[IC] NovelPro - A New Keycap Profile from NovelKeys

[SpectreiiI]

So, quick update:

I ran into a rather complex problem involving the legend molds, specifically the modifier legends. It took over a week and literally 12 different methodological changes before I finally stumbled into a solution. The details are rather verbose (and boring), but essentially I have come up with a form that allows the same legend plates to be used for a modifier of any length while maintaining the curved edges of the dish. This is far more aesthetically pleasing than the alternative (think flatish, inconsistently lofted sides on SP doubleshot mods).

Here is a quick illustrative I worked up.


Anyway, now I can (finally) start on legend plates.

[SpectreiiI]

The latest revision...

I, personally, am quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what will be produced. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.

I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.

[BobCarltheThird]

Show Image

The latest revision...

I, personally, and quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what sizes and options will be offered. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.

I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.

Good work man, can't wait to throw my money at the project once it's completed.

[KaosJ]

Show Image

The latest revision...

I, personally, am quite satisfied with the forms. Yes, legends still need to be done (in progress) and yes there will be many more keys offered. That said, I have little (to no) say as to what will be produced. Cost will dictate much of those decisions and Mike will make that call when the time comes.

I wanted to extend my gratitude to everyone who has provided me with the valuable feedback that was required to get this right and especially Mike for giving me the opportunity to design this profile. This will be the last update I post. Look to Mike for future content and support.

Is the top arrow a mistake?


Also, at the end you are not considering lowering a bit the last row caps inclination, making it more linear with the rest of the profile (slightly)

[dead_pixel_design]

Interested..

[SpectreiiI]

Is the top arrow a mistake?


Also, at the end you are not considering lowering a bit the last row caps inclination, making it more linear with the rest of the profile (slightly)

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No, but I'm sure an r2 or r3 up arrow will be the default. I like very little step and a lot of sculpt between my arrow rows. Just a preference thing.

The lowest alpha row and mod row (r1-2) are the same profile row like in modern cherry, Leopold (SS2), and filco (OEM) profile and the angle of the touch surface is comparable. The relationship between the row angles across the entire profile is progressive, not linear. This is to best match the angle of the touch surfaces to the angle at which fingers curl and extend, which is also progressive. That said, there are other r2 versions already modeled which are less aggressive. Nothing is set in stone.

Alternate row 1 profiles have been designed, though they would add considerable capital cost. It is possible that one will be offered, but as Mike said earlier in the thread, the feasibility is currently uncertain.

[mgsickler]

An update on my end. I’ve met with the tooling/manufacturing company. They were really enthused about the project, but are currently working on giving me some ball park numbers for the cost.

Once I get those numbers, I can start working on the getting everything in place. I thought I would have had a quote earlier, but the company really wants to make sure that they give a really close estimate number. They know how important getting the molds perfected means to the community and the project.

Hopefully I’ll have some more news in the coming weeks!

[a_ak57]

Looking really nice, I like the design choices/reasoning.  Would you be able to post a side view of this compared to some other profiles to help translate it to real life? 

[SpectreiiI]

Looking really nice, I like the design choices/reasoning.  Would you be able to post a side view of this compared to some other profiles to help translate it to real life?

I will work on this

[jebbra]

What font you guys have in mind for now?

[SpectreiiI]

What font you guys have in mind for now?

I like eurostile rounded.

[jebbra]

What font you guys have in mind for now?

I like eurostile rounded.

Ahh so this will go with a more "futuristic" approach. May I suggest a more timeless one? Gotham family is quite classic IMO, or maybe Varela Round.

[SpectreiiI]

It's not really about the idea, it's a matter of how the glyphs complement features of the touch surface. As I said, Eurostile is my preference, but Gotham and DIN are also being considered.

In my opinion, Gotham is an excellent choice. The issue is (and this is the case with any typeface), certain glyphs which were initially intended to be complimentary to an expression, have a hard time standing out on their own. Gotham has a lot of symbols that fall in this category.

I like Eurostile because I find that the weighting (Especially of O shaped characters) compliments the shape of the dishes, and the glyphs tend to stand out in a way which is more cohesive to the legend set as a whole.

DIN round is also being considered, and Mike has expressed that he prefers it over Eurostile. So, nothing is set in stone. Thanks for the feedback.

[zslane]

Gotham is probably the most neutral looking, and will better match the style of vintage keycap legends (like Space Cadet, Honeywell, etc.). Just something to think about.

[SpectreiiI]

Gotham is probably the most neutral looking, and will better match the style of vintage keycap legends (like Space Cadet, Honeywell, etc.). Just something to think about.

In the case of space cadet, new plates will need to be made for a majority of the legends anyway, but I hear yah.

[Allo]

DIN Round looks really nice! It would work well with a lot of keyset themes too.

[dr_derivative]

Eurostile could look pretty cool. It's a refined version of Microgramma, which was actually used on Commodore PETs and early VIC-20s.

[Cods]

Looks good. Will buy!

[SpectreiiI]

A potential hybrid bottom row...

[Techno Trousers]

Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.

[zslane]

Those stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.

[SpectreiiI]

Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.

Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing else

Those stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.

It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.

[BobCarltheThird]

Woah! Now that is thinking outside the box. I'm not sure if I like the stepped caps, but it would definitely make this profile truly unique.

Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut, but it's a fun exercise if nothing else

Those stepped keycaps are an interesting way of trying to transition from angled ALT keys to a flat spacebar. Personally I don't think they are necessary. IMO, they don't improve the aesthetics over simply using normal ALT keys with a flat spacebar. The change from angled to flat is going to look funky either way; the stepping just makes it look even stranger (and not necessarily better), in my view.

It's not just the stepped alts. The spacebar is actually matched to the profile of the steps, which is substantially different from a standard flat row such as r4. If you were to simply place an r4 spacebar between r1 mods, it would not be aligned with any single face of the other keys.

For what it's worth I like it ...

[Findecanor]

Hey, the Alts are the only modifiers I use on the bottom row. Don't mess with them!

And, as I said before, I prefer those to be convex because I press them with my thumbs.

[SpectreiiI]

Hey, the Alts are the only modifiers I use on the bottom row. Don't mess with them!

And, as I said before, I prefer those to be convex because I press them with my thumbs.

Just offering some potential options, not replacing anything. As far as convex mods go, if it were only for 1.25 and 1.5u, I wouldn't say they were outside the realm of possibility, but I would think the best way to ensure production is to do a group buy.

[livingspeedbump]

Like the cool and unique ideas, and the effort going into community feedback here 

Will be excited to see what you come up with, definitely a thread I'll be watching.

[zslane]

Certainly convex mods that match the spacebar in terms of angle and height would be really cool, and it might be sufficient to just start with 1.25u and expand to other sizes later on if they prove popular with designers. It would definitely make this new profile stand apart from the crowd.

[Techno Trousers]

I wouldn't mind convex mods. It would be reminiscent of the beamspring bottom row, but not quite so low in comparison to the rest of the keys.

[FrostyToast]

There is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.
Everyone seems to be on the retro chain, but we have a fairly decent amount of offerings for spherical sets. XDA, DSA, MT3, SA, even MAXKEYS has their own sculpted sphericals.
However, there doesn't seem to be any option for low profile sculpted caps, or even just low profile cylindrical.

[SpectreiiI]

Like the cool and unique ideas, and the effort going into community feedback here 

Will be excited to see what you come up with, definitely a thread I'll be watching.

Thanks for the support. It really means a lot coming from an aficionado such as yourself. I would trade a kidney for your raytheon board.

I wouldn't mind convex mods. It would be reminiscent of the beamspring bottom row, but not quite so low in comparison to the rest of the keys.

Certainly convex mods that match the spacebar in terms of angle and height would be really cool, and it might be sufficient to just start with 1.25u and expand to other sizes later on if they prove popular with designers. It would definitely make this new profile stand apart from the crowd.

Ok. As always, I am just a designer, but I will work on getting a couple of convex r1 options modeled.

Just a fair disclaimer, since they are convex, profile and legend molds will have to be unique for this to work, so all of this adds capital cost and reduces the likelyhood of fruition.

[SpectreiiI]

Someone had asked for a profile overlay for comparison and I lost my patience trying to make a pretty render so here is a potato one instead

SSS is superimposed in blue over the corresponding profile in red. From the top down is SA, MIX, Filco (OEM), and Cherry.

[Vulcan]

May i know what plastic injection machine are you going to use?

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[mgsickler]

May i know what plastic injection machine are you going to use?

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Thats way down the road from now.

I am still in talks with my tooling company, and then after that I will finalize the profile, then work with the tooling company to produce some initial sets, and then from there I would be looking in to getting some machines.

[a_ak57]

Someone had asked for a profile overlay for comparison and I lost my patience trying to make a pretty render so here is a potato one instead

Show Image

SSS is superimposed in blue over the corresponding profile in red. From the top down is SA, MIX, Filco (OEM), and Cherry.

Thanks a bunch for this!  Looks like what I'd want from a new spherical layout, kind of a more ergonomically sculpted Cherry profile.

[zslane]

There is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.

I suspect that SP's revived DSS profile will be the closest thing we're going to get to a low profile sculptured spherical keycap family. Though it, like this NovelKeys profile, may be closer to medium profile than low profile. Still, it will be substantially lower than SA (which is what Maxkey produces) or MT3 (which is itself a little lower than SA).

[dead_pixel_design]

so here is a potato one instead

I appreciate this, this is super helpful.

[DasGnome]

Casting my vote for DIN first, Gotham second, and Eurostile a distant....just please no

[dsaf]

Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...

Thank you, I would buy a kit with stepped keys, especially with a stepped ISO enter!
Could stepped caps-lock have a stem that is positioned to be compatible with TKL keyboards-one-can-actually-buy (e.g. Filco, Varmilo) as opposed to some mythical "standard" TKL keyboards?

Also, any thoughts on the pilot key-set? I would be interested in RetroBlight or Nuntucket Selectric. Something rare and colourful but not too crazy.

PS: since starting from scratch - any possibility of triple-shots or something weird like embossed rather than level legends?

[BobCarltheThird]

There is also the possibility for low profile sculpted.

I suspect that SP's revived DSS profile will be the closest thing we're going to get to a low profile sculptured spherical keycap family. Though it, like this NovelKeys profile, may be closer to medium profile than low profile. Still, it will be substantially lower than SA (which is what Maxkey produces) or MT3 (which is itself a little lower than SA).

Don't forget the  HUB profile that Van Keyboards is working on

[SpectreiiI]

Thanks, I'm modeling stepped caps, shifts, and iso enter as well. I have no idea what will or will not make the cut...

Thank you, I would buy a kit with stepped keys, especially with a stepped ISO enter!
Could stepped caps-lock have a stem that is positioned to be compatible with TKL keyboards-one-can-actually-buy (e.g. Filco, Varmilo) as opposed to some mythical "standard" TKL keyboards?

Also, any thoughts on the pilot key-set? I would be interested in RetroBlight or Nuntucket Selectric. Something rare and colourful but not too crazy.

PS: since starting from scratch - any possibility of triple-shots or something weird like embossed rather than level legends?

yeah, stepped iso enter is a hat tip to bigger-ass enters like you would find on a extel teleprinter. Looks rad. I'm not sure what the pilot set will be, but something like honeywell would be fitting, considering the profile's roots. The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done. Embossed legends wont happen. They collect dirt and there simply isn't a big enough demand to justify the tooling. Thanks for the feedback.

[Techno Trousers]

The caps were designed from the ground up to accomodate triple shot legends, so if there is enough demand, it can be done.

I demand it!

[mgsickler]

A quick update on the progress of everything.

I have had a bunch of meetings, emails, and phone calls on this project. We had some pretty good numbers laid out in our initial projections, but we received a ballpark quote for the tooling yesterday. This estimate was nearly double what we had initially come up with.

What this means:

- The project is NOT dead, and will continue, and the timeline is still on track.
- We will have to go a different route with the profile. This is because with the investors and the amount we are looking at, I wouldnt be able to offer SpectreiiI a fair amount for his work. I really appreciate the work that he has put in, and he has a very nice looking profile. Unfortunately, I wont be able to use it. 
- I will begin work on my own, unique profile. Once I have some design updates, I will make a post here with some renders. No ETA on that, but looking to be around May or so for those renders.

Sorry to disappoint anyone by not being able to use SpectreiiI's profile. We have no hard feelings, and like I said, I really liked his profile. Stay tuned for updates.

[Techno Trousers]

Oh, what a bummer. I'll stay tuned for the new look.

[notflipperdan420]

seems interesting 

[cfiggis]

That's unfortunate. What features of the profile made it so much more expensive to tool than anticipated?

[mgsickler]

That's unfortunate. What features of the profile made it so much more expensive to tool than anticipated?

It wasnt the profile that made it more expensive. It was just the tooling itself. We had some rough quotes from beforehand that we went off, and unfortunately, those were not correct or even close.

[Vulcan]

Do you have a rough sketch on how the new profile will look like?

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[mgsickler]

Do you have a rough sketch on how the new profile will look like?

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No, I wont be posting any sketches, just the initial rough render around May.

[SpectreiiI]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to say that it has been a pleasure working with mgsickler. He is a class act. Though our collaboration on this project has come to an end, I am confident that Novelkeys new profile will live up to the outstanding quality and performance that we have all enjoyed in their current products.

Thanks to mike and the community for your time and support of my work. This has been an invaluable experience for me. Best of luck to Novelkeys. I will be watching intently to see where this goes.

George

[GarrettSucks]

<3