Author Topic: MYOC - Make your own caps! (Read 229173 times)

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #150 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 18:21:44 »

Hand rub with polishing compound?

ishtob · « **Reply #151 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 20:24:16 »

scarlet like this?

ishtob · « **Reply #152 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 20:25:43 »

one more thing on polishing, I'd wait a week before I start to polish it, these clear resin cure pretty slow, and polishing it now may cause you to loose that shine when it has completely cured then you would have to repolish again, removing more material

braaaiiins · « **Reply #153 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 20:49:44 »

Haha yea it does remind me of a bowling ball now that I think about it.

I really don't know how well these keys will hold up to any polishing. If I squeeze on the sides, it flexes just like my abs plastic keys, but instead of straightening out it can remain disfigured. I can correct it easily enough by pulling back on the sides, and I'll never know that it was bent in the first place. My point is that the material seems too soft and from what you've just said, ishtob, it looks like both types of clear resins suffer from this. How are your opaque casts doing? If you pressed hard with your fingernail, would you make a lasting mark?

I've made a mold design in autodesk inventor and I've sent it off for a quote for its production. I want it to be made of aluminum since that's cheap and has good oxidation resistance. Any suggestions on material? I wonder if the resin will stick to the aluminum. If it comes out to a reasonable price I'll be doubling the wall thickness of the keycap from 1mm to 2mm.

edit: forgot to address your scarlet question. I was going for something similar but the dye powder i tried did not dissolve at all (I didnt really expect it to anyway). It ended up looking like some kind of dark red clay mud so I didn't even bother trying to cast it. I was using the procion mx fabric dye. I'll try their liquid dye, dye-na-flow, next.

Oqsy · « **Reply #154 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 20:51:53 »

If you get a proper mold, look into some PBT

bloodygood · « **Reply #155 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 21:08:17 »

If you can get high quality molds of all the key shapes out of a good metal then 2mm PBT keycaps would be probably the hottest thing on the market.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #156 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 21:15:29 »

Hm, PBT... that sounds fun. I wonder if I could just melt down the PBT and use it like that. A metal mold really opens up some possibilities! Right now, I'm fantasizing about glass keycaps. I don't think that would be possible though, since the molten glass would have to have really low viscosity to be workable. Maybe someone else has some insight to this.

bloodygood · « **Reply #157 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 21:35:50 »

I have heard some good and bad things about the idea of glass keycaps. I would recommend avoiding it only because of the shattering possibility, but it is also good to remember that glass changes over time very very slowly. I think with how thin keycaps can be it could either be absolutely great or completely terrible.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #158 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 22:50:00 »

Glass will perform just fine. 2mm not an issue. Glass will be relatively heavy.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #159 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 23:05:07 »

I'm not worried about the 2mm wall really. The section i'm more worried about is the stem where the material is thinnest. I try to take a lot of care when filling that section in my mold and I still don't get perfect looking stems. Glass would be even more difficult. I can't imagine just how hot it would need to be to flow like resin. I'm really interested in making some abs/pbt caps now though. If I could easily dye those while they're molten, oh boy, that would be a lot of fun to work with. I'm thinking if glass is even considered, some kind of steel would need to be used for the mold instead of aluminum for the higher melting point. Maybe even ceramic but I fear that would be too brittle for the stem portion - it could just break off after a few casts.

litster · « **Reply #160 on:** Tue, 15 November 2011, 23:12:21 »

Carbon fiber keycaps?

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #161 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 00:20:17 »

Quote from: braaaiiins;453035

I'm not worried about the 2mm wall really. The section i'm more worried about is the stem where the material is thinnest. I try to take a lot of care when filling that section in my mold and I still don't get perfect looking stems. Glass would be even more difficult. I can't imagine just how hot it would need to be to flow like resin. I'm really interested in making some abs/pbt caps now though. If I could easily dye those while they're molten, oh boy, that would be a lot of fun to work with. I'm thinking if glass is even considered, some kind of steel would need to be used for the mold instead of aluminum for the higher melting point. Maybe even ceramic but I fear that would be too brittle for the stem portion - it could just break off after a few casts.

Depending on the application, "glass" can be strengthened many times over. Glass is not a single substance, but a composite than can have the ratios changed and various materials added/subtracted. Silica is the major component, but not the only one.

hazeluff · « **Reply #162 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 03:38:32 »

I think someone needs to try building it out of duck tape, the greatest material in the world.

Oqsy · « **Reply #163 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 12:47:20 »

Wrong. Boobs are #1.

fuah · « **Reply #164 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 14:45:16 »

Forget glass, pbt, abs and resins.

The future of key caps is chocolate.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #165 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 15:06:55 »

Quote from: fuah;453452

Forget glass, pbt, abs and resins.

The future of key caps is chocolate.

Wise words.

I'm curious to hear if you make a key cap from a brand new original key cap, if it will get shiny like ABS.

bloodygood · « **Reply #166 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 15:22:58 »

Quote from: input nirvana;453465

Wise words.

I'm curious to hear if you make a key cap from a brand new original key cap, if it will get shiny like ABS.

Are you saying to melt down a keycap and turn it into a new keycap or are you saying to make a mold from a brand new keycap? Because it is the material that mainly determines if it will become shiny or not. If you make a keycap out of ABS in the filco shape you will get shiny keycap eventually, if you make a mold of a filco keycap and then rough it up a little to add texture then use a material like pbt I doubt it will become shiny.

Oqsy · « **Reply #167 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 15:26:23 »

FYI, I think Clack copies for any purpose are a ****ty idea.

ClickClack has invested lots of time and money into making these, and he's yet to see ANY profit. If you want 10 Clacks, cough up the dough so he can make FUTURE caps.

Don't be a douche! Support ClickClack!

cactux · « **Reply #168 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 16:07:01 »

Quote from: Oqsy;453474

FYI, I think Clack copies for any purpose are a ****ty idea.

ClickClack has invested lots of time and money into making these, and he's yet to see ANY profit. If you want 10 Clacks, cough up the dough so he can make FUTURE caps.

Don't be a douche! Support ClickClack!

I think most of us are 10000% with you. So lets focus on the main subject

Oqsy · « **Reply #169 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 16:18:14 »

Ok, let's.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #170 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 16:51:56 »

Quote from: bloodygood;453471

Are you saying to melt down a keycap and turn it into a new keycap or are you saying to make a mold from a brand new keycap? Because it is the material that mainly determines if it will become shiny or not. If you make a keycap out of ABS in the filco shape you will get shiny keycap eventually, if you make a mold of a filco keycap and then rough it up a little to add texture then use a material like pbt I doubt it will become shiny.

Boy I screwed up asking that question. If you make a copy of a new ABS key cap out of the resin the cast copies are currently being made of, will the resin copies wear and get shiny sooner, later, or not at all (relative to ABS which is what most key caps are made of).

Quote from: Oqsy;453474

FYI, I think Clack copies for any purpose are a ****ty idea.

ClickClack has invested lots of time and money into making these, and he's yet to see ANY profit. If you want 10 Clacks, cough up the dough so he can make FUTURE caps.

Don't be a douche! Support ClickClack!

Of course. Hell, and it's cheaper (dollars/time/effort/quality) to get ClickClacks, plus it's the cool thing to do, and they will be better key caps. AND the Clackmaster is a way cool dude. I personally am referring to farting around making different things, not to jack the originator, but because I, you, and many people here noodle around with things. Natural born tinkerers. That's why he's casting his own caps, to make something he can't get. Or why I cut a Kinesis Contoured in half. A lot of examples on GH. I originally found GH because I thought I could just buy one already split. Many experiment trying to re-create something complex to see how it turns out. Reverse engineering. The OXY-CLEAN IDIOT KREW! lol I'm thinking about making a copy of a Kinesis case out of thicker, quieter material, and a different color. Rick at Kinesis wants to see it if I can get it done.

I just want to throw out that someone making a copy isn't necessarily with bad intent, to jack the originator, or being selfish, often it's just curiosity and to make something new. If I made something uber-cool on my own using ClickClacks keys, I would take a pic and send it to him with my thoughts that it might be a popular thing he would want to do, and maybe I could send him the cap as an example.

Sort of like those guys that go to the library, then go home and build a nuclear reactor in their garage. They're just curious.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #171 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 16:57:41 »

lol, ok let me go to his merchant to buy some. Oh wait they've been sold out. I would love to buy them from him directly. How could I not want to support his work? I really want one! I guess I should just dig out $1,000 for 10 used clacks. Do you really believe paying 100 dollars for somebody else's used clack will benefit click clack in anyway? Once I buy one, it becomes my piece of property. I could make my own house made out of millions of clack clones.

I mean seriously, if you somehow learned about someone's top secret recipe for a best selling soup, would you lose sleep over making yourself a bowl? Maybe you should just go pay him some royalty fees for cooking his soup in your own home for your own stomach. Get real. You hold yourself on a very high pedestal if you couldn't make a mold out of a piece of magnificent art. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

I'm up for criticism, but you decided to start the name calling so... bite me. Don't be a douche by calling other people douches.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #172 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:05:53 »

Braaaiiins:

The concept of giving a small royalty is ideal. Most uber-rich guys sell the idea, not the product. Hoorayyy! We have a solution! Oqsy is hard core and is probably referring to the general concept of taking anything away from ClickClack.

And I wouldn't feel right buying a $20 ClickClack and selling it for $100 but that's just me.

Any thoughts on the "getting shiny question?"

ishtob · « **Reply #173 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:09:52 »

Quote from: Oqsy;453375

Wrong. Boobs are #1.

you can't melt that and cast it though

braaaiiins · « **Reply #174 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:16:11 »

I think it will be awhile before I notice any kind of wear on these keys.

I think it's interesting that you enjoyed my royalty idea haha. I was actually joking. I don't feel like I owe the creator anything if I already own a legitimate original. Now if I start giving them away, then some kind of royalty fee would definitely make sense. If I sold them, well then with his permission there would absolutely need to be some kind of royalty fee. But fortunately, I don't fall under any of those categories. This is for my own personal pleasure. Like you said, I want to create something I cannot get anywhere else - my very own custom colors on a very cool design that already exists.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #175 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:27:57 »

Ok one more analogy and I swear I'm done on this topic. This one fits the best I think.

Sheet music can be considered like a mold for a piece of music. Now you can buy the sheet music or you can use the song that you have ownership of and analyze it to make your own duplicate sheet music for you to practice on. You'd be able to play note for note just like the original artist did. Do you owe him anything for your time and effort into learning something you've heard? Am I damaging his profits because I'm not paying him to personally play the music for me?

The silicone mold is exactly the same. I want to create my own copy and I do so by analyzing a piece that I already own. Just as I don't owe square soft royalty fees every time i play final fantasy music on my piano, I don't owe click clack for any copies that I have made for myself.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #176 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:44:54 »

Does anyone know where I can buy some raw pbt plastic?

cactux · « **Reply #177 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:47:22 »

please guys do not start again with ethics, values, copyrights, what is right and wrong in this thread. Most of us want to learn how to make our own keycaps.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #178 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:49:54 »

Agreed. Sorry, but I don't take low blows lightly. You can't expect me to just let someone call me something I'm not and have the last word. I'm not big enough for that.

hashbaz · « **Reply #179 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 17:54:37 »

Quote from: Oqsy;453474

FYI, I think Clack copies for any purpose are a ****ty idea.

ClickClack has invested lots of time and money into making these, and he's yet to see ANY profit. If you want 10 Clacks, cough up the dough so he can make FUTURE caps.

Don't be a douche! Support ClickClack!

Wait, ClickClack hasn't made any money from his incredibly valuable keys? How did that happen?

cactux · « **Reply #180 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:01:41 »

Quote from: braaaiiins;453545

Agreed. Sorry, but I don't take low blows lightly. You can't expect me to just let someone call me something I'm not and have the last word. I'm not big enough for that.

As long as You know who you are and you are sure about your values, you shall not spend energy trying to convince the others. Remember we are just virtual ;-)

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #181 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:08:54 »

Don't be offended, she's just virtual.
If you're as good as you think you are, make a key cap of this:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32263[/ATTACH]

braaaiiins · « **Reply #182 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:09:10 »

Quote from: cactux;453556

As long as You know who you are and you are sure about your values, you shall not spend energy trying to convince the others. Remember we are just virtual ;-)

Virtual or not, zombies have feelings too. I'm new to this forum and this is the first thread I've became active in. I'd rather not go down as the douche who tried to destroy clickclack (as if i could).

cactux · « **Reply #183 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:13:08 »

BTW Welcome :-). Please kee us updated with your findings

braaaiiins · « **Reply #184 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:23:10 »

Thanks! =D

There seems to be an obsession with boob keys. I might try to make some for you guys to see for the f and j keys. Need to get some modeling clay first.

bloodygood · « **Reply #185 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:27:14 »

Quote from: braaaiiins;453572

Thanks! =D

There seems to be an obsession with boob keys. I might try to make some for you guys to see for the f and j keys. Need to get some modeling clay first.

And now we finally know what that nub is on the f and J keys ಠ_ಠ don't think I didn't see what you did there.

On a completely different note. My girlfriend decided she wanted a special enter key so I get to create a mold and customize the keyface for her.

braaaiiins · « **Reply #186 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:29:52 »

No, no! I'm a dovorak user! =P

Quote from: bloodygood;453578

And now we finally know what that nub is on the f and J keys ಠ_ಠ don't think I didn't see what you did there.

On a completely different note. My girlfriend decided she wanted a special enter key so I get to create a mold and customize the keyface for her.

Oqsy · « **Reply #187 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:52:50 »

Reread my post. I didn't say you are or were a douche, I was begging you to make the right choice and not be one. There's a difference. I'm a HUGE ClickClack fan, and do trade PMs with him from time to time, and I consider him the goto guy on key caps. Do I think its illegal to plop a clack into silicone and make a copy with a more crude material like urethane? Of course not. Does it bother me? Yeah, a little, only because I can quickly forsee this snowballing into bootlegging, not by you, but perhaps by the less scrupulous among us. This makes me feel bad for CC and all his hard work and creative energy, challenges overcome, etc.

So, I meant nothing personal by that remark, but I do take personal offense to the thought of CC losing motivation to continue. (he's said something to that effect in response to chinese or american knockoffs of his products/art).

I DO like I_N's idea of trying color schemes, variations on molds and submitting them to CC as suggestions for future offerings. GH has lots if talent, and CC *does do requests

braaaiiins · « **Reply #188 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:18:30 »

I can appreciate you looking out for him. He's lucky to have a friend like you. But you must try to understand that I am not harming click clack by attempting to make my own molds based off of his design. If anyone is ever curious about my duplicated keycaps, I'll be the first to point out who designed them. You'll be hardpressed to find any pictures that I post of them in the future without a big credit going to CC. It sucks that there are knockoffs going for sale and I hope he finds a way to make his business flourish. I wouldn't be one of those people, so I really don't see the harm.

hazeluff · « **Reply #189 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:41:58 »

I don't think it's "right" to copy a cap such as CC's. It's a shame his stuff will be bootlegged.

My opinion on beating the bootlegged one isn't to pump out new designs, but ensure they are quality products that you (CC) makes. China doesn't replicate quality, it's too expensive and time consuming. It's the way to shine among the load of crap that is chinese bootlegs. So like tri color skulls is good. Things like candy corn was good. I absolutely love the frosted-look keys.

I personally would not duplicate his keys, even if I own some of his keys and wanted a couple extras. Kudos to CC. I'm thinking of starting something like what he's doing. = P

Oqsy · « **Reply #190 on:** Wed, 16 November 2011, 23:01:47 »

Brains, you still sound defensive, so I'll try one last time to reassure you, I'm not attacking or accusing you. I'm impressed and intruiged by the possibilities of ghers molding our own caps. Hell, its exactly how CC got started

The post that offended you was directed at any would be bootleggers looking to make a buck off CC's designs, not at you, as you'd clarified your intentions earlier in the thread. I apologize for not being more clear, and posting that out of sequence. I'm going to stay OT from here on, apologies to everyone for my mess.

Input Nirvana · « **Reply #191 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 00:34:19 »

Damn you Oqsy! Now you've pissed off the new guy! lol

Not to stir things, but I think it will be a kick to see someone with a different viewpoint and tastes, take ClickClacks idea and hard work, and twist/tweak/modify it in his own special way. It's a form of creativity to make it your own, and I find it inspiring. And since the new person is putting their energy into tweaking an existing idea, and isn''t totally wasted tired from thinking, designing, juggling, managing, etc, they sometimes have the ability to breathe new life into things. I'm thinking it may even give ClickClack a little boost of pride (but a cautious one).

Geekhack as a whole is educational and inspiring, it's at the core/heart of this site.

litster · « **Reply #192 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 01:11:19 »

People do plenty of "things" in the comfort of their own home. And then there are people discuss openly why "things" they do in the comfort of their own home is perfectly legal and doesn't hurt anyone.

ishtob · « **Reply #193 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 01:47:36 »

I like making things:

bloodygood · « **Reply #194 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 09:27:36 »

Thank you ishtob for getting this thread back on topic. I don't like seeing all the fighting between geekhackers here. Honestly each person will do what they are going to do, now perhaps we can get back to talking about design process and improving methods for the mold and actual key production? I would personally love to see a semi-transparent blue keycap. So far it seems like the options have been clear, red, or the slightly green/blue one (called glass) made by Clickclack which of course all of his transparent ones are not readily available for purchase. He is still working hard on those prototypes and I can't wait to see where those go in the next couple of months.

hazeluff · « **Reply #195 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:11:50 »

Quote from: bloodygood;453976

Thank you ishtob for getting this thread back on topic. I don't like seeing all the fighting between geekhackers here. Honestly each person will do what they are going to do, now perhaps we can get back to talking about design process and improving methods for the mold and actual key production? I would personally love to see a semi-transparent blue keycap. So far it seems like the options have been clear, red, or the slightly green/blue one (called glass) made by Clickclack which of course all of his transparent ones are not readily available for purchase. He is still working hard on those prototypes and I can't wait to see where those go in the next couple of months.

Im pretty sure you can .make any color key that you want by placing the right dye. Im interested in placin things inside clear resin.u

braaaiiins · « **Reply #196 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:16:51 »

I'll head to my local art shop and pick up some blue dye. What kind of blue are you looking to see?

braaaiiins · « **Reply #197 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:21:36 »

Btw those keys look delicious ishtob. I want to eat the red ones. I bet they taste like red life savers.

hazeluff · « **Reply #198 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:28:00 »

Lol. Jelloshots!!!!!

ishtob · « **Reply #199 on:** Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:28:13 »

first baneling triple shot key is underway... i hope it turns out well...
my plan:
step 1 - (done)
dremel 1st layer, fill with translucent green (2:1 yellow:blue)

(oh, and you can see left over from a batch of orange caps I'm trying)

step 2
dremel legs and armor, fill with opaque brown (2:1:1 red:yellow:black)

News:

Author Topic: MYOC - Make your own caps! (Read 229173 times)