geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Pixel_Outlaw on Wed, 19 May 2010, 00:05:20
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I was just wondering what the future will hold for Unicomp. From the impression that I have seen online it looks like they are a very small scale operation. Maybe somebody can correct me on this. I would really hate to think of them going out of business anytime soon. I know they probably have to be making some profit from their sales and repairs but can the entire company be funded by a small pocket of hard core fans?
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Were they? I was under the impression they've been on the verge of bankruptcy for years.
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I would hope not but they don't have any tenkeyless in stock.
I don't know if thats bad or good.
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I would hope not but they don't have any tenkeyless in stock.
ask them if they have any more of these in stock:
tenkeyless Unicomp spacesaver:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2631&d=1244832368)
tenkeyless Unicomp Endurapro:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2632)
:)
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I see you trollin'
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Maybe they haven't updated the website. I checked for those and they show "out of stock".
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Maybe they haven't updated the website. I checked for those and they show "out of stock".
thats a pity. i was hoping they'd have 'em by now.
they'd do much better business if they had those in stock. I've always said that.
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I see you trollin'
;) just entertaining myself at 3 AM. ;)
I couldnt do it tho. i sent him a PM with a link to the petition thread ;)
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this seems to come up alot, but I see no real reason to believe they are not doing fine. That would be great if they do a new tenkeyless though. I would definately be in line for that!!!!
Perhaps they are just not that into the website, and are rely more on repeat customers and larger companies than the web store front.
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Don't worry, their magic machine that can make anything will save them...
>_>
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Future of Unicomp:
(http://www.sagecomm.com/storage/cliff.jpg)
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I see no reason to think they are not doing fine at the moment, except perhaps that they haven't bothered to keep their own domain.
Their core business is filling corporate orders, and they've stuck to that core business pretty much to the exclusion of all else. This is somewhat of a disappointment to some geekhackers, since there are neat products we would like to see with the Model M mechanism. But, more importantly, from their point of view, there's a potential danger.
If that core business gradually declines, because fewer and fewer businesses - whether out of force of habit, or because, like Topre's corporate customers, they find it worth dollars and cents to get more accurate typing from their employees with a quality keyboard with feedback - feel a need for exact Model M replacements, or 104-key modernized model Ms... then, unless there's something else to fall back on, what will be left?
I don't know how well their core business is doing, so I can't worry too much.
Also, it's unclear to me to where they could branch out. Any direction of interest to us would involve buckling springs. Is there any reason to think that HP or DELL would suddenly switch to including $70 buckling spring keyboards with their products instead of quieter $20 rubber dome keyboards? Is there any reason to think that Unicomp could succeed if it started competing with Cybernet and ASUS by making computers-in-a-keyboard, especially if under a handicap of using a more expensive keyboard mechanism?
The only thing I can see as plausible - which would lead to a product some here at GH, including myself, would like - is branching out into the Point-of-Sale market more fully. Other companies make point-of-sale keyboards that are both programmable and using mechanical switches. Accurate data entry is important in the point-of-sale world, so buckling springs could carve out a place there.
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Is there any reason to think that Unicomp could succeed if it started competing with Cybernet and ASUS by making computers-in-a-keyboard, especially if under a handicap of using a more expensive keyboard mechanism?
I was actually thinking about that. I would definitely buy a Cybernet All-in-One PC (keyboard-style) if the keyboard was BS or Cherry.
Their core business is filling corporate orders, and they've stuck to that core business pretty much to the exclusion of all else. This is somewhat of a disappointment to some geekhackers, since there are neat products we would like to see with the Model M mechanism. But, more importantly, from their point of view, there's a potential danger.
Actually, from his interview with NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100076874), Neil Muyskens said he has plans to diversify:
KASTE: Just the industries that are taking the biggest hit in this recession. Since the start of the year Muyskens has laid off a third of his workforce and things look grim. Still, he's got the pocket protector optimism of an old school IBMer. He says he wants to engineer his way out of this by selling more customized keyboards to individuals, say the gamers who want their flame thrower keys positioned just so. And Muyskens is even reconsidering some old designs for what he calls silent buckling springs...
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He says "Silent Buckling Springs..." then nothing else? I'd like to know more. I'd love a board as tactile as a buckling spring but quiet as a Topre
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Actually, I want Unicomp to build the other members of the IBM keyboard series, like the M15, Model F, etc.
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Actually, I want Unicomp to build the other members of the IBM keyboard series, like the M15, Model F, etc.
That would be awesome. The problem is, especially for the M15, is that they no longer own the patents on some of them, so they can't make them. I think the M15 would probably be a bad seller other than us geeks.
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they no longer own the patents on some of them, so they can't make them.
I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this.
When a patent expires, you can still make the patented item; the problem is that so can anyone else. Do you mean the patents are still in force, but have reverted to IBM? If so, that comes as a surprise to me.
Or, perhaps what is really meant is that for some items, like the M15, they don't have the molds and tooling for those keyboards, so starting to make them would involve an inordinate expense. (Beam springs would be lovely, but there is no chance of such keyboards being produced at a price, even if somewhat high, that would allow adequate sales.)
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I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this.
When a patent expires, you can still make the patented item; the problem is that so can anyone else. Do you mean the patents are still in force, but have reverted to IBM? If so, that comes as a surprise to me.
Or, perhaps what is really meant is that for some items, like the M15, they don't have the molds and tooling for those keyboards, so starting to make them would involve an inordinate expense. (Beam springs would be lovely, but there is no chance of such keyboards being produced at a price, even if somewhat high, that would allow adequate sales.)
I believe the M15 patents got sold to Maxi Switch (which then got bought out by Lite-On) who is just sitting on them now.
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I believe the M15 patents got sold to Maxi Switch (which then got bought out by Lite-On) who is just sitting on them now.
Also, that patents are comparitively recent, being filed around 1995 or so.
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He says "Silent Buckling Springs..." then nothing else? I'd like to know more. I'd love a board as tactile as a buckling spring but quiet as a Topre
I can understand why he is saying very little. If they can achieve that, then offices which, until now, have resisted the idea of bringing in buckling spring keyboards due to the major problem of the sound level would be candidate customers if there were benefits for them from more accurate typing at a lower price premium than that of Topre.
Of course, the big question here is if they can achieve that before the Topre patents run out. Once every keyboard manufacturer and his uncle is making an imitation Topre, it will be too late to achieve wild success with another quiet tactile keyboard.
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If you buckle a buckling spring key in your hand, they don't make a huge amount of noise. I think there could be a way to construct the keyboard so that the sound doesn't reverberate inside the keyboard so much. It wouldn't be completely silent, but it would definitely would be far more acceptable than a Model M or F.
Actually, I want Unicomp to build the other members of the IBM keyboard series, like the M15, Model F, etc.
Quickly, someone turn on the magic machine! While it's up, put on an order for a chryselephantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chryselephantine_sculpture) Beam Spring keyboard.
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I think there could be a way to construct the keyboard so that the sound doesn't reverberate inside the keyboard so much.
Larger diameter spring wells with soft inserts. Industrial equivalent of dental floss in the springs. Should be pretty silent without losing much tactility. Would only need new molds for the upper plastic plate, and a machine to stuff stuff into springs. Inserts could be added manually with keys without too much effort, unless it turns out a megaseller.
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Quickly, someone turn on the magic machine! While it's up, put on an order for a chryselephantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chryselephantine_sculpture) Beam Spring keyboard.
If I recall correctly, what one needs is a really hot cup of tea to power such a device...
I do remember someone noting that given that the greased springs have no warranty, a safer method might be to put urethane foam in the springs.
But since the noise is from the spring hitting the plastic walls of its cylindrical surround, rather than putting something in the spring itself, my inclination would be to change the mold of the surround so there was extra space for the spring to buckle into, and then fill that space with some type of foam rubber.
As for a Beam Spring keyboard, one does not have to go as far as to make it of ivory and gold; but if one wished to get fancy, a steampunk Beam Spring keyboard might be of interest...
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A lot of tests were carried out here to see where the noise in a buckling spring came from. Ripster tested the barrel theory and it wasn't particularly conclusive, but I think it pretty much suggested that the barrel doesn't make much noise.
My theory is that it's really the other way around - if you slowly depress a buckling spring key, and then release it, you'll note that the down press makes a short snap, whereas releasing it causes the ping. I think that the spring hitting the barrel absorbs the vibrations in the spring, so that you only hear the snap as it buckles, but as it buckles back into position, the spring vibrates as it comes to rest, and this causes the ping that you hear.
The problem with testing whether the barrel causes the noise is that the only way to test it is by removing the part of the barrel that the spring hits. But this interferes with the acoustics of the keyboard (obviously something that occurs within an enclosed barrel is going to sound different if you expose part of the barrel so that the sound isn't reverberating inside the keyboard) so it's hard to say either way.
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I wish them the best of luck with whatever they try, but targeting gamers? Gaming is about the only thing buckling springs aren't very good for.
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My theory is that it's really the other way around - if you slowly depress a buckling spring key, and then release it, you'll note that the down press makes a short snap, whereas releasing it causes the ping. I think that the spring hitting the barrel absorbs the vibrations in the spring, so that you only hear the snap as it buckles, but as it buckles back into position, the spring vibrates as it comes to rest, and this causes the ping that you hear.
In that case, I guess that the hole has to be reshaped in the opposite way, so that when the spring is in the at-rest vertical position, it is resting against a protrusion from the opposite side of the well from the direction in which it buckles.
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It seems like they still hasn't released anything new since that NPR report last year, maybe it's all hot air? :(
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Still waiting on the mystical buckling spring M4-1...
Christ, if that ever comes out, I'll buy two of them...
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Just providing an industrial insert should do the trick. The dental floss mod works great, and if you use the periodontal floss, you can get it so you hear no buckle sound on the up or down-swing. You have to be very precise with the floss length to get it perfect, though. But I bet that wouldn't be an issue for Unicomp. There is probably a better material too.
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I wish them the best of luck with whatever they try, but targeting gamers? Gaming is about the only thing buckling springs aren't very good for.
But buckling springs still beat the crap out of the Logitech ****otronic LCD keyboards.