I wonder if most of us are walking the same very route. After testing so many boards we finally get back to the basics: An standard ANSI with caps swamped for control.
Out of curiosity, did you ever try the Kailh+Novelkeys "thick click" box jade switches? They are far and away the closest thing to a Model F feel that I have ever experienced in the MX-mount switch world.Is that really the closest thing to Model F really?
In terms of pure typing feel, it is to me.
I bought a cruciformer to cut the nubs off the stems just in case, though I prefer PBT caps anyway, which are supposed to be relatively immune to the problem.
You're right, though, that is a potential downside.
10 years to today I joined GH and this happens to be my 1337th post. I thought I'd share what I ended up with. I had mechanical keyboards and tinkered long before GH but really got into it when I joined this forum.
I started out with a vintage keyboard focus as a long time user, collector of vintage computers and electronics. The original draw to mechanical keyboards was that I was tired of wearing out rubber domes (I type so much they'd get mushy within a month, and I have had some arthritis issues on and off in hands and wrists. The mechanical keyboards came from an era where they attempted to reproduce the typing experience of the highly evolved IBM selectric typewriters. To this day, few will ever hit the sheer volume of typing that was done on selectrics in their prime era. We just don't do that kind of transfer of information now - we cut/paste and use OCR and other methods. So it was Buckling Springs from IBM, and ALPS or Cherries in the other keyboards made. Can't tell you how many I disassembled and repaired in my garage and cap sets and cases I soaked in our kitchen sink.
Some of you may know that I did the GHSS (Geek Hack Space Saver) with Imav's permission and encouragement and worked with Signature Plastics to create the caps for it. It was a NOS Siig Minitouch with a few green caps, puller and came in a canvas bag wrapped with a lime green yo-yo string. Initially SP was not interested in doing anything but basic lettering in their existing formats and fonts but I got them to tell me the graphics format their system used which was .svg and provided them a star graphic in that format and convinced them to at least try it. They did and successfully created a doubleshot cap from a star shaped graphic file. No big deal by today's standards but at the time it was pretty cool, to me. Sixty made some Red Esc keys and Geek Hack keys from them at the same time. I think he beat me to getting his done first. I kind of miss those days where it was a lot about re-discovery of long forgotten tech. As the years went on, you guys took it to new places with custom controllers, protocol translators, relays, machined cases and artisan caps. So cool.
Anyway, after buying and selling a few thousand keyboards (literally) - vintage, NOS and modern, I whittled those down to about 100 which I kept for several years. Then last year I decided to simplify and sold off all but 3. I even sold my collection of terminal boards and beam springs. What 3 did I end up keeping?
Northgate Omnikey
PS/2 and ADB ports. Thick steel backplate White ALPS but these particular ones are indestinguishable from any of the best blue alps I've had. Inverted T arrow cluster rather than the omnikey cluster which some have. This keyboard is so heavy and well made, it has to be handled to be appreciated. They come with spare caps to convert to DVORAK if you wish and can do so with the flip of a dip swtich. Programmable macros. Even a tunable key repeat rate. They include a keyboard dust cover and cap puller as well as detachable cable. This is a keyboard I truly appreciate for it's own sake. If it had cherry browns I'd use it as a daily driver.
IBM PC AT Model F w/model M key layout
The fastest I've ever consistently typed is on this keyboard. A few key swaps and you have a Model M layout. The only downside is the noise level which isn't ideal for all environments. This one was stripped and detailed by Scheng who was a member on here years ago and i'll never part with it.
Das Keyboard Professional 4 w/blank PBT caps
For me, this is the pinnacle of input achievement thus far. The full layout with inverted T cluster, dedicated numpad, media keys and the excellent volume knob placement make this a true winner. I think it's far better than the newer Das they just released. The cherry brown switches are still my favorite daily drivers after all of these years. The only downside to the Das4 is it's terrible key caps. The lettered versions wear out fast for my coworkers. I use the professional model with blank keys and the caps shine very fast and aren't the greatest sounding either. A set of textured, blank PBT caps solves this entirely. I've been running this setup at work and at home for 5 years now and love them. I personally feel you give up a lot when going to smaller layouts. I tried separate numpads and nothing worked as well for me as a full original Model M style layout. Do not underestimate the usefulness of the mute key and volume knob.
Layouts
I tried ISO, Dvorak, Colemak and did a lot of experimentation with AHK but in the end, I only do one layout mod - Map the caps lock key to left ctrl on an ANSI Qwerty keyboard.
This is such a huge increase in efficiency to have control there at your left pinky. Once you do that for a couple of weeks, you'll never want to go back to anything else. I use SharpKeys from RandyRants to do the key mapping. (Northgates do it automatically with a dip switch and include caps to swap)
For me, I get all of the nostalgia and history from the model F and the Northgate and all of the modern input capability from the DAS4. So I'm pretty happy with those. But I lurk often and am sure something will catch my eye soon enough. ;)
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Guess it's a YMMV situation then. I've had 2 separate boards now, both with stock browns, that over time just got much much better.
The main point to the original reply was really just to say that having browns on your daily driver, or as a favorite switch, is not entirely crazy. Noticed a reply to OP that was surprised about it being his favorite switch.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Guess it's a YMMV situation then. I've had 2 separate boards now, both with stock browns, that over time just got much much better.
The main point to the original reply was really just to say that having browns on your daily driver, or as a favorite switch, is not entirely crazy. Noticed a reply to OP that was surprised about it being his favorite switch.
There are always outliers, indeed. Should me be a commoner that just can't tolerate that browns' scratchy feeling.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Guess it's a YMMV situation then. I've had 2 separate boards now, both with stock browns, that over time just got much much better.
The main point to the original reply was really just to say that having browns on your daily driver, or as a favorite switch, is not entirely crazy. Noticed a reply to OP that was surprised about it being his favorite switch.
There are always outliers, indeed. Should me be a commoner that just can't tolerate that browns' scratchy feeling.
Browns are just better reds tbh , except with a tactile bump.
I can type the best on browns and blues.
Why is it that Cherry's switches are scratchy AF (excepting clears , greens and greys!)
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Guess it's a YMMV situation then. I've had 2 separate boards now, both with stock browns, that over time just got much much better.
The main point to the original reply was really just to say that having browns on your daily driver, or as a favorite switch, is not entirely crazy. Noticed a reply to OP that was surprised about it being his favorite switch.
There are always outliers, indeed. Should me be a commoner that just can't tolerate that browns' scratchy feeling.
Browns are just better reds tbh , except with a tactile bump.
I can type the best on browns and blues.
Why is it that Cherry's switches are scratchy AF (excepting clears , greens and greys!)
You can't compare a tactile switch to a linear and say its better da fu :confused:
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I read the previous statement wrong, my bad****
Also curious how long you used them and how much you type on average. Browns are definitely not really that good at all brand new, hence the break in mentioned.
The browns were installed in this board. I got it new in 2013 and sold it in 2015. I used it as a daily driver for two years. The scratchy feeling was always there.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/dUE7njC.jpg)
Guess it's a YMMV situation then. I've had 2 separate boards now, both with stock browns, that over time just got much much better.
The main point to the original reply was really just to say that having browns on your daily driver, or as a favorite switch, is not entirely crazy. Noticed a reply to OP that was surprised about it being his favorite switch.
There are always outliers, indeed. Should me be a commoner that just can't tolerate that browns' scratchy feeling.
Browns are just better reds tbh , except with a tactile bump.
I can type the best on browns and blues.
Why is it that Cherry's switches are scratchy AF (excepting clears , greens and greys!)
You can't compare a tactile switch to a linear and say its better da fu :confused:
*whimpers*
All switches are equal then!
Now you have popular tech Youtubers like Random Frank P and Brandon Taylor making custom keyboardsUnfortunate
The only Cherry browns I've had that have been "scratchy" were really old ones that had been in storage warehouses for decades. Typing on them resolves this pretty quickly.
I'm on Cherry browns right now and they're as smooth as any switch I've tried. Zero grit of any kind. I wonder if some batches have molding "flash" on them. I've seen that on plenty of caps, on cases and on the outer MX switch casings but not on the inner sliders that I can think of. At least, not from genuine Cherry.
It's also possible that they've ramped up production and haven't kept their molds in spec so over time it has affected quality. That's pure speculation but a very real issue with molding plastic parts.Show Image(https://www.paulsontraining.com/images/injection-molded-part-flash.jpg)Show Image(http://www.viewmold.com/sources/Injection_Molding_Defects/molding%20flash.jpg)
The only Cherry browns I've had that have been "scratchy" were really old ones that had been in storage warehouses for decades. Typing on them resolves this pretty quickly.
I'm on Cherry browns right now and they're as smooth as any switch I've tried. Zero grit of any kind. I wonder if some batches have molding "flash" on them. I've seen that on plenty of caps, on cases and on the outer MX switch casings but not on the inner sliders that I can think of. At least, not from genuine Cherry.
It's also possible that they've ramped up production and haven't kept their molds in spec so over time it has affected quality. That's pure speculation but a very real issue with molding plastic parts.Show Image(https://www.paulsontraining.com/images/injection-molded-part-flash.jpg)Show Image(http://www.viewmold.com/sources/Injection_Molding_Defects/molding%20flash.jpg)
Apparantly cherry claims that they are "factory lubed" when they feel scratchy and dry? How does this makes sense?
It really is boggling to think about where the mech kb scene was 10 years ago. It's nearly a legitimized mainstream hobby by now, a far cry from the insane lengths and work people put into their custom stuff even just 6-7 years ago.
It really is boggling to think about where the mech kb scene was 10 years ago. It's nearly a legitimized mainstream hobby by now, a far cry from the insane lengths and work people put into their custom stuff even just 6-7 years ago.
haven't been active here in a long while. dropping by to confirm this.
My first "board" is basically sitting on it's og box (to keep some dust away from it) and I've bought a TKL durgod k320 with cherry browns (couldn't justify spending more that 100$ on a keeb when the other one is fine, I just wanted a smaller board). The older board was a Steelseries 6GV2 with crappy ABS plastic keycaps (huge Taiwanese enter key) and stock was Cherry MX blacks (which I have eventually swapped ALL of them out for Gateron Blues), so basically I have a "stocky"custom 6GV2.
I've also learned about this forum, at the time, cause I needed help fixing a key chatter problem with said 6GV2. 1 or 2 threads in, asking for help and what not, and I got more than I could ever wish for (basically a very thoughtful user which I can't remember the username, sent me, free of charge 5 mx black switches and a basic soldering iron kit so I could fix the problem).
Whenever people ask me about mechs I always point them here, regardless of r/MK being very popular. An happy costumer will always come back and bring someone with them :)
It really is boggling to think about where the mech kb scene was 10 years ago. It's nearly a legitimized mainstream hobby by now, a far cry from the insane lengths and work people put into their custom stuff even just 6-7 years ago.
haven't been active here in a long while. dropping by to confirm this.
My first "board" is basically sitting on it's og box (to keep some dust away from it) and I've bought a TKL durgod k320 with cherry browns (couldn't justify spending more that 100$ on a keeb when the other one is fine, I just wanted a smaller board). The older board was a Steelseries 6GV2 with crappy ABS plastic keycaps (huge Taiwanese enter key) and stock was Cherry MX blacks (which I have eventually swapped ALL of them out for Gateron Blues), so basically I have a "stocky"custom 6GV2.
I've also learned about this forum, at the time, cause I needed help fixing a key chatter problem with said 6GV2. 1 or 2 threads in, asking for help and what not, and I got more than I could ever wish for (basically a very thoughtful user which I can't remember the username, sent me, free of charge 5 mx black switches and a basic soldering iron kit so I could fix the problem).
Whenever people ask me about mechs I always point them here, regardless of r/MK being very popular. An happy costumer will always come back and bring someone with them :)
Very similar experience to yours when I started. GH will always be my favorite spot for keyboards. Better people here than I've met anywhere else, even if I'm super toxic myself.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
Browns are much better than people give them credit for. While at first they are a bit rough and loud, after a break in time, they're actually a great switch. Reds don't seem to wear in quite the same way, and other cherries are other cherries we all know.
No lube, all stock. Suffer through that scratch for about 6 months or so, maybe less if you type more than I do.
I used to trash on them because it's a big meme in the community, and admittedly was pretty funny. But I very much miss my old CM Storm with browns worn in after about 4-5 years.
Browns were my first try into mechs, I did not like them, even without reading the community's opinion on them. I thought that if that was how a mech feels, it was not surprising why they become sort of obsolete LOLs.
I am still using MX Reds but i feel like i should mod the springs. It would void the warranty though
Well, I'm not sure if I tried that one in particular. I have a lot of experience with genuine Cherry switches, then I got a Novelkeys switch tester with 25 various types of switches from Cherry, Gateron, Kailh, Zeal, and perhaps a few others. Almost all of them were variations on the original Cherry feel. But the Kailh box switches are different. For lack of a better term, there's a big "cliff" of force drop off at actuation that's tactally reminiscent of the Model F spring buckling.
If you look at the IBM and Novelkeys force plots on https://plot.ly/~haata, you'll see what I mean about the big force drop at actuation. To me the Box Jade feels similar to my F-122, and the Box Navy (heavier) feels more like my SSK.
I think a feel that's midway in weight between the two would be ideal. I need to experiment more with aftermarket slightly heavier springs in the box jade to see if it improves the overall experience.
The only Cherry browns I've had that have been "scratchy" were really old ones that had been in storage warehouses for decades. Typing on them resolves this pretty quickly.
I'm on Cherry browns right now and they're as smooth as any switch I've tried. Zero grit of any kind. I wonder if some batches have molding "flash" on them. I've seen that on plenty of caps, on cases and on the outer MX switch casings but not on the inner sliders that I can think of. At least, not from genuine Cherry.
It's also possible that they've ramped up production and haven't kept their molds in spec so over time it has affected quality. That's pure speculation but a very real issue with molding plastic parts.Show Image(https://www.paulsontraining.com/images/injection-molded-part-flash.jpg)Show Image(http://www.viewmold.com/sources/Injection_Molding_Defects/molding%20flash.jpg)
The only Cherry browns I've had that have been "scratchy" were really old ones that had been in storage warehouses for decades. Typing on them resolves this pretty quickly.
I'm on Cherry browns right now and they're as smooth as any switch I've tried. Zero grit of any kind. I wonder if some batches have molding "flash" on them. I've seen that on plenty of caps, on cases and on the outer MX switch casings but not on the inner sliders that I can think of. At least, not from genuine Cherry.
It's also possible that they've ramped up production and haven't kept their molds in spec so over time it has affected quality. That's pure speculation but a very real issue with molding plastic parts.Show Image(https://www.paulsontraining.com/images/injection-molded-part-flash.jpg)Show Image(http://www.viewmold.com/sources/Injection_Molding_Defects/molding%20flash.jpg)
I know what people mean when they say scratchy....but they're not really scratchy it is just they're pressing the key slowly and don't like how the tactile bump feels.
As someone else said though, once you break them in they're great....I love browns when they get some usage on them...they become very smooth and the bump feels a bit more natural...
Well, I'm not sure if I tried that one in particular. I have a lot of experience with genuine Cherry switches, then I got a Novelkeys switch tester with 25 various types of switches from Cherry, Gateron, Kailh, Zeal, and perhaps a few others. Almost all of them were variations on the original Cherry feel. But the Kailh box switches are different. For lack of a better term, there's a big "cliff" of force drop off at actuation that's tactally reminiscent of the Model F spring buckling.
If you look at the IBM and Novelkeys force plots on https://plot.ly/~haata, you'll see what I mean about the big force drop at actuation. To me the Box Jade feels similar to my F-122, and the Box Navy (heavier) feels more like my SSK.
I think a feel that's midway in weight between the two would be ideal. I need to experiment more with aftermarket slightly heavier springs in the box jade to see if it improves the overall experience.
Does anyone know how tangerines feel in this thread