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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 17:55:28

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 17:55:28

Hello I am new to the board and newly introduced to mechanical keyboards.

Anyways I am looking for a board thats somewhat quiet, thats why I am going with the topre switches ( i have two babies and a moody wife, who likes her tv and sleeping , if I disturb her or wake a sleeping baby I will get my arse kicked  jk)

I know the HHBK has a funky layout designed for unix coders... But man I love the way it looks, it just looks small, compact and has everything that I basically need and use.  The o-nly downfall i can see is the arrow keys. I seldomly use them, but I think I may have a hard time not using them. I guess thats what a mouse is for haha.

anyways my main question is this.
since both of these boards are pricey. I want the board that is the most durable, has the best build quality, you know what I mean? I want something that I can justify paying 250 bucks for.... out of the two, which feels better, has a higher qaulity sound, higher quality build. Which one wouild last me 10 years? because I know if I get this, this will be basically the very last keyboard I will own in my life.

I would be opting for the 55G realforce model, i dont think I would like the different key weights of the original realforce.

Can anyone who has used both help me?  I cant really tell by youtube videos. I have crappy speakers, and I dont think youtube videos do any keyboard justice.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 20:11:49

thank you very much for the information....

So freaking hard to choose.. well I didnt relize there were function buttons for the arrow keys..... I love the look of the HHBK prolly 100 times more than the realforce...

But you are saying the realforce is built tougher and will last alot longer because its metal plate?

that makes things so much harder to choose....

what about typing quality, feel and sound?? are they about equal??? how many key strokes are each of these boards good for?? I see other switch companies saying they are good for 50 million etc..... are topres the same , less or more?

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 20:17:46

hahah and what do you mean by beard????  guys with beards get Realforces? and ladies get HHBKs ??? im guessing according to your picture of the asian women and the HHBK

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: fuzzybaffy on Wed, 02 June 2010, 20:41:07

Go for the Realforce man. It seems like you're looking for a reason to buy the HHKB, when the Realforce fulfills your needs.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: iMav on Wed, 02 June 2010, 20:45:07

You want a HHKB.  Follow your heart!

They are built well and will absolutely last.  Plus, you get the best layout on the planet.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kriminal on Wed, 02 June 2010, 21:21:30

haha geekhackers not helping at all.. i say go for the realforce :)
metal plate ftw...
but then again if you get the HHKB its totally different to your typical layout... :)

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maetl on Wed, 02 June 2010, 21:57:36

I prefer the Realforce. I do like some aspects of the HHKB layout, but I have found that I am able to emulate all but the form factor to my satisfaction on my Realforce. The Realforce, as mentioned, also has superior build quality, for whatever that is worth. Both are built superbly, but one still better than the other. But the real clincher for me was the excellent ergonomic actuation force distribution thing. Rather than feeling odd, as one might expect, I find that it feels very natural and has made other keyboards feel odd in comparison. I am going to find it hard spending a considerable sum on a keyboard without that feature again.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Xede on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:03:29

I ended up getting both just to see the difference and it turns out they are both great, surprise.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:14:05

hahhha you guys are not making this easy.......

I want the HHBK because of its slick look....

I want the realforce for its more standard keyboard (basically just the arrow keys which i rarely use, I only use it if my mouse is to far away from me, so i basically only use it out of lazyness)

but the kicker is the metal plate...... will this make it last years longer you think??? plastic vs metal,, obviously metal is stronger,, but is there any other benifits to having this???? besides durability?? I personally think it really wouldnt make a huge difference unless you are throwing your entire body weight into every key stroke lol.... or if you have an abusive wife who just found out you spent 250 bucks on a key board, and tried to smash you over the head with it or throw it hahaha.. other than that, I dont really see a huge need for metal lol....


is there any other differences in ergonomics,,, feel or sound?? sounds like the keyboardsare basically the same,,,, one looks cooler vs metal plate....  the layout of each do not bother me one bit... come to think of it,,, i dont really use the arrow keys at all... i was paying attention today to see how much i actually use them,,, its rare... i only use it when im leaning back on a chair and my mouse is not in reach... which is basically just me being super lazy lol.... so really no i dont use the arrow keys... im more of a mouse man 98% of the time.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:15:46

Yeah realfoce on ebay is used.. sorry im a huge germ kinda guy.... I hate ppl even touching my stuff.. even my own family... if they use my keyboard they use the bottle of hand sanitizer sitting right next to it.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:29:22

Quote from: kwantz;188983

Hello I am new to the board and newly introduced to mechanical keyboards.

Anyways I am looking for a board thats somewhat quiet, thats why I am going with the topre switches ( i have two babies and a moody wife, who likes her tv and sleeping , if I disturb her or wake a sleeping baby I will get my arse kicked  jk)

I know the HHBK has a funky layout designed for unix coders... But man I love the way it looks, it just looks small, compact and has everything that I basically need and use.  The o-nly downfall i can see is the arrow keys. I seldomly use them, but I think I may have a hard time not using them. I guess thats what a mouse is for haha.

anyways my main question is this.
since both of these boards are pricey. I want the board that is the most durable, has the best build quality, you know what I mean? I want something that I can justify paying 250 bucks for.... out of the two, which feels better, has a higher qaulity sound, higher quality build. Which one wouild last me 10 years? because I know if I get this, this will be basically the very last keyboard I will own in my life.

I would be opting for the 55G realforce model, i dont think I would like the different key weights of the original realforce.

Can anyone who has used both help me?  I cant really tell by youtube videos. I have crappy speakers, and I dont think youtube videos do any keyboard justice.

The answer is...it depends.  I have both, but for completely different reasons.

The HHKB Pro 2 is my travel keyboard 'cause I hate the scissor switch keyboards on my Dell and HP laptops.  I am not a developer, I just wanted a compact, high quality keyboard  with full length key travel to use on the road.  It took a while to  get accustomed to the layout and lack of dedicated arrow keys on the HHKB. Because I enter a lot of numbers, I also have a Topre Realforce 23UB numeric keypad which I plug in to one of the USB ports on the HHKB.  I use the 23U for cursor control when NumLock is disengaged.

I use the Realforce 87U at my home office in the evenings.  My wife is actually very sweet and tolerant but could only take so much racket from the pounding on my 84-key PC AT Model F, one of the loudest keyboards ever made.  The 87U is pretty darn quiet; the most noticeable sound is the "thunk" of the space bar.  I am able to type heavily on my 87U without waking up my wife or 2 year old.  I have another 23UB numeric keypad paired with my 87U.

The build quality on both keyboards is exceptional.  The metal plate in the 87U doesn't necessarily make it superior to the HHKB, but it does change the feel of the key presses.  Both keyboards use Topre capacitive switches, but the variable weighting of the 87U translates into a velvety smooth typing experience for me.  The key presses on the HHKB feel slightly different because of the uniform 45g weighting and the HHKB is also a bit louder than the 87U.  The two USB 2.0 downstream ports on the HHKB are convenient - especially when traveling.  Current draw is limited to 100 mA, but that's sufficient to charge a laser mouse while using the numeric keypad.

My guess is the Topre Realforce 87U is probably better suited for your needs.  If you are planning on buying in the US, the variable weighted model is sold out at elitekeyboards.com, but the all 55g model is still available for the same price as the HHKB Pro 2.

Hope all that factual, unbiased info helps.  :)

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Arc'xer on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:36:52

Quote

Just got it!
There are big differences in the key feel compared to the HH.
I will go into detail later with a comparative review if I get the chance.
Wish the sun would come out for some photos.

The weighted keys are subtle but I can notice it for sure. I think it is a very good idea.
The 55 in the escape feels slightly heavier than a cherry black and I would not like to have that weight over the whole board. I think it could be quite tiring.

The metal plate gives the keys a more defined bottom out than the HH. Also the sound is a higher in tone as the metal reverberates slightly. Not as an audible ring but just in the overall sound of the keys.
I think the metal is also what is making even the 45g keys feel lighter than the HH.
There was someone after a very light board. I think the standard realforce would do the job.

The board is very heavy compared to the very light (and all plastic HH)
I think the overall construction seems better too.
The top and bottom half do not match perfectly at the join on the HH but on the realforce they do.
I am very happy with it and look forward to using it extensively over the next few days.

Fingers crossed for sun so I dont have to set up a load of lamps! (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=84423&postcount=20)

This is from a post I found on the differences of the metal/plastic plating; it's also a HHKB vs Realforce.

Edit: Wanted to add if you haven't seen the wiki it has a few threads on it. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre+Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre).

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Wed, 02 June 2010, 22:38:44

Quote from: kwantz;189051

Yeah realfoce on ebay is used.. sorry im a huge germ kinda guy.... I hate ppl even touching my stuff.. even my own family... if they use my keyboard they use the bottle of hand sanitizer sitting right next to it.

Ah, a fellow germophobe.  I completely understand man.  I don't even like to shake people's hands!

All of the used keyboards in my collection had to undergo strict sterilization procedures with industrial grade antimicrobials.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 23:02:34

haha yeah so you can understand my point that used keyboard are not even a option for me.... jeepers. Looks like im going HHBK unless someone can prove to me, that the feel or sound of a realforce is better....

anyone here have an estimation on how long a HHBK would last over normal home use??? I dont work in a office or anything... Id say I use the computer daily 2-4 hours depending on how many hours im at work for.... but it will be for home use only... I need to know this type of info to tell the wife..... and by home use I mean  gameing, browsing, email... just regular home stuff.....

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 23:09:28

also waht i do like about the HHBK is i can get replacement keys, when or if they become ugly and shiney....   also... do Topre keys get worse or better after use? I think i read a review that after about 6 months of use the guys likes his keyboards sound better and feel??? whats up with that... or is that just one weird dudes preference??

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 23:27:08

lets just say i am not retarded, but I do have a rare form of autism. haha jk... just let me know which combination does what... and im good to go.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Wed, 02 June 2010, 23:28:38

a totally off topic question here,,, ripster are you a dude or a chick?  your name tells me your a dude,, but your avatar tells me your a women lol???

unless you are a dude, and you think your cartoon avatar is sexy?

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Wed, 02 June 2010, 23:48:36

Quote from: kwantz;189069

also waht i do like about the HHBK is i can get replacement keys, when or if they become ugly and shiney....   also... do Topre keys get worse or better after use? I think i read a review that after about 6 months of use the guys likes his keyboards sound better and feel??? whats up with that... or is that just one weird dudes preference??

The key caps on the HHKB and Realforce are basically the same.  I prefer the textured feel of the Topre key caps to just about any other key cap.

I wouldn't worry about keyboard wear or key cap wear.  Trust me, you will use your HHKB or Topre keyboard for many years.   The one thing you should take into consideration is the colour of the keys and lettering.  I bought a dark gray HHKB with black lettered keycaps on charcoal coloured keys.  Unfortunately, since I use my HHKB primarily in the dimly lit office of my club, I was frequently making errors and constantly looking at my fingers.  (compounded by the"unique" HHKB layout)

I replaced the dark gray key caps with an off-white/light grey replacement set from elitekeyboards which drastically improved the HHKB's utility.   My HHKB and I are attached at the hip.  I don't go on the road without it.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kishy on Thu, 03 June 2010, 00:58:17

Quote from: ripster;189046

Epic Beard Man uses a RealForce!  Amber Lamps uses a HHKB!

Show Image

(http://trickledown.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/amber-lamps.jpg)

Plus the RealForce is currently cheaper on Ebay. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250642819774#ht_4937wt_1137)

(http://epic-beard-man.info/images/amberlamps-calling.jpg)

No no no, the amberlamps uses a HHKB.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 03 June 2010, 03:55:42

There's not much difference in sound between the HHKB and Realforce - except ... my HHKB sounds louder/rattlier than my RF when I run my fingers along the keys. It's not a real world test, but some people's typing style might make this significant (faster typists?)

I hate using the word rattly in this context - both boards are extremely well engineered. They just aren't completely silent.

As for the HHKB layout, respect to anyone who toughs it out and learns it (and copes when switching between boards) but I'm going to give a shameless plug to my Eezeboard layout (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10202) that uses AutoHotkey. It works brilliantly on the HHKB. Leave the left Windows key active and use it as the layer shift control for my script.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Thu, 03 June 2010, 05:20:38

Quote from: Rajagra;189116

There's not much difference in sound between the HHKB and Realforce - except ... my HHKB sounds louder/rattlier than my RF when I run my fingers along the keys. It's not a real world test, but some people's typing style might make this significant (faster typists?)

I hate using the word rattly in this context - both boards are extremely well engineered. They just aren't completely silent.

As for the HHKB layout, respect to anyone who toughs it out and learns it (and copes when switching between boards) but I'm going to give a shameless plug to my Eezeboard layout (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10202) that uses AutoHotkey. It works brilliantly on the HHKB. Leave the left Windows key active and use it as the layer shift control for my script.

Interesting mate.   I just may have a try at...

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 03 June 2010, 07:38:42

Quote from: lam47

I think the metal is also what is making even the 45g keys feel lighter than the HH.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels the difference between the Realforce and HHKB on the same-weighted keys.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: isp on Thu, 03 June 2010, 15:46:22

Quote from: Rajagra;189116

I'm going to give a shameless plug to my Eezeboard layout (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:10202) that uses AutoHotkey. It works brilliantly on the HHKB. Leave the left Windows key active and use it as the layer shift control for my script.

Thanks for sharing that.  I just received this board yesterday and really like it.  Was looking for a way to bring FN to the left side :)  

:hail:

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 03 June 2010, 16:00:38

DIP switch 4 makes the left diamond key work as a second Fn key, so you might want to try that too.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: iMav on Thu, 03 June 2010, 17:55:18

Quote from: ripster;189344

Why DID they put FCN way over there?  Does anybody leave it on default?  Doesn't anybody miss the normal sized RSHIFT?

I always use the right fcn key with my right pinky.  Works great for me.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Thu, 03 June 2010, 19:08:16

hmmm so quality definatly goes to the realforce by the sounds of it...

feel are the same...

sound the HHBK sounds a little bit 'cheaper' because of the plastic ?

damn I still love the layout of the HHBK... I think im just going to go out on a limb and get it. I really wish they made these wireless.

I do find myself sitting or leaning back away from the desk, either on the couch or reclined on my chair.... when i have my lappy hooked up to my big screen and chatting.

Are there any rumours or anything of topre wirelss keyboards? if so that would be freakin amazing.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Arc'xer on Thu, 03 June 2010, 19:24:00

No one is saying anything about "cheapness" both are built with quality in mind, albeit even for a nearly $300 keyboard it is missing some things(like for example braided cable). But it's just a difference in material which to those who have the Topres point out that it does make a difference.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Brodie337 on Thu, 03 June 2010, 19:30:18

One thing that I'm picky about is having my keyboard centered to the monitor, and the mouse close as possible, and for that, the HHKB is king.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: kwantz on Thu, 03 June 2010, 20:24:03

HHBK here i come...  this thing better last me the rest of my life, because this is going to be my first and last keyboard lol....

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 03 June 2010, 20:27:48

Quote from: kwantz;189381

HHBK here i come...

HHBK...

(http://casualtygamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/kingandbrook.jpg)

HHKB....

(http://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/pdkb400w_full.jpg)

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Thu, 03 June 2010, 21:19:45

Quote from: webwit;189369

They are both Topres. Realforce boards are for people working in banks, HHKB is for geeks and UNIX beards who also like a mobile board. In banks, the Realforce must last the battering of many idiots. A mini keyboard must be portable and not be a brick. In feel, it shouldn't matter unless you pound those keys.

I thought you were under arrest in Santiago, Chile.

Just Kidding!

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: maxlugar on Thu, 03 June 2010, 21:22:01

Quote from: kwantz;189381

HHBK here i come...  this thing better last me the rest of my life, because this is going to be my first and last keyboard lol....

If you're on this forum, I seriously doubt the HHKB will be your last keyboard.

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 04 June 2010, 05:08:52

Quote from: ripster;189432

Pretty sure this is her.

Does she sing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826PTEuHKhE)?

Who is this Amber Lamps? Isn't "lamps" a euphemism for hooters?

Title: Realforce VS HHKB
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 04 June 2010, 06:56:21

I have always used "headlights," but it might be a regional thing.