[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[cjhard]

Is W looking too close to E on that 62 in person or is that just photographic illusion?

[Ellipse]

Yes some of the barrels are slightly off.  The prototypes were adjusted with hand tools and are not 100% CNC Machined perfectly.

[ccc24]

those are clean boards, simple and elegant. Any more adjustments you plan on making before the GB goes live?

[KetchyKech]

WOW . congrats that is a beaut.

*excitement* 

edit:  now im debating going f62 ....omg i was so dead set on f77.... AH!!!

edit2: Oh ellipse, I see there is an option on the website for custom colors that requires that we message you- - should we do so now before orders open>?

edit#3!!: any news on obtaining front printed keycaps from unicomp? (at least for F keys) i recall that being mentioned :x

[fanpeople]

I just spilt seamen on my keyboard.

[calvinhousecat]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

[fanpeople]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

[calvinhousecat]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

I just noticed your avatar

whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? 

[fanpeople]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

I just noticed your avatar

whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? 

  as I said, out of seamen.

[calvinhousecat]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

I just noticed your avatar

whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? 

  as I said, out of seamen.

[bocahgundul]

Could we have a type test video Ellipse 

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

I just noticed your avatar

whats on your hhkb... thats not what I think it is right? 

  as I said, out of seamen.

U WOT M8?

[Karura]

Eclipse, love how the prototype turned out.

Any updates on the colour options?

Also, any updates on the HHKB layout? Are we going to be using a "capslock" and a 1u, or something different?

[fanpeople]

U WOT M8?

It has been long enough, I am no longer out

[Muffinbottoms]

Damn! Really glad to finally see some nices proto shots of these babies. Congrats on all your hard work Ellipse!

[Elrick]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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Oh SCHWEET GEEZUS, can't believe how beautiful the F77 is sitting inside it's protection packaging.  It's like an innocent princess, sleeping in her bed waiting for me to wake her from her slumber    .

You've got me salivating for this keyboard more and more each day, I don't think I can last much longer.

[bocahgundul]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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Oh SCHWEET GEEZUS, can't believe how beautiful the F77 is sitting inside it's protection packaging.  It's like an innocent princess, sleeping in her bed waiting for me to wake her from her slumber    .

You've got me salivating for this keyboard more and more each day, I don't think I can last much longer.

You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo

[Elrick]

You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo

Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.

Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks  .

[bocahgundul]

You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo

Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.

Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks  .

Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!

[atlas3686]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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[cjhard]

I just spilt seamen on my keyboard.

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

as I said, out of seamen.

Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!

Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.

Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks  .

You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo

Y'all mother****ers are gross.

[megahertzcoil]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

Ellipse, truly incredible work!  It's amazing to see this all come together.  I can only image how excited you were to finally assemble the prototypes!

[geniekid]

Whoa those are pretty...

[Jedi]

Man, post those pics again, this really looks like we building a tank. I'd love to chose a custom color but gawd dayum that f77 base color is kicking just the way it is. Really, this is like one of the rare ICs that goes all the way to proof of concept shown BEFORE the GB is even in effect.

This is looking pretty good. 

[Ellipse]

Karura - the color options are similar to the original off-white, similar to Industrial Grey, black, and a color of your choice (if you cover the cost of tooling and paint for that color).

Only one or two people suggested a specific Pantone color (which is needed to get a custom color).  One suggested Pantone true red 19-1664.

[CPTBadAss]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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This post made me feel some type of way. Very sexy. Now if only we could get pics of the factory making all this!

[Ellipse]

Here's a video someone posted of the original Model F's being made:

[CPTBadAss]

I already have that video in my spankbank archives though

[Elrick]

Man, post those pics again, this really looks like we building a tank. I'd love to chose a custom color but gawd dayum that f77 base color is kicking just the way it is. Really, this is like one of the rare ICs that goes all the way to proof of concept shown BEFORE the GB is even in effect.

This is looking pretty good. 

Ellipse is only making the original Model-F keyboard but with updated internals for us to use on any PC.  He's the one that has maintained the true concept of what a Model-F should be and he did it on his own with his own money.

Name me here on Geekhack, anyone who has gone on his own to develop a brand new Model-F with no Group Buy funding whatsoever?

A lot of people talk about it, a lot fantasize about it but this guy delivered it by himself, kudos to the one and only Ellipse    .

[xondat]

Feast your eyes on some of my very first F62/F77 photos and a quick photo during the assembly process

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First few look like renders, that's amazing.

[Ellipse]

I'm typing on the brand new F77! It is a great keyboard. Like I said with my F62 evaluation, these keyboards truly deserve the Model F moniker. The keypresses are very sharp and precise, as I'd imagine like a brand new original Model F would sound fresh out of the factory door in 1984, and maybe even a little better due to improvements in manufacturing and tolerances over the past few decades since the Model F's were introduced. There is noticeably less ringing/reverberation on these new prototypes compared to many of my original Model F keyboards, though there is still some musicality and different sounds with each key (though like I mentioned with my F62 evaluation, the keys are more consistent with each other in terms of their sound). I believe part of the reason for less ringing is the improved overall quality of the components which are able to take advantage of improvements in manufacturing accuracy, as well as the use of what I believe is a more dense, stable type of foam (the McMaster-Carr Neoprene/EDPM blend) as opposed to the less dense, disintegrating originals. Also I believe that a lot of the ringing is influenced by the condition of the foam and its relation to the top inner assembly (how tight/even the top inner assembly fits with the bottom inner assembly): the more disintegrated the foam, often the more ringing in general is what I've noticed.

I also tested the split right shift prototype and everything buckles well (though I am unable to test for the software of those two keys since I did not order prototype split right shift PCBs for either the F77 or F62).

The key will be my instructions to the factory regarding the quality control. I will ask them to test each key and make a video showing which keys sound good and which ones should have their springs replaced. For whatever reason about 10 of the springs (they sent me extra springs fortunately) did not pass my quality control. Maybe they were half a mm too tall (or stretched out a little).

A video will be forthcoming...

Thanks xondat.  Those F62 photos were taken in my new light tent setup with softbox lighting.

[bocahgundul]

I just spilt seamen on my keyboard.

Dude come on, i am out of seamen.

as I said, out of seamen.

Heheheheh you really can hold the seamen from escaping eh good self control!

Always, just they're getting bigger and bigger each day and soon I'll have to release the pressure.

Women are born lucky but us lot here, suffer from our messed up plumbing and storage sacks  .

You still have enough seamen for the GB? cause mine just emptied from all this photo

Y'all mother****ers are gross.

its not gross if its for keyboard  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Pemdas]

I'm typing on the brand new F77! It is a great keyboard. Like I said with my F62 evaluation, these keyboards truly deserve the Model F moniker. The keypresses are very sharp and precise, as I'd imagine like a brand new original Model F would sound fresh out of the factory door in 1984, and maybe even a little better due to improvements in manufacturing and tolerances over the past few decades since the Model F's were introduced. There is noticeably less ringing/reverberation on these new prototypes compared to many of my original Model F keyboards, though there is still some musicality and different sounds with each key (though like I mentioned with my F62 evaluation, the keys are more consistent with each other in terms of their sound). I believe part of the reason for less ringing is the improved overall quality of the components which are able to take advantage of improvements in manufacturing accuracy, as well as the use of what I believe is a more dense, stable type of foam (the McMaster-Carr Neoprene/EDPM blend) as opposed to the less dense, disintegrating originals. Also I believe that a lot of the ringing is influenced by the condition of the foam and its relation to the top inner assembly (how tight/even the top inner assembly fits with the bottom inner assembly): the more disintegrated the foam, often the more ringing in general is what I've noticed.

I also tested the split right shift prototype and everything buckles well (though I am unable to test for the software of those two keys since I did not order prototype split right shift PCBs for either the F77 or F62).

The key will be my instructions to the factory regarding the quality control. I will ask them to test each key and make a video showing which keys sound good and which ones should have their springs replaced. For whatever reason about 10 of the springs (they sent me extra springs fortunately) did not pass my quality control. Maybe they were half a mm too tall (or stretched out a little).

A video will be forthcoming...

Thanks xondat.  Those F62 photos were taken in my new light tent setup with softbox lighting.

Shaping up to be one amazing group buy! Can't wait to place my order 

[stoic-lemon]

I am interested in the smaller case, especially if it is styled like the originals. Is that still a possibility?

[Ellipse]

stoic the smaller case would be designed very simply for cost reasons, like those of the custom Cherry MX keyboard projects.  I posted some renderings a few pages back.  Custom CNC milled cases with the level of detail of the original cases would cost a lot more than the original cases in low quantity.

[ctm]

Just to double check, the controller firmware does not support dual role keys right? I really need dual role keys on my 60%, so if it's not supported I need to go get hasu's USB to USB converter (this feels like somewhat wasting the programmable controller though).

[Ellipse]

Not sure ctm.  If it's not part of xwhatsit's controller software, you could also try this dual role autohotkey script (I have not tried it):  https://github.com/lydell/dual

Also the xwhatsit controller is not 100% likely.  There are some DT users working on replacing xwhatsit's controller with a ~$10 pre-built dev board with capacitive sensing capabilities (it came to market recently), so the F77/F62 keyboards may go with that instead of the xwhatsit controller.

[ctm]

Not sure ctm.  If it's not part of xwhatsit's controller software, you could also try this dual role autohotkey script (I have not tried it):  https://github.com/lydell/dual

Also the xwhatsit controller is not 100% likely.  There are some DT users working on replacing xwhatsit's controller with a ~$10 pre-built dev board with capacitive sensing capabilities (it came to market recently), so the F77/F62 keyboards may go with that instead of the xwhatsit controller.

What firmware does that board use?

[Ellipse]

The firmware and GUI are still in development.  Here's the thread if you're interested or have more questions for the developer:  https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/alternate-ways-of-sensing-teh-fs-t12533.html

[ctm]

The firmware and GUI are still in development.  Here's the thread if you're interested or have more questions for the developer:  https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/alternate-ways-of-sensing-teh-fs-t12533.html

Thank you! I will check that out. Not a big deal if it does not support dual role at the end. I probably will need the USB to USB converter in future for some board that are not programmable.

[Ellipse]

Some more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:

[fanpeople]

Oh wow, is that what you guys were talking about when your were discussing a split right shift. I was kinda expecting it to be the other way around. Looks really good.

[Ludovician]

The standard layout supports it with the other way around, but one of the options has altered barrel placement to support it this way, although you can't use a standard right shift if you do that.

[fanpeople]

The standard layout supports it with the other way around, but one of the options has altered barrel placement to support it this way, although you can't use a standard right shift if you do that.

Ah so not a reversible option then.

[SixtyLife]

Some more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:

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looking good Ellipse. what are the two holes on the bottom of the case in the back? behind the cork feet?

[pr0ximity]

Damn those are looking awesome. Congrats Ellipse, been a lot of work but what a payofff! Very, very, very excited for all of the people who will be experiencing 4704 Model F excellence in the near future. Outside of beamsprings there's no better clicky tactile keyboard.

I really shouldn't get one, but you're making things very difficult for me

[fanpeople]

looking good Ellipse. what are the two holes on the bottom of the case in the back? behind the cork feet?

Those are speed holes for when you use this thing to down an intruder that has broken into your house

Edit: srs question ellipse, can you give us the dimensions of those screws? I will most likely want to change them in the future.

[Ellipse]

The two unpopulated holes on the case bottoms are for those who want screw-in bumpers on the back (some people prefer a keyboard tilted up an inch or a half inch).  The screws and nuts allow for a more sturdy connection for those larger bumpers.

Here are the 6-32 screws I am planning on using:  4 of http://www.mcmaster.com/#91735a148/=xpocbd and 1 of http://www.mcmaster.com/#91735a144/=y3xunh

For the taller bumpers I will be including slightly longer screws than the above ones.

[ctm]

Are the spacebars from Unicomp? I heard that model M and Model F spacebars are not exactly the same.

Also, I see three kinds of spacebars (large, small pre 7/2013, small post 7/2013) listed on Unicomp website. If the spacebar is from Unicomp, which one is it?

[Elrick]

Some more prototype photos here! I forgot to order a second caps lock key in the unprinted version so you are seeing one printed key on the F77 unprinted version of the photos in this group:

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AAAAhhhhhhhhhh, this place has just relieved me off a whole lot of moolah.

Suddenly Brazzers, NaughtyAmerica and DigitalPlayground are boring compared to this top Keyboard Pron site known as - Geekhack  .

Please give us more Ellipse, we want much more pics that includes lots of rear end shots here buddy, especially how the BIG Black Cord plants itself into the innocent Beige-like Casing  .

[Ellipse]

ctm the spacebars are the large spacebars from Unicomp.  Those are the only Unicomp ones that fit these keyboards. 

Your older Model M buckling spring space bars will also fit these keyboards.  Model F space bars will not fit as the wire stabilizer does not extend as far.