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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: typo on Mon, 07 June 2010, 00:03:35
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hi,
my first post here. i am very familiar with mechanical keyboards though.
characters wearing off really bothers me. which is why i just replaced my g80-3000.
i looked closely at the das. i noticed that the paint was not actually in the laser indents. they missed and applied a lot of the paint to the tops of the keys.
so i decided to buy the filco.
solely in regard to the longevity of the characters, did i make the right choice? keeping in mind what i stated above regarding the das.
thank you
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I believe the filcos have way better labels than "das keyboard"s.
But if the keys are black, you'll always get wear... unless you coat them. You need to get a vintage-sage colour.
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wear is fine with me. after some years the keys on the cherry completely rubbed off. blanks. it was a grey board.
i am happy to know i made the right choice. i thought i did :)
otherwise this board is really nice imo. the only minor issue is the enter is a little sticky. i'll probably grease it.
what can i coat the keys with? acryl?
thank you
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Double-shot keys FTW.
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Well you could have baught only the keycaps ... or checked this thread: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924
But which G80 keycaps did you wear off?
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the a and s were completely gone. i still have it. i am guessing it's a better board than the filco. maybe i can get keys from cherry?
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i guess i can coat them with acryl(or should i use something else?). if there is any reason to do so. i don't mind shiny, just not missing letters. i am surprised that i was correct in thinking the pad printed filco would last longer than the das. since these are cherry mx i suppose there is no problem getting some keys when i need them? are they universal? double shot or dye sub would obviously be superior.
i did not care for the font on the das either. the filco printing looks a lot cleaner. especially since das mostly missed the etching with the paint/epoxy. pretty sloppy imo.
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i saw that before. i am glad i did not get the das. the filco looks much nicer. i do not know why my cherry keys wore off but that board has thousands of hours on it. i guess nothing lasts forever.
anyways, should i spend the time to coat the filco with acryl. or is iit a waste of my time?
all i want is for it to not rub off for a few years of 4 hours a day.
thanks
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The keys get faded because you touch yourself.
Faded keys teach you to touch-type.
Also, faded keys are 1337.
You know what to do.
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i used the acryl. it dried clear as expected. i put it on sort of thick. if it makes a difference time will tell. i never thought rubbed off keys were l33t. i do not look while i am typing of course. it just bothers me. i am anal like that,sorry. if anyone else wants to do it, it does not change the board. other than make the keys feel smother, but they still have grip.
thanks for the information guys.
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I thought lasered keys were good? I suppose the coating that makes them white will fade away... but won't you have black-on-black lettering then?
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characters wearing off really bothers me. which is why i just replaced my g80-3000.
What's the full type number? Like g80-3000ABCDEF.
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Kinesis Lasered Key. As you can see the lasering is quite shallow and the infill labels can come off quite easily.
If that's what your numlock looks like, did you have any other keys left? Except scroll lock and pause?
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If I may make a suggestion...don't sandblast M13 keys. Do the Unicomp rubber dome if anything...same printing technique, but practically value-less keys.
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i didn't want to start another thread and bother you guys.
my enter key is sticky. just a little. is there a way i can fix it? i really don't want to send it back.
thank you.
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i didn't want to start another thread and bother you guys.
my enter key is sticky. just a little. is there a way i can fix it? i really don't want to send it back.
thank you.
Knowing what keyboard helps, but I'd say try blasting it with air first, then 90%+ isopropyl alcohol if that doesn't work.
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it is a filco cherry mx blue. your recommendations worked.
thank you
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i tired the das today. glad i got the filco. i also tried the adesso and it seems even nicer than the filco! maybe they worked their initial issues out? this one had a windows 7 sticker on it. it was the model 135 and only $69!
honestly though i am sorry i did not get another real cherry g80-3000. they are $65 and i bet they are higher quality than the filco?
oh well, i am happy with what i have. my enter key is fixed/ my "j" is a drop crooked(the key not the letter) but it is all good.
thanks for all the advice guys. i learned a whole lot reading this forum.
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really, it did not seem anywhere near as bad as the review here suggested. maybe it is a newer version? the action was good, the workmanship was probably as good as the filco. one thing i did notice is if you twisted it, it did not flex as much as the filco. still, the filco is better i'd assume. for less than 70 bucks there was nothing to complain about imo. i would have looked at it if it were $100 as well!
i think i am going to get the cherry again though. it was better quality than any of these "clones". mine still works fine, some letters just rubbed off. mine has maybe thousands of hours on it. i do have topre envy of course lol.
before we know it you guys will have me collecting keyboards too :)
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you must have misunderstood me,sorry. i had a 10+ year old cherry g80-3000 that the a and s wore completely off of. i never had a das! i mentioned that i chose the filco over the das simply because i could not locate a das(there was a display but they had to order one to sell). i was asking if i made a good choice in choosing the filco over the das. it seemed the posts above agreed i did indeed. today i found a store 70 miles from me that had a das and adesso model 135. i went there to purchase a color laser printer that was on sale. i tried both the das and the adesso. now owning the filco, i actually feel the adesso is probably the best out of all except the cherry! i am guessing the adesso that got the rotten review here was an early model. they must have had to work the bugs out, just like das had to. i am pretty sure even though i guess the adesso is better, in reality my filco is probably better. the adesso was plenty good though. the das did not seem as good. however i must be honest, the stores display das was pretty beat up and the adesso was not. so factor that in.
i was originally wondering in this post if the das's lettering would last longer than the filco's(pad printed). according to the posts above the filco should probably last longer.
the cherry lasted a very long time. i plan to get another cherry asap as i mentioned above and put the filco on a different machine.
when i looked at the das the first time and today, it appeared that they "missed" the laser indents with the paint/epoxy. i don't know if that means anything or not. the adesso is also pad printed but it looks nicer than the filco(bigger brighter letters).
someone asked what model my g80-3000 was. the sticker has worn off the bottom so i cannot tell. i am sure it is a g80-3000 of some sort though. it still works fine it is just missing two letters which bothers me. since the g80-3000 is only $65 now i'll just get another. meanwhile i am trying to talk myself into a topre. i spend 8-10 hours a day coding c# so i can probably justify it.
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First time I've heard of worn-off lettering on a Cherry board that should have something durable (I guess lasered - is it already a uni-color design, or does the lettering on very rarely used keys feel kinda rough?). Then again, from what you write it must have been through an awful lot of use. The worst case I've seen so far was a sample that was about 7 years old when I got it - lots and lots of black dust, and the numpad Enter was so worn the lettering had become a little thin at the lower end, even though the board itself worked perfectly. I ultimately gave that one to a technician who was used to G81s and thus wouldn't mind MX blacks. I guess it'll work fine for years to come.
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I wore one letter off my filco in only a couple weeks, but it was just that one letter...on every keyboard I've ever owned, the D key wears down first.
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I wore one letter off my filco in only a couple weeks, but it was just that one letter...on every keyboard I've ever owned, the D key wears down first.
Tend to turn to the right in FPS, huh?
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more like strafe, i turn with the mouse :D
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Maybe he's used to leading with his long finger ...
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my cherry board had seen many,many hours of heavy use. i can't fault it. i have read the only keys that will probably never wear off are ds but laser will.
you can see the letters a little but they are very thinned out. well, i guess you can see the laser indent. the paint is gone. it was a grey board with sort of brown letters.
i am surprised some people mentioned the filco would outlast the das. then again i take it the das is just not as good as the filco overall from what i have read here.
i called testors today. they said the only way to remove acryl is by sanding with a low grit or mineral spirits. i doubt my fingers abrading the board will wear the letters off any time soon then. some of you might want to look into brushing clear mat acryl onto your keys if they are pad printed. it is slightly noticeable but nothing i mind. it is very clear but it left a little residue where i applied too much. just coat them lightly with a model brush.
i wish filco used laser or ds but i see that has been askewd of them many times here.
i'll let you guys know in a few months if there is any wear.
i think overall the filco is nicer than the das and i am happy with it. i was surprised though that the adesso semmed to me to be far from the junk that was suggested here.
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guys, i just had a question. i was thinking of a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100. it would displace the filco to another machine i rarely use(server). are the keycaps on the cherry smaller than those on the filco? what about the switch feel? i am used to mx blue and model f and m's. is it good for typing or is it mainly a pos board? i would not be using the pad either. to be honest the only reason i am intrested is the better keys.
thank you.
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i am surprised some people mentioned the filco would outlast the das. then again i take it the das is just not as good as the filco overall from what i have read here.
It's not so much that the filco outlasts the das. Both are made by costar, it's that diatec tends to take additional steps to remove problem keyboards. And EKB does their own additional testing to check for any problems.
Though, I'm sure a few slip by the radar every once in a while.
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i was talking about a couple of folks mentioned the lettering would last longer. i was surprised they felt the filco's pad print would outlast the das's lasered. maybe that i mentioned the das' epoxy was not completely in the indents. they missed a little. so i could see that wearing off. what i really want is ds keys for the filco. so does everyone else, i read here lol.
to me the case of the das did not seem to be as sturdy as the filco. then again the case on the adesso was like a tank imo. that must have weighed 5lbs. i still don't understand how it got such a poor review here. unless they have improved it.
please don't overlook my above post about the g80-11900. if it has smaller keycaps than the filco, it is not for me. anyways, i am plenty happy with the filco. for all i know, having put acryl on the keys it may last 20 years. i told testors what i used it for and they said it will not come off in my lifetime! we shall see...
thanks
ps, about typos and no shift. i am trying to learn to type in a 100% dark room. so please bear with me. i figured getting the filco was a good time to learn.
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guys, i just had a question. i was thinking of a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100. it would displace the filco to another machine i rarely use(server). are the keycaps on the cherry smaller than those on the filco? what about the switch feel? i am used to mx blue and model f and m's. is it good for typing or is it mainly a pos board? i would not be using the pad either. to be honest the only reason i am intrested is the better keys.
thank you.
I have a couple of them. Two hours typing on them is my tops, they are just linear - absolutely no feel. If you are coding for 8 hours a day they will drive you nuts.
I thought the key caps were interchangeable with the Filco, more knowledgeable people should know.
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thank you guys. if the keys are interchangeable, i will get a used cherry board and i am all set. actually that is sort of dumb really. i guess i should wait and see if the keys even wear off the filco. testors said with the apllication of the acryl it is doubtful they will ever wear off. plus i like the filco's font. maybe someone could try an abrasion test with acryl on the letters. that might be useful for a lot of people. i do not have the means to do it or i would do it for you guys.
i would not know what to say about the adesso. i used it 10 minutes. all i can say is it seemed at least as nice as the filco and nicer than the das.
i am glad i did not go get the 11900 then. thank you.
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a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100.
Another note on the G80-11900. $100 is WAY too much, even for New In Box. I got more than one NIB 11900 for well under $50 including shipping.
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wow. my salesman wanted $152! he offered me $100 since we buy in volume. geez, i guess i was getting ripped off after all. thank you for letting me know this!
meanwhile i really am happy with the filco. i know he won't go less than $50 so i'll just stick with the filco untill i get the topre.
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Well, I'm referring to eBay pricing, and he's probably got a retail price list.
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the keys are getting shiny already. i suppose that is the acryl getting polished and not the normal course of shiny keys. as long as the letters do not wear off i achieved what i wished with the acryl. i will be sure to let you guys know if they wear off at some point.
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Aplogies if I missed it, but what does acryl fell like compared to original coating? Smoother, more grip, or what?
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it is strange it feels smooth if you type but if you rub the key it has more grip. like 1000 grit sandpaper maybe. if you use it just dont use too much. brush on a light coat.
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the acryl wore down and i cannot even tell it is on there. except for a little more grip than the stock keys. i think this was a great idea. so long as the letters actually last longer.
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I guess they use something else than acryl for the "decal type" lettering then... PBT or PP maybe?
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they obviously do not use acryl. you can see on boards with keys that have only the legend coated and not the whole key what they use is much thicker. like on a microsoft or logitech. acryl is one of my secret weapons. you can apply it to fragile surfaces and they will not wear out for many years. i discovered it when i built models. it is a model building product to protect decals. when wet is is thinner than water. i applied mine a little too thick on some keys. the ones i just brushed over it is unnoticeable. when dry it is very hard to remove. except with strong solvents or heavy sandpaper.
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i just wanted to ask if i am doing something very wrong. even with acryl i wore some legends completely off the filco and adesso in less than 40 hours of use on both of them!
this does not make sense to me because acryl is very hard to remove, especially if only friction is used.
furthermore, one should not even have to go coat the keys on $100+ keyboards with acryl to begin with!
i have worn the legends off of every pad printed board and even lasered cherrys i have had in no time at all. someone mentioned body chemistry. all i can figure is that has to be the issue. i am very taken aback that i wore through acryl!
if it helps to figure this out, i have worn the finish off of logitech gaming mice. that took a lot longer though.
i am really sad about this.
i have no problem getting a topre but i prefer cherry mx blues.
so here is the bottom line: is there a way i can obtain double shot keys for these two boards that will not cost a lot of money? are cherry mx keys universal?
thank you
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thanks ripster. actually i would not be surprised if acryl is more chemical and abrasion resistant then whatever keyboard manufacturers use on the keys. it is some heavy duty stuff. still, i managed to wear through it. i put acryl over a paint chip on a tile floor 17 years ago and have cleaned it with solvents many times. it has yet to wear off. it does not even seem to be worn off my keyboards. yet the letters vanished. very strange indeed. i don't think they use acryl because .5 ounce is $15. i guess i wasted my time using it anyways.
as i asked above, are cherry mx keys universal? i could grab a old cherry board and replace all the keys on the filco and adesso. or some other source for inexpensive double shot keys that will fit the filco and adesso? i have worn the paint out of lasered keys but that took a lot longer. like 4 years.
i might have to go with a cherry board even though i think they are poorly made compared to the adesso and especially the filco.
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At a guess, I'd say that the acryl softened the printed legend, and then wasn't thick enough/hadn't fully dried/both and wore through quickly, taking the legends with it. I haven't heard anyone else complain about the legends on any boards wearing through that quickly.
As a solution, I'd probably sand off the rest of the legends, find decals of a font I linked, put them on and then coat them with several layers of acryl, thinned clear nail polish or lacquer, making sure to let them dry completely between coats.
Or, alternatively, dig up some double-shot or blank keys.
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as i asked above, are cherry mx keys universal? i could grab a old cherry board and replace all the keys on the filco and adesso. or some other source for inexpensive double shot keys that will fit the filco and adesso?
The mounting points are universal; the profiles and key shapes are not. Filcos are slightly taller than Cherry keys- I'm not positive about Adesso, but I think they're the same height as Cherry. Cherry MY (G81-) keys are also essentially interchangeable with MX switches, though some people have complained of them fitting too tight or too loose on MX switches.
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thank you. if you are correct, i guess my great idea was a screwup. however, acryl is made to be applied over decals on models. i assume the legends are rubber squeezed through a die, aka pad printing. i guess it is possible acryl eats rubber. i could call testors and ask them. acryl is an intresting product. it is water based while wet and dries to a laquer base.
i'll see if cherry keys fit the adesso. i have some old g80 and g81 boards.
the adesso wore quicker than the filco. like in a day. the legends on that board are junk. otherwise i found the board to be ok for the most part.
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thanks ripster. that seems like a big pain but i'll see what i can gather up.
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Girls can wear down pad printed boards too! I have an "ergonomic" Belkin rubberdome special that started wearing down after a couple years. D, K and L are completely gone. S F G, J O and ; are all partially worn off.
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the pigmented india ink seems to have solved my problem. it came out great imo. of course time will tell. it is burnt into the plastic so i don't think it is going anywhere soon.
acryl was probably a bad idea in retrospect.
i think the adesso board is real nice now. they should make better keys from the factory and have better qc. then they could compete with das and filco i guess. i doubt they care. i called their us office and they blew me off. i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).
thank you for all the advice you guys offered me here.
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i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).
Oh, that's right, I don't remember if I ever used the media keys. You hold down the Windows key or something?
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the pigmented india ink seems to have solved my problem. it came out great imo. of course time will tell. it is burnt into the plastic so i don't think it is going anywhere soon.
acryl was probably a bad idea in retrospect.
i think the adesso board is real nice now. they should make better keys from the factory and have better qc. then they could compete with das and filco i guess. i doubt they care. i called their us office and they blew me off. i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).
thank you for all the advice you guys offered me here.
Picture? :becky:
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hold down the shift key to use the media keys.
i'll post a pic if i remember tomorrow. it is a deadringer for stock though. the legends are not as bright white. kind of a grey. looks dyesub'd. which it essentially is.
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guys, i was kind of thinking about this. i was wondering why pad printed legends slowly fade away and don't just smudge off all the sudden? also, why do the ones like thin decals stay on longer than the heavily applied raised ones? for instance keytronic stays much longer than filco or adesso in my travels.
thanks
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Hi everyone
I was reading this post with interest as my Benq keyboard just died. I am using the windows on screen keyboard ... :(. My question is are there keycaps that the lettering will not fade over the life of the mechanical switches?
I have read that the cherry brown last 50 million cycles, yet it seems the keycaps don't last as long.
From what I have read the double shot ones last the longest. I live in Canada and would appreciate it if you can recommend a modern keyboard has the double shot keys as standard. I just use my keyboard to type so don't need any special features, I did manage to wear the lettering off my last scissor type keyboard. I spend about 10 hours a day typing.
Preferably PS2 and if not a "cheap" keyboard that I can replace the keys with double shot keys. I see there are places that offer custom keys. http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capswhatsnew.php (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capswhatsnew.php)
Will the Deck backlit ones last as they are really letters "cut" out?
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Keycaps are made by the keyboard manufacturer and have nothing to with the switches. As far as Cherry brown-based keyboards go, you basically have three choices: a Cherry-made 'board (of various models), Filco, or Das S. The Cherry-made 'boards are not necessarily the prettiest, but their keycaps are rock solid; good materials and either laser-etched or double shot. Filco is a much prettier 'board with great build quality, but the keycaps tend to go shiny quickly; however, they have developed a printing technique that resists wear. Letter wear tends to be the exception not the norm with Filcos. The Das S has good build quality as well and has distinctive styling. The Das also has lasered keycaps, so the letters won't wear, but they use a weird font for the legends.
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You can also get old Cherry keyboards from companies that haven't existed in over 15 years. They're dirt cheap but kind of ugly.
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Thanks for the reply.
I mentioned cherry brown cos from what I have read they would suit me best. However I am more concerned about key wear. I saw a picture of a filco worn key and it did not look pretty.
Does the Realforce have better wear?
Found this while reading
liquid glass (http://www.gizmag.com/nanopool-spray-on-liquid-glass/14135/)
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If you don't want keys that wear, I would recommend looking into double-shot keys.
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Thanks for the reply.
I mentioned cherry brown cos from what I have read they would suit me best. However I am more concerned about key wear. I saw a picture of a filco worn key and it did not look pretty.
Does the Realforce have better wear?
Found this while reading
liquid glass (http://www.gizmag.com/nanopool-spray-on-liquid-glass/14135/)
Filco keys don't typically wear. It has happened, but it's not the norm. You may want to go with the Das or a Cherry 'board if it's that important. Realforces' legends do not wear (the caps can still get shiney, though) since they use dye sublimation, but they use Topre switches, not Cherry browns.
Check out this article (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys) in the wiki. It will get you going in the right direction. (Take special note of the 4 y/o Filco with no key wear in the article.)
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thanks that was good reading looks like IBM or Unicomp will work fine too. Now to find one of the above in mechanical switch... any suggestion .
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why does wasd always wear off first? obviously those are the most used keys. i just don't understand why they are the most used keys. i suppose the answer lies somewhere in the english langauge. i am guessing more words contain one of the wasd. unless it is that we put more pressure on those keys. if someone has an explanation please do tell.
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Umm... most computer games with keyboard controls use WASD like the arrow cluster. Worn WASD = gamer board if you ask me. For me, the most worn keys would be RSTLNE, just like Wheel of Fortune.
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well that is really weird. i never play games at all. i type a lot. like nonstop 10+ hours a day. my wasd always wears out first! thats really baffling.
i have even worn out lasered keys. although that took a little longer. all that remained was the burn marked indent. the epoxy was all but gone! i have turned double shots shiny but never wore off the legends. i guess i am just a terrible abuser of poor keyboards. when i show up to work my board must be screeaming for mercy lol.
i also wanted to mention something i figured out. someone mentioned a while ago that the term "tampon printing" was a issue of poor translation. in fact they were correct! the correct term is "tampo-printing". i can see where the term was misinterpreted. the culprits took the "p" from printing and moved it over to the end of the other word. this left them with "tapon rinting". of course this made no sense so they added another "p" back to the "rinting".
thus "tampon printing" was born. ala some chinese folks.
i just thought this was an intresting tidbit since we are, after all geeks!
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Typo.. can I ask what keyboard you are currently using?
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the keyboard that i have in use is an adesso mkb-135b. i really like this keyboard.
first i coated the stock legends with acryl in fear they would wear off. they wore off anyhow.
then i reapplied the legends with a mixture of india ink and white pigment. they are still on but they are turning brownish-black. i stamped them on. it was a very time consuming process to make the stamps and scan the fonts.
i guess the problem is i am messing with chemistry i don't know about. i understand chemistry very well. i just had no idea how these substances would react with the plastic keytops. what i think is happening now is that the india ink is overpowering the white pigment as it cures over a long period. just a guess.
the reason i started off with the acryl was in fear that they would wear off. i have wore off legends on everything short of double shots. including a number of laser etched keycaps. no pad printed board has ever lasted me more than 4 months! i guess i have really funky body chemistry. i keep my hands washed. it does not seem to help though.
anyways if it ends up looking like a black topre i won't complain.
i also applied acryl to a filco and the legends promptly wore off. the ironic thing is i did that thinking it would preserve them!
i guess i could take a picture of the adesso as it is right now.
i don't know if the faded ink will come out though. it might. you will have to excuse the cat furr all over it if i do please. gotta love the furry friends!
if i can get legends i like on this board i would be done. i really like this board.
i saw some great stickers for mailboxes but they are 1". really cool though, raised gold on black. bling-bling!
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these are the keys i dyed. notice the a/s/d. i think i put too little dye into the india ink and the black is bleeding through. either that or it is rubbing off. i don't see it on my fingers. look how shiny the keycaps are! only one month old.
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typo .. Doesn't look too shabby.
Does anyone know the difference between the Cherry G80-3000 and the G81-3000.
I am finding it difficult to find suppliers in Canada for the G80-3000 PS2 brown switch (not sure if there are black versions). Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced reseller?
Thx in advance
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the g81 is a my switch not mx. it is not a real mechanical keyboard. it is not really a rubber dome either. sort of a slider that pushes the contact sheet together. trust me, you want a g80. there are some used ones on ebay.
i forgot to mention, i only did the letters on that board. obviously i could not do the first six function keys,larger keys etc. it is always my letters that wear out anyways. starting with the wasd. i do not game at all so i don't get it. look at the a/s/d. those are done in the tinted india ink. i think the white pigment is rubbing off. since the india ink is super permenant, the white pigment is not. it is not on myfingers though. strange.
the nice thing is i can probably touch it up. if i use the stamp i will not get it exactly lined up and freehand i am not steady enough. any ideas? getting the acryl off was hard. getting the legends off was easy.
remember, the stock legends completley dissapeared on me in 8 days. that is what prompted me to use the ink. i wish i had a picture of that. i do not understand how i wore through the acryl so fast.
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stock adesso picture regards to this forum.
any idea how i can touch my legends up that are turning brown, freehand? it is very difficult because the legends are so small. my legends are actually thinner than the stock board as well. or some other idea to restore it? half the legend is still there. it looks like a zebra lol.
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I don't know what it is with me and D keys, but I'm already wearing off the printing on mine again. I've only had these wasd keys for ~3 weeks :(
I'm pretty sure I don't strafe right that much more than left, but I dunno.
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So I did some thinking. W won't get dirty because your finger doesn't come of it as often. Tapping A and D are the biggest nuisances (and my A and D keys got black as hell). Since your index finger is used more often than your ring finger, it's either stronger and more able to imprint dirt onto the key, or more dirty from use. Actually, I like crouch-hopping in games and left-ctrl was the first key to get black on my keyboard.
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I am not sure about the WSAD keys. I know the regular Filco keys are pretty durable. My Filcos had no signs of wear. Here is Majestouch's 4 y/o Filco:
(http://www.elitekeyboards.com/external/3year_filco2.jpg)
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Well, the 6Gv2 has laser etched keys which collect dirt in the grooves.
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Well, the 6Gv2 has laser etched keys which collect dirt in the grooves.
That's certainly the case. I don't really like laser-etched, black keys anyway. Laser-etching looks much better on white keys, if not a little low-contrast.
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So I did some thinking. W won't get dirty because your finger doesn't come of it as often. Tapping A and D are the biggest nuisances (and my A and D keys got black as hell). Since your index finger is used more often than your ring finger, it's either stronger and more able to imprint dirt onto the key, or more dirty from use. Actually, I like crouch-hopping in games and left-ctrl was the first key to get black on my keyboard.
Well I tend to have clean hands when using my ****, so they keys aren't getting dirty :/ I don't have oily or greasy skin either, and I don't let people use my computer without washing their hands first. However, on every single keyboard I've had, the D key went first. Also, the best way is shift for crouch, ctrl for walk :)
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Shift for crouch? Blasphemy!
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My pinky rests on the shift key a lot more comfortably when using wasd than if i was to try leaving it on ctrl...and I crouch a lot more than I walk :D
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Shift for crouch does make a lot of sense. Ctrl is a little difficult to reach from WSAD with my baby hands.
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Mine can sit fine on crouch without having to distort any of my fingers except for the pinky.
*edit
Lol, see, for me, crouch = left-ctrl. I actually meant to type left-ctrl above.
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Well I certainly don't have a problem reaching ctrl with the left pinky, but it's just not as comfy as leaving it on shift.
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Yeah, I agree, but hey, after 9 years of shift-walk and ctrl-crouch, I won't change :p
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i figured out my problem but i don't understand what it means. at some point i switched to white legends on black keyboards. these are the ones that always fade and eventually rub off. back when i used white/grey boards with pad printed brownish legends they would last for years.
maybe the white legends are just getting dirty and not actually rubbing off? i have no luck trying to clean them though.
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i figured out my problem but i don't understand what it means. at some point i switched to white legends on black keyboards. these are the ones that always fade and eventually rub off. back when i used white/grey boards with pad printed brownish legends they would last for years.
Chances are your old boards, unlike the newer ones, actually didn't have pad printed but rather lasered or dye sublimation lettering.
The options for lettering black 'boards in a durable way are somewhat more limited, that's true. Basically what you can do is:
* plain pad printing (will be gone rather quickly)
* pad printing with transparent wear-proof plastic coating over legend ("decals", e.g. Logitech Classic 200) or whole key (e.g. Filco)
* lasered lettering using either a plastic that becomes lighter (dye destroyed by heat) or lighter-colored plastic in-fill, e.g. current Cherry G80
* two-shot / doubleshot molding (most expensive and most durable, e.g. old black Focus, NeXT, older dark Cherry POS boards)
Maybe go through the various Wiki articles on the subject if you haven't yet.
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i have read the wiki. intrestingly my das is fine. i got a little excited that it wasn't, but it is. the adesso and filco were worn already after this much use. of course there is the argument that i ruined them with coatings. the adesso was going to wear off pretty quickly anyways. i imagine the filco would last longer had i not messed with it.
lasering seems like it works for me. which, i think you are correct. the old boards were probably lasered not printed.