignore him.

You bring up very valid and honest points. However, it's pretty obvious that this was done with a motive to bring potential sales to your own website. It's a slap in the face for the GB and Boost if you asked me. The only relevant thing needed to be said was when they were going to be available, and price. Then GH members or your potential customers can decide themselves which route to go. I'm not saying this because I'm picking sides, but rather saying there could have been a much better way to advertise or be informative.

This ^

[vivalarevolución]

Wow this got interesting overnight.  I can say with complete confidence I will never buy anything from Elite Keyboards as a result of this exchange.  I think some professional courtesies of business were violated here. 

If I were Topre, I would reconsider their exclusive distributor of their keyboards in North America.  It's not helping their business.

Yea, and all I wanted was one keyboard.

[Michael]

I think if you have the admins bring all of this conversation into off-topic, you can freely discuss it without interrupting the group buy members.


Just a thought....

[mkawa]

Hi EK,

A group buy is a group buy is a group buy. If you feel it is a breach of contract on someone else's part, the proper action as you very well know is to notify them that they are in breach of contract and notify them of either imminent legal action or invocation of the penalties stated in the contract, if any.

In the mean time, you are crapping all over this thread despite multiple warnings and strong community backlash.

If you would like to discuss your supplier contracts, please do so either in off-topic or in your own vendor forum (a single PM to me can re-establish it).

If you would like to whine about nothing in particular, please do so in off-topic.

I do not want to see you post again in this thread. If you do, I will split the thread myself into off-topic.

Naturally, Boost will not be involved in any moderation or administrative decisions involving this thread or any threads related to it.

-kawa

[Shadovved]

Hi EK,

A group buy is a group buy is a group buy. If you feel it is a breach of contract on someone else's part, the proper action as you very well know is to notify them that they are in breach of contract and notify them of either imminent legal action or invocation of the penalties stated in the contract, if any.

In the mean time, you are crapping all over this thread despite multiple warnings and strong community backlash.

If you would like to discuss your supplier contracts, please do so either in off-topic or in your own vendor forum (a single PM to me can re-establish it).

If you would like to whine about nothing in particular, please do so in off-topic.

I do not want to see you post again in this thread. If you do, I will split the thread myself into off-topic.

Naturally, Boost will not be involved in any moderation or administrative decisions involving this thread or any threads related to it.

-kawa

Nicely put, sir.

Clear, concise and convincing

[whiteduck]

Hi EK,

A group buy is a group buy is a group buy. If you feel it is a breach of contract on someone else's part, the proper action as you very well know is to notify them that they are in breach of contract and notify them of either imminent legal action or invocation of the penalties stated in the contract, if any.

In the mean time, you are crapping all over this thread despite multiple warnings and strong community backlash.

If you would like to discuss your supplier contracts, please do so either in off-topic or in your own vendor forum (a single PM to me can re-establish it).

If you would like to whine about nothing in particular, please do so in off-topic.

I do not want to see you post again in this thread. If you do, I will split the thread myself into off-topic.

Naturally, Boost will not be involved in any moderation or administrative decisions involving this thread or any threads related to it.

-kawa

/hammer

well played <3 

I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/

[esoomenona]

I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/

That is, until there is another CC sale, right?

[whiteduck]

I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/

That is, until there is another CC sale, right?

obviously <3

[Shadovved]

I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/

That is, until there is another CC sale, right?

Maybe CC will change to techkeys! )

[Macsmasher]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

Qtan has correctly labelled him right here.  As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.

If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him to get away with this type of behaviour.  In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?

For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there  .

Oh, for crying out loud, take a Midol and quit whining like a little girl. The purpose of the GB was to get us some of these boards. What better place for EK to post than here?

I appreciate Boost's efforts in putting together a GB. And if he's doing this out of the goodness of his heart with no profit on top, EK just saved him a lot of time and trouble. He should be tickled pink. The only reason I can see for him to be upset with EK informing us that they will sell these boards is because he's making money on the deal. As a conservative and an unapologetic capitalist, I have no problem with that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this was a public forum? Which means, anybody can post. And in a public forum that will impact my wallet, I want to be made aware of my options, all of them. You on the other hand prefer an isolationist approach. So move to Cuba.

Edit:

Boost himself brought up the rumor that EK might be carrying the 660C...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43134.120

And when EK responds to confirm the rumor, everybody gets all butt hurt. Yeah...that makes a lot of sense.

[demik]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

did brian **** your girlfriend or something? i dont know what your deal is, but your constant **** talking about him and EK is getting annoying. you had one bad experience with him, fine, don't purchase from him. but stop dragging his name through the dirt because you're a whiny little *****.

[Halverson]

EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.

I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser  .

did brian **** your girlfriend or something? i dont know what your deal is, but your constant **** talking about him and EK is getting annoying. you had one bad experience with him, fine, don't purchase from him. but stop dragging his name through the dirt because you're a whiny little *****.

And thus spoke demik, and all was good

[daerid]

While I have had nothing but positive experiences with EliteKeyboards, I must say that the statement about ending the GB caught me by surprise.

[shibbyllama889]

I dunno, it was a little odd he threw his weight around (which might be warranted, I don't know) but it wasn't necessary. But it isn't changing my opinion or shopping habits. I've had good experiences with him in the past and I'm not offended by what he said. I think speaking out in the thread was a fine place because we were all wondering about EK stock anyway. Why would he reactivate his forum and then create a new thread which no one is aware of? I think the threat of threadcrapping is too high around here, it's just not that big of a deal.

[jwaz]

While I have had nothing but positive experiences with EliteKeyboards, I must say that the statement about ending the GB caught me by surprise. I do NOT appreciate that attitude,

Caught me off guard as well. I don't see why he would feel so threatened by it. I doubt our community accounts for a large portion of his sales.

[SmallFry]

[metalliqaz]

I think most of you people are being complete psychos, including the mods.

EK says they can enforce their North American exclusivity "with one phone call" and I believe him.  It doesn't matter if I agree with him or not.  I won't even bring up First Sale Doctrine because it makes no difference.  I believe him.

kawa: you censor EK like that, maybe that pushes him over the edge and he pulls the plug.  You ever consider that?

That being said, it is in everyone's best interests to know their options.  Why is there so much HATE?  God damn.  If qtan and elrick didn't start attacking EK like f'ing crazy then everyone would still be happy.  People would understand their options for buying retail and boosts GB could continue without the drama.  What do we have instead?  What I see in this thread is EK acting professional and everyone else being ****s.

[Turbo Slaab]

I think most of you people are being complete psychos, including the mods.

EK says they can enforce their North American exclusivity "with one phone call" and I believe him.  It doesn't matter if I agree with him or not.  I won't even bring up First Sale Doctrine because it makes no difference.  I believe him.

kawa: you censor EK like that, maybe that pushes him over the edge and he pulls the plug.  You ever consider that?

That being said, it is in everyone's best interests to know their options.  Why is there so much HATE?  God damn.  If qtan and elrick didn't start attacking EK like f'ing crazy then everyone would still be happy.  People would understand their options for buying retail and boosts GB could continue without the drama.  What do we have instead?  What I see in this thread is EK acting professional and everyone else being ****s.

How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?

Kawa didn't censor anyone. He made an attempt to re-rail that thread by moving the discussion.



The OG post from EK was not the place for that and his responses after sunk him deeper.

[metalliqaz]

How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?

I'm guessing you know about as much as I do about the specifics of how these products are imported.  That is to say, ZERO.  So don't just make assumptions.

Kawa didn't censor anyone. He made an attempt to re-rail that thread by moving the discussion.

Saying, if effect, "shut up or get out" qualifies, in my humble opinion.

The OG post from EK was not the place for that and his responses after sunk him deeper.

I think it was definitely on-topic.  Like I said, it's better for everyone to be informed.

[WRXChris]

How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?

I'm guessing you know about as much as I do about the specifics of how these products are imported.  That is to say, ZERO.  So don't just make assumptions.

Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over). 

His arrogance and attitude toward the community that likely makes up a significant chunk of his business is eyebrow-raising, IMO.

It's the I can shut this group buy down with one phone call (based on assumptions), after crapping up boost's GB thread (against forum rules) that upset people, and rightfully so.  He started the post off with "While we have no obligation to say anything" which further implies that he doesn't really care about us as a community, and from what I've seen, EK usually only stops in to post when people badmouth his business or bring competition.

[daerid]

From what I understand, boost has a proxy (i.e: an individual) who is willing to work with him on getting the boards. But I don't want to put words in his mouth. If he wants to come in here and explain, that's up to him.

kawa: you censor EK like that, maybe that pushes him over the edge and he pulls the plug.  You ever consider that?

Are you essentially saying that we should let somebody or some business do whatever they want and act however they want without speaking up just because they're the sole source of some product? That's doesn't seem right.

[Turbo Slaab]

How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?

I'm guessing you know about as much as I do about the specifics of how these products are imported.  That is to say, ZERO.  So don't just make assumptions.

Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over). 

His arrogance and attitude toward the community that likely makes up a significant chunk of his business is eyebrow-raising, IMO.

It's the I can shut this group buy down with one phone call (based on assumptions), after crapping up boost's GB thread (against forum rules) that upset people, and rightfully so.  He started the post off with "While we have no obligation to say anything" which further implies that he doesn't really care about us as a community, and from what I've seen, EK usually only stops in to post when people badmouth his business or bring competition.

This is how I feel. Options are always good for the community, but I believe EK crossed a line in trying to let the community know that he will stock these as well. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[metalliqaz]

Options are always good for the community, but I believe EK crossed a line in trying to let the community know that he will stock these as well. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

(emphasis added)

I'm speachless.  i feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[metalliqaz]

Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over). 

Again, I know ZERO about it, although everyone else seems to think they know everything about it.  I'll just shoot one word out there that might be a possibility:  Customs.

[Turbo Slaab]

Options are always good for the community, but I believe EK crossed a line in trying to let the community know that he will stock these as well. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

(emphasis added)

I'm speachless.  i feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Sorry, I worded that wrong. It's fine letting the community know what is coming, it was just the way it happened that was uncalled for, IMHO.