[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ellipse]

Hoffman you can decide to get in on the early bird round any time before 2/29 when orders close - there's no extra fee to be in the early bird round - everyone can get in for the same $325 base price as the regular round.  As I posted earlier, I have been talking over with some people about possibly putting in my/our own money to order extra keyboards in the early bird round to help those who really want a keyboard but for whatever reason missed out on the early round and don't want to wait until August/September to get their F62/F77.  This may be a slight premium option to account for the risk of possibly unsold units.  From 3/1 to 6/30 is the regular round. 

hashbaz, Frosty is right with some of the benefits of the early round.  The early rounders will not be guinea pigs but will be receiving individually tested products based off the design of the working prototype I am typing on now .  There will likely not be adjustments made after the early round - I spent close to five figures making prototypes and recently uploaded a video of them working 100%.  I'll be making small adjustments based on these prototypes (including the one I'm using now - the F77 is my personal preference) and those adjustments will be reflected in the early bird round. 

The reason for an early bird round costing extra is that there is a tooling charge each time you place an order for parts.  It is a charge for setting up their production lines/machines.  To get the price down to $325 I was going to pay for one production run.  The tooling charge is for each part so it does add up. 

[tassadarforaiur]

hey ellipse, might have been answered before, but if we're undecided and want multiple layouts to swap on single kb, how much would the extra hardware cost? (i.e. split shift)

[Ellipse]

The web site is a go!  Time to order your Brand New Model F Keyboard!

Please head to www.ModelFkeyboards.com to place your order! 

[Ellipse]

tassadarforaiur you can have multiple layouts without paying anything extra, as long as you are fine splitting the right shift key 1U on the left barrel and caps lock style shift key on the right barrel.  Most people preferring the HHKB style layout want those keys the other way around, so they would then need to buy the extra parts to go between split right shift of any layout and regular shift key.

If you want to go split right shift, you'd need a split right shift top inner assembly, split right shift PCB, split right shift inside foam, and a few extra keys:  Backspace (| \ sized key), caps lock style Shift Key, 1U key with "Fn" legend for the function key, ctrl/caps lock switched legend keys, a 1U | \ key, and maybe another one I forgot about?

If you don't want to have to reassemble each keyboard every time you switch layouts, you can also order just an extra fully assembled inner assembly.

[Karura]

Is it not possible to have a proper short right shift made that is not stepped like the capslock?

All this money and time poured into the project, but an imperfect solution for the HHKB style shift + fn.

[Melvang]

Is it not possible to have a proper short right shift made that is not stepped like the capslock?

All this money and time poured into the project, but an imperfect solution for the HHKB style shift + fn.

No, Unicomp does not make a full touch 1.75 unit key.

[Techno Trousers]

Is it not possible to have a proper short right shift made that is not stepped like the capslock?

All this money and time poured into the project, but an imperfect solution for the HHKB style shift + fn.

I don't consider that a limitation of the project. The issue is Unicomp, and the fact that they have a de facto monopoly on BS key sets in the world. Because there is no competition, we have no leverage to get them to create a non-stepped key in that size, or produce more of the right full size shift in blank black, or a host of other things that would be nice.

I was just talking with my friend at lunch. If I had a big nest egg of money what I would want to do is buy the equipment and learn how to make great BS caps and sell them at a decent price, at MOST what the custom Cherry sets sell for. Dyesub PBT, double shot ABS. Heck, maybe even double shot PBT! Capacitive buckling spring is the best switch ever, but the keycap options are frankly quite sad.

[Karura]

I understand the project is great, I am too strictly talking about Unicomp.

I take that it would cost too much to request them to create new tooling for the proper full-touch short right shift. Did we try to communicate with Unicomp and see what they have to say?

Another question, I see that the Fn 1u key for the HHKB layout is white, will it be the same colour as the modifiers in the final run to match it?

[Jedi]

Ordered up, thanks ellipse, now I wait

[Melvang]

I understand the project is great, I am too strictly talking about Unicomp.

I take that it would cost too much to request them to create new tooling for the proper full-touch short right shift. Did we try to communicate with Unicomp and see what they have to say?

Another question, I see that the Fn 1u key for the HHKB layout is white, will it be the same colour as the modifiers in the final run to match it?

Molds for this would likely be in the realm of $10,000.  With the complexity of the cavity, tolerances required for both the cap dimensions, and injection molds in general.  This is to be on top of the time investment for someone to draw up the CAD files.  Remember, Unicomp has not done any CAD for caps.  They simply bought the tooling and are riding on those.  Chances are they got CAD files for molds so as to be able to buy replacements, but creating new files is an entirely new aspect.  Yes they have done cad work for new cases after purchasing from Lexmark/IBM, but cases are relatively simple with very little in the need for tolerances compared to the tolerances needed for BS caps.

[Ir0n]

God..f77 or f62 so hard..-stares at monitor-  never had a 60% keyboard idk if i can live with out my arrow keys i know i can just put em on layers but gah

[potatowire]

Is local pickup somewhere in the NY area? Do we need to get the Early Bird version in order to freeload from the $100 tooling volunteers? I can't seem to get that added to the cart. Also, is it just me or are blanks the only option for the HHKB-style Right Split Shift and Split Backspace? The description seems to indicate printed keys should be available for this version too. I have more questions, but I am already embarrassed by asking these.

[Jedi]

Arrow keys and a numbed are my absolute must haves.  I have 2 60% boards with custom cases and keycaps on them and I still grab my TKL with my numpad USB as my daily drivers.  The F77 is the way to go if not having to remember key combos is your thing.  For this price I would go with what you really would type on everyday unless this is gonna go on a shelf somewhere

[Ir0n]

Yeah went with the f77 like i had planned from the start lol i need those keys ;<

[potatowire]

I didn't like seeing $21.38 shipping per keyboard, but then I looked at what poor Elrick is going to have to pay for shipping down under...

[dohbot]

I'm going to need to mull this over a little bit. Since this is likely the only run, I will probably end up doing this, but I kinda also want to make a cool RGB board to display artisans and keysets. But then the sound it makes when it types is so good! Oh my goodness. :O

[Techno Trousers]

But then the sound it makes when it types is so good! Oh my goodness. :O

Forget the sound, it's the sensory experience through your fingertips that's the true luxury. I've tried all the mechanical switches, and nothing beats capacitive buckling spring for pure typing feel.

[aznairjordan]

Just ordered! Had to decide if I wanted those extra keys or not but I decided to go with the F62

[KetchyKech]

ordered, sir! Added the note with the Pantone custom color ~ so you can invoice me later as we discussed.
As for keys, I'm not too certain I want to stay with "regular color blank keys (no lettering/legends).
are the brilliant white / blue legend keys printed keys from unicomp's site an option?

Thanks man! 


 i am excite.

[ccc24]

I have 2 questions. So if we just place an order for just main offering f77/f62 by 2/29 we get in for the early bird or do we need to order the ones marked as "Early Bird"? Second, is industrial grey the one pictured for the f77 main offering?

[Vizir]

Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?

[FrostyToast]

Those expenses for prototyping are pretty insane coming directly from your pocket, though not unexpected.
I hope you get some sort of kickback from this group buy. 

[Ludovician]

Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?

By HHKB-style, it means split shift, like the F77 here:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/F62-F77-1024x457.jpg


Split backspace has two 1u keys instead of the 2u backspace.

[atlas3686]

These have got to be some of the toughest choices ever made on GH! I went F62 HHKB style in Black    although as others have mentioned Unicomps lack of std. right shift in black and lack of unstepped capslocks is really killing me soul, the board will always be almost perfect

[Air tree]

I'm sad about keycaps so I'm just going to get a regular traditional f62 layout.


 

[Vizir]

Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?

By HHKB-style, it means split shift, like the F77 here:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/F62-F77-1024x457.jpg


Split backspace has two 1u keys instead of the 2u backspace.

I know what hhkb style is. There is another option with hhkb style split shift and split backpace...

[naasfu]

I'm sad about keycaps so I'm just going to get a regular traditional f62 layout.

I went with the traditional layout as well.  Having a stepped right shift would drive me nuts.

Try out SpaceFN as an alternative.  It works pretty well.

ps.  i ordered an f62 in industrial grey + trad layout, plus some extra keys.

[ApocalypseMaow]

couldn't you just do hhkb without the split shift and make 1.5 right ctrl your fn key...

I think that's what I'm gonna do, but now I have to message ellipse to change my order xD

I need that merdered out setup!!!

[Bevo]

I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.

$89 shipping to Australia really kills it

[Ludovician]

Ellipse, why does one of the item description say that the hhkb layout for f77 will require some modification to xwhatsits controller? Have you got a photo or image of what the hhkb with split backpace looks like?

By HHKB-style, it means split shift, like the F77 here:
http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/F62-F77-1024x457.jpg


Split backspace has two 1u keys instead of the 2u backspace.

I know what hhkb style is. There is another option with hhkb style split shift and split backpace...

Right, so one of the options has the split shift but normal backspace and the other has the split shift with split backspace.

[Karura]

Eclipse, what materials are the cases made out of?

[fanpeople]

I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.

$89 shipping to Australia really kills it

We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down

[Bevo]

I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.

$89 shipping to Australia really kills it

We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down

I'd be up for that. Depends how much we save though and we need to find out how much domestic shipping will cost as well

[fanpeople]

I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.

$89 shipping to Australia really kills it

We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down

I'd be up for that. Depends how much we save though and we need to find out how much domestic shipping will cost as well

the more australians and if ellipse is ok with it the cheaper it should be. As i am happy to do the division and resent whilst still paying an equal amount. I will do a little research tonight.

[Bevo]

I really wanted this board but came to realise that 658AUD is just too much for me.

$89 shipping to Australia really kills it

We could vombine shipping for two or more boards and bring it down

I'd be up for that. Depends how much we save though and we need to find out how much domestic shipping will cost as well

the more australians and if ellipse is ok with it the cheaper it should be. As i am happy to do the division and resent whilst still paying an equal amount. I will do a little research tonight.

Fantastic. Let me know mate!

[Ludovician]

Keep in mind that once the value of imported goods to Australia goes over $1k AUD, you have to pay taxes on it, and then there's the cost of shipping the boxes to other people. Should be able to JUST fit a keyboard box into the flat-rate "prepaid postage" large satchel from AusPost, which is $17, but I don't know about orders with extra parts, as those would have to be sent differently which could go over $30 depending on location and weight. The taxes, from what I understand, are 10% of the value of the imported goods + a flat fee of around $50 for $1k-$10k or $150 for over $10k.

[bocahgundul]

Can you ship the board as a 50$ value?
So we can't get tax for it

Edit: Grammar nazi

[Ludovician]

what

[simingma]

FrostyToast I have put together a video with a typing test and a comparison of different Model F and M keyboards.  Please keep in mind that these are prototypes adjusted with hand tools because some measurements were off - they will not sound like the finalized production units. 

Every Model F keyboard and Model M keyboard in my collection sounds noticeably different - the goal of this project was not to exactly reproduce the sound of any one Model F keyboard, but I feel that these new Model F keyboards are truly in line with and deserve the moniker of a Model F keyboard as I posted earlier.

Muffinbottoms that is fine with me - you have until the end of February to place an early bird order.  For being an early bird tooling volunteer, please let me know as soon as possible but that's fine if you want to wait until early February to place your order.

Steveen my video compares the sound of an F107 example to the new production units.  It's really something to have a completely new Model F keyboard that will serve you well for many years and decades to come (hopefully).  The older units' springs and other parts may start to corrode or lose their springiness in the decades to come.  Many of them have developed a more "muffled" sound over the decades for some reason.

This is an early preview of the video - orders are still not yet open but will be very soon!

Beautifully engineered! Congrats!! Cannot wait to place my order!!!

Can really tell the differences comparing with your 107 keys towards the end of the recording, where those pingings were so profound. The prototypes sounded so much more in control and precise.

I do find my particular 107 has a somewhat "lighter" feel in comparison with my other ATs and 122s. But knowing that my findings were only attributed to my unique collection, where would you rate the prototype's stiffness/lightness against your other Fs? During this still early unbroken-in period?

Many thanks!!!

[fanpeople]

I can't figure anything out without the weights and dimensions of these keyboards in their boxes.

Ellipse would you be able to provide these details. Also are you just using the usps calculator? 

It would be approximately 35 AUD give or take for domestic so long as no one lives somewhere stupidly remote like Pilbara. This is working off 40 x 30 x 20 at 5kgs

From what I have looked at so far I think we might just be ****ed with regard to postage. 

I am happy proxy to everyone in Australia if it would make it cheaper but I think that any slapped on import fees would eat up the savings at such a small qty.

[Ludovician]

Yeah, I was looking into this a week or so ago. From what Ellipse told me about the weight, I estimated 4.5kg and the dimensions are on the site:

Box Dimensions (approx.):  50 x 30 x 8 cm (F77), 45 x 30 x 8 cm (F62)

I ended up deciding not to do it because I'm not sure we'd even save any money.

Let's say the keyboard is $350 USD, and roughly convert that to 500 AUD.
Edit: Just remembered they're $325, but I'll leave it as it to account for extras people are buying.

$50 tax
$17-$35 domestic shipping
A share of the cost to get the bulk parcel to Australia
A share of the import fee (almost negligible)

[atlas3686]

Can you ship the board as a 50$ value?
So we can't get tax for it

Edit: Grammar nazi

Was also wondering about this, tax is gonna be epic.

[stoic-lemon]

Oh man that shipping. Stupid I never imagined it would be that much. Suppose sliding one over here from China is out of the question.

[ctm]

Is it just me? The website is quite slow.

[mobbo]

Dark times for the Canadian dollar, dark times.

[keshley]

We're signing a new lease soon for a new place, so looks like I'm waiting until I know what my new address is...

[againer]

wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL

[user 18]

wouldnt this caps lock key match the hhkb layout or is it in a difrent size?

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/CTCL

That is a 1.75u ctrl key (stepped) and a 1.5u caps lock (non-stepped). The caps lock would be smaller than the space.



What shipping option do we pick for shipping to Canada? I only see options for US, Europe/Asia, and Aus.

[cjhard]

Oh man oh man oh man it's live!

Gib me a few days to pay rent, but I'm totes going poor for the black F62 w/ regular color blanks mostly to keep the springs in place on shipment, ISO enter because I like my backslash accessible, and bolt-on rubber bumpers.

[pchatterjee]

Ordered as well -- woohoo.

Ellipse -- I wanted to white keys with blue modifiers like on some of your SSKs on your website if possible.

Sent you a note if you can do you a titanium grey/silver type paint.