Author Topic: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With a Cherry Stem)  (Read 46119 times)

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Offline _haru

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:05:47 »
No I haven't. Would they actually let me keep the rights to the molds though? Most manufacturers give the rights and ownership to the customer in case they need to move to another manufacturer in the future for some reason. Not trying to be rude buy they are a knock-off company so that is my only worry that they would sell this from under me and try and profit when I just want them at cost. Just something I am slightly worried about.

I'm not sure, but I think there would have to be some sort of legal agreement about that.
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Offline donutcat

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:06:13 »
Interesting stuff for sure. Lots of people want alps compatibility for PCBs, but there's no good way to get caps for odd layouts. You either get vintage caps that don't cover the layout, SP fake alps caps that rip stems out, or thin taihao caps that are also lacking layout compatibility. This'd definitely be cool for something like my donut81 where I'm providing alps support for a layout that really doesn't have keycaps for it. Lemme know if you're looking for someone to run GB logistics or maybe foot for a decent chunk of stems.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:35:43 »
Interesting stuff for sure. Lots of people want alps compatibility for PCBs, but there's no good way to get caps for odd layouts. You either get vintage caps that don't cover the layout, SP fake alps caps that rip stems out, or thin taihao caps that are also lacking layout compatibility. This'd definitely be cool for something like my donut81 where I'm providing alps support for a layout that really doesn't have keycaps for it. Lemme know if you're looking for someone to run GB logistics or maybe foot for a decent chunk of stems.

I definitely need help with a decent chunk of stems, just depends on how big of a chunk you can get  :p. At the moment we have interest for just over 7000. Which would give a price point of $1.05 per slider, even at just 10,000 that drops down to $0.75 per slider and the price for 15,000 would be $0.56 per slider. I haven't received the other quotes I requested yet but I don't know if they will be cheaper, and this is the cheaper of the two quotes that I have received so far, the other company wanted ~$1.10 per slider for an order of 10,000...which is ridiculous.

I am also planning a 108-key pcb/kit that is alps compatible and that should hopefully be an IC soonish, but I haven't figured out everything on that one yet. That would possibly increase orders as well but that size board isn't as common among custom boards, and I don't know how many would actually go for it.

Not sure what to do atm. My head is in multiple places at once as I almost lost 3 email accounts with very important information and so far only 1 has been recovered. So I will leave this for today I think and relax. Hopefully everything sorts itself by tomorrow...

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 19:52:06 »
We have been waiting for something like this for what, a decade? We can certainly wait a few months longer.   Take your time and don’t make hasty decisions.  The last thing anyone wants to see is your life in chaos because of some plastic pieces.  We can and will wait on you.

Best of luck. 

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 20:10:35 »
We have been waiting for something like this for what, a decade? We can certainly wait a few months longer.   Take your time and don’t make hasty decisions.  The last thing anyone wants to see is your life in chaos because of some plastic pieces.  We can and will wait on you.

Best of luck.

I am in no means in a rush, I just want to get the volume of interest needed to make this a reality. At the moment this has actually grown way faster than I originally had expected. I started this thinking maybe 2000 at most would be bought because I never actively asked people or talked to people about alps boards. I now know that my original estimate would have been a bad thing and prohibitively high in cost, but where we stand today we are about half way to the actual MOQ that would make this an affordable option for us. I also just emailed the company that was cheaper to see if we could get a higher surface finish quality as they quoted a very gritty finish, so that quote will increase in cost and MOQ will rise.

I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.

Offline derzemel

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #55 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 12:01:18 »
I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.

I posted a link to this IC in the Alps Appreciation thread on Deskthority.

There a lot of ALPS fans on Deskthority which could be very interested by this IC. Also, most of them are very knowledgeable regarding alps and they can provide a lot of details and information.

@BlindAssassin111: as you are the one that started this IC, may I suggest that you start an IC thread on DT on the Group Buys section there?
All you have to do is create an account, and then create a new thread under Group Buys with the title starting like this [GB] [IC] name of thread
One more thing, please enter all the details in the new thread that you open there as well, not only a link to the the GeekHack thread. If you post only a link most of the people there will ignore it as they do not have GH accounts.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 12:17:57 »
I notice that none of the people on the list are from deskthority, which I know would have a high count for interest seeing as they love vintage more than geekhack. Has anyone shared it over there? I have never made an account there and only have looked at their wiki, so I don't know how things work over there at all.

I posted a link to this IC in the Alps Appreciation thread on Deskthority.

There a lot of ALPS fans on Deskthority which could be very interested by this IC. Also, most of them are very knowledgeable regarding alps and they can provide a lot of details and information.

@BlindAssassin111: as you are the one that started this IC, may I suggest that you start an IC thread on DT on the Group Buys section there?
All you have to do is create an account, and then create a new thread under Group Buys with the title starting like this [GB] [IC] name of thread
One more thing, please enter all the details in the new thread that you open there as well, not only a link to the the GeekHack thread. If you post only a link most of the people there will ignore it as they do not have GH accounts.

Will do,  just found out I do have an account just haven't used it in 5 years so I forgot all about it. I replied to your post to so people know who I am if they see that as well. Will update with links once I add the IC thread.

Offline BillyBuerger

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 14:34:29 »
This is awesome that someone is looking at getting this produced.  But I would recommend looking at the version that /u/Dotdash32 on reddit designed and some of the feedback there.  I made some samples of the DotDash32 ones from shapeways and they worked very well as they are.  They include the gaps on the sides for installing the dampeners which is important to me personally.  Also, in your only example you show, the slider doesn't have anything on the top sides of the stem.  I have some iRocks k76M switches which are a alps style switch with an MX stem and they don't have the sides either.  But they also added a bar to the bottom of the stem that gives additional support to the stem similar to MX switches.  I put one of these in an alps switch and without the top part of the stem, it wobbled and had binding issues.

As for thick PBT caps, I don't have any either but tested with some thick Devlin Q series caps and those do hit the housing.  My thought was that you might need to make the stem just a tad bit taller to avoid clearance issues with thick caps.

I posted about my experience here on reddit.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 14:55:08 »
This is awesome that someone is looking at getting this produced.  But I would recommend looking at the version that /u/Dotdash32 on reddit designed and some of the feedback there.  I made some samples of the DotDash32 ones from shapeways and they worked very well as they are.  They include the gaps on the sides for installing the dampeners which is important to me personally.  Also, in your only example you show, the slider doesn't have anything on the top sides of the stem.  I have some iRocks k76M switches which are a alps style switch with an MX stem and they don't have the sides either.  But they also added a bar to the bottom of the stem that gives additional support to the stem similar to MX switches.  I put one of these in an alps switch and without the top part of the stem, it wobbled and had binding issues.

As for thick PBT caps, I don't have any either but tested with some thick Devlin Q series caps and those do hit the housing.  My thought was that you might need to make the stem just a tad bit taller to avoid clearance issues with thick caps.

I posted about my experience here on reddit.

The problem with the thin top arms is that they prevent a few manufacturers from being able to injection mold the parts, which is how I originally had the design as well. So I removed them and added material on the inside to make fitment better and it actually reduces wobble compared to alps/matias sliders, they did bind but that was due to a sub par material used for the prototypes that actually would stick to the metal leaf. I am getting some better prototypes soon to see if there are any issues that need to be corrected before moving forward, and a bunch of caps as well to make sure they clear.

As for the damper compatibility, I may do something in the future but not everyone likes the damped sliders, which I am not a fan of either. And the spots for them complicates the tooling and will increase price as well as change travel distance of the slider in non damped applications. as the whole for the damper is above the stops that a normal slider hits which actually elongates the travel distance a bit.

Those are the main reasons, but I may open an IC later to see how many people would prefer the damped slider. But for now I will be doing non damped.

Offline Harms

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:09:39 »
This would be lovely to as as I always wanted a build with non dampened Matias quiet clicks and Matias clicks. However, the keycap customization was an issue

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Offline BillyBuerger

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:12:49 »
The problem with the thin top arms is that they prevent a few manufacturers from being able to injection mold the parts, which is how I originally had the design as well. So I removed them and added material on the inside to make fitment better and it actually reduces wobble compared to alps/matias sliders, they did bind but that was due to a sub par material used for the prototypes that actually would stick to the metal leaf. I am getting some better prototypes soon to see if there are any issues that need to be corrected before moving forward, and a bunch of caps as well to make sure they clear.

Ah, I see.  Glad to see you took that into consideration.  Although I prefer dampened, I might have to get in on some of these just to have around.  If I really want them dampened, I could do a latex mod on them or something.  Thanks.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:24:38 »
Updated the original post to reflect a new product that may be done to make this a better product in the end. Here is what it said so you don't have to guess what was changed:

Chyros wanted to know if I had a solution to the fact that cherry stems do barely fit inside the housing opening. He was not the first person to ask this and my answer was originally, and it can be seen at the top of the original post, that you will have to file the housing slightly to fit the stem reliably. Now I know that not everyone will be willing to do so but that is the easiest most cost effective solution out there. In order to see if people would like me to produce a top housing that also allows clearance, I have made the below form to do so. Do note that this will ONLY WORK FOR ALPS, not matias switches as they are entirely different and those will have to be filed which isn't that bad seeing as they are $0.25 switches, and you can replace them, where as alps can't be replaced sadly. So that is why some of the questions make sure you acknowledge that fact.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSff4l1Q_vhLj5R7Jnf7j3KQS7VplZ0EWz9NkFtr6Db-PBfYUA/viewform?usp=sf_link

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:50:24 »
Updated the original post to reflect a new product that may be done to make this a better product in the end. Here is what it said so you don't have to guess what was changed:

Chyros wanted to know if I had a solution to the fact that cherry stems do barely fit inside the housing opening. He was not the first person to ask this and my answer was originally, and it can be seen at the top of the original post, that you will have to file the housing slightly to fit the stem reliably. Now I know that not everyone will be willing to do so but that is the easiest most cost effective solution out there. In order to see if people would like me to produce a top housing that also allows clearance, I have made the below form to do so. Do note that this will ONLY WORK FOR ALPS, not matias switches as they are entirely different and those will have to be filed which isn't that bad seeing as they are $0.25 switches, and you can replace them, where as alps can't be replaced sadly. So that is why some of the questions make sure you acknowledge that fact.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSff4l1Q_vhLj5R7Jnf7j3KQS7VplZ0EWz9NkFtr6Db-PBfYUA/viewform?usp=sf_link

Looks like we're getting some more attention now.  that's great.  I filled out the IC for 130 newly made housing tops.

This still has me thinking though.  If you end up doing sliders and tops.... you might as well just do a switch?  IDK  Just thinking about how many people would rather just get new switches than trying to retrofit their old
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 January 2018, 16:57:26 by reececonrad »

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 17:00:02 »
Looks like we're getting some more attention now.  that's great.  I filled out the IC for 130 newly made housing tops.

Yep, Happy to have had Chyros ask me a question and I know he is right, but at the same time it sucks to have to do 2 seperate products at the same time. May need help at some point if the housing catches on as much as the slider did.

Anyone have pine alps laying around that they can send to me to model? Typically I would like a small sample (maybe 5 or so) in order to make an accurate assumption on what a dimension should actually be. I don't know what all the differences could be between the inside of the pine vs. bamboo, so I would like to check both if possible. I would prefer just the top housing just so I don't scratch you housing when taking it apart.

Offline donutcat

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:32:22 »
Imo, you'd be better off just doing the stems/tops than doing an entire switch. If you hooked up with someone like Taihao/s APC manu then it may be efficient to do the entire switch, but then you're gonna have to choose between linear/tactile/clicky, and no matter which you choose you'll end up having people split on which they want. With just the stem/top, you can appeal to anyone wanting to use their own specific switches. Plus whole switches seem like they would be a more complicated undertaking than just the addon bits. Realistically, there's benefits/drawbacks to either choice, just gotta figure out which ones you prefer to deal with.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:43:04 »
Imo, you'd be better off just doing the stems/tops than doing an entire switch. If you hooked up with someone like Taihao/s APC manu then it may be efficient to do the entire switch, but then you're gonna have to choose between linear/tactile/clicky, and no matter which you choose you'll end up having people split on which they want. With just the stem/top, you can appeal to anyone wanting to use their own specific switches. Plus whole switches seem like they would be a more complicated undertaking than just the addon bits. Realistically, there's benefits/drawbacks to either choice, just gotta figure out which ones you prefer to deal with.

I will only be doing the sliders, and top housing if enough interest, because I don't want to deal with the logistics of doing a full switch. Even doing the top housing is going to be stressful, as it is way more complicated than the slider and I am not sure how it will be molded.


And we are now at 8500 sliders!!! Once I get the response from the other manufacturer, I will determine the final pricing and probably open up the Groupbuy for the sliders soon. And then if the top housing gains interest I will handle it separately.

Offline cdn-mini

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 18:57:43 »
Why would i need a new top housing? I have SKCL Green alps

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:02:42 »
Why would i need a new top housing? I have SKCL Green alps

You don't have to get a new housing if you don't want to. The only reason I am doing that is if people don't want to have to file the top housing a small amount to clear the cap stem, some people may not feel comfortable modifying there vintage switches as you can't replace them and it is not reversible. But it doesn't require too much material removal, about 1 mm or so need to be removed in total and then it works.

Offline cdn-mini

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:06:55 »
Why would i need a new top housing? I have SKCL Green alps

You don't have to get a new housing if you don't want to. The only reason I am doing that is if people don't want to have to file the top housing a small amount to clear the cap stem, some people may not feel comfortable modifying there vintage switches as you can't replace them and it is not reversible. But it doesn't require too much material removal, about 1 mm or so need to be removed in total and then it works.


OH? hmm. No way i'm going to file my Green ALPS. So only way your slider will work is to file or buy the additional housing?

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:34:23 »
OH? hmm. No way i'm going to file my Green ALPS. So only way your slider will work is to file or buy the additional housing?

Basically yes, the reason is the stem is almost the exact same size as the opening on the alps housing which causes the cap to catch and can sometimes not actuate and be a pain to type on as it may take multiple presses on a single key. The filing just makes it so you clear the stem enough when the key isn't going down exactly straight (basically all the time is it off axis). The housing will be done so that you don't have to file them at all.

I don't blame you for not wanting to file down your green alps seeing as those are rare enough anyways. I don't really make money on these things so I am not doing the housing to make more profit, just because it does make sense to not want to damage your precious alps housings. I was going to be using these in matias switches personally as I want to build a custom rgb board with alps and I will also be putting a set in my at101w so I can have nice keycaps on it for the first time.

In total the slider plus housing would probably be around $1-$1.25 which is kinda pricey but for two parts that are custom for just this niche product, it is unavoidable.

Offline cdn-mini

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 19:37:35 »
Understand thanks.

Offline Albatross

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 21:26:10 »
I received your update email and thought I'd offer my own feedback on the new housings here.

I'll likely end up storing my rarer alps housings away and end up using the housings from some white or black alps I have laying around. I'd say at the price quoted in your email for new housings, it'd be more economical for people to find some of the more plentiful alps boards and use them as parts if they do not wish to modify their current housings. Of course time is also required to grind down the housings, but I'm already going to have to spend a fair bit of time putting in (and potentially lubing) all of the new sliders, so a bit more time doesn't mean that much to me.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 21:44:49 »
I received your update email and thought I'd offer my own feedback on the new housings here.

I'll likely end up storing my rarer alps housings away and end up using the housings from some white or black alps I have laying around. I'd say at the price quoted in your email for new housings, it'd be more economical for people to find some of the more plentiful alps boards and use them as parts if they do not wish to modify their current housings. Of course time is also required to grind down the housings, but I'm already going to have to spend a fair bit of time putting in (and potentially lubing) all of the new sliders, so a bit more time doesn't mean that much to me.

True that would be a good idea but with about 8500 sliders, that would literally each up most of the market for white and black alps boards as that is about 82 keyboards worth of housings. I don't want to see that many keyboards die for this project...But it would be cheaper at the going rate.

Offline joelfong

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 08:21:35 »
This project looks great! Looking forward to seeing the proper prototype samples. (:

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 10:53:06 »
Update:
We currently have 9000 sliders of interest which is nearing the limit for the first run, which is great!!! As well the top housing has hit just over 3000 which means that I will most likely be doing that part as well for those that do want it, just need to have a minimum of 7,500 before I will commit to doing the production of it.

I have posted but in case someone didn't see it, I need SKCM alps variants to model the top housing and to check to see if there are any small differences internal to the housing. If anyone is willing to send some over I would appreciate the help!!

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 11:27:55 »
I have been waiting for similar solutions like this for ages.

Some concern about using the MX-compatible replacement stems on Alps:

1. Are the modded switches still performing like Alps?
After all, people use Alps switches not for the spring, not particularly for the click-leaves (as they are bent and chopped) but for the slider-and-housing combination.

2. Matias is announcing his PBT caps for 2018 Q2.
The options are down to Signature Plastic and Matias for Alps caps only, but already better; however, with this GMK and BSP and SA are all possible.

Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 12:09:03 »
I have been waiting for similar solutions like this for ages.

Some concern about using the MX-compatible replacement stems on Alps:

1. Are the modded switches still performing like Alps?
After all, people use Alps switches not for the spring, not particularly for the click-leaves (as they are bent and chopped) but for the slider-and-housing combination.

2. Matias is announcing his PBT caps for 2018 Q2.
The options are down to Signature Plastic and Matias for Alps caps only, but already better; however, with this GMK and BSP and SA are all possible.

So I will be using one of highly polished finishes on the tooling in order to insure the final product is not scratchy by any means and may even be smoother than alps sliders, can't say for sure if they will be better, but I know they will be super nice.

Yes matias may be producing pbt caps, but the whole point of this is to be able to use any caps you want that you may already own or wanted but couldn't use because they were cherry mount. This solves the issue in a much better way for those who want the freedom, not knocking the matias caps, I would have loved to have them a while back but I like that I can use cherry sets that no alps cap manufacturer will most likely ever make.

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 13:24:56 »
Hope smooth POM materials can help.

Another thing is SKCM stems and SKCL stems are slightly different, and of course there are also the dampened sliders, e.g. from the SGI Granite and the AEKII:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider

I think you are aware of these when you made your design decisions.
Wishlist: 1) nice thick Alps caps; 2) Cherry profile POM;
More
Wishful-list: 1) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 2) usable Trackpoint module for all keyboards
IBM M13 black
NeXT non-ADB keyboard (AAE)
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline ZayaCaps

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 13:30:04 »
Glad to see this project is coming along. I'm interested in both the sliders and tops, but I'd like to see mock-ups of the tops as well.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 10 January 2018, 15:57:54 »
Hope smooth POM materials can help.

Another thing is SKCM stems and SKCL stems are slightly different, and of course there are also the dampened sliders, e.g. from the SGI Granite and the AEKII:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Slider

I think you are aware of these when you made your design decisions.

Yeah the fillet to allow for the smooth actuation of the contact leaf is there on the back side but just can't be seen in the picture, as well I just now changed the front to have a much smaller notch so it is more easily identifiable that that side is the tactile/click leaf side. Also did a small change to the internal cavity to make it a tad larger in order to use less material and be closer to how alps made it.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 14:38:46 »
Update:
Okay, So still waiting on the prototypes to be shipped out, seems that they are busy and haven't sent it yet. Sucks but I can't force them to produce them any faster. Hopefully they ship out by tomorrow.

I was able to get some help with the pine/bamboo top housings so I will be able to fully model them to make sure there is no major internal differences that may be present. Currently half way through modeling the SKBM housing so any differences will be added to that. I haven't decided if I will put the slits in the top for pines, but I will decide once I have the SKCM housings in my hands.

Currently we are at 9630 sliders, and 3310 housings. So once I get the prototypes in and make a video showing them off, and making any changes that I need to make it be a perfect product, I will open the GB and we will have a full first run of 10,000 most likely and if any extras are present I will sell them to those who either want a small sample or need a small quantity. I am planning on doing a round 2 in the future, so keep posted.

We still need to get more people on board with the top housings in order for it to be made. I will be modeling it and purchasing a prototype set to make sure they work well in the coming weeks. I have noticed that not many people on deskthority have joined the interest check so if you know anyone that may be interested or want to spread it more please do so.

Offline _haru

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 18:08:29 »
Update:
Okay, So still waiting on the prototypes to be shipped out, seems that they are busy and haven't sent it yet. Sucks but I can't force them to produce them any faster. Hopefully they ship out by tomorrow.

I was able to get some help with the pine/bamboo top housings so I will be able to fully model them to make sure there is no major internal differences that may be present. Currently half way through modeling the SKBM housing so any differences will be added to that. I haven't decided if I will put the slits in the top for pines, but I will decide once I have the SKCM housings in my hands.

Currently we are at 9630 sliders, and 3310 housings. So once I get the prototypes in and make a video showing them off, and making any changes that I need to make it be a perfect product, I will open the GB and we will have a full first run of 10,000 most likely and if any extras are present I will sell them to those who either want a small sample or need a small quantity. I am planning on doing a round 2 in the future, so keep posted.

We still need to get more people on board with the top housings in order for it to be made. I will be modeling it and purchasing a prototype set to make sure they work well in the coming weeks. I have noticed that not many people on deskthority have joined the interest check so if you know anyone that may be interested or want to spread it more please do so.

Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..

SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.
AMJ60 - 45g MX White | GH60 Rev. C - Ghost Gateron Blacks | DFK101 - Alps SKCM Cream | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL - 62g Vintage MX Ergo Clear

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 19:25:36 »
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..

SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.

I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.

Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.

I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin)  ;)

Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...

I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 19:40:19 »
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..

SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.

I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.

Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.

I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin)  ;)

Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...

I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.

I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:07:44 »
I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)

I will be making a single housing that should work with both SKBM and SKCM, but the matias housing is entierly different and not compatible at all and the whole switch costs ~$0.25 anyways so I don't see the point in making a $0.50 part when you can just file it a tad.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:11:21 »
I feel like Matias top housing will have more appeal than SKBM, seeing as Matias switches are still being made and easily obtained through retail channels. Obviously SKCM ones are the only thing of real interest to me, just my 2 cents about the simplified top housing (if you're still moving forward with that)

I will be making a single housing that should work with both SKBM and SKCM, but the matias housing is entierly different and not compatible at all and the whole switch costs ~$0.25 anyways so I don't see the point in making a $0.50 part when you can just file it a tad.

Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:27:56 »
Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible

I will find out tomorrow when I get 5 bamboo and 5 pine housings. :thumb:

I don't see where they would have been vastly different, the contact mechanism takes up almost the same exact volume, just contained more parts in that space. And the leafs I believe are cross compatible anyways, so not really room to be different. But if there are differences that are drastic I will know soon, but I don't foresee that happening.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 20:34:44 »
Is this true? I was under the impression that SKBM too housing is different to SKCM and not cross compatible

I will find out tomorrow when I get 5 bamboo and 5 pine housings. :thumb:

I don't see where they would have been vastly different, the contact mechanism takes up almost the same exact volume, just contained more parts in that space. And the leafs I believe are cross compatible anyways, so not really room to be different. But if there are differences that are drastic I will know soon, but I don't foresee that happening.

I've always assumed that the non self-contained nature of the contact leafs in SKBM switches requires the too housing to have retainer clips built into the final moulded part (similar to the ridges that retains the contact leafs in a Matias switch...
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Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 05:29:26 »
Apart from a group buy of Alps-to-MX stems and replacement Alps top housings, I am seeing some bold experiments here.

Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)

Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).

Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 January 2018, 05:31:56 by menuhin »
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Offline _haru

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 06:48:20 »
Apart from a group buy of Alps-to-MX stems and replacement Alps top housings, I am seeing some bold experiments here.

Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)

Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).

Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.

Matias did not simplify SKCM. They are clones of Simplified alps, known as the SKBM/SKBL family.
AMJ60 - 45g MX White | GH60 Rev. C - Ghost Gateron Blacks | DFK101 - Alps SKCM Cream | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL - 62g Vintage MX Ergo Clear

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 07:17:51 »
Apart from a group buy of Alps-to-MX stems and replacement Alps top housings, I am seeing some bold experiments here.

Why don't you go just one step further?
Re-make complicated SKCL and SKCM switches (but with MX or whatever stem you like to design)

Matias's simplification of SKCM design has compromised a lot of desirable qualities of the older Alps switches (e.g. Alps Orange/Salmon, Alps Blue/White, Alps linear Greens/Amber, Alps dampened Cream).

Mechanical keyboard is such a niche market, you can definitely find buyers with such a revival Alps design, as long as you set your price right and competitive.

Matias did not simplify SKCM. They are clones of Simplified alps, known as the SKBM/SKBL family.

Fair enough to say what Matias actually did more accurately.

Most people like SKCL and SKCM over the simplified Alps.
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Offline _haru

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 08:38:48 »
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..

SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.

I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.

Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.

I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin)  ;)

Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...

I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.

Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.
AMJ60 - 45g MX White | GH60 Rev. C - Ghost Gateron Blacks | DFK101 - Alps SKCM Cream | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL - 62g Vintage MX Ergo Clear

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 10:27:36 »
Um. I hope you meant SKCM there..

SKBM is simplified alps and no one should use it if they value their fingers.

I meant SKBM, I am making it to work with any and all alps, and will make sure that it works well for both applications and doesn't affect anything other than make some people butthurt that SKBM is supported. :p If the SKCM housing is so different that I can't make it work for both, then I will not support SKBM and have to have those be filed like the matias housings will be. I was wanting to use my sliders in my at101w so I can have nice caps on it, but I will most likely file if I can't support SKBM.

Will know by tomorrow as the package is so graciously going to arrive by 10 am thanks to sncbraxsc2.

I have been typing on SKBM click modded blacks for the entirety of the IC period. I can love what I want, just like some people love mx brown(which is an actual sin)  ;)

Do I want SKCM alps again, yes but I have to find a board I want first, which is hard. Had a fk-2001 but sold it to a friend doing a restore on an 80's computer and he needed a computer with a 5 pin plug, it didn't have blues(had SKCM whites) so I wasn't attached to it at the time, but I want it back now sadly...

I do value my fingers, I just can't type nearly as fast as a lot of keyboard enthusiasts, due to mild psoriatic arthritis, so I may be different but I love alps still, just don't have $$$$ to buy boards.

Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.

That's what I thought too
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 10:39:19 »
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.

That was a misunderstanding from years ago then, I had read about it being an SKBM at the time and I just remembered that. I never realized they were SKCM...well that makes life easier, now I know they work with generation I wanted. Makes me feel dumb for not realizing it was complicated alps, I have never taken apart another SKCM board I have owned, so never looked to see.

I don't see why people keep misunderstanding me...I never said I was going to make a matias compatible housing, I was going to make a SKBM and SKCM compatible housing, until now because now I realize that I have SKCM alps...

Bought this board when I was in high school so didn't know much about them at the time other than I wanted to try alps switches, good to have that misunderstanding corrected though...still feel dumb. :-[

Offline Harms

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 12:24:07 »
I thought the same thing before reading through.

I thought you would make Matias Compatible housing  as well.


Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 12:44:21 »
I thought the same thing before reading through.

I thought you would make Matias Compatible housing  as well.

Nope, matias switches are already $0.25 for the full switch, I see no reason to make replacements for them as they are ultra cheap, RGB compatible and way too hard for me to reverse engineer right now, would need a lot more specialized measuring tools or would have to design a new one from scratch which takes a long time. It just doesn't make sense to charge double the cost of the matias switch just for the top housing. As well interest is only at 3600 for the top housing, and it will probably jump up once I get a picture and video of them up on here.

SKCM housings are the only thing I am making, matias housing and SKBM housings will have to be filed down to fit cherry caps reliably.


TL;DR SKCM = compatible with my top housing, Matias = Not compatible with my housing

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 13:06:13 »
Er mate. I think you're a tad mixed up on some things. At101Ws came with SKCM Black. SKBM housings are the same as matias housings. You can't make a universal SKCM/BM/Matias top housing.

That was a misunderstanding from years ago then, I had read about it being an SKBM at the time and I just remembered that. I never realized they were SKCM...well that makes life easier, now I know they work with generation I wanted. Makes me feel dumb for not realizing it was complicated alps, I have never taken apart another SKCM board I have owned, so never looked to see.

I don't see why people keep misunderstanding me...I never said I was going to make a matias compatible housing, I was going to make a SKBM and SKCM compatible housing, until now because now I realize that I have SKCM alps...

Bought this board when I was in high school so didn't know much about them at the time other than I wanted to try alps switches, good to have that misunderstanding corrected though...still feel dumb. :-[

You said you were making SKBM top housing, which I think is the thing that created confusion. Now we're all on the same page hopefully!
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Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 13:11:05 »
You said you were making SKBM top housing, which I think is the thing that created confusion. Now we're all on the same page hopefully!

Yeah I figured as much, that damn misunderstanding of mine messed with other peoples heads...Don't know where I read that the AT101W had SKBM, but I remember opening the switches recently and thinking that is looked like SKCM...there was a reason for that. :rolleyes: :-[

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 14:16:56 »
And like you said, we can easily file down matias housings since they are fairly cheap and easy to get.  I personally like the newly tooled Matias switches a lot, but I'm looking forward to getting some MX caps on my older boards I've been picking up lately.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Nexus Slider (Alps Slider With Cherry Stem)
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 12 January 2018, 14:48:39 »
And like you said, we can easily file down matias housings since they are fairly cheap and easy to get.  I personally like the newly tooled Matias switches a lot, but I'm looking forward to getting some MX caps on my older boards I've been picking up lately.

How recent was their tooling change? I have some that get here on tuesday.