geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 18:47:23

Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 18:47:23: Hello, I lurked this site last night because lately I've been looking to order a mechanical keyboard for myself. I figured I'd join up and ask about which keyboard to get. I used to post under the name of Afrodisiac on Overclock.net so it's nice seeing some familiar faces here (got banned though).

What I'm looking for:

1- Switches
Something good for gaming, like Cherry MX Black switches. However, I'd say my usage is about half and half (half gaming, half typing). Summer is hardcore game time but I don't exactly play 8 hours a day with a salary for most of the year. That got me thinking that I should get something more friendly for typing. I've tried understanding some of the terms like tactile feedback and came to the conclusion that Cherry MX Browns might be suitable. Also, I read that a Cherry MX White is a Brown with some Black properties so would that be ideal for a gaming/typing hybrid? I'm currently using a Logitech G15 v2 (yes, laugh at me - I figured the LCD and backlighting would be useful for gaming, but oddly enough, after buying it, I realised that I mostly look at my monitor when I game).

2- Budget
Something not unreasonably expensive. I'd love to get a Deck Legend or the Filco tenkeyless NKRO but over $100 is a stretch. If you can convince me that spending $160 on a Deck Legend would be a very smart choice concerning future purchases and overall satisfaction, I have no qualms about buying it but the less I pay, the happier I am. Is $80 a reasonable budget?

3- Features
Tenkeyless and NKRO, and a PS2 connection. I don't really care about backlighting. I just want a solid, simple keyboard. It doesn't have to be tenkeyless, but I really love the tenkeyless style, and have never used the number pad on any of my keyboards in my life. Also, a good layout would be nice. To be honest, I'll use anything that's put in front of me because I'm not a picky guy, but I don't want to spend money and then realise I bought a shoddy-layout keyboard (like from what I read, the Steelseries 7G and 6Gv2 appear to be).

I don't like buying used stuff but if it is my best option, I'll go for it.

Thanks for your time,
gr1m
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 19:00:16: I did. It wasn't even for a dramatic reason. I just like dropping the f-bomb and the infractions stacked up.

About tenkeyless, I'm not lacking desk space so I can use a full keyboard. If removing tenkeyless from my requirements increases the choices I have, then I'll live without tenkeyless.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 19:24:55: How many people would recommend that I dish out the $120 for a Filco?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Tue, 08 June 2010, 19:57:01: I personally feel like the blacks are too stiff.

Blues are perfect for typing but the clickiness can be a negative for gaming.

Browns are satisfactory for typing and IMO the best for gaming. To me they're more linear than tactile. (i.e. similar to blacks but lighter, with a tiny bump to 'push' through)

Is noise a concern? If not I'd get a Filco blue tenkeyless and if it's too clicky then get a 'cheaper' cherry brown switch board, or trade it for a Filco brown.

One benefit of the Filco boards is that they tend to hold their resale and are very trade-able if you decide a particular switch is not for you.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 08 June 2010, 19:57:26: Give me $100 for my tenkeyless Cherry black TG3 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9814). Just like a red Deck tenkeyless; made by the same OEM.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kriminal on Tue, 08 June 2010, 20:18:11: cherry blacks are really great for gaming, browns are a good middle ground, typing on blacks currently...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 20:38:21: Quote from: SpatiallyAware;191093
I personally feel like the blacks are too stiff.

Blues are perfect for typing but the clickiness can be a negative for gaming.

Browns are satisfactory for typing and IMO the best for gaming. To me they're more linear than tactile. (i.e. similar to blacks but lighter, with a tiny bump to 'push' through)

Is noise a concern? If not I'd get a Filco blue tenkeyless and if it's too clicky then get a 'cheaper' cherry brown switch board, or trade it for a Filco brown.

One benefit of the Filco boards is that they tend to hold their resale and are very trade-able if you decide a particular switch is not for you.

So if your yearly life broke down into 20% gaming and 80% schoolwork/general usage, you would get MX Blues?

I'm neutral about clickiness (although my environment has no noise restrictions). I don't see how clickiness can be a con for gaming though. If anything, I can clearly hear when I accidentally release a key (although, with my headphones on and the guns blazing, I can't hear anything outside of the game). Do blue switches have a tactile bump as well as clicking? Or are those the browns?

Also, since all I've used in my life are rubber-domed Logitech keyboards, I doubt a Cherry MX Blue keyboard would be as bad at gaming as the rubber-dome ones. I hate it when one of the buttons on my G15 just decides to stop being pressed (like when I'm walking forward in a game and then just stop moving even though my finger is firmly on the w key). I'm sure any mechanical keyboard will fix that.

And, good to hear about the Filcos. Looks like they're worth the money.

Quote from: ricercar;191094
Give me $100 for my tenkeyless Cherry black TG3 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9814). Just like a red Deck tenkeyless; made by the same OEM.

Backlit, PS2, NKRO, tenkeyless, Cherry MX Blacks? Mmmmm. I'm tempted, but since it would cost me $20 more new and I'm already plunking down $100, I would prefer to buy new.

Quote from: kriminal;191097
cherry blacks are really great for gaming, browns are a good middle ground, typing on blacks currently...

So I think it boils down to Browns for more gaming/less typing and Blues for more typing/less gaming (Blacks would be ultimate gaming/no typing, right?). What about the Cherry Whites and Reds? How "bad" are blacks for typing? Are they uncomfortable, or require a learning curve?

I'm finding the tenkeyless otaku Filco boards attractive. They're so new and alien to me.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: quadibloc on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:08:23: There were under-$100 mechanical switch keyboards out there. My understanding, though, is that tactile feedback is best for typing, and linear switches are best for gaming.

So that seems to mean two keyboards, and your budget is shot right there. But others have pointed out there are some switches that occupy the middle ground.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:14:44: What I'm worried about is people saying Cherry Blues shouldn't be bottomed out. Will not bottoming keys be hard to get used to? I can't imagine not bottoming keys out when I'm gaming.

Quote from: ripster;191116
Hmmm..... ProAdvantage does not allow returns it seems like. Maybe you can find a retailer of the Addesso (n-key Cherry Blue) (http://www.provantage.com/adesso-mkb-135b~4ADES09P.htm) that will.

I think Filco (or any other manufacturer) could make a killing if they offered switch trade-ins. Buy an NKRO Tenkeyless Cherry Blue Filco, and if you don't like it, switch it for the same keyboard with Cherry Browns.

However, I sense that by going this in depth into keyboards, it's similar to entering the world of audiophiles; I'll eventually reach a point where I'll spend $100s a month on new keyboards and never be satisfied with any. I avoided becoming an audiophile by finding out enough about audio to get the best headphones for the money, and then reverting to my old ignorance-is-bliss self and being satisfied with them. I'm planning on doing something similar with mechanical keyboards. Learn enough to make a good choice and then forget what I learned and enjoy it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: isp on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:17:19: haha, is your name Sean by any chance?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:19:27: Hey, nice to see you here!

Really is a pity OCN banned you, is it permanent?

Anyway, I was in your shoes when I bought my first mechanical, and I've found the Browns to be a fantastic switch. The problem with the Blues is that the activation point isn't in the same place as the deactivation point, so you cant hover over it and rapidly tap out presses.

While the Filco might be out of your price range, there a few other very nice Cherry Brown keyboards our there by Cherry and Compaq, as long as you don't mind used.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:20:10: No, my name is Sevag. Style of gamer? Hardcore FPS. Name a multiplayer FPS and I play it. Tense moments when I'm hunched over the keyboard, sweating with concentration and getting a 25-kill streak. If I press a key during a gaming session, you bet your ass it's gonna be slammed down. I've transcended the level of smashing my keyboard out of anger, but I'm definitely a rough user.

Thanks Brodie. Yes, it is. I thought I was a valued member after getting my 598th rep point but they banned my ass! No biggie. Good information, I think I'm definitely going with the Cherry Browns. The Filco is out of my range, but if it will be a good decision to increase my range to buy a Filco, I have no qualms. I'd rather buy the best than get something cheaper and regret it forever.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:21:06: Hey Afro, you won't remember me, I was a noob when you got banned, now I'm at 5k posts and the new PSU guru. 'Sup?

There's the ABS M1, Adesso MKB-125B, MKB-135B, iOne Scorpius M10, Unicomp Customizer and variants, the Cherry G80-3000, occasional G80-8200 boards, G84-4100 boards, the GeekHack space saver, the I-Rocks KR-6230, and a few odds and ends.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:21:56: Btw, are you touch typing?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:23:32: With regard to bottoming out, it is odd at first, and you're going to bottom out anyway while gaming, bit you can get used to it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:24:20: I type with my two index fingers but I'm planning on putting this eternally long summer to good use and learning how to type properly. I don't know if that's touch typing or not.

Phaedrus, I remember you. 5k posts eh, I would congratulate you but I need a rep number first :p They never made me a guru of anything, although the only area of expertise that I did qualify for was trolling, and being permanently banned is kind of like being a Trolling Guru. Just kind of.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:28:09: As an OCN n00b, you wont remember me, but I do remember your trippy-ass avatar.

What was the name of the little Compaq that had the numpad, but a smaller layout? Cherry Browns... MX11800 or something?

EDIT!: Those ones!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:29:14: Quote from: Brodie337;191129
As an OCN n00b, you wont remember me, but I do remember your trippy-ass avatar.

EDIT!: Those ones!

http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/bunchie/

Knock yourself out! My collection.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:34:46: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87mnpek

My gut says to buy that but should I really get an Otaku? I'm not sure if I will have "Oh shi- I wish I bought the damn labelled keyboard!" moments.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:38:41: Buy both!

Well, thats what I did... I bought the blank caps with the normal 'board.

The Otaku WILL force you to learn to touch type, and although its a pain at first, it looks awesome.

Om the flipside, you can always buy blank keys later.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:46:51: Also, I do touch-type (now that I figured out what it meant). Even though I use my two index fingers, I know where my buttons are. I did not look at my keyboard once to type this post. The Otaku just looks too badass. Tenkeyless + Otaku = BAMFnation. $29 shipping to Canada though... seriously? A $120 keyboard will now cost me $150. Joy.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:51:23: Hey, try shipping one to Australia... Thats fun. Spend enough time on here and you'll stop thinking about the money, trust me.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:53:42: That's what I'm scared of :p

So, all in favor of me buying an Otaku Cherry Brown tenkeyless NKRO Filco Majestouch, replacing my ****ty Logitech G15 with it and exploding from the sheer awesomeness of the Filco?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 21:57:37: Quote from: Brodie337;191140
Hey, try shipping one to Australia... Thats fun. Spend enough time on here and you'll stop thinking about the money, trust me.

From Canada, that's around 20-25 bucks (the really slow way - rowboat post as I call it)

USA to Canada is frustrating. $29 sounds like at-cost USPS Priority to me. The frustration is because a keyboard is too large and heavy for First Class.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:06:28: Quote from: gr1m;191128
I type with my two index fingers but I'm planning on putting this eternally long summer to good use and learning how to type properly. I don't know if that's touch typing or not.

Phaedrus, I remember you. 5k posts eh, I would congratulate you but I need a rep number first :p They never made me a guru of anything, although the only area of expertise that I did qualify for was trolling, and being permanently banned is kind of like being a Trolling Guru. Just kind of.

649 rep. :)

I'm one infraction away from a ban (I'm a potty mouth as well), but they won't infract me because I'm so helpful. :p
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:11:25: That's what I said before I got the boot. But then again, I did bypass the swear filter with the word "****".

Now I'm stuck in a rut. I was excited about the Filco but reality just hit me. Am I really about to spend $150 on a keyboard?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:18:04: Quote from: gr1m;191147
That's what I said before I got the boot. But then again, I did bypass the swear filter with the word "****".

Now I'm stuck in a rut. I was excited about the Filco but reality just hit me. Am I really about to spend $150 on a keyboard?

Yes.

How much time do you spend in direct physical contact with your CPU?

And how much time do you spend in contact with your keyboard and mouse?

My rule of thumb is that 30-50% of any computer budget should be spent on peripherals, unless you already have good ones or have a really pressing need for more under the hood. Or unless you get a great deal. Point is, peripherals are important and keyboards are no exception.

At least you're not spending it on a G19, right?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:22:57: Damnit, you're right. I upgraded to a Logitech G500 a few days ago, and a 24" monitor is in the mail. The G500 was God-sent. I started rediscovering the joys of my PC.

So, I'm buying the Filco. But first, I'll try selling this G15 v2. It still costs $136 in retail stores so I'll sell it local. If I make $100 from the sale, then I'll lose all faith in humanity. However, the money recuperated from selling my old monitor and G15 should make up for the $150 Filco.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:26:45: The G500 is a nice mouse, no denying it. :)

I got a great deal on a Cherry G80-8200, $35 shipped NIB. The guy is still selling them for $38 shipped. Great keyboards, but uuuuuuugggglllyyyyy. That's U-G-L-Y. But I don't mind. We're a matching pair. :)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:28:12: I was reluctant to move to laser sensors (OG Deathadder > your mother) but the features and support of Logitech mice were attractive. Then the laser sensor in the G500 and G9x proved to be as good as any optical in tests so I had no qualms about getting one.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:28:35: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;191148
How much time do you spend in direct physical contact with your CPU?

For most people, none.

It probably wouldn't work too well if operated without the HSF being present (as would be necessary to be in direct physical contact with it).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:31:00: Quote from: kishy;191155
For most people, none.

It probably wouldn't work too well if operated without the HSF being present (as would be necessary to be in direct physical contact with it).

I probably hold the record there, since I spent about two weeks gently fondling my Q9550 and spending time with my E2200 before I got around to installing it. But it was in a plastic sleeve, so maybe that doesn't count.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 08 June 2010, 22:52:44: No one recommends these anymore?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mechanical-key-switch-Keyboard-USB-PS-2-/180342664978?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item29fd42af12

Scorpius m10's are still the cheapest mechanical with blue cherry's I've seen. They're down to like $40 on some sites I've noticed. Maybe not perfect for gaming, not sure what the n-key rollover is, but it's a cheap mechanical, and good for typing.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Nonmouse on Tue, 08 June 2010, 23:07:33: Quote from: chimera15;191160
No one recommends these anymore?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Scorpius-M10-Mechanical-key-switch-Keyboard-USB-PS-2-/180342664978?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item29fd42af12

Scorpius m10's are still the cheapest mechanical with blue cherry's I've seen. They're down to like $40 on some sites I've noticed. Maybe not perfect for gaming, not sure what the n-key rollover is, but it's a cheap mechanical, and good for typing.

That's the problem. It's not that it has a low price point- it's that it's cheap. Crappy soldering, so many (most?) have switches fail either out of the box or within a few months of use. They keep claiming to have fixed the QC issues, but people keep reporting the same problems. Here's (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=72528&postcount=30) some pics- and keep in mind that this is a good M10 board...

They're good for harvesting blues, if you have another board you want to convert, but that's about all I'd recommend 'em for....
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 08 June 2010, 23:13:03: Quote from: Nonmouse;191165

That's the problem. It's not that it has a low price point- it's that it's cheap. Crappy soldering, so many (most?) have switches fail either out of the box or within a few months of use. They keep claiming to have fixed the QC issues, but people keep reporting the same problems. Here's (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=72528&postcount=30) some pics- and keep in mind that this is a good M10 board...

They're good for harvesting blues, if you have another board you want to convert, but that's about all I'd recommend 'em for....

Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

Not to say such maintenance should be necessary on a brand new purchase but...someone so inclined could do that.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Nonmouse on Tue, 08 June 2010, 23:28:31: Quote from: kishy;191166
Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

Not to say such maintenance should be necessary on a brand new purchase but...someone so inclined could do that.

I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard bad things- the solder is a very high-melting mix, and the traces tend to pop off the board about as often as the joints fail, requiring jumpers to fix. Like I said, about the only thing I'd do with an M10 is strip the switches.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 09 June 2010, 00:56:40: Quote from: kishy;191166
Is it possible to correct the poor soldering job by simply "re-flowing" the solder joints (melt them so they re-set)?

That's What I did to my second Scorpius M10. the traces are all intact and Keys are all operational every time. Unlike before the fix. If there were any hi-temp solder problems, I didn't notice them.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 11:27:44: Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: obsolete on Wed, 09 June 2010, 11:30:49: youre buying a keyboard, not a house
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ironman31 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 11:48:26: Quote from: gr1m;191272
Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?

Idk, filcos are pretty sturdy little boards. The only thibg that might feel a little cheap are the keycaps (they do to me at least)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Wed, 09 June 2010, 11:54:06: You said you're doing more typing, less gaming. It sounds like you decided on the browns.
You could try winning the ebay White Otaku: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250645982516&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
If you're really worried about money, you can pick up the last ugly http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310225081410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , like Phaedrus recommended.

Get what you want. This is going to be your keyboard for the next couple of decades. Make yourself be the extra $50 frugal for a month or two, to make it up to yourself, if you're worried about it.

Filcos are a solid board. I agree the keycaps are a little flimsy. Plus, my brand new otaku key caps had scuff marks. I suspect the coating is to blame. I do like the texture of them, though. Smooth yet not slippery.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: apachi1 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 12:54:51: if ur out of germany there is still a steelseries 7g to catch for 71

look for used stuff ive never made bad experiences with it , at least yet
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: obsolete on Wed, 09 June 2010, 13:15:22: Quote from: ripster;191278
would that be considered useful advice at ocn?
IF IT GLOWED

ps. whats with it changing my posts to lower case? even the quote
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 13:27:21: Quote from: washuai;191283
You said you're doing more typing, less gaming. It sounds like you decided on the browns.
You could try winning the ebay White Otaku: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250645982516&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
If you're really worried about money, you can pick up the last ugly http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310225081410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT , like Phaedrus recommended.

Get what you want. This is going to be your keyboard for the next couple of decades. Make yourself be the extra $50 frugal for a month or two, to make it up to yourself, if you're worried about it.

Filcos are a solid board. I agree the keycaps are a little flimsy. Plus, my brand new otaku key caps had scuff marks. I suspect the coating is to blame. I do like the texture of them, though. Smooth yet not slippery.

Next couple of decades eh? I guess membrane keyboards ruined me and that's probably why I'm having trouble with this purchase. Keyboards so far have been replaceable pieces of **** that cost me about $40 each replacement, that last about a year. Mechanical keyboards seem like a whole new ballgame.

If I'm really looking to keep it for decades, should I look for something better since the Filcos have flimsy keycaps? A full-sized Deck Legend maybe? I can't help but think that if I am keeping something for decades, or at least more than 2 years, I might regret not having the extra 10 keys or labelled keys, so maybe Otaku and tenkeyless are not as great as I thought.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Wed, 09 June 2010, 13:40:20: Why aren't Model Ms considered usable for FPS gaming?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: obsolete on Wed, 09 June 2010, 13:44:31: Quote from: gr1m;191272
Should I even consider the Steelseries options to save money? Or should I go with the Filco Browns? I don't like the weird layout decisions of the 7G, which are fixed slightly in the 6Gv2. I also read somewhere here that a user felt that the Steelseries boards felt more solid than Filco Majestouch boards. If I can pick a 6Gv2 up for $60, should I do it?

Quote from: obsolete;191274
youre buying a keyboard, not a house

Quote from: ripster;191278

Would that be considered useful advice at OCN?

all im saying is its $60, not a mil
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Wed, 09 June 2010, 14:09:14: Quote from: Shawn Stanford;191318
Why aren't Model Ms considered usable for FPS gaming?

They are usable. For some people they are too tiring. For other people depending on the game, they have blocking on some key combinations. For others they are too loud. For the black obsessed, M13s are not that common.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 14:12:55: My Model M was fine for gaming, just loud. It's been relegated to my workshop rig, where the NMB 4000RPM fan in my Zippy PSU renders the loudness of the board irrelevant.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 15:04:08: *whiny voice*

What the **** do I buyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I won't lie, this is more confusing than when I dabbled into audiophilia to buy headphones. What to spend, what brand is the best, etc.

OK, to recap what I got from this thread so far:

- Spend more than $100 because you will get a quality board with no compromise that you can use for decades

- Cherry MX Browns for a gaming/typing combo

- PS2 and NKRO are musts

- Maybe not tenkeyless to increase my options

- Filco has flimsy keycaps but it's not too much of a big deal
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: nijikon5 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 15:16:43: I'm a gamer first and been FPS gaming for over 14 years. If you're a hardcore FPS gamer, go with the blacks ( or get reds if you have family in China like me :P ). Yeah, blacks "suck" for typing, but I honestly don't mind using my Filco or 7G ( Yes, I have two cherry black KBs :D ). If you aren't worried too much about the layout, the 7G is on sale at ESEA's online store for 115ish. You can also wait for the 6Gv2, supposed to be $100 with a better layout too. I've used Browns and Blues too, I just prefer Linear switches for gaming ( and so do my RL FPS buddies ). Browns are a decent balance though, the feel of blacks don't bother me, but I understand why it can bother a lot of people ( I'm using my reds full time now and it does feel better for typing ). I wouldn't get blues if you're serious about FPS, it's just the way the switch feels, can't do presses as fast as I can on linears. I have to fully release the key instead of letting my finger sit on it.

If you care about gaming first, get the blacks.

If you care about gaming, but something a bit more comfortable to type on get the browns.

If you ask A/S/L on yahoo chat all day like ripster, blues please!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 18:03:51: What are reds like?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 18:26:21: Reds are a rare beast, and from what I've gathered, are incredibly light, with no tactile bump to speak of.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Nonmouse on Wed, 09 June 2010, 18:36:30: They're a light-weight linear. Blacks that require less force.
Title: Re: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: HaaTa on Wed, 09 June 2010, 18:38:06: MX Reds :D
Lighter than browns (not by much though). Very smooth.
Great for games, though if you're not careful, accidental key strokes happen.
I like it for general typing, not as much for coding (buckling springs are my favourite for that).

Unfortunately hard to get, and retailers have stopped advertising online them in Japan. Still in stock in various places in Akihabara though.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 19:08:59: Cherry never ceases to create something amazing, then withdraw it from the market as soon as someone starts showing interest in it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:11:32: Your Nostromo is a magnum opus, ripster. Kudos again and again, even if I forget to say so out loud.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:13:25: I still prefer using a bog-standard keyboard to any funky gamepad arrangement (and by bog-standard I mean no macros or extra keys). I'm reading other threads now and people are calling Cherry Browns light. How light are we talking? How will it compare to a rubber-dome G15?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:22:10: I'm not sure how heavy the G15 is, but my Cherry browns feel similar to or lighter than most rubber domes I've used.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:23:55: Uh. This changes things. I don't want something as light as a rubber-dome. I want a steel tank of a keyboard that'll dissuade mortal humans from coming near my computer. I guess that means Black Cherries?

However, will my fingers fall off if I type too much using blacks?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:58:03: There's always buckling springs. A Unicomp Spacesaver (basically a Model M without the ginormous bezel) may be just what you need, though it lacks the NKRO that is so great for gaming. But to be honest, NKRO isn't a *huge* benefit. The IBM matrix is good enough for games, because most combos that are blocked are ridiculously difficult to hit except on purpose.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: nijikon5 on Wed, 09 June 2010, 21:03:23: Quote from: gr1m;191474
I still prefer using a bog-standard keyboard to any funky gamepad arrangement (and by bog-standard I mean no macros or extra keys). I'm reading other threads now and people are calling Cherry Browns light. How light are we talking? How will it compare to a rubber-dome G15?

If your fingers fall off from typing with blacks, you might just die from breathing too hard.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 21:05:44: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;191499
There's always buckling springs. A Unicomp Spacesaver (basically a Model M without the ginormous bezel) may be just what you need, though it lacks the NKRO that is so great for gaming. But to be honest, NKRO isn't a *huge* benefit. The IBM matrix is good enough for games, because most combos that are blocked are ridiculously difficult to hit except on purpose.

Hm. $69 for the PS2 black/silver 104-key model. Not too shabby.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 09 June 2010, 21:07:49: Quote from: nijikon5;191500
If your fingers fall off from typing with blacks, you might just die from breathing too hard.

Lol, well, to be fair, I have 0 experience with mechanical switches and I just can't wrap my mind around them. It seems I still don't understand them. They have nothing to do with force required to press it seems, since that varies enormously. Some don't even have a tactile bump. However, I'm enjoying the description of Cherry blacks the most, and I think that will be my final choice. If my G15 keyboard needs 65g of force if ripster is right and a Cherry black is 60 (although it increases linearly), then I'll definitely survive.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 07:33:15: K, well, I did a complete roundabout and am now back to wanting the Filco NKRO Tenkeyless Brown Majestouch Otaku keyboard, which was my gut desire in the first place. Anybody know where I can get blank colored keycaps? I want to replace the WASD with green or yellow buttons.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: aegrotatio on Thu, 10 June 2010, 10:33:47: Quote from: ripster;191504
Here's another idea. Get a CHEAP $10 Chicony KB-5191

Wow, thanks, I just snapped it up.
I'm still pissed off about the Adesso build quality problems.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: lmnop on Thu, 10 June 2010, 10:40:16: Quote from: aegrotatio;191644
Wow, thanks, I just snapped it up.
I'm still pissed off about the Adesso build quality problems.

did you RMA it?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: aegrotatio on Thu, 10 June 2010, 10:42:44: Quote from: lmnop;191649
did you RMA it?

I have a year. I'm breaking it in for science!!

Speaking of cheap Cherries, anyone have a lead for other really cheap Cherry clone or real Cherry keyboards of the Black and Brown types (and are not used P.O.S. terminal keyboards)?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 11:00:53: Hm. I must allocate $50 of my keyboard funds to a preorder of Fallout New Vegas.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 11:28:45: I'm picking RDR up when it releases for the PC.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ihatelolcats on Thu, 10 June 2010, 13:26:43: ripster, not to hijack the thread, but did you write up what you did to this http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10446&stc=1&d=1275236477 ?
i decided to get a typing keyboard and a gaming keyboard of some kind, and that looks pretty sick for gaming.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Thu, 10 June 2010, 13:49:11: I limit my preorders per year. Unfortunately, I like a lot of niche titles, so those I have to pick up, because they never drop in price, they just disappear. Otherwise, I just wait for a game to drop 50% off release retail. I still own PS2 games that I haven't beaten or mastered, some still in their wrappers, even, so that's extra incentive to hold off for price drops.

I still need to pick this up, for example:
(http://www.bscreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/god-of-war-collection-box-artwork-ps3.jpg)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 14:00:35: I approve of this hijacking since I got all the help I needed.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 14:25:47: I'm serious about the colored keycaps though, any ideas where to get them from? Blank colored keycaps. My plan for the Filco NKRO tenkeyless Cherry Brown Otaku:

- Red ESC button (included)
- Any color WASD cluster (blue, green, yellow)
- Any color Start Menu keycaps
- Spacebar

So, for example:
Red ESC button, green WASD cluster, yellow Start Menu buttons and a big orange spacebar.

Can I buy a white set of blank keycaps and dye them? Does somebody who normally dies keycaps want to sell me some?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ihatelolcats on Thu, 10 June 2010, 15:02:51: Quote from: gr1m;191717
I'm serious about the colored keycaps though, any ideas where to get them from? Blank colored keycaps. My plan for the Filco NKRO tenkeyless Cherry Brown Otaku:

- Red ESC button (included)
- Any color WASD cluster (blue, green, yellow)
- Any color Start Menu keycaps
- Spacebar

So, for example:
Red ESC button, green WASD cluster, yellow Start Menu buttons and a big orange spacebar.

Can I buy a white set of blank keycaps and dye them? Does somebody who normally dies keycaps want to sell me some?

i think this may be more your style
http://www.amazon.com/First-Keyboard-Califone-Bright-Color/dp/B000EONVX0

but seriously, i found this
http://www.synctronics.com/contact_us.html
looks like it might be expensive, i think they mainly do bulk orders for companies
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Thu, 10 June 2010, 15:23:40: Well, if you're very patient there's ClickClack (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9456). PM him.
Email Elite Keyboards about lavendar WASD availability or a full blank white set of Filco Caps . .
Signature Plastics could help, but you pretty much buy in bulk.
Similar story with Fentek (http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm) and I think the start menu keys are out.
Too low profile (http://www.xkeys.com/accessories/keycaps.php).
Posting a WTB (want to buy) in the classifieds (http://geekhack.org/classifieds.php)won't hurt.
Just don't place your WTB in the For Sale, like Ricercar.
I was looking for the Asian KBC keys (which also don't include start menu keys), but I didn't find them fast enough for this post.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Nonmouse on Thu, 10 June 2010, 15:33:43: Quote from: gr1m;191717
I'm serious about the colored keycaps though, any ideas where to get them from? Blank colored keycaps. My plan for the Filco NKRO tenkeyless Cherry Brown Otaku:

- Red ESC button (included)
- Any color WASD cluster (blue, green, yellow)
- Any color Start Menu keycaps
- Spacebar

So, for example:
Red ESC button, green WASD cluster, yellow Start Menu buttons and a big orange spacebar.

Can I buy a white set of blank keycaps and dye them? Does somebody who normally dies keycaps want to sell me some?
Well, there are these (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:9519) guys from SMC Electronics (http://www.smcelectronics.com/swkey.htm) (hey, they're just a bit down the road- I may have to go visit the brick and mortar!), but they're low profile (lower even than the Filco, IIRC), and not sculpted for each row. On the pro side, they're pretty inexpensive...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 10 June 2010, 23:42:55: Ripster, your write-up (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5603) helped solidify my decision even more. I doubt I can go wrong with a Filco tenkeyless brown.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: aegrotatio on Fri, 11 June 2010, 11:15:35: Speaking of cheap Cherry keyboards, anyone have a lead for other really cheap Cherry clone or real Cherry keyboards of the Black and Brown types (and are not used P.O.S. terminal keyboards)?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 12 June 2010, 17:57:34: I am a step closer to obtaining Filco funds; I got off my fat ass and listed my monitor for sale on Kijiji. I would list it on the forums but since I only do local pickup for most items, I figure it'll be pointless.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Sat, 12 June 2010, 18:18:55: Wow, it usually takes longer for a Geekhacker to start selling stuff to satisfy their keyboard addiction. Welcome to to long and slippery slope that is life as a keyboard enthusiast.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 12 June 2010, 19:11:06: Quote from: Brodie337;192536
Wow, it usually takes longer for a Geekhacker to start selling stuff to satisfy their keyboard addiction. Welcome to to long and slippery slope that is life as a keyboard enthusiast.

I shall resist! I WILL BUY THE MAJESTOUCH AND NEVER BUY ANOTHER KEYBOARD AGAIN! I AM RESILIENT!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 12 June 2010, 20:05:26: That was fast. Potential buyer already :/

Anybody think I should try to get my hands on s Cherry Red keyboard?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 22 June 2010, 23:43:30: New potential source of worry. So I was talking to one of my noob-gamer-membrane-keyboard-etc. friends (just like me) and he said he tried a mechanical and didn't like it and that it felt like ****. It had Cherry Blacks, I think it was one of those cheap Cherry boards.

Should I be worried?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 22 June 2010, 23:57:37: It's linear. Your friend's description is accurate, you have nothing to be worried about.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:00:12: I reckon cherry blacks feel like crap, mainly because you need manly-ass fingers, and I'l a little attached to my tactile bump... Don't fear, the Browns will serve you well!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Zalusithix on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:02:55: Quote from: gr1m;195619
New potential source of worry. So I was talking to one of my noob-gamer-membrane-keyboard-etc. friends (just like me) and he said he tried a mechanical and didn't like it and that it felt like ****. It had Cherry Blacks, I think it was one of those cheap Cherry boards.

Should I be worried?

Look at this forum, and see how opinions differ between people on which switch is the best. What some people love, others detest. Your friend's experience has absolutely no relevance to your own. His might have been a crap board, or he might just prefer 'domes. Either way, you wont know until you try. It's like asking somebody for their opinion on a type of food that you've never had.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:11:19: I guess. But imagine you and a bunch of guys eat burgers and enjoy them. Greasy burgers. And then one day, you hear about filet mignon. It's gonna cost you a fortune. One of the guys says "Oh, I coughed up the money for a filet mignon and it wasn't good."

You're right, it doesn't mean that I will dislike the filet mignon, but I think I should consider the possibility that I might not like the filet mignon based on the similarities between the tastes of me and the other guy who dislikes it. $130 is quite a gamble for a product that I might not like.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:17:30: "cheap cherry board" though isn't specific enough. I mean, there are cheap cherry rubber domes, even. Age of the board, use, etc. make a difference. You need to know if your friend tried filet mignon or filet of unknown or past use date filet mignon, etc.
Yea, odds are if your friend popped a cap and it had a black switch, even if new, then it was a stiff black linear switch.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Zalusithix on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:24:38: Quote from: gr1m;195627
I guess. But imagine you and a bunch of guys eat burgers and enjoy them. Greasy burgers. And then one day, you hear about filet mignon. It's gonna cost you a fortune. One of the guys says "Oh, I coughed up the money for a filet mignon and it wasn't good."

You're right, it doesn't mean that I will dislike the filet mignon, but I think I should consider the possibility that I might not like the filet mignon based on the similarities between the tastes of me and the other guy who dislikes it. $130 is quite a gamble for a product that I might not like.

Eh, life's a gamble. Even with everybody saying something is great, there's always the chance that you wont like it. (That and in the case of food, there's always the chance that what you get at one point isn't the best representative of the food. Or the cooking of it was sub-par...)

In the very least, the money spent will allow you to have a baseline experience even if you don't like it. You can then resell it, recoup some of the cost, and set out to find something that you do like with that experience in hand. Right now you don't have anything else to compare to other than the lowest common denominator (cheap domes), so having at least one mechanical board will allow you to better grasp how the other types are.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 23 June 2010, 00:34:19: Quote from: washuai;195629
"cheap cherry board" though isn't specific enough. I mean, there are cheap cherry rubber domes, even. Age of the board, use, etc. make a difference. You need to know if your friend tried filet mignon or filet of unknown or past use date filet mignon, etc.
Yea, odds are if your friend popped a cap and it had a black switch, even if new, then it was a stiff black linear switch.

I meant cheap Cherry like those Cherry-branded boards that sell for $30. The switches were Cherry Blacks like I mentioned.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Oqsy on Wed, 23 June 2010, 01:12:32: I'm guessing your friend MIGHT have tried ML switches and not MX.

Cherry ML switches are black, low-profile, and not often considered in the same class as the MX switches. Did the stem of the switch from above look like + or did it look like | |

The ML boards are often sold much cheaper than the MX boards, but you can always find exceptions... Some boards that are pretty common on this site are listed on ebay for over $500 on a regular basis, so my theory that he has MLs and not MXs could be dead wrong.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 23 June 2010, 01:20:31: http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/559872-cherry-g81-7000-resource-thread.html

These are the ones. You're right, they're not Cherry MXes. My friend was mistaken.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 23 June 2010, 01:31:50: So I guess the Filco Tenkeyless NKRO Brown MX Cherry board is still on my list. I'll order it tomorrow.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Wed, 23 June 2010, 09:57:15: Hello everybody,
I will use this thread as I'm basically looking for the same thing :) I hope it's okay.

Here's my story. For quite a long time I was a laptop-only user running IBM T42. Yes, as all laptops it had a crappy rubber-dome keyboard. However by many people it is considered quite good among the rest of laptops. Two years ago I switched to desktop. And I just wasn't able to find ANY desktop keyboard which would be at least comparable to the T42. In an absolute desperation I recently googled something like "the best keyboard", I don't remember exactly. And guess what :)
At last I ended up here.

So in the last two weeks I've spent considerable amount of time scanning geekhack and some other forums. I've learnt much. Thank you guys for opening my eyes. I'm going mechanical :)

Here's my problem: I need a keyboard for both working and gaming. I would really like to have something like Filco Tenkeyless NKRO with Cherry MX Browns. But as long as I live in the Czech Republic, the shipping would cost me a fortune. I guess about $160 or even more for keyboard and shipping. Which I'm not ready to pay for a keyboard I have no chance to try first. Here in the Czech there is almost impossible to get mechanical keyboard today. And trust me I've searched a lot. However there is one exception.

I found out that my nearest reseller claims he can provide SteelSeries 6Gv2 in two days. It would cost me an equivalent of $84 including tax. No shipping or sending. That's a significant difference. And I can test it before buying. Of course the keyboard itself has its drawbacks. It has MX Blacks which some say are designed for gaming only. They also claim that blacks are too stiff. But what about in comparison to domes? 6Gv2 has really weird layout (well, despite being European I prefer 103-keys US layout so its not as bad as it could be :D ) and it has no palmrest too.

Having Microsoft Wirrr...rubbish Keyboard 600 I also have no experience with mechanicals and therefore I have no comparison. Also being so hyped by you gentlemen there is a risk I can easily fall in love with the first switches I meet, even blacks ;)
So, should I try and eventually buy fulsized keyboard with blacks for gaming and writing or it would be a waste of time (and possibly money) and I should just order short browny Filco?

Thanks for your opinions.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Wed, 23 June 2010, 10:12:09: If the force is the issue, they require more force than domes, generally. Find the force charts on here. Otherwise, some are definitely willing to take blacks over domes. You said you get to test it, so do so.

If writing is more important than gaming, get the browny Filco, without question.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Wed, 23 June 2010, 10:44:18: Thank you for your posts. What i see from that graphs (if that one for the rubber domes is accurate enough) is that for domes you need to overcome significant resistance at first which is bigger than initial resistance of black switch. Then the dome just collapses while black switch linearly increases its resistance all the way down. Am I right?

Well I know I should test the board if I'm considering a purchase. I just wanted to hear if the blacks are completely useless for typing under any circumstances or not. Arc'xer's got the point (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=195539&postcount=5).

My problem with Filco is I can't test it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Wed, 23 June 2010, 16:47:12: All right, seems that graphs and comments won't substitute the actual feeling of the blacks in my decision making. I guess I'll order the 6Gv2 and return it if there was something wrong about it rather than impulsively going to Filco.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 23 June 2010, 19:24:28: I still haven't ruled the 6Gv2 out, but something niggling the back of my mind won't let me buy it instead of a Cherry Brown Filco. I've exhausted the crap out of this but I'm so goddamn torn. How disappointing will blacks be for touch-typing?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 24 June 2010, 22:51:35: I pussied out. I'm getting the 6Gv2. The fact that it lacks the left Windows button and has non-bright LEDs unlike the Filcos sealed the deal. Also, being $50 cheaper helps.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 24 June 2010, 23:22:18: Will do. Learning how to touch type is coming on rather nicely. Other than mixing up fingers occasionally (feels like I'm a guitar newb all over again), I'm doing fine. It's a lot more comfortable than using only my two index fingers I'll have to admit.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: British on Fri, 25 June 2010, 03:16:46: Quote from: xavier;195712
I would really like to have something like Filco Tenkeyless NKRO with Cherry MX Browns. But as long as I live in the Czech Republic, the shipping would cost me a fortune. I guess about $160 or even more for keyboard and shipping.

You don't have to buy in the US...
Check the Keyboard Company (they have a subforum here): about 17€ from UK to Czech Republic (http://www.keyboardco.com/cart/cart.asp?PRODUCT=646) (same in black (http://www.keyboardco.com/cart/cart.asp?PRODUCT=624)).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Fri, 25 June 2010, 06:42:32: Quote from: British;196188
You don't have to buy in the US...
Check the Keyboard Company (they have a subforum here): about 17€ from UK to Czech Republic (http://www.keyboardco.com/cart/cart.asp?PRODUCT=646) (same in black (http://www.keyboardco.com/cart/cart.asp?PRODUCT=624)).

Hey, thanks for the information. I will certainly take this into consideration. However I have already ordered Steelseries 6Gv2 which will actually cost me less than a half in comparison to Filco from UK. And I have a chance to give it back in 14 days if I didn't like it.

Anyways if anything was wrong with the Steelseries, it's good to know about all the possibilities.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 25 June 2010, 07:28:33: Where the heck did you find one? I can't find any for sale in North America. They aren't released yet, apparently.

When you get it, can you share your thoughts on it?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Fri, 25 June 2010, 08:56:29: That's strange. I always thought it's hard to get some specific stuff here in Europe. My reseller claims they can provide me 6Gv2 in two days. At least until now they always could. I've ordered it today. So we'll see this time and I'm really hoping I'll be lucky with this one.

Be sure I'll post my impressions.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: yann3804 on Fri, 25 June 2010, 09:25:35: Quote from: gr1m;196228
Where the heck did you find one? I can't find any for sale in North America. They aren't released yet, apparently.

When you get it, can you share your thoughts on it?

Hi Afrodisiac (Yann3804 from OCN)

I too am living in Montreal and got my filco blue cherries shipped from the US. One thing to notice is that the shipping will cost you $29, but the customs rate will make you pay $20 more. (PST + GST of the keyboard)

It came to $200 all included (that was a while ago) but I think it's worth it. I adore my filco!

And you should also try to check NCIX.com that is based in Vancouver. They got the DAS model S for $109 or something, or bestdirect.com, I can't remember.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 25 June 2010, 16:58:38: Yeah Yann, I can get the Filcos fine, but not the 6Gv2.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 25 June 2010, 22:25:17: Any Metadot Das keyboards that do what I ask? I just heard of that 32% student discount. I looked around Canadistan and there's a mixed jumble of Das Ultimate and Professional with blues and browns and USB hubs oh my.

The good news:
Cherry Browns
NKRO (can I connect the keyboard with PS2 and still use the USB hub?)

The bad news:
I'm not too big of a fan of the styling
Kinda big

The I don't know:
How's the quality?
What's Geekhack's opinion on them?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Sat, 26 June 2010, 03:13:19: DAS and Filco are made by Costar. They're both plate mounted. Aside from the batches that have issues, which have been corrected, the people I know that have DAS, <3 theirs.

If money isn't an issue, it sounds like you'd be happier with the Filco. The smaller size of the Filco is definitely worth it. I'm seriously thinking that I don't want to buy any more full sized boards, ever again. I can end up paying more for a separate keypad, when I have to cross that bridge.
Honestly, if DAS with browns had been in stock, when I got my Filco, I would have got the DAS to save a few clams. It wasn't even a savings anywhere near as good as 32% discount. If Déck hadn't upped their price $19, I might have gotten theirs, because I appreciate their return policy, even if I don't agree with their choice of fonts.
I know now that I prefer blank keys to scratchy laser keys, but DAS does blank. There are DAS reviews, comments et cetera already all over geekhack, they aren't that hard to find.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 26 June 2010, 04:27:43: Money is a bit of an issue. I can make it not be but... I don't want to pay $170 (with shipping and customs fees) for a $121 keyboard. That really bugs me. The Steelseries 7G is easy enough to find at all Canadian etailers so I'm assuming the 6Gv2, once it rears it's ugly head, will be easy to find and buy.

As for the size, that's one reason the keyboard I want (6Gv2) is similar to a Filco in size and all, because I love the complete lack of wasted space (except that it has a numpad, but I won't view it as a con because you never know when you'll need it). As for Steelseries vs. Filco, I know I shouldn't take any random thing I hear on the internet but it can't hurt to get as many issues as possible cleared before the purchase. I read somewhere here (can't remember) a member expressing the opinion that Steelseries keyboards are more solid (or feel more solid) than Filcos. Any truth to this?

In reality, although the 32% off is attractive, I hate the look of the Das enough to know that if I buy it, I'll regret it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 26 June 2010, 08:28:45: Take DAS and spell it backwards. That's a good reason not to buy their junky, faulty keyboards.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: British on Sat, 26 June 2010, 14:29:19: I take it gr1m was referring to the 6Gv2, not the Filco.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Sat, 26 June 2010, 14:45:42: Quote from: gr1m;196547
NKRO (can I connect the keyboard with PS2 and still use the USB hub?

No way. USB Hub works only when connection to PC is USB. Hub or NKRO, not both.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: British on Sat, 26 June 2010, 15:03:52: Quote from: British;196698
I take it gr1m was referring to the 6Gv2, not the Filco.

Oops, looks like I missed a page when I answered that... spank me please.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Sat, 26 June 2010, 15:16:54: Quote from: ricercar;196702
No way. USB Hub works only when connection to PC is USB. Hub or NKRO, not both.

Presumably it could be used by running a second cord and cutting some traces or internal wires (not familiar with the keyboard, but there are only so many ways you can integrate a hub with a device), but that's hardly elegant.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 26 June 2010, 17:16:25: Apparently the DAS has two USB cords. One for the keyboard (which you can convert to PS2), and one for the HUB. That's what it says in the product description.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 26 June 2010, 21:02:00: Quote from: ripster;196726
Somebody post the Das Student Discount code.

I thought you hated discounts, rippy? ;-D

What, trying to game the system? :-D Tsk tsk. I always say 1% of customers will do that to ya. :-D

Pretty sure they're handing them out one unique customer at a time for a good reason. Also pretty sure if they see a ton of requests they're going to ask for verification of student status. They should.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 26 June 2010, 21:04:26: I'd expect them too. Just as well, I have all the information they would need to verify that I'm a university student. How do I get it though? Do I have to buy from them directly? Or does the code apply to any store that sells the Das keyboards?

So, for the Das:
Ultimate is blank keycaps, Professional is labelled, Silent is Cherry Brown, non-Silent is Cherry Blue. So an Ultimate Silent would be what I'm looking for. Does anybody think the look can grow on me? I can get it for the same price as a 6Gv2 with the 32% student discount, I can easily find it in Canada and it has NKRO.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Sun, 27 June 2010, 00:02:06: Quote from: gr1m;196798
I'd expect them too. Just as well, I have all the information they would need to verify that I'm a university student. How do I get it though? Do I have to buy from them directly? Or does the code apply to any store that sells the Das keyboards?

just call or email their support folks, thats what i did.
http://www.daskeyboard.com/contact/ (http://www.daskeyboard.com/contact/)

Tell them you saw the education discount part of the site:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/education-discount-program/ (http://www.daskeyboard.com/education-discount-program/)

and you'd like to take advantage of it and that you have your credentials if they want to see them.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 27 June 2010, 20:40:05: How many of you have had this much trouble deciding what to buy? I'm levitating back to the Filco tenkeyless Otaku Cherry Brown. However, I do not want to pay $50 on top of a $121 keyboard for shipping and customs. Is there ANY way I can avoid this? Maybe find somebody selling one on Ebay?

The only times that I cannot decide what to buy are usually the times when I never was planning on buying the item in the first place and I had just made a thread for the hell of it. Is this really the case? I thought I actually wanted a mechanical keyboard. :(
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ironman31 on Sun, 27 June 2010, 23:19:16: Unless you're willing to wait for one to randomly be sold here, you might have to suck it up and pay the customs. You shouldn't be disappointed, adds a quality piece to your computing experience.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 28 June 2010, 00:58:56: Quote from: ricercar;191094
Give me $100 for my tenkeyless Cherry black TG3 (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9814). Just like a red Deck tenkeyless; made by the same OEM.

After realising how much shipping would cost me if I bought new, was your offer $100 shipped?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:10:26: All right. Steelseries 6Gv2 finally came today. I did have a chance to test it out in the shop before purchase. Well, what can you test if you have about 5 minutes to make a decision in order not to look like nuts? So I concentrated mostly on one thing - were those damned black switches so awful? Since I'm writing this on the 6G they apparently weren't.

Impressions? Yes, this thing IS stiff. But it's way better than I expected. It's definitely usable, you can actually write a text with it and (maybe because you don't have to bottom out) it definitely improves writing speed.

Erm, "not bottoming out" is probably more my feeling than reality. My girlfriend just complained about the clicking...

Of course I can't make a result from an experience lasting just few minutes. I'll give it a week or two and we'll see. Right now it looks more than good.
And yeah, according to current rate it cost me quite reasonable $84 including tax. No shipping.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 28 June 2010, 15:17:27: It sounds like you got a good deal on it. Congrats, glad you like the 'board.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Mon, 28 June 2010, 16:08:59: Thanks. It's still a bit early for conclusions. The 6G has some drawbacks from my point of view. For example the layout is not perfect (I prefer US layout), the blacks are stiff especially for pinkies and the keyboard is surprisingly high. This is probably similar to any mechanical keyboard.

But overall the 6G keyboard is a solid piece of hardware. And in comparison to anything I got so far it's just stunning.

Speaking of height, I could really use a palmrest. Of course it might be just a habit from low profile domes. Any recommendations?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 28 June 2010, 18:55:30: Do you mind sharing where you bought it from? I asked you before and you don't seem to want to give it up.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: randku on Mon, 28 June 2010, 19:17:22: Quote from: gr1m;197051
How many of you have had this much trouble deciding what to buy? I'm levitating back to the Filco tenkeyless Otaku Cherry Brown. However, I do not want to pay $50 on top of a $121 keyboard for shipping and customs. Is there ANY way I can avoid this? Maybe find somebody selling one on Ebay?

The only times that I cannot decide what to buy are usually the times when I never was planning on buying the item in the first place and I had just made a thread for the hell of it. Is this really the case? I thought I actually wanted a mechanical keyboard. :(

I obsessed with it for a while, I thought I wanted blues, then browns, then blues again. I finally decided on the blues solely because I loved the idea of the audio feedback, and I liked the sound itself after listening to a bunch of audio clips.

I had my eyes set on the Filco Otaku 104 key with N key rollover, but I ended up buying the Scorpius M10, because I like tinkering with things, and I decided that if key connections start failing, then I'd turn it into a project, replace the controller and add diodes for N-key rollover.

Then again, I'm pretty much insane. You should probably just go with the Filco. You won't have to invest in another keyboard for YEARS. Remember that. Rubber domes wear out pretty quickly, but mechanical boards will keep working for DECADES.

Newegg has the Irocks with browns for 90 bucks if you want to go for that instead of the Filco. The layout's a bit wonky, but you could save some money by going that route. I'm pretty sure it's n-key.

EDIT: If by any chance you're a student, das offers a 32% discount, and you could grab a silent DAS for ~$90 shipped.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 28 June 2010, 19:42:33: But I think DAS keyboards are ugly. My dilemma is this: I don't want to pay $200 shipped/taxed/customs'd for a $121 Filco, but I want a $121 Filco.

I found a really old for-sale thread here on GeekHack that has a NIB non-Otaku tenkeyless Filco with browns selling for $120 shipped in Canada. I PM'd the guy, wish me luck. Wish me luck that he still has it on him I mean.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: xavier on Tue, 29 June 2010, 01:26:55: Quote from: gr1m;197401
Do you mind sharing where you bought it from? I asked you before and you don't seem to want to give it up.
It's from a local reseller (http://www.czechcomputer.cz/product.jsp?artno=75440) from Prague. I think I've mentioned it.

Edit: AFAIK they don't normally send their goods abroad except for Slovakia.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 29 June 2010, 01:56:42: Alright. The idea of the Das is growing on me more and more.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 29 June 2010, 02:02:01: I'll keep that in mind. I wonder if they sell Filco keyboards at the NYC Asian Escort place.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: chimera15 on Tue, 29 June 2010, 07:50:28: lol Maybe you can get a girl that will wear the keyboard bra at least. lol

(http://www.shinyshiny.tv/angelkitty_1.jpg)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 29 June 2010, 08:26:53: Quote from: gr1m
But I think DAS keyboards are ugly. My dilemma is this: I don't want to pay $200 shipped/taxed/customs'd for a $121 Filco, but I want a $121 Filco.

EKB won't fake customs values so you're left with a tough choice there unless you can find someone who will.

It could be worse. I had convinced a guy in the Philipines to buy a Filco. He wondered how long it would take to get to him. I fed the shipping calculator Wednesday ship to the Philippines (got the city/zip from the guy) from Diamond Bar with the shipped weight (4.6lbs) and exact package size.

[strike]The shipping was more than the keyboard. $136 (he wanted an NKRO Tactile Touch) for Tuesday arrival (International Economy) and $141 for International Priority (arrive Saturday). He said he'd have to think about it because he has to pay customs on top of that.[/strike] EDIT: majestouch got back to me and replied that they use USPS on international shipments, which is a bucketload cheaper ($67 for 2 Tenkeyless', $71 for two 104 key boards to the Philippines).

Despite that, he said he'd have to consider it, but EliteKeyboards may make out better for it- he's considering ordering two.

I told him to come here and see if he can find another person in the Philipines that wants a keyboard. That won't help you on customs (they'd double), but it would probably help tremendously with shipping if shipped in the same box.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 01 July 2010, 06:23:30: Alright, win. My prefered Canadian store, NCIX just listed the 6GV2 for $99 ($107 shipped), backorder (but probably more accurately, preorder). Placing order right now.

I'm excited, this is gonna be my first non-rubber-dome keyboard.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 01 July 2010, 14:05:12: No congrats? Or "At first I saw you considering a Filco and was like YAY, but then I saw you bought a Steelseries and was like **** U"s?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Thu, 01 July 2010, 14:10:05: You chose the blacks for more than the discounted DAS browns - you really don't like the DAS look, eh? Congrats on your first mech board, it should build you some fingers of steel.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 01 July 2010, 14:53:12: I play guitar anyway so I'm willing to wager that my fingers are more than strong enough for Cherry Blacks, and if they aren't, the extra exercise can't hurt. I actually do repetitive finger strength exercises for hours on end. Can't shred without finger strength breskis.

Quote from: washuai;198356
You chose the blacks for more than the discounted DAS browns - you really don't like the DAS look, eh? Congrats on your first mech board, it should build you some fingers of steel.

Yeah. It was an inexplicable hatred. The USB hub bulge + the glossy finish (on a keyboard? seriously) just killed it for me. The Steelseries is minimalist like the Filco which I like. No tenkeyless but on the plus side, I didn't spend $200 on a Filco. Besides, all the posts about how Cherry Browns are not very stiff (less force than rubberdomes, amirite?) kind of made me want to levitate towards blacks so that I could use a veritable tank of a keyboard instead of a soft, comfortable one.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 01 July 2010, 15:59:44: Quote from: gr1m;198386
I play guitar anyway

what do you play? (ie, make and model as well as genre)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 01 July 2010, 23:32:08: Currently rocking an el-cheapo Ibanez. I play metal and neoclassical (Paul Gilbert, Michael Romeo, etc.). The sterile "8 million notes per second" music that people say has no soul because they can't play it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 01 July 2010, 23:36:06: What do you think of {preston reed | kaki king | michael hedges } guitar style?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Thu, 01 July 2010, 23:41:11: Quote from: gr1m;198564
The sterile "8 million notes per second" music that people say has no soul because they can't play it.

lol, i've said that. and yea, i cant play it ;)

I'm a former metal head now mellowed out a bit. My latest love is an el-cheapo gibson melody maker. Absolutely love it even tho its the equivalent of the rubber dome keyboard of the guitar world ;-)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 02 July 2010, 01:59:51: I respect all guitar styles and all guitarists. I don't respect guitarists who don't respect shred. Like Ted Nugent. But Stranglehold wins.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 02 July 2010, 02:16:14: I just bought an el-cheapo Nady wireless system. from Target! lol. Havent tried it yet, but it actually got decent reviews online.
Pairing it with sony infrared wireless headphones running out of my amp. Together, in theory, I should have a completely cordless system that, as a bonus, wont bother my neighbors one bit.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 02 July 2010, 03:10:45: I'm old-fashioned when it comes to equipment. Guitar -> cord -> amp -> air -> ears.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Fri, 02 July 2010, 07:43:32: I'm relatively new to the mechanical keyboard stuff..

I started out with a tenkeyless filco w/ blues

I realized that I didn't like the release point when playing FPS so I bought a tenkeyless w/ blacks.

I hated blacks for everything (way too heavy for typing and IMO for extended FPS gaming) so I bought a tenkeyless with browns.

Browns are awesome for gaming but sorta stink for typing so I bought a 104 key w/ blues (again) for work.

So I then wanted a clicky keyboard at home and thus ended up with a tenkeyless with fukkas. Fukka fukka fukka.

Long story short - IMHO, for 'my style' of gaming, browns are the only decent choice from Filco.

......and I still want another tenkeyless with blues for at home. It's a disease.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 02 July 2010, 08:00:51: Quote from: ricercar;198565
What do you think of {preston reed | kaki king | michael hedges } guitar style?

I love me some Kaki King.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Fri, 02 July 2010, 10:00:32: Quote from: gr1m;198608
I'm old-fashioned when it comes to equipment. Guitar -> cord -> amp -> air -> ears.

ya, i cant afford that (my neighbors would kill me -- try turning up an amp in a manhattan apartment building. I even got complaints about my ibm M keyboards back in the day).

they're doing marvelous things with headphone amps these days though.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Zensuji on Sat, 03 July 2010, 06:03:24: Quote from: SpatiallyAware;198640
I'm relatively new to the mechanical keyboard stuff..

I started out with a tenkeyless filco w/ blues

I realized that I didn't like the release point when playing FPS so I bought a tenkeyless w/ blacks.

I hated blacks for everything (way too heavy for typing and IMO for extended FPS gaming) so I bought a tenkeyless with browns.

Browns are awesome for gaming but sorta stink for typing so I bought a 104 key w/ blues (again) for work.

So I then wanted a clicky keyboard at home and thus ended up with a tenkeyless with fukkas. Fukka fukka fukka.

Long story short - IMHO, for 'my style' of gaming, browns are the only decent choice from Filco.

......and I still want another tenkeyless with blues for at home. It's a disease.

What's wrong with the release point on blues? I'm just trying to decide between brown and blue at the moment (mostly game) I do fully release the key though. It seem like its mostly preference as I keep seeing some prefer blues for gaming and some brown.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Sat, 03 July 2010, 19:49:52: I've a BC Rich Warlock Platinum. I haven't been able to figure the year from the serial number. Guitar Center had their tag wrong, but they honored the $100 less retail price. This one is a year or two before they started putting the locking tremolo's on the platinum warlocks and I forget when they completely removed the tremolo altogether.

I love the guitar, though I definitely would prefer a locking tremolo and it does have a minor fretboard flaw, so I have to seriously clamp down on my bass E string or it will sound wrong. Last I checked the guitar is worth more than I bought it for, so its all gravy to me.

If I was buying a guitar now, I'd probably get a dimebag or a thunderbird, or maybe even a V (well in addition to an acoustic/electric), since it would be easier to handle. I still like having a guitar that's even more monstrous than most bass. I have the BC Rich hard case, though, not the coffin one (only other case that will actually fit it).

Both my amps (the mini Marshall I can clamp to my belt) and the Gorilla a buddy gave me are small & I can attach headphones, so I don't annoy my neighbors. Even though I'd definitely love me a half stack, there just isn't any point. These people freak out, if I leave the bathroom or kitchen fan running. Oh yea, my neighbors that party and either live band or karaoke are tone deaf people with some revolting taste in some kind of bland country crap that makes bad rap sound good. For them, I'd be tempted to hook up and musically harass. My singing isn't much better than theirs though, so I'd probably be better off just getting a real stereo & speakers and scaring them with some Cannibal Corpse. On the flip side, I would pump some opera, while I was at it. However, I actually like the people in my building, so I'd feel bad about torturing them more than the other neighbors.

My favorite music to play is blues (though I'm not good enough), followed by rock, surf, classical and well just about whatever. Most of the time, what I'm playing doesn't really match the metal looks of my guitar.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 03 July 2010, 20:15:06: Quote from: gr1m;198564
Currently rocking an el-cheapo Ibanez. I play metal and neoclassical (Paul Gilbert, Michael Romeo, etc.). The sterile "8 million notes per second" music that people say has no soul because they can't play it.

I play metal whenever I cut down a large tree.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:3a1h9A6J5DJX4M:http://www.gardenlawnmachines.com/full-images/693454.jpg)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 03 July 2010, 20:26:49: I can't stand V guitars. Playing them is so awkward and I could never get used to the "stick one horn between your legs" position. B.C. Rich guitars have dumb shapes but I love the headstocks. I also have a deep dislike for the Dean Dimebag guitars: the Duncan pickup they put in them is not the pickup Dimebag used, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They're milking his name to sell mediocre, overpriced guitars. The only guitars I would ever buy myself are Ibanez Prestiges or Japanese ESPs. Since I already have an el-cheapo, the next step is a not-so-cheapo.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Sat, 03 July 2010, 21:19:25: Quote from: gr1m;199161
I can't stand V guitars. Playing them is so awkward and I could never get used to the "stick one horn between your legs" position. B.C. Rich guitars have dumb shapes but I love the headstocks. I also have a deep dislike for the Dean Dimebag guitars: the Duncan pickup they put in them is not the pickup Dimebag used, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They're milking his name to sell mediocre, overpriced guitars. The only guitars I would ever buy myself are Ibanez Prestiges or Japanese ESPs. Since I already have an el-cheapo, the next step is a not-so-cheapo.

Obviously, owning a warlock, I don't have weird shape or horn between leg issues, but the following is a lot easier to do with a V, than a Warlock in terms of positioning, weight, balance, etc.:
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/second/Header-Dan.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/4107169151_89354c3c43.jpg)

The Duncan pickup is the least of my issues, since they're easy enough to switch. Though I agree about other issues combined with mediocre/overpriced guitars.

The F style ESP is my favorite ESP.

Really, if you really want a guitar, you want a custom guitar from a master craftsman, even if we're talking the "brand" guitars. Not different from knives in that sense.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 03 July 2010, 21:26:32: Yeah but I don't need an $8000 guitar. Whenever I think of buying a new guitar, I pick my current one up and focus so much on playing that I forget all thought (and so I still haven't felt the need to cough up). Some day I'll deem myself worthy enough to deserve a new guitar. I don't like it when people that can't play for **** buy really expensive guitars.

If you sound good on ****ty gear, you'll sound great on good gear.
If you sound ****ty on ****ty gear, you'll always sound ****ty.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 03 July 2010, 21:29:09: Also, I would forgive Dean if the Duncan they used was cheaper than Dimebag's preferred pickup, but Dimebag used Bill Lawrences that are cheaper than the Dimebag Duncans. **** Dean.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Sat, 03 July 2010, 21:55:21: I agree that a learner doesn't need a professional guitar, but if they can afford one and actually hear and feel the difference, I don't mind them buying what would be better off in the hands of a professional.
Same with photographers - if your photos suck with a cheap camera, they'll suck with a good one.

If we're talking violins, that's different. Beginners and even experts can completely **** up a violin depending on what genre of music they play on it.

Yea, that is one great thing about guitar - you've a lot to work with and endless hours of entertainment, even in the inferior products. I've never been able to pull out my guitar for "just 15 minutes" of practice.

Don't need to be an expert typist to benefit from a good keyboard, though. Although, how often you use a keyboard does correlate to returns on those benefits.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Sun, 04 July 2010, 00:00:10: Quote from: washuai
The F style ESP is my favorite ESP.

The F series basses are hotter:
(http://www.espguitars.com/images/basses/f-5e.jpg)

It really is a pity they don't do them in a 6 string (bass, that is).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: aegrotatio on Sun, 04 July 2010, 00:05:31: Sigh.

Computer keyboards, people, not guitars.

Sigh and double-sigh.

Sigh.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Brodie337 on Sun, 04 July 2010, 00:13:08: Quote from: aegrotatio;199241
Sigh.

Computer keyboards, people, not guitars.

Sigh and double-sigh.

Sigh.

This wouldn't be GeekHack if the thread stayed on topic.

On that note... Here's my baby, a Warwick Corvette $$:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11568&d=1278220369)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 04 July 2010, 01:00:59: Quote from: aegrotatio;199241
Sigh.

Computer keyboards, people, not guitars.

Sigh and double-sigh.

Sigh.

Hey, when the OP (yeah me) leads the derailing, there should be no complaints.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 06 July 2010, 14:24:34: I think I'll start signing all my images, too.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11626&stc=1&d=1278444215)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Zalusithix on Tue, 06 July 2010, 14:58:26: Nah, you need to be more aggressive if you're going to mark your images... even a half-assed quick job can undo that level of marking. (Colors aren't perfect, hence half-assed.) Basically, you're wasting your time. If somebody wants something bad enough, all but the most obnoxious watermarking wont help.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11628&stc=1&d=1278446005)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: TexasFlood on Tue, 06 July 2010, 15:10:27: Quote from: Zalusithix;200039
Nah, you need to be more aggressive if you're going to mark your images... even a half-assed quick job can undo that level of marking. (Colors aren't perfect, hence half-assed.) Basically, you're wasting your time. If somebody wants something bad enough, all but the most obnoxious watermarking wont help.

Yup, that's one of the things clone and heal tools were invented for right?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 06 July 2010, 15:29:21: I like where this is going.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 06 July 2010, 16:35:45: Quote from: ripster;200048
Old Skool.

CS5 and use Content Aware Fill.

Hmmmm.....
Show Image
(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2010/4/14/23/adobes-new-content-aware-fill-isnt-good-enough-24405-1271302779-1.jpg)

Hmmmm indeed.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 06 July 2010, 16:39:51: Quote from: ripster;200068
MEANWHILE IN CANADA
Show Image
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6Q0dJUaCE-E/StOqbqxGiaI/AAAAAAAAByM/CsC-Sd1O1qQ/s400/inupiat-eskimo-igloo_438.jpg)

Not quite right.

More like this:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11630&stc=1&d=1278452377)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: lmnop on Tue, 06 July 2010, 17:31:40: the double sheeeeeeeeit

the uber sheeeeeeeeeit

the sheeeeeeeit anthem
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 07 July 2010, 17:32:14: The 6Gv2 is now in stock at NCIX. Means that mine should ship soon. HURRY IT UP FEGETS
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 08 July 2010, 06:38:15: MEANWHILE IN CANADA...

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/shipped.png)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kppanic on Thu, 08 July 2010, 09:38:28: Quote from: ripster;200522
MEANWHILE IN CANADA.....

Show Image
(http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/wp-content/uploads/spotty-seal.jpg)

WTH I google "cheap mechanical keyboard" and the next thing I know I get this???
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 07:36:36: It should be here in a few hours.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 09:12:15: It's here. This feels pretty epic. Anybody who said that Cherry Blacks are hard to type on must have very weak fingers. I must say that the keys feel very smooth. The keys are hard to bottom out, I agree, but it isn't exactly painfully difficult. Also, touch typing feels much more natural on this keyboard than on my G15; is this placebo or are mechanicals supposed to have an immediate typing advantage? I love how compact and solid the keyboard is. All in all, I like it so far.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: BucklingSpring on Tue, 13 July 2010, 10:33:19: Quote from: kppanic;200660
WTH I google "cheap mechanical keyboard" and the next thing I know I get this???

ROFL... Seal hunting with mechanical keyboards was banned few years ago. They probably updated the pictures and forgot to change the keywords.

They said hitting seals with a TVS GOLD was cruel. Not to mention that all the flying keycaps left behind were not ecological.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 11:26:21: I got 33 keys on the N-key test until I ran out of ideas on how to hit more keys without using my face. Safe to conclude that it is in fact NKRO when connected with PS2.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 13 July 2010, 11:53:38: Quote from: gr1m;202233
Anybody who said that Cherry Blacks are hard to type on must have very weak fingers.

(http://imgur.com/AHFeY.jpg)

Seriously, this more applies to extended periods of rapid typing.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Nonmouse on Tue, 13 July 2010, 12:10:35: Quote from: gr1m;202260
I got 33 keys on the N-key test until I ran out of ideas on how to hit more keys without using my face. Safe to conclude that it is in fact NKRO when connected with PS2.

The face is the ultimate test of NKRO. I really don't think we can accept your results without at least one face-mash...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 12:17:18: Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;202265
Show Image
(http://imgur.com/AHFeY.jpg)

Seriously, this more applies to extended periods of rapid typing.

I love that picture. You're probably right, I guess I'll find out when school starts again and I have to write an essay or something.

Quote from: Nonmouse;202268
The face is the ultimate test of NKRO. I really don't think we can accept your results without at least one face-mash...

Aw damn.

Also, the key labels have a texture. Like, they actually pop out of the key. It isn't uncomfortable but it wasn't like that on a G15.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: washuai on Tue, 13 July 2010, 14:07:36: Are the 6VG2 keys texture from pad printing? Is their texture smooth? I'm not big on scratchy laser feel, but still prefer it to print that goes away in 6 months or less. Still double shots ftw. Although, I do really like the blanks.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 14:49:34: It's scratchy so I think it is laser etched. And I didn't realise but after a delicious L4D2 match of versus (first map, we played 4v2, were down by 300 points and the kids on the other team talked plenty of ****, but then we got 2 proper players and ended up winning - mmmm delicious), my fingers actually do feel tired. Still, I love this keyboard.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: phillip on Tue, 13 July 2010, 15:16:39: Quote from: gr1m;202233
Anybody who said that Cherry Blacks are hard to type on must have very weak fingers. I must say that the keys feel very smooth.

i feel the same way

but i've got no other mechanical to compare it to
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: timw4mail on Tue, 13 July 2010, 15:18:45: Quote from: phillip;202316
i feel the same way

but i've got no other mechanical to compare it to

It's the lack of tactile feedback compared to other switches that is the biggest thing.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 15:26:31: Pics (or GTFO right). The last is to demonstrate how much space is wasted on the G15 with gimmicks that I never used once (macros, LCD).

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/rig/IMG_0812.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/rig/IMG_0808.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/rig/IMG_0809.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/rig/IMG_0810.jpg)

(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc158/kugelfangibz/rig/IMG_0811.jpg)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 15:28:08: There's a bunch of false marketing on the included pamphlet. It claims that only the Steelseries G keyboards are pro enough to contain an uber ultimate professional gamer anti-ghosting capability (also known as NKRO and available on many keyboards, lol).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:23:42: That Logitech looks so much like a piece of Chinese crap it ain't even funny.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:36:27: I know right. It feels like one too.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:37:48: I want to get one and run it over with a tractor.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:46:06: There's one definitely kick-ass feature of the Logitech gaming boards...macros.

Erm, they are hardware macros, right?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:54:57: There are plenty of good keyboards that do macros. Like a Gateway2000 Anykey. But NOT the Logi****!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 15 July 2010, 18:44:45: The keyboard is feeling better and better. I like linear a lot now so I think if the question boils down to tactile bump vs. linear switches, I'll give linear the edge. I still haven't bothered to learn how to touch type properly.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 15 July 2010, 19:03:22: Quote from: gr1m;203142
I'll give linear the edge. I still haven't bothered to learn how to touch type properly.

(http://imgur.com/AH5cF.jpg)

Learn to touch type, and I'm sure you'll change your mind.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 15 July 2010, 19:05:37: Do you make these yourself? If I owned a business, I would hire you as the Trollface Guy.

*edit
Do you mean that when touch typing, tactile feels better than linear?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Thu, 15 July 2010, 19:11:28: Quote from: gr1m;203145
Do you make these yourself? If I owned a business, I would hire you as the Trollface Guy.

Heh, I just keep them around.

Quote from: gr1m;203145
*edit
Do you mean that when touch typing, tactile feels better than linear?

In my opinion, yes. The tactile feedback is going to help you not bottom out at higher speeds and will make typing for long periods more comfortable.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 15 July 2010, 20:46:52: Quote from: gr1m;202260
I got 33 keys on the N-key test until I ran out of ideas on how to hit more keys

NKRO is not about hitting the most keys. It's about the fewest keys that can never get blocked by others ( I got this wrong before, too).

Can you press the following?

press Q pause (don't let go)
press W pause (don't let go)
press A pause (don't let go)
press S pause (don't let go)
press Z pause (don't let go)
press X pause (don't let go)

and have all six letter appear on the test?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Thu, 15 July 2010, 22:16:44: Yes, it just worked. "qwaszx" with 6 keys accepted.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 15 July 2010, 22:39:08: NKRO test. Mash your keyboard with your open palm. If output looks like this:

8.09u;ip-7j[o/,klh'6nymb5=tvr4gcefdxs

it's NKRO.

If it looks like

oh,u[

It isn't.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:44:57: Sometimes the numlock LED stays on even when my computer is turned off. Wut. Is this a PS2 thing?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: kishy on Fri, 16 July 2010, 11:55:44: Yes, some motherboards provide PS/2 (and for some USB) power even when off (but they must first be running, then shut down - simply connecting a power cord to it without first powering on usually won't do it).

PS/2 optical mice will, with motherboards that do this, remain lit up as well.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 16 July 2010, 22:01:13: The font on my left ctrl key is kinda darker and duller than the rest. Not as crisply white. Minor gripe but I wonder why I only noticed it today.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Fri, 16 July 2010, 22:04:54: Never mind, I think it's dirt going into the laser etching.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: aegrotatio on Sat, 17 July 2010, 02:02:14: The PS/2 illuminated LED thing when ATX computers are turned off were an early oddity. I have a couple of well-loved IBM keyboards (not Model M) whose LEDs would light up on powered-of computers with ATX power supplies back in the early days. These same keyboards were the only ones that allowed my AMD Socket A computers to boot properly, too, so it might have been an odd idiosyncrasy of the Socket A platform back then.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 17 July 2010, 13:03:26: One of the switches on my keyboard is weird. The "-" key on the numpad only responds to direct hits. I can hit it with an upwards, left and right angle but when I hit it with a downwards angle, the switch "snags" and sticks. I had dropped a sesame seed into my numpad and pried the keys out using a pocket knife (applying light pressure and rotating around the keycap) to remove it. I thought maybe I damaged the keycaps or something but the rest of the numpad seem fine and the individual switch for the "-" key exhibits the same behavior without the keycap.

Odd.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ch_123 on Sat, 17 July 2010, 13:42:47: Quote from: Phaedrus2129;203206
NKRO test. Mash your keyboard with your open palm. If output looks like this:

8.09u;ip-7j[o/,klh'6nymb5=tvr4gcefdxs

it's NKRO.

If it looks like

oh,u[

It isn't.

Make sure you hold down the two shifts at the same time.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sat, 17 July 2010, 21:41:47: Some guy helped me out on vent, said that to clean the dirt out of the laser etching, I get a Q-tip and toothpick with some rubbing alcohol. I'll try that.

He also said to apply a tiny bit of WD40 to the sticking switch, but not too much to avoid ruining it. Any ideas on how to fix a sticking Cherry Black switch?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 18 July 2010, 00:17:53: So I'm not going to mess with the switch but I'm not happy. If one switch ****ed up, are the others as fragile? It's not a key I use often (or in fact, ever use) so I don't think it's worth the trouble to RMA it.

Still. Did I break the switch? Did the keyboard arrive like this and I only just noticed? It's like when hit even slightly downwards, the switch snags onto the inner wall.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 18 July 2010, 11:58:45: I'm RMAing the keyboard. So much for "18 billion keypresses" when the switch is ****ed right out of the box. Let's hope the second one works fine.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 18 July 2010, 18:22:27: (http://imgur.com/e1NHr.jpg)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 18 July 2010, 18:37:17: Probably. But then imagine a broken switch on a keyboard I had payed $80 shipping/customs for.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Sun, 18 July 2010, 18:57:41: Quote from: gr1m;203966
Probably. But then imagine a broken switch on a keyboard I had payed $80 shipping/customs for.

Elitekeyboards packs their keyboards well, and if I remember correctly, tests each switch before sending it out (at least with the blues, because the click leaf makes them more issue prone).

I could be wrong, but I believe majestouch mentioned this at some point on GH.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 18 July 2010, 19:04:54: Hm. Well, I guess that's the advantage of buying from an exclusive keyboard store.

**** **** **** **** ****. My ideal fix to this situation would have been fixing the switch myself but I'm 90% sure I'd have ruined the keyboard (and as far as I know, Steelseries 7Gs are hard to open up and 6Gv2s are probably no different). So I guess I'll have to RMA it. Since it's a key I do not use often, I can potentially let it be but if I pay $107 hard earned dollars for a product, it better not be broken.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Mon, 19 July 2010, 09:09:06: Quote from: gr1m;203972
Hm. Well, I guess that's the advantage of buying from an exclusive keyboard store.

Definitely.

Sorry that I'm trolling you nonstop, but with the trollface in your avatar, I feel compelled to.

Quote from: gr1m;203972
**** **** **** **** ****. My ideal fix to this situation would have been fixing the switch myself but I'm 90% sure I'd have ruined the keyboard (and as far as I know, Steelseries 7Gs are hard to open up and 6Gv2s are probably no different).

Some of us were not meant to tinker with hardware. I am one of those people. You're making the right choice if in doubt.

Quote from: gr1m;203972
So I guess I'll have to RMA it. Since it's a key I do not use often, I can potentially let it be but if I pay $107 hard earned dollars for a product, it better not be broken.

Where did you buy it from? Do they cover return shipping on defective items, like Newegg?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 12:26:27: I think they do. NCIX, it's like the Canadian Newegg (Newegg Canada isn't as good as Newegg US). They just accepted the RMA with an e-mail confirmation and they provided a shipping label via PDF but I still doubt they cover costs. Or maybe if I call Purolator like the e-mail says they'll know what to do when I tell them it's an NCIX RMA.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 13:00:05: If in doubt pester tech support. So I plugged my G15 back in after packaging up my new mechanical for RMA and I'm such a sad bunny. I never noticed until after using a linear switch that rubber domes have tactile feedback (well, maybe not as good as blues or browns so don't sue me but I do feel a bump when I type on them). As soon as I realised that, I also realised I miss my Cherry blacks.

Yeah, I hate this thing.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 14:19:14: Quote
Hi,
You will have to pay for shipping because at the time of check out when you made this purchase for the system you did not purchase Express RMA.

Sincerely,
Billy
NCIX Tech Support - Product/System Support & RMA
NCIX Customer Care

****ing ***gots.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 14:44:02: Well, I just sent them a piece of my mind. Short and sweet, the same line I used on XFX to avoid paying for shipping when the RMA replacement card arrived DOA:

"I do not understand why I have to pay for your mistake."

If they don't acquiesce, I'll fix the switch myself or live with it or something. I'll also send them another piece of my mind, about how common business practise is that customers shouldn't pay to get faulty products replaced. But then there's that outraged manly-man inside me that says "YOU PAYED $107 FOR THIS PIECE OF **** SO IT BETTER NOT BE BROKEN, AAAAARGH!"

How hard would it be to fix a Cherry switch?
And I've just decided. When I'm done with college, I'm moving to somewhere in the US with a Fry's, Microcenter and a close Newegg warehouse.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Bumrush on Mon, 19 July 2010, 14:45:20: Quote from: gr1m;204151
****ing ***gots.

Dude, language!
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 14:51:24: Quote from: kishy;204154
And the award for most irrelevant insult goes to gr1m!

That said, unfortunate situation. Retailers should be required by law to pay return shipping on faulty merchandise. Retailers who find this unfair are the type of retailers who would ship out faulty merchandise anyway.

I've been kind of interested in a G15, to be honest, to get the screen for use in other project.

And I forgot to say that, yeah I want to get rid of the G15. The keycaps are filthy (like, 2 years of Red Bull, Cheetos, procrastinated late-night essays and Counter-Strike: Source filthy), but if you only need the LCD...

Quote from: Bumrush;204157
Dude, language!

Hey, you try buying a keyboard that people promise will blow your mind with how reliable and solid and amazing it is and have it arrive broken and then find out that you have to pay to get it replaced. I bet you wouldn't be calm.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:00:20: I should have never decided not to get the Filco tenkeyless Cherry Brown keyboard. This is punishment for it. An RMA only takes my total cost closer to what I would have payed for the Filco.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:06:00: Quote from: gr1m;204163
I should have never decided not to get the Filco tenkeyless Cherry Brown keyboard. This is punishment for it. An RMA only takes my total cost closer to what I would have payed for the Filco.

dude any seller worth his salt would cover cost of return shipping if its a faulty keyboard. there's no reason the consumer has to pay in a no-fault situation. where did you buy it from?

ergogeek.com covered my return shipping when my m10 had a bum key. das covered my return shipping when the first das I bought arrived with a chunk of plastic missing. Its only some individual ebay sellers (like even the well-liked brian on ebay) who demand you cover return shipping even when its not your fault. Thats a pretty amateurish policy if you ask me. This is why i like full retail shops. You never know what you'll get when your order a keyboard, best to make sure the store's policies are generous in that regard.

i dont know elite keyboards policy on covering return shipping if the board is faulty, but i know that they dont take returns, period. I was burned with that once and learned my lesson for good.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:10:35: It is pretty stupid. I'm not going to RMA it when I have to pay for it. And how does Elitekeyboards not accept returns? Like, if I had bought a Filco from EK and it had a lousy switch, I'd be screwed?

I bought it from NCIX. Biggest Canadian e-tailer.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:16:16: They mean no refunds. I'm almost certain that they have an RMA facility...

They certainly do for their Topre keyboards.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:19:24: Oh, OK. Well, NCIX has a refund system (even if your item is not defective but that involves paying a restocking fee). I understand paying a fee for returning a non-defective item but paying a fee to get a broken item replaced?

Fail.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Bumrush on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:39:08: Quote from: gr1m;204160
Hey, you try buying a keyboard that people promise will blow your mind with how reliable and solid and amazing it is and have it arrive broken and then find out that you have to pay to get it replaced. I bet you wouldn't be calm.

One of the reasons I enjoy participating in this forum is because its members, by and large, are friendly, good-spirited adults who are wholly capable of expressing themselves without resorting to unnecessary profanity and hateful commentary.

Don't get me wrong, I know the feeling. I paid $200 for some bunk OCZ RAM and both kits arrived defective. Even one of the kits I got back from the RMA was defective. In each return, I had to pay for the postage, which, while not as expensive as your case, was little consolation for the fact that the product has a lifetime warranty. What good is a lifetime warranty if the product has such a high failure rate that the cost of investment is increased 50% by the return shipping charges? I have since vowed to never purchase their products again, since my power over them is limited to my choice not to give them any more of my hard-earned money.

In any case, you are projecting your hate on this company for their denial of a service. A service that, according to them, you implicitly declined during the finalization of your purchase. If you weren't aware of this service because they obscured it from you, then shame on them. Otherwise, buyer beware.

I do hope that you are ultimately able to resolve this issue to your satisfaction. Sorry for the rant and I'll shut up now.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:41:39: Please, don't lecture me. If you want to experience the friendly, good-spirited adults who don't use bad language that make you enjoy participating in this forum, then by all means avoid my threads, ignore-list me or do whatever but I don't appreciate being told how I should behave in my own thread.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:49:15: So I got a pretty good reply from NCIX.

Quote
Hi,
We assume everything shipped out is in %100 working condition any defects and so forth we cannot account for and is why it is suggested to purchase Express RMA as if an item is defective we would pay for shipping the item back to us.

Sincerely,
Billy
NCIX Tech Support - Product/System Support & RMA
NCIX Customer Care

Which is basically true. So I just e-mailed Steelseries with an attempt at being semi-cute. "Uncle Steelseries, Naughty Cousin NCIX is making me pay shipping, can you do it for fwee?" If they refuse, then I'll switch my NCIX RMA to a refund and take my $107 back and chill with my G15 (ugh) until I muster up enough funds for a proper Filco tenkeyless.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 16:26:20: Yeah this sucks, I order a ****load from NCIX, and GENERALLY also decline express RMA. I know the policy, but I really think it is horse****. It defeats the benefits of ordering online if I have to wait forever to get a product, have it broken, pay to ship it back and wait even longer...

Really your only recourse is to make life difficult for them over the phone. This should work especially well if you spend a lot of money with them, and have never been trouble for them before. Dont give up, just escalate it as far as possible and threaten to take your biz to basically anybody BUT them. It might help if you could also find an e-tailer who does accept paid returns. Most actual companies will send you a replacement and pre-auth a card while they wait for you to return the defective product with their provided box and label.

Good luck.

*edit - I gave out too many "good lucks" for one post.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 16:30:41: Thanks for the sympathy. Well, aside from not being happy with NCIX, I have decided on a refund for other reasons too - I figure if I'm gonna buy a mechanical keyboard, I'll buy a proper one from a specialist store and not some gamer stuff. Should I go through "call them for free shipping" for the refund as well, or should I just suck it up, pay the shipping for the refund and then punish NCIX by never buying from there again.

As for what you're saying, I recently RMA'd an LG monitor and it was just like you described. They sent me the replacement first and in the box, there was a label to send back my defective monitor. A phone call to Purolator and the whole thing was done in 2 days with no money out of my pocket.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:14:30: I thought of a funky comeback to the NCIX response. "Well, I assume that everything I buy is in 100% working condition".
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: niz on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:02:09: Quote from: Bumrush;204186
I have since vowed to never purchase their products again, since my power over them is limited to my choice not to give them any more of my hard-earned money.

Good choice. Some companies just don't get it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:09:53: Quote from: gr1m;204214
I thought of a funky comeback to the NCIX response. "Well, I assume that everything I buy is in 100% working condition".

Exactly. If you have the time, I would still bust their balls to try and get a free return.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:21:59: I have all the time in the world.

Quote
Well, I also assume that everything I buy is in 100% working condition. If I'm going to have to pay to get a defective item replaced, I would rather get a full refund and start shopping at stores that offer better RMA services.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:41:21: Quote
As a one time exception, I would like to offer free return shipping on this item.

Hey, cool. That was smooth.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:05:22: Does anybody know if I can print a shipping label (bar-code and all, the kind where the Purolator guy comes to your house, scans the barcode with his hand-held scanner, sees that the shipment is A-OK and takes your box) from home?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:30:17: yeah i think a simple printed sheet of paper will work. So are they going to allow the return for free?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:42:19: Yup. I guess the "I'm taking my money elsewhere" warning can encourage any company to provide good RMA services.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:54:32: ****ing A. Getting a replacement then instead of a return, since it will be "free"? You have to encourage their good response by showing that it pays to treat the customers well.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:02:01: glad its free, but yea, why not get a replacement? ask the guy to click each key before he puts it in the box. Ergogeek.com did that for me when they replaced my m10, i asked the guy to take a minute and check each key before mailing it to avoid any further issues and he was more than happy to oblige (after all, he saves a lot of money too to ensure its working and not risk another return if its not).
he said he can only do it if buyer requests it, obviously, since its not their policy to poke around inside NIB boxes generally. Maybe this guy will oblige too, since he seems willing to please you so far.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:02:07: Yup, replacement. I like the keyboard and already miss it dearly. I only said refund if I didn't get the free shipping. Now that it's free, I'm proceeding with my initial replacement course of action (I'm aware I made a post about why I should buy from a specialist store from now on but if I like the keyboard, why not get it replaced instead of spending an additional $100 on a similar Filco).

I'll ask for the new keyboard to be checked. I'd be much happier that way (as opposed to getting another broken one).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:10:25: Quote from: gr1m;204290
Yup, replacement. I like the keyboard and already miss it dearly. I only said refund if I didn't get the free shipping. Now that it's free, I'm proceeding with my initial replacement course of action (I'm aware I made a post about why I should buy from a specialist store from now on but if I like the keyboard, why not get it replaced instead of spending an additional $100 on a similar Filco).

I'll ask for the new keyboard to be checked. I'd be much happier that way (as opposed to getting another broken one).

Yeah it only makes sense, plus there will be plenty of time to order a new filco, who only owns ONE keyboard.

Im happy to hear that they did this for you, I have always been a fan of NCIX and would hate to see a reasonable request denied because of a BS policy that is only there to deter abuse of a free returns system. It isn't fair that a proper customer, who by all right COULD have taken their mechanical keyboard biz elsewhere, would have to suffer extra costs after spending hard earned cash on a niche product.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:13:28: IF this all works out I might consider picking up the latest DAS from them instead of going through the import BS from elitekeyboards with a filco... living in Canada sucks sometimes (although I have had good luck in finding older boards for cheap ;))
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:19:44: Quote
Thanks a lot, I'm glad to keep shopping at NCIX and I will use ExpressRMA in the future.

Now, is it OK if I request one more thing. Can the replacement keyboard be opened up and checked before being sent out (have all the keys pressed to ensure none of them are broken)? Not that I am blaming NCIX for the first one being defective, since NCIX does not make or package the keyboards and it is not common practice to open and test products before shipping them, but it would seem to be the best way to avoid problems with mechanical keyboards.

Thanks again for the free return shipping,
Sevag

Let's see. If he refuses, no biggie. I still get a free replacement keyboard. If he accepts, NCIX wins.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:31:19: it might not be a bad idea to point him non-chalantly to this thread (or mention gh in general) so he knows others are watching his response. I mean seriously. I honestly think part of the reason das' customer service ramped up radically was when they realized how much of a topic of discussion (and intense scrutiny) they were on this board.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:33:29: Not after I called him a "****ing ***got" in the thread. Lol. Besides, I tried that with XFX and it didn't make my struggle to get an RMA any easier. Or maybe it did, because at the end of the day I still got my RMA.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:34:07: Quote from: gr1m;204325
Not after I called him a "****ing ***got" in the thread.

hahahahahaha good point ;)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:56:53: Quote from: gr1m;204325
Not after I called him a "****ing ***got" in the thread. Lol. Besides, I tried that with XFX and it didn't make my struggle to get an RMA any easier. Or maybe it did, because at the end of the day I still got my RMA.

edit button??? Oh, but now we just keep quoting it ...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 20 July 2010, 07:42:54: You never know if they actually will do it, but it's worth a shot. The worst he can say is "lol no", he's not going to go "PAY FOR SHIPPING AGAIN JERK".

Anyhow, might want to follow up with SteelsSeries on this too to let them know that NCIX made a one time exception, you love the product even though you were disappointed in the defect, etc.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 20 July 2010, 11:35:05: Quote
Hi Sevag,

Yes we can do that but you will have to call into customer care and tell them to hold the package and let them know as to you want someone to test it. If you wish to proceed with this meathod it would delay the shipping date by at least a day.

Sincerely,
Billy
NCIX Tech Support - Product/System Support & RMA
NCIX Customer Care

Cool. The broken keyboard should be picked up any time now.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 12:34:38: That is quite boss. I will be ordering a DAS at some point from them.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: wellington1869 on Tue, 20 July 2010, 13:09:00: that is indeed "boss". very cool
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 20 July 2010, 13:39:41: So apparently that's another hidden service of NCIX, like pricematch. Instead of purchasing ExpressRMA, I can just ask them to inspect the item every time.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 20 July 2010, 13:50:24: Quote from: gr1m;204566
So apparently that's another hidden service of NCIX, like pricematch. Instead of purchasing ExpressRMA, I can just ask them to inspect the item every time.

They're probably doing it as a one time courtesy, especially since a computer keyboard is easy to test (plug it in, try every key, put back in box).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 20 July 2010, 13:52:36: The way the guy worded it made it sound like something typical though. He didn't say, "Alright buddy, I'll make you an exception". IDK but to me it sounds like a legit NCIX service. Also, they actually do offer to assemble and test your computer parts (if you bought all the components to make a computer), but that costs $50 because it also counts as an assembly and operating system installation fee. Maybe it's an extension to that service. Not that I'd ever use that service but it's nice to avoid DOA motherboards and stuff.

Quote from: kishy;204572
Yeah, don't count on them testing a processor.

Well, I usually don't count on processors being broken :p (has that happened to anyone here?)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 15:11:49: Quote from: gr1m;204573
The way the guy worded it made it sound like something typical though. He didn't say, "Alright buddy, I'll make you an exception". IDK but to me it sounds like a legit NCIX service. Also, they actually do offer to assemble and test your computer parts (if you bought all the components to make a computer), but that costs $50 because it also counts as an assembly and operating system installation fee. Maybe it's an extension to that service. Not that I'd ever use that service but it's nice to avoid DOA motherboards and stuff.

Well, I usually don't count on processors being broken :p (has that happened to anyone here?)

Only to customers of NewEgg.com, and they weren't so much broken as they were... NOT REAL.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 20 July 2010, 15:25:41: Oh, I remember that scandal over at Overclock.net lol. It was a batch of dud (read: plastic) i7 920s right?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 15:30:30: Quote from: gr1m;204613
Oh, I remember that scandal over at Overclock.net lol. It was a batch of dud (read: plastic) i7 920s right?

I think they were some type of heavy metal, I know how much the Chinese like to put lead in the their products, but god damn...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 15:33:18: http://www.gearlog.com/2010/03/hands_on_fake_intel_core_i7-92_1.php (http://www.gearlog.com/2010/03/hands_on_fake_intel_core_i7-92_1.php)

The fan was a fake hunk of plastic, the CPU was an iron or lead type deal.

best comment ever, after the unboxing:

Quote
Oh, yeah, this looks legit.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 20 July 2010, 19:29:03: So this thread has been active until today without being rated and suddenly it's hit with a 2-star - WHY U HATIN' ON MY THREAD.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 19:46:00: The funny thing is, the star ratings are applied to so few threads that even a one star makes the thread stick out like a sore thumb, thus potentially driving views up.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 21 July 2010, 18:10:31: Should I sell my current PC whole local and start over. I'm liking the look of these new GTX 460s and want a really compact, lightweight gaming PC. Phenom II X2 555, mATX board and an SSD with a GTX 460 1GB. It'll outperform my current one by a bit too. In a tiny case. So cuuuuute.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Wed, 28 July 2010, 03:24:49: Lol, cool update bro:

I received a confirmation e-mail last night at around 11 PM that NCIX had received my keyboard. I said, "Good, I'll call them in the morning to ask them to test my replacement before shipping it", since their phone lines close at 5 PM like most stores. It turned out to be one of "those" nights and I woke up at 4 PM the next day. Turned on my computer to find that my replacement had already been shipped. Called and found out that (logically), it's too late to check the keyboard since they already shipped it.

Oh well.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Sun, 01 August 2010, 17:32:45: If all goes well, my keyboard should arrive tomorrow. Now, do Cherry keycaps fit all Cherry keyboards? I like the look of black keycaps with black font on them, a sort of stealth look. Double-shot keycaps are keycaps with two layers of plastic, essentially making them twice as sturdy as normal keycaps? Do they sell double-shot black Cherry switch keycaps with black labels? How expensive would it be?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: ch_123 on Sun, 01 August 2010, 17:37:36: Assuming we are talking about G80 and G81 caps then the answer is "For the most part, yes"

There are two potential problem points -

A) The Caps Lock on a lot of Cherry keyboards has the notch further to the left than a lot of non-Cherry made Cherry MX keyboards.

B) The mounting mechanism for larger keys like space bar and shift is different in many cases.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 14:37:29: So the replacement is here and it works fine. No sticking switches. How I missed these Blacks. Mmmmm.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 14:48:49: And according to Ripster, I'm a German masochist for liking Cherry Blacks.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 15:39:06: The keyboard isn't sitting flush with my desk. There's play on the top left and bottom right corners...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 02 August 2010, 15:54:18: oh-oh... here we go...
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 16:33:39: I'm kind of sick of being mechanical-less so I'm going to try ignoring it. Or bending the keyboard to fix the play.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 17:11:53: Lololol never mind. My keyboard sits where the case is on my desk and my guess is that the case flexes the desk slightly because placing the keyboard dead center in front of my monitor eliminates the play.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 17:54:02: Alright, that was just a lie to make myself feel better. The keyboard actually is lopsided. Sticking a bunch of sheets of paper under the bottom right corner rubber foot stops the play. Any ideas on how to permanently fix this?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 21:24:41: Are mechanical keyboards normally like this? Or is it a Steelseries QC issues? (By "like this" I mean plagued with problems). I understand that sticking switches happen, nobody is perfect and getting the keyboard replaced was easy. However, the entire body of the keyboard being lopsided? (From what I can see, the rubber feet are all of equal height so I don't think it's a problem with the rubber feet).
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: Manyak on Mon, 02 August 2010, 22:56:00: Quote from: gr1m;208479
Alright, that was just a lie to make myself feel better. The keyboard actually is lopsided. Sticking a bunch of sheets of paper under the bottom right corner rubber foot stops the play. Any ideas on how to permanently fix this?

grab a hold of your keyboard with one hand on each end and twist it like an ice tray
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 02 August 2010, 23:00:00: I did that a few times (and one of them with pure rage flowing through my veins out of sheer annoyance that both mechanical keyboards I have owned have had problems none of my rubber domes exhibited, which I can assure you was a lot of rage). It helps somewhat but it just reduces the issue instead of getting rid of it.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gcogger on Tue, 03 August 2010, 15:49:23: Quote from: gr1m;208479
Alright, that was just a lie to make myself feel better. The keyboard actually is lopsided. Sticking a bunch of sheets of paper under the bottom right corner rubber foot stops the play. Any ideas on how to permanently fix this?

Get some sugru (https://sugru.com/buy/) and build up the foot in one corner :)
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 03 August 2010, 17:02:41: Sounds cool. However, I think my initial desk statement was more correct. In the middle of my desk and on another desk, the stack of papers under the bottom right foot causes the bottom left and top right sides to have massive amounts of play. Removing the stack of paper allows for the keyboard to sit flush. On top of that, I measured the height of the rubber feet and all 4 are identical. I also measured the angles of the two sloping bars on the bottom (on which the rubber feet rest) and those are the same as well.

I was probably being overly nitpicky because my first one was broken.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 03 August 2010, 17:13:06: Yeah, that settles it. The thing sits as solid as a concrete block on the living room's mahogany coffee table. When in doubt, blame Ikea and not the mechanical keyboard.
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 03 August 2010, 18:32:32: Any ideas on how to clean dirt out of etched keycap grooves?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: phillip on Tue, 03 August 2010, 20:39:38: you already got it dirty?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 03 August 2010, 21:31:40: Quote from: phillip;208878
you already got it dirty?

Yes. Hands washed and all. Maybe it's the design of the 6Gv2 or maybe my skin produces excessive oil and stuff?
Title: Under $100 mechanical keyboard for gaming and typing, possible?
Post by: phillip on Tue, 03 August 2010, 23:12:47: time to start wearing some gloves D: