Author Topic: [IC] Ion: Xeno 75% - Group buy open now @zealpc.net !!  (Read 162665 times)

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Offline SBN

  • Posts: 134
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #300 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 03:50:13 »
Another vote for the spacers from me!

The board looks really nice! I usually don’t like the 75% look, but the spacers in the f row and besides the arrow cluster in combination with the led triangle make this a nice balanced look!

Offline FoC_Tow

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #301 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 05:23:51 »
Can’t really make my mind up about spacer tbh, so anyway is gud!

Offline pon10

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #302 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 05:49:02 »
WANT -  with spacers  :thumb:

Offline Tre3Cycl3S

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #303 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 12:42:34 »
Am I the only one here who prefer without the f-row spacers?

Both look great regardless though!
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Offline odd

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #304 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 13:08:51 »
One of each please  :p

Offline kmba

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #305 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 13:16:55 »
Looks better with spacers
keyboards.

Offline dragon2668

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #306 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 21:57:04 »
I am in, 1 vote for the spacer, it looks very awesome
hopefully it is not open soon cause have not any money now :D

Offline Darknight00z

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #307 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 07:50:17 »
been a long thread so i don't remember, but have we ever explored the idea of a WKL bottom row? looks sooo good on the SINGA 75%  :thumb:

Yes I did, but I'm going to leave that to her board.


Also, this has grown on me quite a bit...
Show Image



Show Image


Really digging the spacer here, though not a fan of WKL

Offline Petch

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #308 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 08:10:57 »
been a long thread so i don't remember, but have we ever explored the idea of a WKL bottom row? looks sooo good on the SINGA 75%  :thumb:

Yes I did, but I'm going to leave that to her board.


Also, this has grown on me quite a bit...
Show Image



Show Image


Really digging the spacer here, though not a fan of WKL

It isn't WKL. Unless you were going to use 3 1u keycaps on the right side of the spacebar?

Usually on a 75% your bottom row would be

1.25 | 1.25 | 1.25 | 6.25 | 1.5 | 1.5 | 1 | 1 | 1

or

1.25 | 1.25 | 1.25 | 6.25 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1

This top keeps the right half the same, but lets you go 6.25 | 1.25 | 1.25 | | 1 | 1 | 1 | instead

Offline Darknight00z

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #309 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 09:39:56 »
I was talking about the Singa WKL layout if it were on the Xeno, that would be insta turn-off for me.

Offline P1kas

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #310 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 11:12:50 »
OP has mentioned before in this thread that he is not planning on supporting the WKL layout seen in the SINGA.

« Last Edit: Fri, 12 January 2018, 15:58:07 by P1kas »
There is no such thing as "too much orange."

Offline Anaconda

  • Posts: 57
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #311 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 18:23:25 »
One more vote for spacers. Will there be any led passthrough on the case? i'd love to see someting like the duck octagon has on the sides. Also another feature i'd love to see is usb-c on the pcb. Any estimations when the group buy might happen?

Offline P1kas

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #312 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 20:03:53 »
He's mentioned an optional acrylic diffuser in the OP.

No mentions of a GB start date as of yet.
There is no such thing as "too much orange."

Offline Peiweisgreat

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #313 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 03:53:12 »
Its perfectly ok to leave the WKL option to the Singa board, but steal that red ano color. That **** is drop dead gorgeous on a board. Regular reds are a bit too loud, but the red on the picture was just too good. Also a big fan of the spacers for the F Row. I can't imagine a keeb without it.

Offline Anaconda

  • Posts: 57
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #314 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 13:25:07 »
What kind of angle will the keyboard be in? i'd like to see something like 8-5 degrees personally.
Edit: I cant read.
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 January 2018, 13:36:31 by Anaconda »

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #315 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 15:16:48 »
Its perfectly ok to leave the WKL option to the Singa board, but steal that red ano color. That **** is drop dead gorgeous on a board. Regular reds are a bit too loud, but the red on the picture was just too good. Also a big fan of the spacers for the F Row. I can't imagine a keeb without it.

I agree that the red on SINGA is amazing.  But regular red is cool for certain sets.  I think black keys on a red case look pretty wicked.  In a perfect world, I'd take one of each color :)

Offline Anaconda

  • Posts: 57
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #316 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 16:16:16 »
Also I would love to see a EU proxy if possible. Loving the the design and i will buy this if it comes on sale soon enough.

Offline xondat

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #317 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 16:17:20 »
Also as i would love to see a EU proxy if possible. Loving the the design and i will buy this if it comes on sale soon enough.

No point. You wouldn't save anything much (probably less than $10), it'd take longer, and increase the chance of loss/damage/etc.

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #318 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 16:33:55 »
This looks awesome with the f-row spacers. I'd love to get this with the numpad  :thumb:

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #319 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 18:36:42 »
Man, I love this thing.

Offline Paopawdecarabao

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #320 on: Sat, 13 January 2018, 19:40:59 »
Awesome! This is amazing +1 for me

Offline ff7

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #321 on: Sun, 14 January 2018, 10:47:12 »
Love the keyboard and numpad. Would like to see both of them in production!

Offline midnight2903

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #322 on: Sun, 14 January 2018, 21:13:35 »
This looks pretty good. Any estimated pricing?

Offline tectonicplate

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #323 on: Sun, 14 January 2018, 22:27:44 »
I've been watching this for a while. The original render without F-row spacers nailed it. And the extra space around the LEDs is a good thing!, it's a more sophisticated composition and is more commanding overall. Interesting use of "white space" is often what determines good design from everything else that's average and/or less considered. I love that the original doesn't follow the same old, stale convention… that's what makes we want to purchase it. Too many boring votes here, disappointing to see it go the other way, it's sad to see this get watered down… I so wanted to get this. I hope the designer sticks with the original vision… I'm on this in a heartbeat if so. Also, a green case option would make this EPIC.

186588-0

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #324 on: Sun, 14 January 2018, 23:04:31 »
...
Interesting use of "white space" is often what determines good design from everything else that's average and/or less considered...

(Attachment Link)

How about removing all the F-keys also, leaving a more striking area of white space?

I understand your design philosophy: devices do not need to be usable, ergonomics and usability factors are not so necessary, but they need to look good.
e.g. The many generations of single button Apple mouse.

Apple should hire you.
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Offline manzel

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #325 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 02:38:02 »
The original render without F-row spacers nailed it. And the extra space around the LEDs is a good thing!, it's a more sophisticated composition and is more commanding overall

I agree to this.

devices do not need to be usable, ergonomics and usability factors are not so necessary, but they need to look good.

Why do you (and all the other people here) think an F row without spacers is unusable? Have you never used F keys on the Fn layer of a 60%? And do you also think the alphas are unusable because they do not have any spacers between them?

But nevertheless, I think I will be in no matter how the F row will look.

Offline amnesia0287

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #326 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 03:47:02 »
I've been watching this for a while. The original render without F-row spacers nailed it. And the extra space around the LEDs is a good thing!, it's a more sophisticated composition and is more commanding overall. Interesting use of "white space" is often what determines good design from everything else that's average and/or less considered. I love that the original doesn't follow the same old, stale convention… that's what makes we want to purchase it. Too many boring votes here, disappointing to see it go the other way, it's sad to see this get watered down… I so wanted to get this. I hope the designer sticks with the original vision… I'm on this in a heartbeat if so. Also, a green case option would make this EPIC.

(Attachment Link)

You you call “sophisticated composition” I would describe as aesthetically challenged. To me with the bigger gap for the indicators is all sorts of imbalanced. Contrary what you seem to think, you can have too much white space just as easy as you can have too little.

That said, there is little point in continuing this debate. You will never convince me that it looks better in the old render, and I will never convince you it looks better in the new.

He will make a choice and that is what we get, no way will we please everyone.

For me, if he goes with blockers, this will be THE 75% keyboard in my collection, without I’ll hold off until I find something that fits my aesthetic and a bunch of other people will be extremely happy with their Xeno. I’m good in either case cause no matter what someone’s getting awesome keyboards.

Offline Rayoui

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #327 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 06:15:58 »
Why do you (and all the other people here) think an F row without spacers is unusable? Have you never used F keys on the Fn layer of a 60%? And do you also think the alphas are unusable because they do not have any spacers between them?

It doesn't make them unusable but it is far less efficient. On a standard F-row with spacers, you can find and use the keys easily without looking down at they keyboard. Without spacers, this is a lot harder. A 60% won't have this problem because the F-keys correspond to the standard number row placement and can be accessed without moving your hands from the home row.

As far as design philosophy, particularly for tools (like keyboards), I tend toward function over form. If it looks good while doing it, so much the better. And the Xeno (with spacers  :p ) looks damn good.
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Offline whentheclouds

  • Posts: 613
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #328 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 06:38:44 »
assuming pwner goes ahead with the original gapless design, will it be possible to put the LED indicators further apart while maintaining the aspect/dimensions ratio?

Offline Unforgivable

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #329 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 20:57:14 »
F row with spacers? Hooray!

Offline fatpolomanjr

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #330 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 21:05:19 »
It doesn't make them unusable but it is far less efficient. On a standard F-row with spacers, you can find and use the keys easily without looking down at they keyboard. Without spacers, this is a lot harder. A 60% won't have this problem because the F-keys correspond to the standard number row placement and can be accessed without moving your hands from the home row.

As far as design philosophy, particularly for tools (like keyboards), I tend toward function over form. If it looks good while doing it, so much the better. And the Xeno (with spacers  :p ) looks damn good.

Everything in this post summarizes how I feel about having Fn row spacers. There needs to be some tactile guidance for any keys that are not reachable within the home row if you plan to use the keys without looking. And those spacers are it. The same is true for the TKL navigation cluster, where the same spacing solution works very well. Just talk to anyone that prefers WKL boards and tell them they're functionally wrong for preferring a spacer instead of a winkey.

I have a 60% TEX Yoda II and a 40% planck. The reason those Fn keys work so well, despite being hidden behind layers, is their close proximity to the alphas. I can't imagine trying to accurately touch-type dedicated Fn keys that are above the number row.

Then of course, they look WAY better. This is based on my, and many others, opinion from looking at the renders with keycaps. I can't really argue against anyone's opinion regarding aesthetics. But I will say that if there is a 50/50 split of preference, IMO function over form should be the tie breaker.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 January 2018, 05:09:31 by fatpolomanjr »
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Offline Ravahan

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #331 on: Tue, 16 January 2018, 02:50:39 »
I also agree with the points made to go for with F row spacers. It will be easier to identify the F keys on the row when touch typing with some space in between them, and like I said before I think they really add to the unique look of the board!

Offline japancakes

  • Posts: 72
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #332 on: Wed, 17 January 2018, 13:43:15 »
+1 for f-row spacers

Offline Petch

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #333 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 06:17:48 »
I've been watching this for a while. The original render without F-row spacers nailed it. And the extra space around the LEDs is a good thing!, it's a more sophisticated composition and is more commanding overall. Interesting use of "white space" is often what determines good design from everything else that's average and/or less considered. I love that the original doesn't follow the same old, stale convention… that's what makes we want to purchase it. Too many boring votes here, disappointing to see it go the other way, it's sad to see this get watered down… I so wanted to get this. I hope the designer sticks with the original vision… I'm on this in a heartbeat if so. Also, a green case option would make this EPIC.

(Attachment Link)

You act as if fkey spacers on 75% is the norm

It's not

Offline merintil

  • Posts: 37
Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #334 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 10:05:45 »
I have been going back and forth on the spacers, and while I like the original renders, the spacers have really grown on me.

Regardless of which style is chosen, I am eagerly awaiting for this keyboard (and potentially keypad) to hit the group buy phase.

Offline mike-y

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #335 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 10:40:29 »
I had originally crossed this one off my list, but now with the F-row spacers, I'm back in.  That new render is gorgeous.

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #336 on: Thu, 18 January 2018, 15:59:00 »
KBD 19x



The Chinese are so quick in copying, but slow in perfecting, and perhaps impossible to invent on their own.

Anyway, KBDfans is a top-tier company amidst all other indie makers and small groups - the 5° case is a real game changer, although heavily inspired by LeandreN's FJELL (which is in turns heavily inspired by Apple keyboard M0110).
Oh wait, Hammer is probably from Taiwan, i.e. Chinese - and Hammer case's unique design still has an irreplaceable position in MK community.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 January 2018, 16:41:50 by menuhin »
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Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #337 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 09:16:25 »
KBD 19x

Show Image


The Chinese are so quick in copying, but slow in perfecting, and perhaps impossible to invent on their own.

Anyway, KBDfans is a top-tier company amidst all other indie makers and small groups - the 5° case is a real game changer, although heavily inspired by LeandreN's FJELL (which is in turns heavily inspired by Apple keyboard M0110).
Oh wait, Hammer is probably from Taiwan, i.e. Chinese - and Hammer case's unique design still has an irreplaceable position in MK community.

Interesting.  I don't know if you've watched this, but it explains a lot:


The video claims that the concept of IP is mostly foreign (as perhaps it should be) to people who live in countries outside of the capitalist mainstream.  Imagine if all hardware was seen as opensource, just like we prefer our software.  Welcome to Shenzhen.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 1225
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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #338 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 09:51:05 »
KBD 19x

Show Image


The Chinese are so quick in copying, but slow in perfecting, and perhaps impossible to invent on their own.

Anyway, KBDfans is a top-tier company amidst all other indie makers and small groups - the 5° case is a real game changer, although heavily inspired by LeandreN's FJELL (which is in turns heavily inspired by Apple keyboard M0110).
Oh wait, Hammer is probably from Taiwan, i.e. Chinese - and Hammer case's unique design still has an irreplaceable position in MK community.

Interesting.  I don't know if you've watched this, but it explains a lot:


The video claims that the concept of IP is mostly foreign (as perhaps it should be) to people who live in countries outside of the capitalist mainstream.  Imagine if all hardware was seen as opensource, just like we prefer our software.  Welcome to Shenzhen.

I think instead of "capitalism" (which China in indeed extreme capitalist, e.g. in Shenzhen there is virtually no limit what people can do with huge wealth because law enforcers become flexible for them, compared to in the US, with the CIA and such), it is more about different concepts of how the society should be governed: by people or by written law.
In the West, the wealthy people get everything because they can pour huge amount of money to have the best lawyers to tell people they are correct in every way; in the east, the wealthy people get everything because they know the high officials in power, the enforcers and interpreters of flexible laws. In the West, the politicians help the riches to hack the system; in the east, it is more like the politicians are the system itself.

"That is clever, let me also do something in the same / a similar way" - perhaps that was how people used to think in a non-lawyers-plagued, more primitive society when survival and basic functioning of everything, e.g. farming and machines are still of utmost priority and the constitutional rights and vested interests are protected mostly by force and by people instead of by law.
In China, what is more important is probably not the law, but what the police (and the governments) allows you to do or not; and usually enforcement of law is flexible different from people to people who enforce it. This is actually quite typical Asian, until they evolve from personal negotiations to dealing with each other via legal procedures.
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 January 2018, 10:03:51 by menuhin »
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Offline Gajible

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #339 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 10:02:18 »
Dang, the unbroken aesthetic of the F row is what did it for me originally. Bummer about the spacers.

Offline Funktion

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #340 on: Fri, 19 January 2018, 17:56:56 »
I just set aside a fairly large chunk of change for this board. When the buy is finally up I'm set for a day 1 purchase.

Also, I love the spacers for the function row and would kill for the matching num pad. For my current TKL board I built a custom wood wrist rest but for this one, I want to make a modular solution that can "lock-in" the num pad for when I need it. Probably an ebony or dark walnut this time around. Now for the hardest part, waiting....
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 January 2018, 18:02:17 by Funktion »

Offline Kango_V

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #341 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 09:26:18 »
Would it not be better to have an extra key upon the right to join the lonely one? The leds could go in a vertical arrangement between f12 and this extra key.

Offline JSaintS

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #342 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 09:27:46 »
Would it not be better to have an extra key upon the right to join the lonely one? The leds could go in a vertical arrangement between f12 and this extra key.

Don't you dare touch the LEDs! :P those three dots are part of the design for me, I really like their location and layout

Offline P1kas

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #343 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 14:22:04 »
Would it not be better to have an extra key upon the right to join the lonely one? The leds could go in a vertical arrangement between f12 and this extra key.


I prefer having the gap with LEDs in the middle.
There is no such thing as "too much orange."

Offline amnesia0287

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #344 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 16:12:34 »
Would it not be better to have an extra key upon the right to join the lonely one? The leds could go in a vertical arrangement between f12 and this extra key.

no

Offline kmba

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #345 on: Sat, 20 January 2018, 18:48:57 »
Would it not be better to have an extra key upon the right to join the lonely one? The leds could go in a vertical arrangement between f12 and this extra key.

no

keyboards.

Offline Kango_V

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #346 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 05:53:44 »
Hehe, that's a serious NO there :)

Offline fatpolomanjr

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #347 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 06:17:16 »
Some guys keep on saying they believe in Jesus, and keep doing a lot of shameful things.
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Offline rmendis

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[IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #348 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 06:53:55 »
This was much more unique without the f-row spacers. Now it is starting to look more like a TKL top row.  =/

Will probably skip if the f-row spacers are there, but understand that it may be more appealing to some that way.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 January 2018, 06:55:41 by rmendis »

Offline rmendis

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Re: [IC]Xeno 75% & Xenopad
« Reply #349 on: Sun, 21 January 2018, 07:00:07 »
Dang, the unbroken aesthetic of the F row is what did it for me originally. Bummer about the spacers.

Exactly, Gabe. It takes away significantly from the original, unique aesthetic. Really sad to see the spacers come in. And the arguments for tactile need seem to ignore the dozens of layouts that people are using every day without f-row spacers.

Will be very sadly unsubscribing here. It was the only board I was looking forward to.