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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: sypl on Fri, 02 August 2019, 18:22:03
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According to this report, Apple is ditching their butterfly switch and moving back so some sort of scissor mechanism: https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/04/kuo-new-keyboard-macbook-air-pro/
Apple is apparently set to ditch the butterfly mechanism used in MacBooks since 2015, which has been the root of reliability issues and its low-travel design has also not been popular with many Mac users.
In a report published today, Ming-Chi Kuo says that Apple will roll out a new keyboard design based on scissor switches, offering durability and longer key travel, starting with the 2019 MacBook Air. The MacBook Pro is also getting the new scissor switch keyboard, but not until 2020.
The new scissor switch keyboard is a whole new design than anything previously seen in a MacBook, purportedly featuring glass fiber to reinforce the keys. Apple fans who have bemoaned the butterfly keyboard should be optimistic about a return to scissor switches.
Kuo says that Apple’s butterfly design was expensive to manufacture due to low yields. The new keyboard is still expected to cost more than an average laptop keyboard, but it should be cheaper than the butterfly components.
Apple has introduced four generations of butterfly keyboards in as many years, attempting to address user complaints about stuck keys, repeated key inputs, and even the loud clackiness of typing when striking each keycap.
It most recently debuted what it described as a third-generation butterfly keyboard ‘with new materials’ in the 2019 MacBook Pro. The jury is still out as to whether that laptop suffers from the same key reliability problems but even if the issue is resolved, the butterfly keyboard is not universally popular. A scissor-switch keyboard with more travel will be greatly welcomed.
Keyboard ergonomics and feel is dependent on many factors, but it is a promising sign that Apple is reverting to the same key switch mechanism used in every MacBook before 2015, which was widely praised.
It may be slightly disappointing to hear that the MacBook Pro is not getting the new keyboard until next year, with many people hoping the rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro would debut in the fall featuring a new keyboard.
The 2019 MacBook Air update had previously been referred to as a spec bump refresh; today’s Kuo report suggests the new model will be a more meaningful evolution of that product than previously expected.
The butterfly switches get a lot of hate, and I'm sure many people here will be celebrating, but the times I've tried them I've found them to be really good! I don't have a laptop with these keys, but every time I've tried them on other people's laptops I've found them really easy to use and they increase my speed and accuracy. And I think it's easy to see why. Despite their reliability problems, they have some things I really like:
- Very stable keys. You can hit any part of the key and it will activate just as if you'd hit it in the middle. I've not felt any other laptop or low travel key that does that. I'm typing on an older macbook with scissors now and that is most definitely not the case. Touch the corners and they wobble like crazy. After trying a butterfly I find these keys now quite underwhelming. I compare it to typing on a Kailh box mount switch as opposed to a Cherry switch. After trying the box it's hard to go back to wibbly-wobbly Cherry-type switches.
- Good, soft well contour on the keycaps, subtle enough that you can feel out key centers on what are seemingly flat keys.
- Bigger keys. The board has reduced spacing between each key. Given the aforementioned stability, this just gives your fingers a bigger target, which can only be a good thing.
- Ultra low travel keys. I don't know where the fetish for high travel comes from. If you want to type fast, I'm not sure how moving your fingers more helps in that regard.
- Very tactile. Maybe a bit too much? There's a very definite snap, and a predictable one too, which is all I need in tactility.
Combine it all together and I liken it to typing on a mechanical touchscreen keyboard, if you can imagine such a thing.
Ironically it looks like I may end up buying a laptop I don't really need to get hold of a keyboard I really like before it goes out of stock.
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Fricking finally !
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUTOcZQW4AEc9KW.jpg)
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Ultra low travel keys. I don't know where the fetish for high travel comes from. If you want to type fast, I'm not sure how moving your fingers more helps in that regard.
The low travel is probably the worst thing about them in my opinion. It's worse than typing on a touchscreen IMO, my hands start to hurt after a minute.
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(https://i.imgur.com/OQmX7p2.gif)
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- Bigger keys. The board has reduced spacing between each key. Given the aforementioned stability, this just gives your fingers a bigger target, which can only be a good thing.
Not necessarily. A larger key surface at the expense of spacing makes it easier to hit two keys by mistake.
- Ultra low travel keys. I don't know where the fetish for high travel comes from. If you want to type fast, I'm not sure how moving your fingers more helps in that regard.
It is not the high actuation distance that is desirable but the property that you would avoid strain on your fingers from bottoming out hard. (A lot of the younger mech enthusiasts that use light linear undampened switches missed that part though...)
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I have them in a MBP 2016. They are the worst laptop switches I've used.
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I have a 2015 MB 12” with the first revision ones and they’re complete garbage, they get stuck constantly and sometimes the tactile feedback just decides not to work. Im happy to hear they’re moving on from this design, and cautiously optimistic that post-Jony Ive Apple will see some other positive hardware changes coming up as well.
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The new one feels much better imo. I had the 2015 mbp, worst part was the keyboard!
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Tried the new ones in the store today. Keys are still big and spacing the same, and travel is increased, but... key wobble is back! I hope you're all happy with yourselves! Not as bad as the old old keyboard, but still somewhat noticeable.
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Ultra low travel keys. I don't know where the fetish for high travel comes from. If you want to type fast, I'm not sure how moving your fingers more helps in that regard.
The low travel is probably the worst thing about them in my opinion. It's worse than typing on a touchscreen IMO, my hands start to hurt after a minute.
agreed