geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: silk186 on Mon, 21 October 2019, 17:47:50
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I've gone through a number of Chinese mechs which I've picked up on visits and really like my current board - Royal kludge RK61.
I like the backlight but don't use the wired dual-mode and really love the 60% form factor.
(https://i.imgur.com/0zaL7DZ.jpg?3)
I believe it a copy of brown switches made by the RK company by Kailh.
(https://i.imgur.com/t0dHdQW.jpg?1) (https://i.imgur.com/JhQPUui.jpg)
I work on the same table as my wife and she has been complaining. I'm wondering if the noise is because of the switches or board quality. I can get the same board with Cherry brown switches or pay a lot more for another brand if required.
I don't bottom out. The keys make noise if my fingers even brush the tops. I know the caps are cheap and the stems have movement which could contribute but I don't know how it compares to more quality boards.
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From what I have seen, the plate and case should be plastic, and the plate should rest on standoffs.
Maybe if you unscrewed the four screws and installed small rubber O-rings on the stand-offs (matching the size of the screws), then those O-rings should absorb some of the vibration.
There are many other mods that people do to silence their keyboards: Swapping with even thicker keycaps, lubricant for the stabilisers, bitumen sheets for added weight inside the bottom, O-rings around the keycap stems (http://www.ukkeycaps.co.uk/product/150-white-o-rings-for-cherry-mx) for damping bottoming out (when it happens), etc.
A simple method method however, is to use it on top of a desk mat / large mouse pad.
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I never thought about putting it on a mat, that is such a simple solution I hadn't considered :thumb:
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Mat, o-rings...because you most definitely bottom out, even if lightly...at least a good portion of the time.....or you're typing incorrectly and slowly......
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The o-rings and mat aren't going to make much of a difference if someone is bothered by the inherent noisy design of mechanical keyboards. The bulk of the noise is still there, just very slightly reduced (also makes it feel worse).
The only way to really keep the switches quiet are to change to a silenced switch of some type (MX Silent, silenced Topre), use a rubber dome, or install some thick padding that would radically alter the feeling of your keyboard.
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O-rings significantly change the sound...factually...
There are also things that can help on the upstroke which makes it even quieter..
Commenting on the level of sound that will bother his GF, is just speculation...because we don't know...
We can only comment on what will make his current keyboard a bit more quiet and maybe there is a middle ground there...
Thicker keycaps also tend to help IMO..or at least it is a lower tone which tends to bother people less...
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So the super-thin caps have an impact. But eh switches are not likely to be inherently louder than Cherry. Does something like the backplate make any difference?
I have a bag of o-rings that I can try installing but I didn't think it would be a major help. While I type fairly fast, I feel that the "loose" feeling of the keys is a bigger factor as the keys make noise even if I don't press them all the way down.
The biggest noise comes from my finger making contact with the cap, not the key being pressed and bottoming out.
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The only solution i had for this problem is to use Topre or Silent MX switches.
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When I got my first mechanical keyboard, I opted for Cherry brown switches because they were quieter than blue switches and at the time (2010) these were the only two switches that I could get locally.
They were too loud, though. My girlfriend complained when we shared an office. I tried o-rings but it made the switches feel much worse.
I tried the QMX switch silencers and a mat, but it doesn't sufficiently make it quiet and it also feels bad.
I ended up buying a HHKB that came lubed and had Hypersphere rings installed. The keyboard ended up being quieter than an Apple chicklet keyboard and it was great at home and at work.
I've since bought other keyboards but I always go as far as I can to make my keyboards quieter.
For Topre:
- Silence the sliders with either purple sliders or silencing rings like Silent-X/Deskey
- Lube the stabs - some Topre boards have rattly stabs like my FC980C.
For MX:
- Silent switches if I can
- Lube switches
- Replace the stabs and/or lube them. Stock stabs on off-the-shelf keyboards will give you less options for swapping but lubing can at least take away some of the rattling.
I also put a layer of foam/neoprene or something similar inside the case to absorb a bit of the noise. It might not necessarily make it quieter, but it removes some of the higher pitch noises.
Using a desk-mat underneath can help too, which I always do for aesthetics and for having a mouse pad.
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I took a look at the HHKB Pro2, disregarding the price, I'm not a fan of the key layout and the absence of the windows key.
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Perhaps consider the Leopold FC660C Low-Noise version. 45 gram silenced Topre switches, about one unit wider than the HHKB, and a more conventional layout (including the Windows/Meta key). About 250 USD at mechanicalkeyboards[dot]com.
If you are willing to consider a TKL, the RealForce R2 PFU edition is also silenced. I think it's on sale now at the Fujitsu site (hhkeyboard[dot]us).
Edited to add: both of these are quieter than the HHKB you were thinking about.
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It's a beautiful keyboard but prices in the UK are out of my budget. I read the MX brown RGB are quieter than MX brown because of the clear housing.
Would a Ducky One 2 Mini be noticeably quieter? It has RGB brown as an option and PBT double shot seamless keycaps.
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If Topre is out of reach and you need quiet operation, another option previously mentioned in this thread are the MX Silent Red or MX Silent Black switches. Both among the quietest options available. Both will be significantly quieter than any brown switch, IMO. Leopold boards are available with those silent switches, and are very high quality.
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Recently, all of my gaming (what little I have time for) is with a controller. Are these switches ideal for typing? I thought that reds in particular target gamers which is why I've been using browns. I have another Chinese board with black switches and I ended up gifting it to a friend.
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Are they ideal for typing? Depends on your personal preferences. Both silent red and silent black are linear switches. Many people seem to like linear switches for typing, while others do not. Moreover, some prefer the higher actuation weight of black switches for typing while others prefer lighter actuation weights. Without trying them out yourself, it will be difficult to determine if they are a good fit for your preferences.
Personally, I prefer tactile switches for typing. In my opinion, brown switches have terrible tactility… to me, they feel like dirty linear switches. But your preferences might not match mine.
The best tactile and silent MX-compatible switches I've tried are Zeal Zilents. But they are not cheap (over $1 per switch) and not readily available in prebuilt boards.
Based on my limited knowledge, it comes down to this: What do you value more? Silence, tactility or low cost? You can only really pick two of these. Silence plus tactility will cost more. Low-cost silence will lack tactility. Low cost tactility will lack silence. Others may disagree, and like I said my knowledge is limited... I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
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The Zilent v2 switches sound really good. It would be nice if I could buy a prebuilt keyboard or kit but I'm not finding any.
It seems that DIY is a deep dark hole.
Ideally, I would like a balance between the three. Quieter and at least as tactile as my (probably Kailh) RK brown switches without going crazy in price.
I can buy in either the UK or China.
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Lots of good info here and I second a number of the ideas. Some of the strategies are to address specific types of noise, so they may or may not all be relevant. I'm pretty sensitive to noise myself, so I do what I can to keep things a bit quieter. The keyboard in front of me has a desk mat underneath, strips of shelf liner inside the case, lubed cherry clear switches, QMX clips and thicker keycaps. The QMX clips were my latest discovery and I'm pretty happy with them. Helps to silence the upstroke compared to o-rings. "Feeling" is also a very personal thing. O-rings never bothered me, but for some it creates an unacceptable feeling. For some of these strategies, there's no real way to know without trying. Welcome to the expensive hobby of mechanical keyboards!
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Right now, it seems that living in the UK is one of the bigger obstacles. Also, that if I make a custom keyboard I will need to import parts from 2-3 vendors.
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I took a look at the HHKB Pro2, disregarding the price, I'm not a fan of the key layout and the absence of the windows key.
The HHKB does have a windows key. What it's actually missing is the Caps-Lock key, but the modifier keys can be changed with dip-switches on the back. It's also missing arrow keys. I generally wouldn't suggest this keyboard as the layout is really hit or miss. It works very well for me for my work (coding). Another key difference is that the backspace is split into two keys which is something I find very useful.
In general, Topre keyboards are very expensive and I wouldn't recommend them just for a quiet keyboard. They're very love/hate and those who love them will prefer them (like myself).
I read the MX brown RGB are quieter than MX brown because of the clear housing.
Even if this is true, I don't think it would be sufficiently quiet enough because browns are not a quiet switch.
The Zilent v2 switches sound really good. It would be nice if I could buy a prebuilt keyboard or kit but I'm not finding any.
It seems that DIY is a deep dark hole.
Ideally, I would like a balance between the three. Quieter and at least as tactile as my (probably Kailh) RK brown switches without going crazy in price.
I can buy in either the UK or China.
Right now, it seems that living in the UK is one of the bigger obstacles. Also, that if I make a custom keyboard I will need to import parts from 2-3 vendors.
There aren't many off-the-shelf keyboards that use Zealios switches as they're more of a very niche enthusiast-focused switch. You'd pretty much have to go custom to get Zealios V2 switches.
If you're not too picky then there are websites like kbdfans where you can buy either assembled keyboards or full kits which gives you the flexibility to choose your switch. This would not be cheaper than just buying a Leopold FC750R with silent red/black switches, though. You can also use the /r/mechmarket subreddit to try to buy from other local sellers which could be a cheaper alternative to buying from outside the EU.
You seem to be peeking down the rabbit hole and it can be a deep hole. Enjoy the trip if you fall in =)
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Still if you are going for Zeal switches your sound problem isn't gonna be solved unless you chose his silent variants.
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It doesn't need to be dead silent as my wife works on her macbook pro. Even I admit it sounds like my keys echo. I guess it is a combination of wobble in the stems and cheap caps. I don't know how the backplate factors in.
I didn't find anyone selling the Zilent v2, or any of there switches, in the UK. I feel that wobble is a big source of noise.
If I place my finger on the keycap and repeatedly press it, the noise is more than quiet enough, even if I intentionally bottom out.
The main noise is created when my fingertip makes contact with the keycap. I don't expect a silent mechanical keyboard.
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So the super-thin caps have an impact. But eh switches are not likely to be inherently louder than Cherry. Does something like the backplate make any difference?
I have a bag of o-rings that I can try installing but I didn't think it would be a major help. While I type fairly fast, I feel that the "loose" feeling of the keys is a bigger factor as the keys make noise even if I don't press them all the way down.
The biggest noise comes from my finger making contact with the cap, not the key being pressed and bottoming out.
Get tighter fitting and thicker caps then?
Would be interesting to see this on video because frankly, it sounds wrong...
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What is the easiest way to get a video on here?
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What is the easiest way to get a video on here?
Probably YouTube.
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The open case design definitely contributes to the noise. The switches in Chinese clone mechs are outrageously loud, most likely due to lower quality parts.
Put it on a mat or something, maybe get some O-rings, otherwise you should get a new wife.
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The open case design definitely contributes to the noise. The switches in Chinese clone mechs are outrageously loud, most likely due to lower quality parts.
Put it on a mat or something, maybe get some O-rings, otherwise you should get a new wife.
I'm not surprised. I think I paid around £20 for it and I'm more than happy with it as it works as well as the day I bought it.
The benefits, removable cable, very solid case and easy to clean after I remove the keycaps.
Negatives, it is very noisy and the keys wobble. I bought it because I needed a very small keyboard to finish my thesis and didn't know how I would like a 60% board.
Now that I've started working and I have the space I'm thinking about a higher quality 60%. I don't see much point of the TKL, I think either go 60% or full size if you need the numb pad.
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60% is nice....and for the most part if you don't need the ins/del cluster and you have an easy way to use arrow keys on the 60%, you'll be fine.
The reason TKL is relatively popular is because that initial space you gain by giving up the numberpad, is significant...whereas that extra space you gain from going TKL to 60%, while it is exactly the same amount of space, is less significant as far as mouse placement, it just ends up being space that isn't used anyways.
So then you have to consider whether you want to deal w/ the FN layer for keys you actually do use (arrow keys mainly) on a normal basis...
And obviously if you plan on transporting it, 60% is far better than TKL when it comes to that...
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I don't miss the ins key but I miss the Numpad when I want to use the pound sign on my US layout keyboard.
I think 60% looks better than TKL and for a few years, I was working with a very small workspace.
These are the best I could find of my old workspace.
(https://i.imgur.com/qXFFXzi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fo6Z3QR.jpg)
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Wow..wtf..
Forget about the keyboard...get a proper space...that'll do way more than trying to get the keyboard and mouse to fit...
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The biggest noise comes from my finger making contact with the cap [...]
I find that hard to believe. Maybe you're confusing the sound of your finger making contact with the sound of the keycap coming back up from the previous stroke? With my keyboard (Cherry Browns), bottoming out and coming back up are the major sources of noise, everything else is almost negligible...