geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: karljs on Thu, 27 May 2010, 18:35:38
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Hi all,
Several months ago when I stumbled on this site looking for keyboard advice I decided to pick up an HHKB Pro 2. I've used it daily as a perfectly tailored match for my Emacs coding exploits, but now I'm hitting a speed bump of sorts.
For reasons beyond my control I've been doing a lot of work in Visual Studio on the Windows side of the tracks and, for that purpose, the HHKB2 is little more than a burden. The feel of the keys is still great but Visual Studio seems to rely on navigation using arrows and PGUP/DN/HOME/END. I've tried the Emacs-like keybinding and find them to be terrible with most of the functionality I actually WANT to be missing. Try as I might, several weeks into it, I can't get good at moving around with FN combinations and the mouse just frustrates me.
Has anybody had success coding with the HHKB line outside of Vim and Emacs?
Maybe it's just time to spring for a tenkeyless Filco, or something...?
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Someone is selling their HHKB in the marketplace for the same reasons that you discuss here... Big bulky IDEs were not really what the designer of the HHKB layout had in mind.
I'd sell yours and get a Realforce 87U. They are expensive, but you should be able to recuperate a lot of the price by selling the HHKB.
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I actually find the arrow key placement on the HHKB ideal for general purpose stuff, but obviously YMMV.
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Well, I'm not quite prepared to sell the HHKB as I still absolutely love it for just about everything outside of new-fangled IDEs.
I'll probably be ordering either a Filco or Realforce anyway and continuing to practice with the layout until that arrives. Nobody ever died ordering an extra keyboard or two, right? *wink*
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At work I use Visual Studio with ViEmu (http://www.viemu.com/) and it's very useful if you like the vi editor. It works great with the HHKB.
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Maybe I'll give viemu a look. The price is a bit steep to emulate free software :shocked: but it does appear to have a free trial. Thanks for that link.
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Visual Studio seems to rely on navigation using arrows and PGUP/DN/HOME/END.
Why don't you just get a numpad on the side? while it would just be one more thing to carry around it would give you quick access to what you are saying you are missing.
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Hi all,
Several months ago when I stumbled on this site looking for keyboard advice I decided to pick up an HHKB Pro 2. I've used it daily as a perfectly tailored match for my Emacs coding exploits, but now I'm hitting a speed bump of sorts.
For reasons beyond my control I've been doing a lot of work in Visual Studio on the Windows side of the tracks and, for that purpose, the HHKB2 is little more than a burden. The feel of the keys is still great but Visual Studio seems to rely on navigation using arrows and PGUP/DN/HOME/END. I've tried the Emacs-like keybinding and find them to be terrible with most of the functionality I actually WANT to be missing. Try as I might, several weeks into it, I can't get good at moving around with FN combinations and the mouse just frustrates me.
Has anybody had success coding with the HHKB line outside of Vim and Emacs?
Maybe it's just time to spring for a tenkeyless Filco, or something...?
I'am do alot of coding in eclipse, and if really don't use at all vim/emacs.
can't say that first months of using HHKB was the best months in my life )) if really it was absolute horror because I did lot of mistakes. you want hit END but do PAGE DOWN or instead of HOME you hit PAGE UP and vice versa, few more annoying things it's when you hit BRK instead of UP - what freeze keyboard until you don't hit it second time.
first few months it was absolute horror. right now (4-5 months later I think) I do much less misakes, but they are still exist. So IMHO HHKB it's some kind of compromise where you get some pros, and in the same time some CONS
PROS
1. faster code autocomplete - all arrow keys I all time doing with my right pinky. so it's pretty fast, because you don't have to move your hand.
2. the same is with the END/HOME/PAGE UP/DOWN - it's much faster with HHKB
3. easy access ESC and F-keys, until you don't need some complicated combos like ALT+CNTR+F or ALT+SHIFT+F - they will give you some problems first times, but later are also OK
4. the best ever location for BACK SPACE and maybe CONTROL - why maybe? some times I don't want it there )
5. mouse location, I found that with HHKB I began to work more with MOUSE. so earlies to find position in text - I used more keyboard, right now for me easier to scroll to some position with mouse.
CONS
1. you think how to do it - if you do some complex shortcut key combo (even some simple things with END/home e.t.c.), on classic layout you don't have to think how to make it - your fingers just do it, so 100% muscule memory - I can't say the same about HHKB, so as result you have more concentration on keyabord and do more mistakes when you are tired. it's the main cons for me on this keyboard.
2. mistakes. mistakes. mistakes ) mostly with control keys what are FN+ SOmething - I do them months later (not lot but still) and dunno if they will be
dissapear in future.
3. after this keyboard, I do mistakes on my notebooks when use their keyboards or at any other classic layout keyboard. most mistakes are backspace/enter control/capslock - some times arrow keys. oh and alt instead of FN for sure.
4. hard to use for text editing with lot of use end/home/pagedown when you need to change lot of strings e.g. just to replace few chars in the end of each of 30-40 strings )) before I did it with keyboard right now when possible I try to do it with REGEX replacer or somethig )
5. sometimes I just want to relax and scroll my code with arrow kyes with one finger, while keeping in another hand cup of tea ;) but with this keyboard it's not possible!!!
so afterall if I happy with this keyboard? I think yes, for me most CONS are not so important as PROS. yes mistakes are annoyin but more I have experience - less mistakes I have. I tried several times to use back some full layout keyboard and....oh no no, it's already for sure not for me. what about tenkeyless? seems I will try it, with Cherry Brown. at first, I like topres, but I just don't have fun from "key" for me it's really some rubber dome. yes it's not mushy and smooth, but looks not tactile at all. anyway, if I found geekhack forum I have to try cherry switches at least one time in my life ))) just to know, what about all these guys here are buzzing :)
P.S.:
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Thanks for the additional thoughts and advice. Getting a numpad is a good idea -- I'll have to start reading more about them.