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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Sat, 26 October 2019, 15:58:56

Title: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 26 October 2019, 15:58:56
Finally got around to the full single player.

Graphix kind of dated, but still looks gud',  Runs surprisingly well on low end GPU.

1080p, Max setting. ~~ 140-200 fps

Everything comes @ chu' so fast. Run and gun, we get it, but reflexes arn't what they used to be, dying alot.

The overall Artistry is highly polished, no slack.


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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Sat, 26 October 2019, 16:25:45
Am tp4 an OG Doom player?
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 26 October 2019, 20:59:30
Am tp4 an OG Doom player?

Great childhood...

Although from an older person's persective now,  the genre MAY have gotten a bit too violent.

Back in the day, with the bad graphics, you're just killing cardboard,  but in the new Doom,  the --glory kill-- melee element, directly rewards you for gratuitous over the top violence, w/ red splatter all over the place.

Would that turn someone into a serial killer, prolly not,   buhhh, it certainly desensitize peeps to violence,  it could normalize things such as domestic violence.

For example, men who work at slaughtering houses, higher rates of domestic abuse.

Tp4 even recall as a child, the town butcher was a wife-beater. 
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 27 October 2019, 00:25:36
Phewww.  Just finished story mode on medium difficulty...  This game causes sweating.. it's that music,  non-stop ear-grind... and weird meat-noises..
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: noisyturtle on Sun, 27 October 2019, 15:47:26
Phewww.  Just finished story mode on medium difficulty...  This game causes sweating.. it's that music,  non-stop ear-grind... and weird meat-noises..

You should try it in VR. A Hell of a good time.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: clasicks on Sun, 27 October 2019, 16:09:41
hell yeah dude, i did this playthru for my first time just a few months back and thoroughly enjoyed it. The soundtrack really vibed well with the game and my ears.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: nmur on Sun, 27 October 2019, 20:04:14
I didn't expect to enjoy this game as much as I did. It's like the devs really embraced what made Doom so fun, and stuck to it.

The harder difficulties and really ****ing hard too.

This guy has some stylistic gameplay vids which are nice to watch too
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 27 October 2019, 20:25:56
I didn't expect to enjoy this game as much as I did. It's like the devs really embraced what made Doom so fun, and stuck to it.

The harder difficulties and really ****ing hard too.

This guy has some stylistic gameplay vids which are nice to watch too

Right away u can tell di's guy playing on 1080Ti 4K60, lol..

He's got motion blur turned on though, that's weird..



You should try it in VR. A Hell of a good time.

Have tried bunch of VR gear already, they all either give me alot of eyestrain, or cause nausea.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Mon, 28 October 2019, 04:51:54
Am tp4 an OG Doom player?

Great childhood...

Although from an older person's persective now,  the genre MAY have gotten a bit too violent.

Back in the day, with the bad graphics, you're just killing cardboard,  but in the new Doom,  the --glory kill-- melee element, directly rewards you for gratuitous over the top violence, w/ red splatter all over the place.

Would that turn someone into a serial killer, prolly not,   buhhh, it certainly desensitize peeps to violence,  it could normalize things such as domestic violence.

For example, men who work at slaughtering houses, higher rates of domestic abuse.

Tp4 even recall as a child, the town butcher was a wife-beater. 

I asked because even though I enjoyed playing through it, it didn't feel like Doom at all to me.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2019, 04:21:33
The weapon and suit upgrades are well balanced, they're overall easy to get but not Too-easy.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: yui on Tue, 29 October 2019, 04:45:54
Am tp4 an OG Doom player?

Great childhood...

Although from an older person's persective now,  the genre MAY have gotten a bit too violent.

Back in the day, with the bad graphics, you're just killing cardboard,  but in the new Doom,  the --glory kill-- melee element, directly rewards you for gratuitous over the top violence, w/ red splatter all over the place.

Would that turn someone into a serial killer, prolly not,   buhhh, it certainly desensitize peeps to violence,  it could normalize things such as domestic violence.

For example, men who work at slaughtering houses, higher rates of domestic abuse.

Tp4 even recall as a child, the town butcher was a wife-beater. 

I asked because even though I enjoyed playing through it, it didn't feel like Doom at all to me.
I kinda think that it is closer to doom that doom3 was but still technologies have evolved, some for the best and some for the worse like having more than 30 fps and 1 channel audio will change the experience a bit not even talking about having full mouse controls (horizontal + vertical!), I do welcome those changes but the newer does not replace the older but allows for newer generations to learn about the olden days.
I should say that i have only played the 2 DOOM (original and 2016) and not 2 and 3.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 29 October 2019, 05:27:23
Am tp4 an OG Doom player?

Great childhood...

Although from an older person's persective now,  the genre MAY have gotten a bit too violent.

Back in the day, with the bad graphics, you're just killing cardboard,  but in the new Doom,  the --glory kill-- melee element, directly rewards you for gratuitous over the top violence, w/ red splatter all over the place.

Would that turn someone into a serial killer, prolly not,   buhhh, it certainly desensitize peeps to violence,  it could normalize things such as domestic violence.

For example, men who work at slaughtering houses, higher rates of domestic abuse.

Tp4 even recall as a child, the town butcher was a wife-beater. 

I asked because even though I enjoyed playing through it, it didn't feel like Doom at all to me.
I kinda think that it is closer to doom that doom3 was but still technologies have evolved, some for the best and some for the worse like having more than 30 fps and 1 channel audio will change the experience a bit not even talking about having full mouse controls (horizontal + vertical!), I do welcome those changes but the newer does not replace the older but allows for newer generations to learn about the olden days.
I should say that i have only played the 2 DOOM (original and 2016) and not 2 and 3.
I'm not saying the game is bad, or that the changes are necessarily bad, but I disagree that it allows newer generations to learn about the olden days. This has nothing to do with the olden days at all xD .
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2019, 05:37:10
I'm not saying the game is bad, or that the changes are necessarily bad, but I disagree that it allows newer generations to learn about the olden days. This has nothing to do with the olden days at all xD .

Going through life now as an -olden- myself,  it's evident that there is an inevitable flow of value assignments. Even the worst things in society, of humanity are ordained. Choices do not conflict with predetermination. We decide to our best ability, yet those choices could not have gone any other way.  In that sense, weight seems more rightly shifted towards momentary appropriateness rather than strict architecture. We are always in the correct fluid state.

Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 29 October 2019, 08:43:40
I'm not saying the game is bad, or that the changes are necessarily bad, but I disagree that it allows newer generations to learn about the olden days. This has nothing to do with the olden days at all xD .

Going through life now as an -olden- myself,  it's evident that there is an inevitable flow of value assignments. Even the worst things in society, of humanity are ordained. Choices do not conflict with predetermination. We decide to our best ability, yet those choices could not have gone any other way.  In that sense, weight seems more rightly shifted towards momentary appropriateness rather than strict architecture. We are always in the correct fluid state.

That sounds like a very circuitous and esoteric way to say it's a product of its time – which I think doesn't excuse the issue at hand at all. There are still old-school shooters being made, for example: https://store.steampowered.com/app/562860/Ion_Fury/ which was received very well, too.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 29 October 2019, 10:32:33
I played Doom (2016) when it was on free trial a while ago.

I didn't like it at all, as a Doom game. [As an arena-shooter, it's fine].

For me, Doom is a haunted moonbase aesthetic, going into a 'hell' aesthethic. The level designs were what made the game. It was deceptively simple that keys advanced the level progression. But the levels themselves were amazing and ambitious.

Unlike in Wolfenstein 3D and clones, you could see other areas across courtyards and through windows. It was Romero's principle (I think) that if the player could see an area, he should be able to visit it. And you could go 'outside,' which was amazing.

You can do all of this in Doom (2016), but that isn't the same. The problem is that Doom (2016) is an arena shooter, so you go from one room (arena) to another, the exits seal sometimes, and you have to kill a bunch of monsters. Then, when all the monsters are dead, you move on. To the next arena. It feels artificial.

Classic Doom's levels were more contiguous, in the sense that you might rush through one area to find a better way to take on the monsters there. There were tons of secrets, often in out-of-the-way places, and you want to keep your eyes open. You feel like a tourist/explorer in Classic Doom, and not a bunch of staged arena fights like today.

And as much as Classic Doom had a 'metal' attitude, I find that Doom (2016) was just too over-the-top and in-your-face with its references, from the marine suit to the corpses and graves, it just felt clownish and immature. The tone is different in 2016, less "Alien" and more "Brutal Doom" and the ridiculous comic book.

Modding is what made Doom evergreen, and kept it going for 25 years. If you're looking for a good, "canonical" Doom experience today, try playing the "No Rest for the Living" expansion, which is a worthy successor to the base game. And the levels and ports that are available today are incredible. Bonus, Doom works perfectly with mechanical keyboards.

(https://i.imgur.com/nKAvV9x.png)

One of Romero's more recent levels
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Tue, 29 October 2019, 13:08:36
I played Doom (2016) when it was on free trial a while ago.

I didn't like it at all, as a Doom game. [As an arena-shooter, it's fine].

For me, Doom is a haunted moonbase aesthetic, going into a 'hell' aesthethic. The level designs were what made the game. It was deceptively simple that keys advanced the level progression. But the levels themselves were amazing and ambitious.

Unlike in Wolfenstein 3D and clones, you could see other areas across courtyards and through windows. It was Romero's principle (I think) that if the player could see an area, he should be able to visit it. And you could go 'outside,' which was amazing.

You can do all of this in Doom (2016), but that isn't the same. The problem is that Doom (2016) is an arena shooter, so you go from one room (arena) to another, the exits seal sometimes, and you have to kill a bunch of monsters. Then, when all the monsters are dead, you move on. To the next arena. It feels artificial.

Classic Doom's levels were more contiguous, in the sense that you might rush through one area to find a better way to take on the monsters there. There were tons of secrets, often in out-of-the-way places, and you want to keep your eyes open. You feel like a tourist/explorer in Classic Doom, and not a bunch of staged arena fights like today.

And as much as Classic Doom had a 'metal' attitude, I find that Doom (2016) was just too over-the-top and in-your-face with its references, from the marine suit to the corpses and graves, it just felt clownish and immature. The tone is different in 2016, less "Alien" and more "Brutal Doom" and the ridiculous comic book.

Modding is what made Doom evergreen, and kept it going for 25 years. If you're looking for a good, "canonical" Doom experience today, try playing the "No Rest for the Living" expansion, which is a worthy successor to the base game. And the levels and ports that are available today are incredible. Bonus, Doom works perfectly with mechanical keyboards.

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/nKAvV9x.png)


One of Romero's more recent levels
I agree with all you're saying, but I'd like to add that I do think that Brutal Doom DOES capture the feel of the original Doom very well. I'm not sure whether you were disputing that, but it kind of feeds into the point I was making earlier, because I'd tell people who want a modern version of Doom, they shouldn't play Doom 2016, but Brutal Doom (SgtMarkIV is a real Doom visionary).
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: HungerMechanic on Tue, 29 October 2019, 16:01:51
Yes, I would have said the same thing.

Brutal Doom is a modern lens looking at the old game. Like Doom (2016), it integrates the Doom comic book, but knowingly and openly.

I play Brutal Doom interchangeably with classic Doom, and levels that are good in one are often good in the other. And Brutal Doom is a fun way to play those ZDoom-only maps.

It's a different experience, Brutal Doom usually relying on KB+Mouse, whereas Doom can be played as pure KB. Brutal Doom is very fast-paced, and likes to send maximum numbers of monsters at you.

I was actually going to suggest to tp4tissue that he try Brutal Doom, simply because it is the original engine and game files upgraded into a much more modern control and movement framework, with all the added gore he likes from Doom (2016).
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2019, 16:18:49
OMG, turning off the Chromatic Aberration setting, it's like a different game..

Artists.. kekeke..

Let's use dees high-res textures.

Artist Todd: adds Chromatic Aberration, Sooo Blur, Much Retro.

look @ dat cliff texture on the bottom right..

Image slider comparison : https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxtapose/latest/embed/index.html?uid=06be86fa-fa92-11e9-b9b8-0edaf8f81e27

CA off
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CA on
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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 October 2019, 21:55:24
UAC,  Sign me up. !!

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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: Kavik on Wed, 30 October 2019, 08:49:51
I agree that the fights felt contrived. The whole activating-the-gore-nest thing felt stupid. Besides that, I did enjoy it. I thought it was rather easy on Ultra-Violence, but Nightmare is rather difficult in certain spots, mainly because of limited ammo.

Although I liked the game, I don't know if I'd have thought as much of it if everyone else hadn't said it was so great. It probably would have just been a decent FPS for me. I do think the atmosphere once in Hell is pretty neato. I didn't like the multiplayer when it was first released, but I've been playing it a bit this year and enjoy it. There aren't many players though.

I originally ran this game on a GTX 760, and it was playable but not great. On a GTX 980, it's very smooth. I'll have to turn off chromatic aberration; that was quite a difference in your screenshots.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 30 October 2019, 11:59:15

I originally ran this game on a GTX 760, and it was playable but not great. On a GTX 980, it's very smooth. I'll have to turn off chromatic aberration; that was quite a difference in your screenshots.

For half the game, I thought it was the TXAA's fault that the game has blurry textures, turns out it's Chromatic abberation.

Also, motion blur.. makes for a good viewer experience , but it's awful for the actual player.  I played the game with it off, never even turned it on,  But then I read an article about the Doom engine, and how their Per-Object-Motion-Blur is Top notch, So I turned it on, played for 5 minutes, and nearly threw up. It felt so unnatural and dissimilar to the physical motion timing that I've already developed in the game, that it literally made me nauseous.  IDK if you guys ran track, but this happens sometimes when you get a different pair of track shoes, and the timing/ balance is very different, it makes your whole body feel sick.

Depth of field as well. It goes into DOF when you do the melee, this is a huge problem because it blurs everything surrounding the melee monster,  so if something pops in on the left or right, you can't notice it until AFTER the DOF timer ends.  This again looks cool for a viewer on stream, but when you play it's awful. Not to mention LCD have so much blur already.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 31 October 2019, 21:27:02

Tp4 -Thought- he were gud' @ FPS.

Just tried Nightmare difficulty. Instantly humbled.. turns out, no, Tp4 super sux0rz.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 01 November 2019, 15:17:39
ZOMG,  finally tried Integer Scaling on Nvidia Turing gpu. It's sooooooooo guud'''

Bilinear can GTFO...  Integer = Sharp!

Notice how while the Bilinear image is smoother, It loses all the highlight detail/accuracy.

The Decals/ textures / highlights are much more accurately depicted through Integer scaling. Very useful for upscaling games to 4K on Ghetto GPUs.

4K
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Integer 1080p upscaled > 4K
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Bilinear 1080p upscaled > 4K
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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: noisyturtle on Fri, 01 November 2019, 15:25:32
the anti-aliasing in integer looks disgusting
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 01 November 2019, 15:29:10
the anti-aliasing in integer looks disgusting

LOL, that's (browser's) chrome's downscaling

You need to view the screenshots full screen on a 4K monitor if you want to compare Aliasing.

The posted image here viewed on anything other than 4K , Only-Serves to demonstrate the Preservation of highlight and texture accuracy. < this is the meat of integer scaling, aliasing isn't a huge problem because viewing distances on 4K panels take care of most of the jaggies without special treatment>

Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 02 November 2019, 11:25:08
Oooof.. Just Crawwwling through Nightmare mode. Dyin' Left'n'right.  F-wurd used per hour > 9000
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 03 November 2019, 18:10:28
This lever is almost impossible to find without having consulted strategy guide..

The Ambient Occlusion shrouds it in complete black from any viewing angle.


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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 05 November 2019, 08:11:12
GDI.. they might as well name nightmare mode, b00p you're dead...  Cuz that's wha happns.. touch anything n'ded
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: SBJ on Tue, 05 November 2019, 08:43:19
GDI.. they might as well name nightmare mode, b00p you're dead...  Cuz that's wha happns.. touch anything n'ded
Just buy RDR2.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 05 November 2019, 13:50:27
Installed dat' classic Doom 3 bgf-edition.

Seems they fixed some of the texture issues, it looks pretty sharp to me. <lod slider still backwards>

Even dis'ghetto laptop can run 16x MSAA. That's pretty neato.

Tp4 remembers running 4x AA on 6800 ultra and that was all like omg... this looks like real life. think' it were 1280x1024 back then, couldn't even afforz the 1600x1200 monitor.

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Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 06 November 2019, 16:03:38
After getting to lvl 10 in Nightmare now, firmly believe ultra-violence is the more-enjoyable mode.

Nightmare is an exercise in frustration.. It's does not seem challenging in the fun sense.. It's challenging in the memorization sense,  Grenade here, wait for spawn, grenade, turn 90 degrees, plasma, rocket, shotgun.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: chyros on Thu, 07 November 2019, 00:30:01
True Doom mode has ALWAYS been Ultra-Violence ;) .
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 10 November 2019, 11:19:46
Ran some CSGO today, felt like wading through sand..

It's a shame that Doom/ Quake style Arena Multiplayer is too difficult for most casuals.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 10 November 2019, 13:09:17
Just installed Doom on the ol' 7970.  Runs ~40-100fps @ 1920x1080 w/ most eye candy turned off.

So RETRO feelz..


(https://i.imgur.com/drhxq8h.gif)
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 17 November 2019, 12:13:29
LOLOL, Doom 3 Revenant looks like he's wearing women's pantyhose.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 07 December 2019, 12:20:14
Finally beat Doom (2016) On Nightmare Difficulty.

I can understand its difficulty design now, late game, enemies really need to do that much damage, because otherwise, it's too easy with the powerups.

Trying Ultra-Nightmare now.. without save points, not sure Tp4 has this kind of stamina. Have a headache just from the first 2 levels.
Title: Re: Doom (2016)
Post by: Sintpinty on Tue, 10 December 2019, 11:41:58
Finally beat Doom (2016) On Nightmare Difficulty.

I can understand its difficulty design now, late game, enemies really need to do that much damage, because otherwise, it's too easy with the powerups.

Trying Ultra-Nightmare now.. without save points, not sure Tp4 has this kind of stamina. Have a headache just from the first 2 levels.


You know what's nightmare difficulty?

MPM-2D1  :cool: