geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: phinix on Tue, 18 June 2019, 06:49:13
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
For me mainly aesthetics, it looks nicer, and I dont frequently use the windows key.
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
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Windows isnt my dad. I don't want to push windows buttons.
HHKB FOR LYFE!!!!!!!!!
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
i map the right alt key to win key.
problem solved.
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
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Its also trendy.
2019 in one board:
- Polycarb
- Gasket mount
- WKL
- 75%
- Holy pandas
- GMK Olivia (or Serika)
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It's not like they don't have a way to use window keys shortcuts, you could just put the windows key on a layer, or map it to a key you don't use.
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
Oh, wanted to ask - what does OG mean? I know its for retro cherry caps, but what does it mean?
I have a set that I assume is old from some old keyboard, cherry profile white on beige ABS, plus someone who I bought it from added some moogle kit (is this how its called?) as mods feel different a bit and are not that thick as alphas...
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
Oh, wanted to ask - what does OG mean? I know its for retro cherry caps, but what does it mean?
I have a set that I assume is old from some old keyboard, cherry profile white on beige ABS, plus someone who I bought it from added some moogle kit (is this how its called?) as mods feel different a bit and are not that thick as alphas...
OG = Original. It's just another way of referencing original Cherry keysets (either PBT or ABS), all of which are WKL.
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Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
1. Yes. I use primarily Linux
2. I have long had a hate for Microsoft, and I don't want any stupid Windows logo on my keyboard, even if I (have to) use Windows occasionally.
3. To reuse keycaps from old WKL keyboards, or old keyboards at all.
Actually, I prefer the right Alt (Alt Gr in Swedish layout) in its position on a Winkeyful keyboard.
The Windows key did not have that many uses to begin with back in '95. Shortcuts with the key have been introduced now and then. All of them are optional.
BTW. The Menu key was introduced together with the Windows key, and it is pretty useless. There are now many keyboards with Windows keys that don't have Menu.
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It pulls up the start menu when I don't want to and I don't use any of the winkey combinations.
It's in the way, makes Ctrl and Alt harder to find and hit (because they get smaller), and I also think it looks worse.
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There's another reason I'm surprised I don't see mentioned.
WKL layouts are preferred by some gamers. It is believed that the Windows key interferes with gaming.
This is something that does happen while gaming, particularly when going for the CTRL or ALT keys in combination with a letter. You might accidentally launch File Explorer or something.
This problem mostly occurs in windowed mode gaming, when the OS is still listening for general commands. Just hitting the Windows key accidentally [nestled between two popular gaming keys] can shift your focus to the Start menu.
But many modern games can disable the Windows key, and it can be done at the OS level, so this isn't the primary reason some gamers dislike the Windows key.
The primary reason some gamers dislike the Windows key is that it has literally taken space from the CTRL and ALT keys which, as you know, were previously larger. For retro gamers, this is a problem. The CTRL and ALT keys are important for retro FPS' like Doom and Blood. Having larger CTRL and ALT keys, with space between them, makes for a more comfortable retro gaming experience. This also applies to popular platform games, such as Commander Keen.
So a WKL layout is more comfortable for playing retro games with the classic controls.
Other people prefer WKL for the reasons stated above, namely they are accustomed to layouts that don't require an OS key because they aren't using Windows [perhaps a command-line OS], and many keyboard hipsters simply like the look of WKL. You can use OG keysets with them, and the larger keys are simply more satisfying to use - which is a primary motivation for custom keyboard building (not being stuck with 'mediocre mass-market crap').
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
Some people use super. Others use terminals
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
Oh, wanted to ask - what does OG mean? I know its for retro cherry caps, but what does it mean?
I have a set that I assume is old from some old keyboard, cherry profile white on beige ABS, plus someone who I bought it from added some moogle kit (is this how its called?) as mods feel different a bit and are not that thick as alphas...
OG = Original. It's just another way of referencing original Cherry keysets (either PBT or ABS), all of which are WKL.
Technically, OG means "original gangster". In gang culture, it refers to people who have been in the gang since it was formed and have somehow survived to the present day. I have no idea wtf it's used in reference to keycaps though.
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Well, Windows has a graphical user interface designed to be used with a mouse. So either I enter text via the keyboard or I navigate Windows with the mouse. Why for example should I press the Windows key to open the start menu - instead of clicking the Windows icon, when I then use the mouse anyway to select the program I want to start. It would just be awkward and would slow me down.
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
i map the right alt key to win key.
problem solved.
This is the correct answer.
Windows key is incredibly useful, but you can still get use out of it and keep the desired WKL aesthetics. ^-^
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Personally for me:
1. Don't use winkey at all
2. Aesthetics
3. Interferes with gaming
And on that note, I prefer to completely remove keys I never plan on using, less clutter = more better for me :)
However, I DO plan on mapping my right alt to windows
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
Oh, wanted to ask - what does OG mean? I know its for retro cherry caps, but what does it mean?
I have a set that I assume is old from some old keyboard, cherry profile white on beige ABS, plus someone who I bought it from added some moogle kit (is this how its called?) as mods feel different a bit and are not that thick as alphas...
OG = Original. It's just another way of referencing original Cherry keysets (either PBT or ABS), all of which are WKL.
Technically, OG means "original gangster". In gang culture, it refers to people who have been in the gang since it was formed and have somehow survived to the present day. I have no idea wtf it's used in reference to keycaps though.
im well aware of what og means in """gang culture""", and i literally explained what it means in reference to keycaps.
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Aesthetics and compatibility with OG keysets
Oh, wanted to ask - what does OG mean? I know its for retro cherry caps, but what does it mean?
I have a set that I assume is old from some old keyboard, cherry profile white on beige ABS, plus someone who I bought it from added some moogle kit (is this how its called?) as mods feel different a bit and are not that thick as alphas...
OG = Original. It's just another way of referencing original Cherry keysets (either PBT or ABS), all of which are WKL.
Technically, OG means "original gangster". In gang culture, it refers to people who have been in the gang since it was formed and have somehow survived to the present day. I have no idea wtf it's used in reference to keycaps though.
im well aware of what og means in """gang culture""", and i literally explained what it means in reference to keycaps.
Not sure why you seem upset/defensive. I was simply adding further explanation for Phinix since he seemed curious, and it doesn't fully make sense how OG means original without the context.
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Windows isnt my dad. I don't want to push windows buttons.
HHKB FOR LYFE!!!!!!!!!
I'm a huge HHKB fan, but I can totally relate to the OP, when I do use my laptop (the only keyboard with a Win key) I constantly make use of Win+D and Win+L. Though for show desktop I equally use three finger trackpad gesture.
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I don't have any beef with the Windows key, personally. It's useful, and I don't care about how it looks either way.
As for the gaming thing, well, the majority of my keyboards have a Windows Lock function for that, and the ones that don't either don't have a Windows key or aren't among my first choices for gaming anyway.
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That's cool, thanks guys for explaining me wha does OG mean. Now its all clear.
I was looking at that RAMA Works U80-A and its bottom row.
It has 7u spacebar and 1.5U mods, but also 1u in the middle. I could map it to be windows, problem would be solved on this particular keyboard.
However, other WKL would be hard for me to get used to.
Thank you all for your input, it all shows what is behind that WKL phenomenon.
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It's a Vanity Decision.
Many modern humans are not given much time / opportunity to advance themselves creatively, So they just have to pick something off the shelf, buy it, and attach a personal belief behind the decision so they can feel Special, -- In a world that utilizes everyone like machines, and attempts to make everyone feel ****ty so they'd Stay-In-Line --..
Gaining some relief through shopping is an exercise of personal power and free will. This is what little Relief is available to the laymen..
Rejoice WKL Proletariat Race..
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It's a Vanity Decision.
Many modern humans are not given much time / opportunity to advance themselves creatively, So they just have to pick something off the shelf, buy it, and attach a personal belief behind the decision so they can feel Special, -- In a world that utilizes everyone like machines, and attempts to make everyone feel ****ty so they'd Stay-In-Line --..
Gaining some relief through shopping is an exercise of personal power and free will. This is what little Relief is available to the laymen..
Rejoice WKL Proletariat Race..
AMEN! ;D
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Personally for me:
1. Don't use winkey at all
2. Aesthetics
3. Interferes with gaming
And on that note, I prefer to completely remove keys I never plan on using, less clutter = more better for me :)
However, I DO plan on mapping my right alt to windows
winkey should be remapped to ctrl
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Well, Windows has a graphical user interface designed to be used with a mouse. So either I enter text via the keyboard or I navigate Windows with the mouse. Why for example should I press the Windows key to open the start menu - instead of clicking the Windows icon, when I then use the mouse anyway to select the program I want to start. It would just be awkward and would slow me down.
Because we're keyboard enthusiasts who prefer using the keyboard over a mouse? Its so much quicker to hit one key to bring up a menu than moving your hand to the mouse, no? Plus all the useful shortcuts that any decent power user would abuse the hell out of: go to desktop, open file sytem, minimize/maximize window, resize window to left/right 50%, cycle tabs, and more. I agree not having it makes feeling out the ctrl and alt keys quicker, but c'mon, let's not pretend it's not a useful key.
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BTW. The Menu key was introduced together with the Windows key, and it is pretty useless. There are now many keyboards with Windows keys that don't have Menu.
I just think it was underutilised. I haven't used windows in a long time, but I used to use that key. It brought up the context menu, without which you'd have to grab a mouse and right click to get at. I'd tab around a lot and use it when I needed something from the context menu. If you're someone who _really_ doesn't like using the mouse, it was useful.
Say what you want about Microsoft, but they did (do?) accessibility really well. In Mac there are some menus I cannot get to without a mouse. I remember that hardly ever happened in windows.
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winkey should be remapped to ctrl
Heathens that don't remap Caps Lock to Control.. :p
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Here's a reason why I don't like WKL too much. I'm a Mac user! Although on a few of my boards I do map Caps Lock to Control and don't have a WK, for bigger boards, like TKL size, it feels much more familiar for me to have a CMD key.
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
The Windows key is useful now... 20+ years after it was introduced by Microsoft, and forced on OEMs and users to satisfy MICROSOFT's needs, not the users' needs.
Microsoft, at the time heavily into the "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy (which later turned out to be a key factor in Microsoft being declared guilty of monopoly abuse), did exactly that to the Enhanced layout standard, by placing THREE keys on the keyboard that no one wanted and screwing the layout for no good use, with the added insult of calling what should have been called the "GUI" or "Super" key... after their flagship product, as if at the time no other windowed environments existed. This makes the keys... stained in their origin, and this is why everyone and the dog will use alternate legends or icons (the "Code" legend, a diamond, a drawing of Tux the penguin, a buckling spring icon...), with the fact that you have to pay MS a license for using the Windows logo a secondary one.
The location for the Windows keys was ill-chosen (those spots between Ctrl and Alt on either side were left unused for a reason), becoming an annoyance if hit when that wasn't wanted. The Windows' keys obtrusive behaviour was so notorious, gamer keyboards had to pioneer the "Windows key lock" so they could be deactivated at will. More so, the location of the Menu key (which screamed of "whim" when introduced) messed up the bottom row, forcing the movement of the right Alt key leftward, something that's specially grating for people who use that key as AltGr. More so, the amount of things you could actually DO with the Windows keys (not to say anything of the Menu key) back when they first came out was rather limited, making the whole thing even more irritating.
It did not help the fact that the propaganda machine talked about "older keyboards" being obsolete and getting new units being not only "desirable" but inevitable, infuriating our pockets. The replacement of XT keyboards for AT models was justified as a massive improvement (which it was), and those being phased out in favor of Enhanced layout keyboards was justified in the same manner (which it also was)... but replacing the then-extant keyboards for "Windows keyboards" was simply a transparent attempt by MS to force themselves into a monopoly on the hardware market.
(by the way, this was at the same time as "Windows printers", "Windows modems", and other unholy hardware like that was being pushed in... and thank God THOSE abominations did not last)
The above said, sure, some features accessed with the Windows key(s) are useful, but some look like they were added to make the Windows key seem more meaningful. And in one particular case, you can now select a screenshot with Win-Shift-S, which seems pretty cool... until you notice you can't use Alt-PrtSc anymore to that effect (and how long until MS tweaks the standard again and removes the core functionality of PrtSc under Windows just to force the usage of the Win key?).
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I never use them, even if they're on a board I'm using. I think there's a lot of additional keys that could go in their place, or you could use the space to make a board more aesthetically interesting.
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I like the blockers because I hit "alt" A LOT switching between languages while typing.
Left shift + left Alt to switch keyboards; left shift + right Alt to switch text output between Hangul and English.
For people that use Windows key a bunch, it's been updated to Winkey + spacebar, but this is not in intuitive, and the blocker is a good tactile reference distinguishing between control and alt
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Losing one more key for aesthetics is not that worth maybe only reason i would use a blocker so i can use OG double shot cherry key caps other then that i don't see much of a advantage.
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depletedvespene is right.
The Windows key was shoehorned onto the IBM-style keyboard in yet another clumsy attempt to force Microsoft monopoly on everyone.
Gamers were bothered by it, particularly at the outset, because it really did noticeably interfere with gaming, pulling you out-of-focus on the game, and accidentally launching applications.
Since we can now remap keys how we want, there's a lot of goodness to be gained by using the WKL layout.
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I use the Winkey all the time at work when using tiling, but otherwise I never do. That said, my next board will be winkeyless and I will remap to either right Alt or right Ctrl. I mean, those keys never get used anyways...
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Looks like Microsoft is getting ready to add further 'enhancements' to the keyboard:
Microsoft considering a dedicated Office key for keyboards
https://www.osnews.com/story/130160/microsoft-considering-a-dedicated-office-key-for-keyboards/
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Looks like Microsoft is getting ready to add further 'enhancements' to the keyboard:
Microsoft considering a dedicated Office key for keyboards
https://www.osnews.com/story/130160/microsoft-considering-a-dedicated-office-key-for-keyboards/
GFL. Where's my dedicated PITCHFORK key?
And for the benefit of the younger readers, let me mention that THIS KIND OF APPLICATION-DEPENDENT FUNCTIONALITY WAS WHAT THE F ROW WAS CREATED FOR.
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I barely, if ever, used the Win key under Windows.
Now I used a Mac and that key is mapped to Opt (option). I use it quite regularly.
Sometimes that makes it difficult to use a WKL keyboard, such as an SSK, on a Mac.
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Well, Windows has a graphical user interface designed to be used with a mouse. So either I enter text via the keyboard or I navigate Windows with the mouse. Why for example should I press the Windows key to open the start menu - instead of clicking the Windows icon, when I then use the mouse anyway to select the program I want to start. It would just be awkward and would slow me down.
And why would you screw around with the mouse when you can just hit the Win key, type half a word, hit enter, and the application opens? Most things are much quicker and easier if done primarily with the keyboard rather than the mouse, as was initially intended.
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I also have this question for 60% users. There are a lot of things that you can do with the function keys, especially on a browser. Rename a file (not on the browser), go to the address bar, search for a specific text, show the console, debug, etc. But ultimately, it all boils down to the users and how they use their peripherals.
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Well, Windows has a graphical user interface designed to be used with a mouse. So either I enter text via the keyboard or I navigate Windows with the mouse. Why for example should I press the Windows key to open the start menu - instead of clicking the Windows icon, when I then use the mouse anyway to select the program I want to start. It would just be awkward and would slow me down.
And why would you screw around with the mouse when you can just hit the Win key, type half a word, hit enter, and the application opens? Most things are much quicker and easier if done primarily with the keyboard rather than the mouse, as was initially intended.
From my perspective, there's only about a dozen apps I used under Windows on a regular basis. Most of those had their icon pinned to the task bar, and a couple of others were in the "most recently used" list on the start menu.
Of course recently Windows don't have a start menu, just an advertising panel.
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I also have this question for 60% users. There are a lot of things that you can do with the function keys, especially on a browser. Rename a file (not on the browser), go to the address bar, search for a specific text, show the console, debug, etc. But ultimately, it all boils down to the users and how they use their peripherals.
They usually access those keys on a layer.
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Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
1. Yes. I use primarily Linux
2. I have long had a hate for Microsoft, and I don't want any stupid Windows logo on my keyboard, even if I (have to) use Windows occasionally.
You know I mainly use Linux too and I actually find the 'Windows' key much more useful in Linux than it is under Windows. There are a whole lot of useful shortcuts assigned to it under modern Linux desktop environments.
Also if you're using a 3rd party keycap set it doesn't need to have a Windows logo...
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I also have this question for 60% users. There are a lot of things that you can do with the function keys, especially on a browser. Rename a file (not on the browser), go to the address bar, search for a specific text, show the console, debug, etc. But ultimately, it all boils down to the users and how they use their peripherals.
They usually access those keys on a layer.
Yes, I know that. What I am trying to say is it's all about preferences and efficiency is different for each person.
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I never use my windows key, I can't even think of the last time I thought that I needed it.
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Do you guys not use windows startmenu ? I use it all the time.
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Do you guys not use windows startmenu ? I use it all the time.
I use it, but I use my mouse to reach it. Sounds inconvenient, but it's kind of like a habit now so I don't notice.
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..why so many people prefer WKL?
Is it because they don't use those keyboards with Windows?
There are so many Win key combinations you use in Windows, these are very useful in daily use.
Am I missing something?
Some will say that they grew up on WKL keyboards - yes, me too, but nowadays we use Windows 8 and above, so win key is pretty much used many times...
I use it, but I'd go WKL and just make right alt the winkey. It's a useful key, but there's too function keys and WKL looks nice enough to warrant removing them.
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It's a Vanity Decision.
Many modern humans are not given much time / opportunity to advance themselves creatively, So they just have to pick something off the shelf, buy it, and attach a personal belief behind the decision so they can feel Special, -- In a world that utilizes everyone like machines, and attempts to make everyone feel ****ty so they'd Stay-In-Line --..
Gaining some relief through shopping is an exercise of personal power and free will. This is what little Relief is available to the laymen..
Rejoice WKL Proletariat Race..
Indeed it is! From my point of view:
1) WKL aesthetics??? It looks like missing teeth, empty place what should been filled with something.
2) Interference with gaming? Turn this key off.
3) Don't need it anyway? I use Win-dos and Linux and rely heavily on the SUPER/WIN key for window operations and anyway, this can be used as a free modifier key.
So as far as I'm concerned this is just a dumb trend.
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I think most people don't know about winkey combination like win+e, win+r, that pretty nice combination especially for a coder like me, so i never use WKL, but WKL look nice ...