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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ligo on Thu, 03 June 2010, 10:55:25

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Thu, 03 June 2010, 10:55:25

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Thu, 03 June 2010, 11:31:58

I guess from Korea..., a top notch one, bookmarked already.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 03 June 2010, 11:39:25

Very nice looking keyboard there.  Details on layers?  Arrow keys?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Thu, 03 June 2010, 11:43:00

I feel like that ESC key is some kind of Rorschach test.  Is it a flame, is it a squirrel, etc.  Board details, please.

Saw other thread - ok, it is a squirrel.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Thu, 03 June 2010, 11:53:16

For a moment I thought I was seeing a MiniGuru. Oh well, the more there are like this the better.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Thu, 03 June 2010, 13:18:05

it is the king kbd      lol

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: iMav on Thu, 03 June 2010, 13:51:23

Looks a lot like the miniguru minus the trackpoint.  

I wonder where the ~` key is?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 03 June 2010, 15:05:30

I miss my DIP switches...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Thu, 03 June 2010, 16:01:24

Nope, no one is allowed to call me a tease anymore! I atleast give a description to the photos =P

to webwit-
I think it's a bead foam booger

I dig the backspace key. I think it would be a riot if it was a rubber dome on membrane keyboard! It is miniguruesque, so that is a good thing. The miniguru is a great design, so anything similar deserves a second glance I think.

If only one key is going to have an marking or image though It would be nice it if was...
 Soggy starfish? Boogerman running to the left. Nope can't let the booger go (ewww that sounded bad).

=D

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: isp on Thu, 03 June 2010, 16:52:17

my interest is piqued...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Thu, 03 June 2010, 21:44:23

mostly made in Taiwan
see the red esc key
a symbol of KBtalking

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 03 June 2010, 22:28:37

Quote from: ripster;189228

KBTalking?

Yes, just as there's a Geekhack key, that key definitely has their squirrel (http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/) on it. However, not understanding Chinese, I was unable to navigate the site effectively enough to find the keyboard on it.

In fact, on this page (http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23274), you can see a blue KBTalking key.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Thu, 03 June 2010, 23:20:39

A squirrel is like a geekhacker
they will buy a lot of keyboard, store them but never sell like a quirrel storing pine cone.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Fri, 04 June 2010, 01:26:21

i am sure it is not a kbtalking kbd

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 04 June 2010, 02:02:24

Quote from: DryDry;189470

i am sure it is not a kbtalking kbd

But the photo of the keyboard might have been taken by a kbtalking member, who put his red kbtalking key on it.

No doubt it is made by some company somewhere, not by the discussion forum. I was looking around the kbtalking site to see if that keyboard might have been mentioned there before we heard about the keyboard here.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 04 June 2010, 04:04:15

Compare the angles of the bottom case with the miniguru:

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2014/04casebottompd4.jpg)

Uncomfortably close, don't you think?

Following the same design philosophy: good. Blatant copying: bad.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Laggy-gaga on Fri, 04 June 2010, 06:09:46

It would not be a KBtalking
the third generation KBtalking will be rubber.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: iMav on Fri, 04 June 2010, 07:05:55

Quote from: clickclack;189305

Nope, no one is allowed to call me a tease anymore!

You tease.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 04 June 2010, 09:53:11

Quote from: Rajagra;189484

Compare the angles of the bottom case with the miniguru:

Show Image

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2014/04casebottompd4.jpg)

Uncomfortably close, don't you think?

Following the same design philosophy: good. Blatant copying: bad.

I second you, copy is a short term gain but long term loss.
 
I am very interested in the marketing strategy of this keyboard.  Given the HHKB pro for the high end and HHKB lite for the mainstream of the current professional-small-form-factor keyboard market, how do they position this keyboard to differentiate it from the others?  Price may not be the major consideration for this segment where many customers are professionals or enthusiasts.

But I am sure the gentlemen behind should have already had enough considerations about these before the production one is finally released : )

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:28:35

Quote from: Rajagra;189484

Compare the angles of the bottom case with the miniguru:

Uncomfortably close, don't you think?

Following the same design philosophy: good. Blatant copying: bad.

I don't think so. By that logic any mini keyboard with an angled bottom case will be copying the mini-guru. And we haven't even seen all sides of the bottom of this new keyboard yet. An angled-sided bottom is rare on keyboards but pretty common for laptop computers. From a design standpoint it's an obvious way to do it.

Now assume miniguru has a design patent for its case. The mystery item is safe even if all bottom angles are the same, because its sides wrap around the keys while the mini guru's sides are invisible from the top.

I'm glad there's a new choice and I hope it will motivate lowpoly to finally make the miniguru into a real product :)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:44:30

I have no complaint about my HHKBs, but I will be very happy to see a cheaper version too.  On the other hand I have also been waiting for the ENG HHKB pro with arrow keys.  So, let's wait and see what will happen in this summer eventually : )

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 04 June 2010, 10:49:14

Quote from: phoenix;189539

I don't think so. By that logic any mini keyboard with an angled bottom case will be copying the mini-guru. And we haven't even seen all sides of the bottom of this new keyboard yet. An angled-sided bottom is rare on keyboards but pretty common for laptop computers. From a design standpoint it's an obvious way to do it.

Now assume miniguru has a design patent for its case. The mystery item is safe even if all bottom angles are the same, because its sides wrap around the keys while the mini guru's sides are invisible from the top.

I'm glad there's a new choice and I hope it will motivate lowpoly to finally make the miniguru into a real product :)

Hi Phoenix, glad to see you again, how is your Model F AT?  I really wish I could have one too, but I know it is not easy.

I think the gentelman (or called bad apple in English? pls forgive my poor English) behind really should go out and say something now...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 04 June 2010, 11:12:30

Quote from: pang0011;189548

Hi Phoenix, glad to see you again, how is your Model F AT?  I really wish I could have one too, but I know it is not easy.

I think the gentelman behind really should go out and say something now...

My Model F AT is sadly used very little because I use dedicated arrow keys too much. The local store I got mine from has a pile of XTs and Model Ms but no more ATs. The XT adapters might become available again soon if you have been watching the other threads. XTs still cost less than $20 on ebay.

Edit: Removed useless Taobao links.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 04 June 2010, 11:19:53

I'll try to look for the AT converter on Taobao and in HK's recycle shops, and keep you updated : )

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 04 June 2010, 16:37:41

Quote from: Rajagra;189484

Uncomfortably close, don't you think?

I didn't get that perception. It seemed to me from the provided photos that, instead, this keyboard was not angled on the bottom, but flat on the bottom, and it had a small angled area that was the same size all around.

So if you wanted it to be sloped, I suppose it has little feet on it like many ordinary keyboards. So, at least in that one respect, it didn't copy the Miniguru. Although it definitely does copy it in layout.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: painbird on Sat, 05 June 2010, 13:48:28

made in taiwan. i know

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: iMav on Sat, 05 June 2010, 15:32:12

Quote from: phoenix;189553

My Model F AT is sadly used very little because I use dedicated arrow keys too much.

I use arrow keys on my Model F all the time.  I have the numpad set to be exclusively for arrow keys and navigation.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Sat, 05 June 2010, 16:15:47

Quote from: iMav;189970

I use arrow keys on my Model F all the time.  I have the numpad set to be exclusively for arrow keys and navigation.

I once said something similar to Maxlugar and here I was, complaining about the lack of arrow keys...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Sat, 05 June 2010, 21:13:01

Quote from: phoenix;189553

My Model F AT is sadly used very little because I use dedicated arrow keys too much. The local store I got mine from has a pile of XTs and Model Ms but no more ATs. The XT adapters might become available again soon if you have been watching the other threads. XTs still cost less than $20 on ebay.

Edit: I just checked the Taobao seller who once had Model F ATs. He's not selling any now but there are some other interesting items.
$30 Model F XT for portable computer: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3782006509
$30 Black M13: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=2515089147
$35 Model M Mini (Two!): http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=3459409143

Edit2: I'd better stay on topic in this thread. Let's take this somewhere else.

If you find another AT please let me know, I can pay via PayPal plus a high tea in Peninsula hotel ; )

For the "Who vs hhkb" keyboard, there is a little chance that it will be unveiled in COMPUTEX Taipei if it is a Taiwan product, but maybe not.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Sun, 06 June 2010, 07:19:15

Your brilliant mind fits : )  But anyway, do remember to show the concierge your senior membership card or simply a Geekhack key next time, no tuxedo will be needed.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: aegrotatio on Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:16:37

Lame keyboard picture marketing troll.  When is this guy going to stop this nonsense?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Mon, 07 June 2010, 23:17:48

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ironman31 on Mon, 07 June 2010, 23:40:02

My curiosity is growing...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Mon, 07 June 2010, 23:53:34

That pcb looks like it will take either cherries or alps.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: rantenki on Tue, 08 June 2010, 00:20:33

Deffo cherries, from the positioning of the connections and locating pins.

Also, using mx1a-??NW, since there are locating pins, so not a metal plate bezel to locate the keys. No real opinion of if this is good or not.

What _is_ good is the diodes on each key. Good rollover characteristics are likely. Also, 3 position dip switch socket in the middle, on the back :D

OTOH, some of those diodes are tombstoning (http://www.npiengineer.com/tombstoning.html) like CRAZY. Manual solder job? Badly done. Hopefully a proper reflow solder will overcome this in production.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 00:32:30

The 2 unpopulated holes at the bottom of [strike]each switch[/strike] some switches do look consistent with Alps-type switches.

I wonder if this version of the PCB actually has a trace layer running to them?

This is actually a keyboard I'd be interested in, minimalistic or otherwise. Topre doesn't sound like my cup of tea, but fake clicky Cherries does...

If they're the same as what's in the Qtronix serial numpad, they're probably quite wobbly though.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: hoggy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 01:52:25

I love the marketing on this.  Here's this product, no product details, no company details.  We (a few of us, at least) are interested and we're left here hanging about how to get one.

None of this features and benefits list - stuff like - it's really quiet with really low key travel, and smaller keys (just kidding)!  Just teasing.  By the time we find out any details we'll have already talked ourselves into getting one.  I love it.  Who ever has leaked this has done the company a favour.  

That is if it is a leak at all...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: vhaarr on Tue, 08 June 2010, 04:55:40

Isn't that the same font Das uses on their keyboards?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 08 June 2010, 04:57:17

Yeah just like the others have said it certainly looks like the pcb is made for cherry switches are clones. I don't see the holes having anything to do with ALPS, they just look like they would be for diodes, especially since not all of them have em. I did however notice the LED holes for caps lock.

This would be a riot if it turns out to be another revision of Lowpoly's board, haahaa =P

I don't see any tombstoning in the pic btw, the joints look fine to me. I have seen tighter but this is in now way bad looking. Ahem... M10....
=P

As far as the marketing goes... well we will just have to see what it ends up being as I would imagine that could sway our opinions. It is just a tease though, almost on the verge of bragging for the sake of reaction. "Who" knows though, maybe without any descriptions it will start to seem shady and turn people off.

I think it looks cool, maybe it was made by a hobbyist with deep pockets =D

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 08 June 2010, 10:08:47

Ah. Now it's been revealed that one can get one with legends on the keys. And that the right-hand Windows key on the regular layout has been changed to a function key. This is an improvement, for people who use the Windows key often, from the Miniguru layout, which uses both Windows keys as function keys.

However, because the Windows key is a shift key, and hypothetically software might treat the left and right Windows keys differently (although that isn't much of a danger, since Microsoft itself is now making keyboards with one Windows key) it would actually be better to use the Windows Menu key as the Fn key, making the Windows Menu key reachable in a shifted fashion.

Given that we know from discussions with the MiniGuru's creator that the MiniGuru will be completely programmable, though, I'm still inclined to hold out for one of those.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 08 June 2010, 10:17:13

Quote from: vhaarr;190854

Isn't that the same font Das uses on their keyboards?

Good catch. Indeed the keys like Caps Lock are labelled in caps and small caps instead of upper and lower case - and the letters are squared. So at least for this prototype, they used keys from a Das Keyboard, I suspect (rather than the keyboard actually being a Das product)... with legends in Bank Gothic.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 11:27:48

I wouldn't compare it to my HHKB, it is peerless, but I would like to make a suggestion.  If DIP switch is really not being considered, offering PBT and 2-shot keycaps versions would be a simple but effective way to win the hearts of keyboard lovers.

I think you could have nothing to be proud of even at this point, what is the competitive advantage of this keyboard in its segment? Only price?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 11:33:44

Quote from: pang0011;190920

I think you could have nothing to be proud of even at this point, what is the competitive advantage of this keyboard in its segment? Only price?

A low price could win the heart of this keyboard lover.

Shipping, however, could kill the romance.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 08 June 2010, 11:50:24

Quote from: pang0011;190920

I wouldn't compare it to my HHKB, it is peerless

You got screwed, bro.

Fujitsu used Topre switches in mine.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 08 June 2010, 12:28:03

Quote from: itlnstln;190937

fujitsu used topre switches in mine.

lol!

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Tue, 08 June 2010, 14:20:59

Quote from: ripster;190906

I'm not that terribly happy with the FCN key location.

I believe there is only one non-retarded way to put a Fn key on a normal physical layout board where you need Fn to access arrow keys. You need it to be easily reachable in normal use, and you need it close to Ctrl, Shift and Alt so you can do combos easily with one hand. Since people are used to hitting arrow keys with the right hand, the modifiers should be pressed with the left hand. This leads to this:



Fn key easily reachable with the left thumb for simple things. IMO Fn becomes more important than Alt on boards where you need it to generate keys that are not physically present, so Alt gets bumped out of the prime location.

This is how I remap my layout to work with AutoHotkey scripts. It works great. The fact that many people hate the left Windows key makes losing that a bonus.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 08 June 2010, 15:20:58

All this discussion has given me further inspiration in the direction of coming up with my own idea of what an ideal keyboard should be!

(http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/sym1.gif)

Allowing one extra column of keys to the left of the keyboard as well as an extra row on the top, one has a tenkeyless keyboard that is easy to understand, with the Fn key only required for the actual function keys and for Pause/Break (which could be Fn-Esc)... providing the compactness of an HHKB-like keyboard "for the rest of us". I realize, though, that by going for my own ideal of an Enter key, instead of sticking with the standard arrangement, I may be asking too much of people.

I've made some small changes to the keyboard since its initial form. First, I shortened the Caps Lock and Shift keys, and then exchanged Caps Lock with the left Windows Shift key, to make the left Fn and Windows Shift keys more reachable, as well as dealing with the problem of hitting the Caps Lock key accidentally.

Then I decided to get rid of Scroll Lock, and bring in Pause/Break, since that key is more useful than the seldom used Scroll Lock. Since Fn-Num Lock is now F8 given its position, I suppose Fn-Esc or Fn-Pause would be used for Scroll Lock; it wouldn't be possible to copy the IBM tenkeyless precedent.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: rantenki on Tue, 08 June 2010, 23:41:01

Quote from: clickclack;190855

I don't see any tombstoning in the pic btw, the joints look fine to me. I have seen tighter but this is in now way bad looking. Ahem... M10....
=P

Tombstoning evidence follows ;)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10848&stc=1&d=1276058353)

That ain't just misalignment, those are standing right up. The one in the circle on the top left may not even be connected.

Nothing too hard to fix in production; just find a new board stuffer.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Wed, 09 June 2010, 02:32:55

Good eye buddy! I guess I should have looked more closely, indeed on closer inspection a number of them are a bit askew.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:21:22

how many people are intrested in it?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: elbowglue on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:42:53

Quote from: DryDry;191480

how many people are intrested in it?

There is no real information about it, I.E. price, how it functions, how it would be available.  So everyone is interested it in at it's current state of mis-information.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 21:48:58

I'm more interested in the mini guru

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Wed, 09 June 2010, 22:19:47

I'd be interested if the total cost to my door is under $40 CAD. Miniguru is a kick ass keyboard but it can't meet that price goal and likely will NEVER sell for that price used, so...

I'm interested anyway, but I wouldn't be a customer if the cost surpassed that. Unrealistic? Yeah...but in the unlikely case that's a feasible target, I'd be a potential buyer.

Also I'd need some assurance of quality, like another member getting one and doing a thorough review first, because when I get adventurous with less-documented products I always end up disappointed.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Wed, 09 June 2010, 22:26:54

I'm interested in more details, I like what I see so far for the most part.  I like the plentiful corner keys, that's where the HHKB went wrong and I've been waiting for one that had the extra modifiers.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ta497636 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 02:06:51

Quote from: ligo;190790

ligo,
I think the "Mini-B plug" is not a very good type. Replace it into "B-type plug"

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 03:12:59

Quote from: quadibloc;190997

Show Image

(http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/images/sym1.gif)

You don't do much programming in C, do you? :P

(in reference to the placement of the [{}] keys)

Also, why the need for the separate <> key?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Thu, 10 June 2010, 03:44:34

Quote from: kishy;191518

I'd be interested if the total cost to my door is under $40 CAD. Miniguru is a kick ass keyboard but it can't meet that price goal and likely will NEVER sell for that price used, so...

I'm interested anyway, but I wouldn't be a customer if the cost surpassed that. Unrealistic? Yeah...but in the unlikely case that's a feasible target, I'd be a potential buyer.

Also I'd need some assurance of quality, like another member getting one and doing a thorough review first, because when I get adventurous with less-documented products I always end up disappointed.

it is no doubt over 40 cad. i guess the price between $80 to $90

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Thu, 10 June 2010, 03:47:51

Quote from: ch_123;191570

You don't do much programming in C, do you? :P

(in reference to the placement of the [{}] keys)

Also, why the need for the separate <> key?

may be the esc&pause change the place to < > will be better

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Thu, 10 June 2010, 03:52:43

wow...
it is no metal plate in ?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Thu, 10 June 2010, 03:53:33

Quote from: ta497636;191560

ligo,
I think the "Mini-B plug" is not a very good type. Replace it into "B-type plug"

nice to see you guy~

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 June 2010, 07:44:17

I would be more interested if there were more info and if it had Cherry browns.  The lack of Cherry browns in the HHKB is what keeps it from being the perfect keyboard for me.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Thu, 10 June 2010, 08:28:25

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Brodie337 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 08:51:20

Ligo, i there any chance you could drop us some hints as to the pricing and availability, you've got out undivided attention!

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: hoggy on Thu, 10 June 2010, 08:54:25

Dibs on blue!  Nice.

Are you able to throw in a few diodes as well?  It's fairly easy for us to swap the springs ourselves, adding diodes is another matter...

Ligo, this is looking smart - really keen to buy one.  Keep it up.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 June 2010, 08:59:58

Looks good.  Throw some browns on it, and I'm in.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 10 June 2010, 09:06:25

HA!  Told you it looked like it could take ALPS.  Variety and options are always a good thing.  WELL DONE!!

You'd need PCB mount Cherries or ALPS though, plate mounted switches won't have the necessary big post on the bottom.

What is pricing?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Thu, 10 June 2010, 09:13:50

diodes

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Brodie337 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 09:14:55

OK.... This is officially annoying.... What is it????

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Hamburglar on Thu, 10 June 2010, 09:40:05

This keyboard will turn out to be just like cake. And we all know what the cake is...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 June 2010, 09:47:22

I like the legends on the back of the PCB.  Makes it easy to mod.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:03:59

Quote from: ta497636;191560

ligo,
I think the "Mini-B plug" is not a very good type. Replace it into "B-type plug"

I second that. ta497636 is more polite than I can be. "Mini-B" is bad. There seems to be enough room for a B plug. But I guess that would require a new mold for the case, which is unlikely at such a late stage.

Some more nitpicking:

The menu key is not as useful as a second windows key on the right. Even the latest two keyboards from Microsoft don't have the menu key. A menu key is also not immediately useful under Mac OS X. Perhaps you can make Fn+Right Windows the menu key. That way it is still easy to get to.

The PCB layout also rules out the possibility of a full hhkb layout clone, which doesn't sacrifice the ~` key. If you are going to stick to a strictly ANSI layout, you can make the board even smaller by cutting 1/2 key width on the right, so backspace will be 1.5 key width and \ will be a normal 1 key width. (The Apple keyboard does this.)

Since I'm used to the ANSI layout and the HHKB layout, I prefer to not have to use Fn or a layer key to access ~`. Even though it doesn't get used everyday, it is a very useful key for people typing LaTeX or SQL. (I can't have it all, I know.)

Keep the info coming, Ligo. This keyboard looks very promising.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:10:44

Quote from: phoenix;191667

Since I'm used to the ANSI layout and the HHKB layout, I prefer to not have to use Fn or a layer key to access ~`. Even though it doesn't get used everyday, it is a very useful key for people typing LaTeX or SQL. (I can't have it all, I know.)

Keep the info coming, Ligo. This keyboard looks very promising.

What do you use that key for in SQL?  I don't think I have ever used it, and I have been writing it for the past 6 years at work (it's pretty much all I do).  There might be a learning experience here.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:38:43

I like to use ~ to mean approximately (≈) and do so with far too much frequency. Really, I need a double ~, which there's an ALT + 1015 code for.  
I'm guessing the SQL buff has ` versus ' issues.  I think I've only used ' in my SQL.

Brown, black, blues, alps, nice - where's the red cherries! :mmph:

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:41:45

Quote from: itlnstln;191669

What do you use that key for in SQL?  I don't think I have ever used it, and I have been writing it for the past 6 years at work (it's pretty much all I do).  There might be a learning experience here.

I don't actually do any SQL work. I just remembered using ` from a course when I was an undergrad. I have no idea if it's good or bad.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/261455/using-backticks-around-field-names

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 10 June 2010, 16:03:19

Quote from: ch_123;191570

Also, why the need for the separate <> key?

That's really a second |\ key when used with the standard U.S. keyboard setting. I have it labelled in the way it would be on a 122-key terminal keyboard.

Its purpose is to allow the keyboard to be used with non-U.S. layouts that require the extra key found on an ISO layout - it is that extra key, as found between Z and the left-hand shift key on that layout.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: JBert on Thu, 10 June 2010, 16:28:42

Quote from: Brodie337;191623

OK.... This is officially annoying.... What is it????

A keyboard, of course.

Shouldn't we report the OP? It's obvious that he's a spam bot.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Thu, 10 June 2010, 16:44:10

Quote from: quadibloc;191755

That's really a second |\ key when used with the standard U.S. keyboard setting. I have it labelled in the way it would be on a 122-key terminal keyboard.

Its purpose is to allow the keyboard to be used with non-U.S. layouts that require the extra key found on an ISO layout - it is that extra key, as found between Z and the left-hand shift key on that layout.

the german layout uses exactly this additional key, here are the characters
<> and | located.. (USB usage code 0x64, for all that write their own firmware)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ta497636 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 23:34:46

Quote from: ironman31;191511

I'm more interested in the mini guru

I second it,

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ta497636 on Thu, 10 June 2010, 23:38:12

Quote from: DryDry;191577

nice to see you guy~

Hi, so please help me in here, I can not speak in English. Sad~~~~

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 11 June 2010, 00:09:01

Quote from: ta497636;191901

Hi, so please help me in here, I can not speak in English. Sad~~~~

Don't worry, Your English is better than mine at least ; )

The Geekhackers have been so kind and making a number of suggestions so far, will ligo give some feedback in response?  He chose to post the pictures here for preview, will he also consider sending an engineering sample to Geekhack for review?

From what I understand, marketing is also an art of image building : )

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Fri, 11 June 2010, 00:28:35

It would be interesting to have an engineering sample take a tour around a group of interested geekhackers, where each recipient pays the shipping from the previous person to themselves and has the keyboard for say 30 days before shipping to the next member.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ta497636 on Fri, 11 June 2010, 00:51:15

kishy, This is very good for US , the Keyboard fans, to precheck that any new keyboard's detail.
For me, I am making a plane like this in Taiwan soon.
Thank you!

BTW, can I type my word in Chinese here, and someone help me into English?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Fri, 11 June 2010, 01:20:04

this pic come from master ligo too~

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Fri, 11 June 2010, 01:28:30

Quote from: ripster;191942

Uh..... NO Arrow Keys even with FCN?

Show Image

(http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G4/15inchPowerBookG4/Art/050761031705_06.gif)

yes,fn or abandon

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Fri, 11 June 2010, 01:29:13

Dual embedded numpads in different forms is interesting, probably not terribly useful though.

The keyboard obviously has a 'second layer' thanks to the Fn key so it can't be terribly difficult to add cursor keys somewhere (Fn+ HJKL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_keys#HJKL_keys) vi-style would be acceptable I think?)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Fri, 11 June 2010, 01:31:36

Quote from: ta497636;191924

kishy, This is very good for US , the Keyboard fans, to precheck that any new keyboard's detail.
For me, I am making a plane like this in Taiwan soon.
Thank you!

BTW, can I type my word in Chinese here, and someone help may me into English?

ta497636
your written English is better than us~
geekhackers must  understand what you  said

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Fri, 11 June 2010, 01:41:37

I understand everything, but I'm Canadian. Don't expect so much from Americans...

(it goes both ways ripster!)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ricercar on Fri, 11 June 2010, 02:47:28

Quote from: kishy;191958

I'm Canadian. Don't expect so much from Americans.

Huh? What?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Nonmouse on Fri, 11 June 2010, 02:53:07

Quote from: ricercar;191977

Huh? What?

Eh?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 11 June 2010, 04:18:11

Quote from: DryDry;191574

it is no doubt over 40 cad. i guess the price between $80 to $90

I am thinking north or $100 USD for sure.

Quote from: DryDry;191576

wow...
it is no metal plate in ?

That's not necessarily a bad thing. Casing design plays a big part too.

Quote from: DryDry;191480

how many people are intrested in it?

I am, but I am more interested in more information.

Quote from: didjamatic;191618

HA!  Told you it looked like it could take ALPS.  Variety and options are always a good thing.  WELL DONE!!

I don't get it? Just because he put ALPS switches on its deck? Looking on the pcb there seems to be too few holes for ALPS switches on some of the board. Maybe there are two different PCBs ???
And althoug it would be cool, why would a new product be introduced that can use (essentially) discontinued switches? I like the idea of a roll your own (like rippy said) but it doesn't really seem like one. I mean that is really catering to a small crowd doncha think? WAIT nevermind, like I am one to talk =P

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 11 June 2010, 07:11:53

That Fn layer could be a lot better.  Having part of the "numpad" accessible via Fn and the other part not would be a problem, too.  No arrow keys, even on the Fn layer, is a show-stopper as well.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 11 June 2010, 07:52:03

Quote from: DryDry;191936

this pic come from master ligo too~

The right hand numeric keypad is in what many would consider to be the wrong place, 456 being under 890 instead of being under 789.

As Ripster noted, this layout does not seem to be quite right, because the cursor keys are essential, and yet not only are they not on the keys ordinarily, they are nowhere to be found among the Fn shifts.

This could just be because only typed characters, not hand-drawn ones, are used in the diagram.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 11 June 2010, 07:55:54

Ripster, here's your dipswitch access... recessed hole on back of keyboard.
Could be good, can make it STANDARD LAYOUT (best for majority) or HHKB layout (best for some) or Customizable layout programmable via flash (Best for everyone) all with the flip of a switch.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10789&d=1275970548)

Title: Comparison oddities...
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:25:43

So I know you guys already mentioned the similarities between lowpoly's beveled casing but when I saw that photo that DryDry just posted I couldn't help but be reminded of lowpoly's miniguru rendering.
I don't want to start any problems especially when I don't know what I mean by this but what do you guys make of it? I am a curious bird =P

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10935&stc=1&d=1276262727)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:31:16

The top view rendering is clearly lowpoly's. Or at least lowpoly had used it, but I thought he had rendered it. Sorry that the images are low res (my internet is particuarly fussy today) but the two images are identical even down to the compression artifact origins (even though the new one has been messed with a tad and further modified).

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:37:39

It's clearly inspired by Lowpoly's Miniguru.  The bottom 2 graphics that show the layout are actually the exact same image that has been modified.  That's pretty bold.

This is what happens when you release prototype photos early enough to allow a competitor to copy it before yours is released.  I thought it might happen, though it's missing the pointing device.  Sometimes prototypes are intentionally off to mislead the competition too.  The Miniguru final design may differ from the concepts shown to the public.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:45:00

Yes. I don't mind a similar product being released. In fact that's great. But I don't want to see Lowpoly's one sabotaged before it can be made. E.g. if he still needs funding, but potential backers say "Hey look, there's a keyboard that looks just like yours at half the price." It may not be programmable or have the pointing device, but that will be no consolation if the Miniguru never gets made as a result.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:54:26

Well, it's only doing half the job, the Miniguru will keep you on home row for everything, this won't.  It looks like a fantastic keyboard and I would like to try to get some of them, but they are still very different.

Ferrari F355 GTS:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3424986105_1722229758.jpg)

Pontiac Fiero:
(http://carbl.com/im/2007/10/ferrarif355gts.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Fri, 11 June 2010, 08:56:32

in green...

Quote from: didjamatic;192035

It's clearly inspired by Lowpoly's Miniguru.
Indeed!
The bottom 2 graphics that show the layout are actually the exact same image that has been modified.
The entire thing is his, they just covered and semi cloned over parts of it.  That's pretty bold.
That's what I was thinking

This is what happens when you release prototype photos early enough to allow a competitor to copy it before yours is released.
yup and it's getting more and more common too
 I thought it might happen, though it's missing the pointing device.
But he was going to have the option of not having it iirc.
  Sometimes prototypes are intentionally off to mislead the competition too.  The Miniguru final design may differ from the concepts shown to the public.

I would expect it to, I am however curious as to what gets switched, changed, and/or incorporated. Should be interesting =)

I had this interesting thought earlier about the bottom bevel... Edit: I think I will have to give my thought more thought! XD

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 11 June 2010, 09:33:22

I LOVE the fact that it's PCB mounted and that you can use ALPS or Cherry is fantastic.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 11 June 2010, 10:28:05

Quote from: ripster;192055

Yep, I'm not complaining.  It's a hobbyist thing it smells like.

As long as that FCN key isn't obnoxiously hardwired it seems you could reprogram the firmware to stick the arrow keys wherever you want.

Problem, as always, with these Mysterious Posts From The Far East is getting your hands on them.  I'm even too lazy to get the KBC Keycaps.

Somebody stick it on Ebay from HK and I'll buy.

If only for the KBC keycaps, you don't have to, that two sets of keycaps will be on its way to the US next week, I think iMav will have received them by  18-6-10.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kishy on Fri, 11 June 2010, 12:30:10

Quote from: didjamatic;192043

Well, it's only doing half the job, the Miniguru will keep you on home row for everything, this won't.  It looks like a fantastic keyboard and I would like to try to get some of them, but they are still very different.

Ferrari F355 GTS:

Show Image

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3576/3424986105_1722229758.jpg)

Pontiac Fiero:

Show Image

(http://carbl.com/im/2007/10/ferrarif355gts.jpg)

Fairly certain that's not a Fiero lol (filename even says that's a real Ferrari, though I know 'upconversion' body kits exist)

(http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f152/142780d1267276174-hot-not-vector-w8-1988_pontiac_fiero_gt.jpg)

If you ask me, the Fiero is a better looking car...but that's me. Apparently they're pretty high maintenance just to keep them operating at all though.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Nonmouse on Fri, 11 June 2010, 13:19:51

Quote from: kishy;192100

Fairly certain that's not a Fiero lol (filename even says that's a real Ferrari, though I know 'upconversion' body kits exist)

The article (http://carbl.com/2007/10/08/fake-ferrari.html#more-580) is a little unclear- definitely not a Ferrari, though.

Quote

If you ask me, the Fiero is a better looking car...but that's me. Apparently they're pretty high maintenance just to keep them operating at all though.

Enh, they're no worse than any other 20+ year-old car.  Plus, you can do all sorts of interesting upgrades- like dropping an L32 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine#L32_Supercharged) 3.8L supercharged V6, coupled to an F40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_F40) six-speed tranny...
[/color]

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 11 June 2010, 14:06:24

Quote from: ch_123;191570

You don't do much programming in C, do you? :P

(in reference to the placement of the [{}] keys)

I've been thinking about that. There would be many alternate layouts, and programmability, and so the |\ key could be changed to a [] key easily enough. But that could not be the default, as one would not want a German keyboard to have a ü+ key or something like that.

Trying to do something more conventional, I can even put the normal cursor keys in, but at a cost:

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Fri, 11 June 2010, 14:44:54

Not a good cost to add those in.  Keys on the other side of enter and up arrow are abominations.  I'd rather have a single key sized shift key so there were two keys in front of the arrow, but that will doesn't solve the crtl key.  Although, the only time I tend to use the right ctrl is one handed ctrl+alt+del.  Goes to show I don't touch type my shortcuts correctly, but meh.  Maybe I should swap my ctrls with my windows keys, but I'm used to the left ctrl.

Ligo board - I'm not feeling that second layer.  As others have said - the right hand number pad is messed up and no arrows!

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: elbowglue on Fri, 11 June 2010, 16:44:53

Quote from: clickclack;192032

The top view rendering is clearly lowpoly's. Or at least lowpoly had used it, but I thought he had rendered it. Sorry that the images are low res (my internet is particuarly fussy today) but the two images are identical even down to the compression artifact origins (even though the new one has been messed with a tad and further modified).

So Ligo not only ripped off lowpoly's idea, he ripped off his graphics and slapped his own text on it to represent his own second layer?

I'm sorry this is total bull****.  I wonder if lowpoly contacted some manufacturer for his keyboard and they went on and pirated it to someone else (ligo?)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 11 June 2010, 16:50:04

Quote from: kishy;192100

Fairly certain that's not a Fiero lol

It's a fake (http://carbl.com/2007/10/08/fake-ferrari.html), those guys are getting good.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: rantenki on Fri, 11 June 2010, 22:56:54

Quote from: ironman31;191511

I'm more interested in the mini guru

+1, but the miniguru ain't around yet, so we have to entertain other options...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10975&stc=1&d=1276314970)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Fri, 11 June 2010, 23:59:32

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 12 June 2010, 00:14:39

Is it just me or did anyone else find that ^^^ post to be hilarious?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Brodie337 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 00:19:26

I refuse to show any more interest until we get some solid details.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Sat, 12 June 2010, 01:15:28

Yeah, he is a great guy.. sometimes it is cold [strike]among[/strike] between his ears.. (he hear badly)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Nonmouse on Sat, 12 June 2010, 01:33:44

Quote from: noctua;192366

Yeah, he is a great guy.. sometimes it is cold among his ears..

o.O  I don't think that translated very well from the German...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 12 June 2010, 02:08:11

Quote from: Nonmouse;192368

o.O  I don't think that translated very well from the German...

ROFL!!!!
No fair you beat me to the punch! I was going to suggest that he get some earmuffs =P

haahaa

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 03:42:15

What's goin on in this thread? Ligo's just posting dream keyboards and not giving any details?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 12 June 2010, 03:48:45

He thought we all liked fantasy photos of marginally tangential images

No, it's LEGO, with an E.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 03:52:30

Well that last series of photo looks friggen awesome.  It's what I always wanted, a hhkb format with a function row, and blank black keys.  If it has that viariable switch thing like he posted earlier, I'm sold whatever it is, assuming the prices don't reach the hhkb/realforce range.  I assume you can get the caps with it in either cherry or alps? The rest is a kit or something?  It's interesting, no cord...it's removable like the M or something?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Brodie337 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 03:52:30

I think its completely unrealistic for us to expect him to post any details, looking at his previous posts, not one of them has contained a single word.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 04:01:31

Quote from: Brodie337;192387

I think its completely unrealistic for us to expect him to post any details, looking at his previous posts, not one of them has contained a single word.

I noticed he's kinda been answering questions with photos. He might be embarassed to try to write english.  I might be tempted to do the same thing on a Japanese or Chinese forum if I couldn't write well, but wanted to show off an awesome product.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 04:04:31

Interesting the box has something to do with Philips? They made keyboards...

(http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/14/c4/87/72690556-260x260-0-0_Philips+Philips+SPT3700BC+Keyboard+USB+mouse.jpg)

Philips SPT3700BC/27

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 04:17:39

http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/archives/80

Kbtalking keyboard I would guess...  Now how to get one.

The kb may be talking but Ligo doesn't. roflol

Does this board support Chinese/Japanese?


挨拶

你好 !

You can copy and paste．．．．．．．at least...

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/forum/6292 (http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/forum/6292)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 04:35:13

Tracked it down..  I should get a prize. Run the translators.

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23587 (http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23587)

There were definitely references to lowpoly's board in the thread.

Ligo's in that thread too, but the original post was made by someone called saraymoh....

http://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587

Translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587&ei=1FYTTMqZOZTgnAe5y8SEDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbtN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official


By the translation it looks like they're as clueless as us, and Ligo posted here asking us? lol  They seem to think it's Lowpoly's board it looks like?

We need to ask Sara where she got the pics from?


This is an interesting thread on their forum. lol

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.cool3c.com/article/23610&ei=YloTTL2bMoiDngeX6NHyCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E7%2594%25B1Thomas543%2B%25E6%2596%25BC%25E4%25B8%2589,%2B2010/06/09%2B-%2B7:37am%2B%25E7%2599%25BC%25E8%25A1%25A8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dani%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official


This is one for you Ripster, found on their forum:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://imjustthatcool.blogspot.com/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbtN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhh-1cCHleY_TejSyzowtXZLrGIDhg

Found the photobucket stream the photos came from on their forum:

http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/pang0011/

? caps? cool

(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/pang0011/DSC02050.jpg)

Ducky's cool!

(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/pang0011/DSC02051.jpg)


Didn't know hhkb made a number pad, interesting.

(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/pang0011/IMG_3285.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 05:11:34

Quote from: chimera15;192395

Tracked it down..  I should get a prize. Run the translators.

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23587 (http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23587)

There were definitely references to lowpoly's board in the thread.

Ligo's in that thread too, but the original post was made by someone called saraymoh....

http://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587

Translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587&ei=1FYTTMqZOZTgnAe5y8SEDA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbtN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official


By the translation it looks like they're as clueless as us, and Ligo posted here asking us? lol  They seem to think it's Lowpoly's board it looks like?

We need to ask Sara where she got the pics from?


This is an interesting thread on their forum. lol

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.cool3c.com/article/23610&ei=YloTTL2bMoiDngeX6NHyCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBsQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E7%2594%25B1Thomas543%2B%25E6%2596%25BC%25E4%25B8%2589,%2B2010/06/09%2B-%2B7:37am%2B%25E7%2599%25BC%25E8%25A1%25A8%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3Dani%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official


This is one for you Ripster, found on their forum:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://imjustthatcool.blogspot.com/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://bbs.cool3c.com/article/23587%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DbtN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhh-1cCHleY_TejSyzowtXZLrGIDhg

saraymoh is me, I posted it on 8-Jun-10 on KBT,
a member ta497636 replied:
第一把我真的有想要預訂購, 真有 "The Miniguru Keyboard– Always on the Home Row : http://www.guru-board.com/ " 類似的視覺感受, 設計理念有明顯的相異ma

"I really want to buy the first small one (which is the “who” in this thread), it is a Miniguru look-alike but in fact it is a different design."

P.S. the pictures of this RF23U can also be found in keyboard pics of Geekhack : )

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 05:33:20

Quote from: pang0011;192401

saraymoh is me, I posted it on 8-Jun-10 on KBT,
a member ta497636 replied:
第一把我真的有想要預訂購, 真有 "The Miniguru Keyboard– Always on the Home Row : http://www.guru-board.com/ " 類似的視覺感受, 設計理念有明顯的相異ma

"I really want to buy the first small one (which is the “who” in this thread), it is a Miniguru look-alike but in fact it is a different design."

P.S. the pictures of this RF23U can also be found in keyboard pics of Geekhack : )

Ahh, the rf23u is the numberpad...but what's the one that Ligo's been posting?  Oh you don't know either? Where did you get the pictures from?  Ligo posted a lot more pics than I saw on your forum?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 05:49:19

the pictures are from ligo's posts on Geekhack, but he has also posted them on some mainland China forums.  I have no clue what this keyboard exactly is, but from one of his posts on mainland China (http://bbs.kbc-china.com/viewthread.php?tid=1941&highlight=), it is one of the new products in Computex Taipei 2010.  I have tried searching its product catalog of keyboard  (http://www.computextaipei.com.tw/en_US/product/index/list.html?currentPage=1&pageSize=10&condition=&mainCategory=2120&subCategory=212004&sortBy=¤tShowYear=2010&pmoreCate=false)but I couldn't find it.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 05:51:09

Awesome, thanks so much.  So Ligo is the one that they're originating with even on the China boards.  Is he teasing the kbc people with them too? So it's not coming from the kbc people either?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 06:35:05

I don't know ligo and can't speak for him, but I think Taiwanese keyboard manufacturers have been working very hard to reposition themselves, I can see that from their recent attempts, e.g. the i-rocks with Red Cherries, and this "who" ... etc.

This one is also a nice keyboard, mechanical switch with led (I guess), but indeed there are still rooms for improvement for its appearance
(http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq302/pang0011/Untitled-2-3.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 12 June 2010, 11:58:58

Quote from: DryDry;191936

this pic come from master ligo too~

Incidentally, when you (?) were referring to the "Wen Dream" keyboard (in one of the translated links provided in this thread), I suppose that was a completely different keyboard, and you haven't unravelled this mystery either?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Sat, 12 June 2010, 14:27:31

That backlit keyboard needs to be tenkeyless or detachable tenkey.  Given recent right hand issues, no more full boards for me, unless they're left handed with the ten key.  Although, the 104 Filco, is only like 1 key too wide, so it isn't a big deal.

I guess the keyboard mysteries continue.  I should really just start using chrome for this forum, so translation links go easier.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Sat, 12 June 2010, 19:34:22

Quote from: quadibloc;192442

Incidentally, when you (?) were referring to the "Wen Dream" keyboard (in one of the translated links provided in this thread), I suppose that was a completely different keyboard, and you haven't unravelled this mystery either?

the picture i have showed yesterday , and the kbd ligo have showed, are same one. i am sure above.
maybe that design was abondened.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: DryDry on Sat, 12 June 2010, 19:38:07

the "wen dream" kbd
in Chinese it is “文梦”  WoW

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Mon, 14 June 2010, 03:24:33

Hmm, what is the conclusion for the moment, we better shouldn't present any future prototype's here?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Mon, 14 June 2010, 03:43:08

Quote from: noctua;192921

Hmm, what is the conclusion for the moment, we better shouldn't present any future prototype's here?

We are happy to see information about possible new products.

But a teaser, where the prototype is shown with no real information - not even the name of the company responsible for the keyboard - is understandably considered annoying by some.

With no real commitment to anything, it undermines interest in real forthcoming products, specifically, in this case, the Miniguru. Some people might decide not to buy a Miniguru and wait for this - when, for all we know, it might be a mockup made by a prankster who has no intention of making any keyboards. That is conduct we don't want to encourage - or leave room for.

(For further understanding of the destructive effects of vaporware, one might note the role of the machine that became the IBM System 360/91 in the Control Data antitrust lawsuit against IBM.)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Mon, 14 June 2010, 04:37:30

accept orders   lol

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: isp on Mon, 14 June 2010, 04:56:11

ehh
I like how it looks for the most part.  Only thing that bothers me is how the rim just comes up to the midpoint and stops abruptly.  Kind of looks like some caps just sitting in a bucket or something.  Definitely something to keep an eye out for...still have my hopes up for the miniguru though

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pikapika on Wed, 16 June 2010, 05:28:23

Quote from: ripster;192453

"Wen Dream" Keyboard?

hmmmm wet dream

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Wed, 16 June 2010, 05:35:09

Quote from: ripster;192602

This post is starting to make sense to me.

"looks like wood".... LOL!

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: J888www on Wed, 16 June 2010, 11:23:30

I surmise Who is still in pre-production stage, like Miniguru and this this just a promotional research in its' demand. Why submit details to your competitors prior to production ? so no info.

Quote from: ta497636;191924

Can I type my word in Chinese here, and someone help me into English?

When in Lome, do what Lomans do, type Engrish.
Reminds me of the time when I was in Palis and was told to speak Flench.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 17 June 2010, 09:47:46

Quote from: J888www;193688

When in Lome, do what Lomans do, type Engrish.

I was posting on a Chinese BBS a while back (not about keyboards, other tech stuff) and I used Google Translate. I came back and was being roasted pretty mercilessly.

Luckily, the attention attracted a member who spoke Chinese and English, and they translated messages on my behalf, at which point I got quick and very friendly help from the other users.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Thu, 17 June 2010, 10:55:13

Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;193985

I was posting on a Chinese BBS a while back (not about keyboards, other tech stuff) and I used Google Translate. I came back and was being roasted pretty mercilessly.

Luckily, the attention attracted a member who spoke Chinese and English, and they translated messages on my behalf, at which point I got quick and very friendly help from the other users.

skvian who is also a member of Geekhack has a little English Keyboard Discussion forum  (http://skyian.mine.nu/discuz/viewthread.php?tid=1072&extra=page%3D1)in Taiwan, you can either write English or Chinese there if like to ask anything about Asia's keyboard market.  skvian is a savvy keyboard lover in Taiwan.

One of the geekhacker dropped a question there last year, wanna know who is that geekhacker and how skvian answered? ;)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 17 June 2010, 15:40:55

Quote from: pang0011;194000

skvian who is also a member of Geekhack has a little English Keyboard Discussion forum  (http://skyian.mine.nu/discuz/viewthread.php?tid=1072&extra=page%3D1)in Taiwan, you can either write English or Chinese there if like to ask anything about Asia's keyboard market.  skvian is a savvy keyboard lover in Taiwan.

One of the geekhacker dropped a question there last year, wanna know who is that geekhacker and how skvian answered? ;)

Interesting.  I like the bit about keyboard squirrels. lol

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Fri, 18 June 2010, 06:50:24

congratulation, the villains has won.. miniguru is canceled :-(

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 June 2010, 06:57:34

What? Where did you get that from?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Fri, 18 June 2010, 06:58:48

http://www.guru-board.com/blog (http://www.guru-board.com/blog)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: British on Fri, 18 June 2010, 07:02:53

D'oh !

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 18 June 2010, 07:07:13

Not good.  Not good at all.  Sorry to hear that, Lowpoly.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Fri, 18 June 2010, 07:10:41

What a coincidence! Fortunately ligo has posted his images punctual..

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11226&d=1276858941)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Fri, 18 June 2010, 07:28:05

Damn.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 18 June 2010, 07:32:57

That's a big-ass can of baked beans.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Fri, 18 June 2010, 08:04:50

No miniguru, Realforce 87U is harder to obtain and even harder to get cherry reds.  Dark days of keyboarding. :rain::rant:

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: British on Fri, 18 June 2010, 08:33:10

So, shall we start Operation "Salvage Miniguru" ? :wink:
(this thread might not be the best one to talk about this though)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ch_123 on Fri, 18 June 2010, 08:34:38

That sucks...

Oh well, go go Unicomp Spacesaver!

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 18 June 2010, 09:03:08

Quote from: DryDry;191936

Show Image

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10932)

this pic come from master ligo too~

Good catch, clickclack. :thumb:

That's one of my renderings being used here w/o permission.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 18 June 2010, 09:23:41

Wow that sucks, are you mad about the kbc which does look like a knockoff Lowpoly?  I wouldn't blame you.  The kit nature of it and pcb does look different and interesting though....do you think it'd be too much competition?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 18 June 2010, 09:40:18

Quote from: washuai

No miniguru, Realforce 87U is harder to obtain and even harder to get cherry reds. Dark days of keyboarding.

The 87u was only released as a Limited Edition (according to Topre), so the end of that 'board was inevitable.  The 86u will still be available, though.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 18 June 2010, 09:50:02

Quote from: chimera15;194275

Wow that sucks, are you mad about the kbc which does look like a knockoff Lowpoly?  I wouldn't blame you.  The kit nature of it and pcb does look different and interesting though....do you think it'd be too much competition?

The KBC had nothing to do with it (canceling).

The Miniguru was always out in the open, because of how it started. So this was a possibility.

Of course, using my pics and slapping a logo on it is not OK.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 18 June 2010, 09:52:24

Well, at least you have a couple, real Minigurus.  You also did something not many of us have done here which is make a keyboard entirely from scratch.  We're all still proud of your work, Sofa King.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: majestouch on Fri, 18 June 2010, 12:14:27

Quote from: lowpoly;194285

The KBC had nothing to do with it (canceling).

The Miniguru was always out in the open, because of how it started. So this was a possibility.

Of course, using my pics and slapping a logo on it is not OK.

This is the unfortunate reality of manufacturing today. The Chinese gov't keeps their currency closed AND officially has no respect for intellectual property laws world wide; it's a double whammy. So, it's never surprising to see Chinese companies rip off other people's work; they have the incentive (profit) and there is no recourse for their infringement: it's not a matter of "if", it's just a matter of "when".

(http://pram.web.id/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/sqny3.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: phoenix on Fri, 18 June 2010, 12:54:20

Quote from: lowpoly;194285

The KBC had nothing to do with it (canceling).

The Miniguru was always out in the open, because of how it started. So this was a possibility.

Of course, using my pics and slapping a logo on it is not OK.

Since it's after midnight in China, I suppose the Chinese folks are not going to be able to post before this thread turns worse.

Lowpoly, using your picture was very lazy and wrong indeed, but the picture in question was copied here from kbc's own forum by DryDry and not posted by ligo or imsto. It was originally used in a casual discussion about layout internally and not as marketing material. The KBC-CHINA.COM logo in the corner is a watermark on every picture uploaded to their forum. Pictures are also not viewable by guest visitors.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: pang0011 on Fri, 18 June 2010, 13:25:25

Well finally, what did KBTalking do with this keyboard? why KBTalking?  one of the KBT members said he couldn't fall asleep after he knew this story, he had to give vent to his anger by running up stairs.  It turns out it is not a KBT keyboard is it?

Mr Ligo, did you get a consent from KBTalking when you posted the pictures with a KBT keycap?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Xuan on Fri, 18 June 2010, 18:31:44

I think you really need to stop *****ing.
The miniguru is a great project and was really promising, I still hope lowpoly can do it and compensate his effort.
But the rest of us should be happy, there's still light, this who product seems to be an alternative, maybe not as many features and quality, but it seems to be a pretty good keyboard.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Fri, 18 June 2010, 18:46:12

Quote from: lowpoly;194285

The KBC had nothing to do with it (canceling).

I'm not sure how to take that. Of course they had nothing to do with it directly.

Since the arrangement of keys that both your keyboard and theirs share is the standard one on a 104-key U.S. keyboard (and they only have one Fn key, in a different place than on your design), and their keyboard isn't even going to be programmable... I would even go so far as to say that their design isn't all that much of a ripoff. Except for the very basic idea: that the HHKB could stand to face some competition.

The fact that your design was going to be programmable, and theirs isn't, means that your keyboard would have been much more interesting, and so I very much regret its loss.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Fri, 18 June 2010, 19:15:43

On another board I frequent, at least five other people have stated that they were planing to order the Miniguru, some as gifts.

I personally planned to get one (despite my love for my numpad) because of the unique design and features (firmware customization was especially cool to me). Plus I love trackpoints.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 19 June 2010, 03:46:49

To lowpoly-
no prob ;)

Quote from: phoenix;194369

... but the picture in question was copied here from kbc's own forum by DryDry and not posted by ligo or imsto...

I think that got a bit confusing because DryDry said it was from "master Ligo".
I completely understand what you are saying though, just so you know.

Quote from: pang0011;194375

Well finally, what did KBTalking do with this keyboard? why KBTalking?  one of the KBT members said he couldn't fall asleep after he knew this story, he had to give vent to his anger by running up stairs.  It turns out it is not a KBT keyboard is it?

Geeez, that's a bummer =S
Probably would have been nice if ligo didn't post both KBC and KBT stuff. At least that's what I got out of it.

Hmmm... I have an idea...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 23 June 2010, 10:18:02

Quote from: pang0011;194375

Well finally, what did KBTalking do with this keyboard? why KBTalking?  one of the KBT members said he couldn't fall asleep after he knew this story, he had to give vent to his anger by running up stairs.  It turns out it is not a KBT keyboard is it?

Mr Ligo, did you get a consent from KBTalking when you posted the pictures with a KBT keycap?

this keyboard would appear in Taiwan as KBT Pure, and they are discuz the layout that they would like..  
Ligo has got the approvement from the big boss of KBT to use that KBT keycap.
lol

I think KBC has not the ability to make the miniguru been canceled.

I asked a few question to Mr. lowpoly about the trackproint because I want to mod a knockoff one. haahaa.   I may cut a IBM dome kbd with trackpoint to do this.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 23 June 2010, 11:02:21

here is the boss  lol

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Tue, 29 June 2010, 01:15:12

Progressing...
(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/1006291227334ab7f1e4d49d61.jpg)


(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/10062912272e94ff1c4d750ff4.jpg)

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/1006291227f2d8ac7b65a65162.jpg)

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/10062912272118a2f82c46a9f1.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: sealym on Tue, 29 June 2010, 05:39:42

KBTalking

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: British on Tue, 29 June 2010, 06:53:31

Yay, more cryptic people \o/

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 29 June 2010, 08:16:51

Quote from: imsto;197457

Progressing...

Show Image

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/1006291227334ab7f1e4d49d61.jpg)

Show Image

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/10062912272e94ff1c4d750ff4.jpg)

Show Image

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/1006291227f2d8ac7b65a65162.jpg)

Show Image

(http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/10062912272118a2f82c46a9f1.jpg)

Dammit.  The pics appear to be broken.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: TexasFlood on Tue, 29 June 2010, 08:25:29

Quote from: itlnstln;197511

Dammit.  The pics appear to be broken.

Weird, if I copy the URLs out, I can bring them up, but not coming up in the message.

Code: [Select]

http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/1006291227334ab7f1e4d49d61.jpg
http://qq.a.5d6d.com/userdirs/c/4/kbc/attachments/day_100629/10062912272e94ff1c4d750ff4.jpg

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Tue, 29 June 2010, 09:17:28

try again
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11471&stc=1&d=1277821089)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11472&stc=1&d=1277821099)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11473&stc=1&d=1277821110)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11474&stc=1&d=1277821127)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 29 June 2010, 10:02:01

Nice, thanks for the repost.  Looking good.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 29 June 2010, 10:27:34

A bottom of a keyboard perhaps?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: noctua on Tue, 29 June 2010, 10:53:46

There was something sooo familiar about this lighting conditions..
Is this made in CHINA?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 29 June 2010, 11:18:40

Wow, injection molding case dies, amazing.  Musta cost a fortune, geesh.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: TexasFlood on Tue, 29 June 2010, 11:45:22

Gonna need some cylinder bores in those heads.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 29 June 2010, 13:12:22

I see someone else already said "injection molding case dies", so the fact that somebody went to a milling machine, and brought the keyboard closer to reality is apparent, despite the humorous possibilities suggested.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 29 June 2010, 14:06:35

Quote from: ripster;197666

The joke works because of the cryptic nature of this whole post.  And he DID ask us to try again.

Oh, that's why you were posting that; I didn't get it.  He was saying "try again," because I pointed out that the first time he posted those pics, the link was broken, so that post was his second try.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 30 June 2010, 08:16:27

try the third......

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 30 June 2010, 08:17:28

this mold is for this KBC 40.  
plastic would be push into it then got a shell.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 30 June 2010, 09:06:49

tens of thousands USD.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Rajagra on Wed, 30 June 2010, 09:33:36

Over nine thousaaaaaand?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 30 June 2010, 19:01:43

Quote from: ripster;197593

Heavy duty Legos?

The Chinese Mint?

Chipotle Burrito steamer?

it was made in Taiwan

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: quadibloc on Wed, 30 June 2010, 19:37:13

Quote from: ripster;197734

Try again.

Ask again later.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 30 June 2010, 21:27:18

My sources say yes.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: MonsieurLam on Mon, 30 August 2010, 09:05:14

First post here (great forum guys) to come to the news for this keyboard. I was very motivated for the Guru but I presume this one is now the closest I can get.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: WhiteRice on Mon, 30 August 2010, 09:27:00

Yea you have to be a level 50+ keymaster to get info on the really good keyboards

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: MonsieurLam on Thu, 02 September 2010, 04:58:00

Feels like it's gonna be a mess to get one of those (if they don't end to be vaporware).

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: washuai on Sat, 04 September 2010, 03:31:53

We haven't had any updates on this in a while.  At least so far I haven't allowed my hopes to go up.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: WhiteRice on Sat, 04 September 2010, 06:57:28

I found some stuff. Most particularly on the layout and possibly a name.

(http://zachwang.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/4707769476_b602d766bb_o.jpg)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29237441@N07/sets/72157624291214696/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29237441@N07/sets/72157624291214696/)

Check out the rest of the galleries too. I would seem that this person is a pretty big computer peripheral enthusiast.

Edit: More

http://kbtalking.cool3c.com/article/23806

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3479479781_8c0e9c96b2_o.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Wed, 08 September 2010, 07:53:38

it will be available on October if everything is normal.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: imsto on Sat, 11 September 2010, 11:05:31

ripster: there is also one guy, he did also always saying cut the rshift into two, and even the spacebar,  because people did press the space bar always with the same thumb.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 11 September 2010, 11:26:17

Quote from: ripster;220884

Should have made it a stuffing option on the PCB.  Plenty of room.

You should try looking at what's there on the HHKB PCB. You'd be surprised...

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ironman31 on Fri, 01 October 2010, 07:42:22

Anymore word on availability other than hopefully This month?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: WhiteRice on Fri, 01 October 2010, 09:18:18

I bet laden3 knows

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: laden3 on Fri, 01 October 2010, 09:29:55

idk... should ask ligo or imsto

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kip69 on Fri, 01 October 2010, 20:39:08

This is made in Taiwan right.  So PM me a name and location.  I will go around the place and get some answers, perhaps take my father-in-law if they need some persuading.

Is there a summery of info anywhere?

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: squarebox on Tue, 19 October 2010, 00:43:28

More pics ?
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/1.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/2.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/3.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/4.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/5.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/6.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/7.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/8.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k221/undarken/random/9.jpg)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: hemo796 on Tue, 19 October 2010, 01:34:34

Kb looks very nice :O

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: kip69 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 06:58:51

There are a few more pictures at KBC.  From what I can tell, they are still in the planning, asking for opinions stage.  It is not in production at all.  The name: KBC 40%.  because its 40% of the size of a full grown keyboard.  There are some questions about copy right and stuff from "foreigners".  I will try to give some input to them.  Is there anything you can suggest to make it better?

I am sending in my Boffins now.  Details later :)

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Co-Op on Wed, 20 October 2010, 08:38:33

The shortstop's name is Ducky Filco.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Sam on Wed, 20 October 2010, 08:54:17

Quote from: kip69;236283

The name: KBC 40%.  because its 40% of the size of a full grown keyboard.

Or maybe 40% of ever becoming a real product. :)  Seems there's a number of interesting boards announced but continual delays or cancellations.  I want to see some real boards!

Ok, don't take that the wrong way, I'm not really complaining - please continue posting any information you have on these products in planning and development.  Better I suppose they take their time and get it right than rush it and make something sub-standard.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: Sam on Wed, 20 October 2010, 09:14:30

Quote from: ripster;236327

Needs inverted T arrow keys.

No, please no inverted T's.  That would absolutely kill it for me.  I hate that keyboard clutter down in the lower right.  There's too many keys already for my right pinky.  If you only give the arrows, then what about the Page Up, Page Down, Home, End?  I use those in conjunction with the arrows.  They must be available in the same general area via the same method.  Putting only the arrows but leaving the other cursor keys off is nonsense to me.  There's too many mini keyboards already that muck it up by adding too many keys.  We need one like it is which has minimal keys.

Of course that's all just my personal preferences and I respect other people's opinions.  And if nobody's gonna make a mini the way I want it, I'll just have to make my own.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: zefrer on Wed, 20 October 2010, 09:21:15

Keys are keys. Making a keyboard that requires drivers in order to even work properly is about the most asinine thing I've ever seen. It's a damn keyboard, it shouldn't need drivers - the USB HID spec is there for a reason.

See every keyboard ever made that does not have BS 'multimedia keys' for reference.

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: laden3 on Wed, 20 October 2010, 09:23:50

real boards? here
http://bbs.kbc-china.com/thread-3526-1-1.html (http://bbs.kbc-china.com/thread-3526-1-1.html)
more pics= more questions when u don't understand the language =P

Title: Who vs hhkb
Post by: ligo on Wed, 20 October 2010, 09:33:35

coming soon