Author Topic: lack of interesting budget options  (Read 3516 times)

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Offline PlayBox

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lack of interesting budget options
« on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 15:01:22 »
i really like all the interesting projects here but its always this god damned aluminium and that overrated 100$-adding brass weight with a fking 300$ (please dont ban me idk if the word is allowed here) price tag i hate it. please give me that abs but not on these terribly expensive gmk, or pc, or anything else. i think ill have to stick to prebuilt market for sub-100$ options, but maybe somewhere in the future we will see budget boards
propably sent from my amazon kindle 10th gen

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 15:05:38 »
Several years ago some here referred to GH as "wallet hack"
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline kajahtaa

  • Posts: 272
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 15:17:59 »
Many FR4 boards on GitHub

https://keebfolio.netlify.app/

Can't upload a Gerber to JLC?

Find a "self made" Discord


Offline PlayBox

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 15:21:22 »
Several years ago some here referred to GH as "wallet hack"
heh. i am aware its not cheap hobby and i came from planning to spend 70$ on a keyboard to planning to spend 120$ on a keyboard (still plaaning to get my first keyboard also im currently on a laptop so i dont really need one yet)
(its akko 5075b plus or 5075s if money wont let me) but i cant see a keeb with a layout i want, or i see a keeb with cool layout but its alu (fjorboard it is love the design) and propably no plastic anytime soon and its not opensource so i cant make one myself
propably sent from my amazon kindle 10th gen

Offline PlayBox

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 15:24:01 »
Many FR4 boards on GitHub
https://keebfolio.netlify.app/
Can't upload a Gerber to JLC?
Find a "self made" Discord
interesting i need more on this topic (compressed the message abit so i can type the reply)
propably sent from my amazon kindle 10th gen

Offline CaesarAZealad

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 16:47:05 »
Try starting out with something like a keychron or doing some research into open source keyboard projects. Tai hao has some good options for cheap ABS caps, and the secondhand market is always an option. There’s also Akko, eppomaker, and aliexpress. Try and see if there’s a meet up near you that you can go to to try out some boards. It’s a great way to find out what you like and not have to spend the money to experiment. Hell even if there isn’t one you can try to start one and get some people together at a local public space. Custom keyboards are a luxury. I’m gonna assume you’re on the younger side and don’t have a good source of income. It’s okay to save up for a couple of years to get what you really want. In fact I’d advise saving up instead of cheating out now and getting something you may not even like.
One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten, Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen, Fourteen, Fifteen, Sixteen, Seventeen, Eighteen, Nineteen, Twenty... Yeah that seems about right.
"Ask your mother how good I can use more than two fingers." - Caesar, 2023

Offline Leslieann

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 18:37:10 »
i really like all the interesting projects here but its always this god damned aluminium and that overrated 100$-adding brass weight with a fking 300$ (please dont ban me idk if the word is allowed here) price tag i hate it. please give me that abs but not on these terribly expensive gmk, or pc, or anything else. i think ill have to stick to prebuilt market for sub-100$ options, but maybe somewhere in the future we will see budget boards

You will not find what you want for that cost, it can't exist.
You pretty cannot build a custom board for less than $300, aluminum, plastic, anything because low volume manufacturing is labor intensive and costly.


It's just a reality of manufacturing.
The only way to make a keyboard cheap is injection molding, however injection molding is SUUUUUPER expensive to get started, it can easily cost you $20-30k for the molds (only the molds!) and you still haven't even made a single keyboard. If you only want 100 keyboards they would end up selling for $800. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not paying $800 for an ABS plastic keyboard.

While everyone acts like aluminum is best it really has some downsides but the truth is, it's pretty much the cheapest ways to make a low volume product.  With milling you only pay for what you need, aluminum is cheap to mill hence it being popular. You can also mill polycarbonate. See where this is going?


There's only a few ways to make a keyboard case (you would want), all are either super expensive to start or super expensive per item. This is why there's a gap at the $250-$300 price point, it's a very difficult price point to hit in a keyboard due to the realities of manufacturing. And don't expect 3d printing to come to the rescue, metal 3d printing is NOT home friendly (probably won't be for a long time, if ever) and the only way 3d printing is cheap is if you own the machine.


All that said...
I'm not saying they are quite on the same level, but you can make one heck of a REALLY nice keyboard out of something mass produced. Preferably start with hot swap, this way you can easily replace and/or lube the switches and buy some better stabs, which also need lube and maybe band-aid mods. Do that, maybe some foam, some nice (not expensive) caps (I recommend cheap THICK PBT) and you'd be amazed at how good a "budget" keyboard can actually be.

Honestly, once you pass the $200-$300 mark, the cost to benefit ratio begins to drop extremely fast.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline granola bar enthusiast

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: USA
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 25 July 2022, 19:50:18 »
this is why i love ergo's, you don't have the urge to spend hundreds on the latest board, because you cannot escape the colemak dh+dactyl manuform addiction

Offline VaporKeebs

  • Posts: 58
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 03:38:52 »
CIY GK68 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QPQQSQZ
Milky Yellows https://divinikey.com/products/gateron-milky-yellow-linear-switches
Durock plate mounts https://prevailkeyco.com/products/durock-plate-mounted-stabilizers

That's a $65.41 build before caps and it's hotswap, bluetooth, plus it has goated budget switches and upgraded stabs.

Plus some decent caps

Drop Happy Planet https://drop.com/buy/gks-xda-v2-happy-planet-keycap-set

And youve got a full build for $102. Another $2 on alix and you can upgrade the plastic knob.

Offline LASERman Projects

  • Posts: 139
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  • Soldering is my native language.
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 04:23:17 »
I think Keychron V1 has been made for you among plenty of other options. You just need to look around properly.

Offline PlayBox

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 13:52:58 »
i am looking for max 120$ keyboards. and i want 75%/tkl not 65% i need f row
propably sent from my amazon kindle 10th gen

Offline Sup

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 18:00:28 »
75% custom not gonna happen. OEM possible
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
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Offline Leslieann

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 20:09:18 »
75% is the least standardized and one of the least popular layouts.

I used to want F-keys as well but really after using 65% it's not nearly as important as I thought.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 1378
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 26 July 2022, 22:41:10 »
CIY GK68 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QPQQSQZ
Milky Yellows https://divinikey.com/products/gateron-milky-yellow-linear-switches
Durock plate mounts https://prevailkeyco.com/products/durock-plate-mounted-stabilizers

That's a $65.41 build before caps and it's hotswap, bluetooth, plus it has goated budget switches and upgraded stabs.

Plus some decent caps

Drop Happy Planet https://drop.com/buy/gks-xda-v2-happy-planet-keycap-set

And youve got a full build for $102. Another $2 on alix and you can upgrade the plastic knob.

It's true - you can modify a GK68 or some other cheap Tester68/75-style board for cheap. Just need to lube stabilizers [or replace them with generic plate-mount, if you want to get fancy].

Can get goated budget switches of all types now, just stay away from the fruit-coloured hype switches. You can buy 90 decent switches for like $25 USD shipped, or even $16 during sales.

Only problem is the lack of plate selection in these cheap boards, although you can retrofit an $18 polycarb plate to a $50 MK870.

Offline LASERman Projects

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  • Location: Kent, UK
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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 27 July 2022, 08:24:17 »
i am looking for max 120$ keyboards. and i want 75%/tkl not 65% i need f row

75% custom not gonna happen. OEM possible

If you use my link above you'll find that Keychron V1 is 75% at $64 or even fully assembled at $84.
What more do you want?

75% is the least standardized and one of the least popular layouts.

LOL - nonsense!
Why you think Glorious, Keychron and now Logitech plenty others made the 75% their entry to custom market?
Exactly because it is opposite and 75% was most desirable custom size.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 27 July 2022, 11:10:28 »
LOL - nonsense!
Why you think Glorious, Keychron and now Logitech plenty others made the 75% their entry to custom market?
Exactly because it is opposite and 75% was most desirable custom size.
This happens every now and then, a few companies do a 75% and then poof, gone again, this isn't the first time.

And again, there's no standard layout among them, not just the mounts or buttons but even key layout isn't the same. The Fn keys get moves around, the F-keys get moved around.. All this makes getting replacement caps a hit or miss situation.


There's 2 issues with the layout, both pertaining to the F-Keys.
The F-Key row itself almost never has the same spacing as a normal board, this trips people up, this is also why the layout is always different, there's no good way to preserve the spacing and have a nice perfect rectangle. The second is the vertical spacing, the F-keys are often placed right against the numkey row, some companies leave a gap, most do not. On the surface this doesn't seem like a big deal but if you aren't used to keys butting up against those and you may be a bit sloppy when using them, this can cause strange things to happen, for example on some boards being sloppy with the backspace opens calculator on Windows. Any idea how annoying it is to type out a long sentence only to see you entered it in calculator?  Some companies (such as the GMMK Pro) do address these issues, but most don't. They're doing the same thing with 75% they've always done and never gained traction.

Is this a personal thing? Maybe, but 75% has been around for a long time and it's never gained traction like TKL or even 65% and 60% and which ones are most popular or at least desired, the ones with spacing... Maybe it's day has come but after seeing waves of 75% come and go I wouldn't get my hopes up.  Don't mistake a few companies suddenly doing it for it becoming a thing, especially since promotion and sales are not always the same thing. Everyone may be jumping on the GMMK Pro bandwagon thinking 75% is the next thing but is there a big market for it or was the GMMK Pro just filling a niche, that's now been flooded?
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline LASERman Projects

  • Posts: 139
  • Location: Kent, UK
  • Soldering is my native language.
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 27 July 2022, 12:32:06 »
Jeeez mate... why you purred so much off-topic water?
This hobby is about preference - you don't like 75%? No problem! Just stay away from it and be happy.
But please for your own sake: don't push your preference as the only thing with "traction", especially with such silly statements.
No offence, but maybe you should go outside this stagnated forum and find out what other people desire before talking for them?
Peace.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 27 July 2022, 16:32:30 »
I guess you missed it where I said I like 75%.
Not pushing preference, just dispelling this myth that 75% is popular, it's not, it never has been, probably never will be. There's just a dedicated few who are very passionate about it, including myself, I've owned 5 of them.

This isn't the first time this has happened for 75%, we get several at once (all following a successful model) and then crickets until all the inventory of those finally gets blown out and people forget how poorly it sold last time and someone tries it again. Once again 75% people jump on it because it's the first "good" 75% in a while, companies see it, flood the market only to find the sales are just not there. So once again we wait for inventory to slowly deplete and everyone to forget what happened and the cycle starts anew.

Trace back through keyboard history and you'll see that same trend over and over for 75%.
Novelkeys NK65AE w/62g Zilents/39g springs
More
62g Zilents/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, pic
| Filco MJ2 L.E. Vortex Case, Jailhouse Blues, heavily customized
More
Vortex case squared up/blasted finish removed/custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, foam sound dampened, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs, 40g actuation
| GMMK TKL
More
w/ Kailh Purple Pros/lubed/Novelkeys 39g springs, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, Netdot Gen10 Magnetic cable
| PF65 3d printed 65% w/LCD and hot swap
More
Box Jades, Interchangeable trim, mini lcd, QMK, underglow, HK Gaming Thick PBT caps, O-rings, Netdot Gen10 magnetic cable, in progress link
| Magicforce 68
More
MF68 pcb, Outemu Blues, in progress
| YMDK75 Jail Housed Gateron Blues
More
J-spacers, YMDK Thick PBT, O-rings, SIP sockets
| KBT Race S L.E.
More
Ergo Clears, custom WASD caps
| Das Pro
More
Costar model with browns
| GH60
More
Cherry Blacks, custom 3d printed case
| Logitech Illumininated | IBM Model M (x2)
Definitive Omron Guide. | 3d printed Keyboard FAQ/Discussion

Offline jcoffin1981

  • Posts: 860
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 30 July 2022, 00:53:14 »
Sticking with budget components,  you can find plastic/acrylic case options for $20- $40.  You may even find cheaper if you go to China.  You can find ABS, even PBT keycaps set for as little as $20- $30.  There are switches such as Gateron which can be purchased for as little as $.20- $25; for a 60% board this is like $15.  You can purchase a PCB for around $50, and less if you go to China.  Or you can do I like I do and cannibalize a board you already own if you have a compatible case.

Purchasing pre-packaged DIY builds will cost a lot more because they are using components like $150 aluminum cases/trays.  Choosing the components yourself will save some dough.   
KPB V60 Gateron Browns and Leopold Keycaps.  Poker 3 with Gateron Browns and Poker keycaps.  Poker 3 with Cherry MX Browns, ABS keycaps and white LED's.

Leopold FC660M- my new favorite, right out of the box.

Offline PlayBox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 199
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 30 July 2022, 07:00:02 »
im not looking for 60% i am looking for tkl so give me suggestion for not clear (solid) black tkl/75% case/kit and compatible pcb for example mk870 is out of question cos its clear. i also want anything but tray mount.
propably sent from my amazon kindle 10th gen

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 1378
Re: lack of interesting budget options
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 30 July 2022, 10:43:35 »
There are non-clear MK870 all over AliExpress. There is solid black, white, and beige case variants.

However, it is still a tray mount. [Although some people have turned it into gummy O-ring mounts through modification, using the aftermarket polycarb plate.]

You might have to wait for the makers of the GAS67 and similar to just make a GA87 TKL version. I think a lot of people are waiting for that - a budget gasket TKL like the budget 65% that exists.