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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Rusty Rat on Mon, 14 June 2010, 18:35:07

Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Mon, 14 June 2010, 18:35:07: I have a garage full of keyboards – perennially searching for the holy grail of one single board. I once had an M15 (brand new with the box) but alas it was stolen (Australian thieves have taste?) Despite dalliances with other boards I always return to a Model M (got three of them) My ideal would be an IBM Mini but alas these seem as rare as honest politicians and the cost of shipping from the US plus the probability of the rivets being broken in transit does not enthrall me.

I have always had a separate board to go with the Notebooks –tried quite a few but eventually settled on G80-11900 because these have the proper 11 inch spacing. Lately I have had to use one of the Notebooks outside for a few hours each day and the Cherry G80 is a real pain after a couple of hours. On occasions if I have been away for a few days I have actually thrown a Model M in the car as well.

Ideally I needed an IBM Spacesaver but tried to find something close in terms of feel and actual availability. I don’t use the number pad so a tenkeyless was ideal. After a great deal of reading around geekhack the Filco with Cherry Blues seemed an ideal compromise as it could also replace my trusty Model M on the desktop.

Objectively we could measure keyboards from the viewpoint of tactility, pressure, length of key travel and similar factors but at the end a lot comes down to subjective impressions such as why does a Merc feel better than a Ford to drive. So I suppose that with everything there has to be some sort of reference benchmark and overall I don’t think that many would disagree that the Model M represents a good overall objective and subjective benchmark.

So after a week of the Filco what is a dyed in the wool Model M’er subjective impressions.

Now I do think it does take a few days to get used to any new board but this was probably the first one I felt comfortable with almost straightaway.

The Cherry blues obviously have far lighter force needed but this was no real problem for me and I adjusted in days. The key travel appears virtually the same as a Model M (aren’t they both 4mm?) but I am bottoming out far less perhaps because I need less pressure to register a keypress. The noise of the cherries appears slightly lower than a Model M but is higher pitched and this is probably more likely due to the different case weights and obviously the switch design. If anything its sounds more like an M2. I don’t think it is objectionable even if used in a conventional environment. I hear people with Notebooks making far more noise because they are thumping the keyboard and constantly bottoming out.

Strangely enough the biggest adjustment was to the lack of the double twang of a Model M - it didn’t sound quite right after listening to that music for years, it makes it seem as if you are going at half speed.

Only negative which was easily solved with masking tape are the very bright LEDs, they really can be quite distracting.

Other than now having more room to put additional junk on the desktop after reclaiming acres of beige Model M space the transition has been painless.

The Filco has now replaced my Model M on the desktop (well at least for a few weeks) with the added advantage of being able to carry it around with the Notebooks. Not quite the same as an IBM Mini but the sleek design fits in well with everything else that seems to be variation of black on a desk these days.

If a model M’er asked me to recommended a replacement board then I would say go for the Cherry Blues and if they don’t use the keypad then save some desk real estate and get a tenkeyless. Of course I haven’t tried a Topre or HHKB or anything else exotic because eventually it comes down to what you can actually buy here.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 June 2010, 19:15:17: i have done the same thing. model m>filco blue. i agree with everything you said. the only thing is i was bottoming out on the filco at first. it takes a lighter touch. i started with model f! before that i used selectric typewriters and before that manual typewriters! ok, i think i am giving away my age lol. my first computer keyboard and computer(not mine, i used it at the lab i worked at) was from sperry/univac!

i was going to trade the filco blue for a 11900. in another thread i was told it is not for long typing sessions. i see that you seem to concur. so i am glad i did not get the 11900 for a desktop board.

good review rusty rat.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: audioave10 on Mon, 14 June 2010, 20:33:56: I've been having the same thoughts. My G80-3000 feels good and I do want a tenkeyless. The Filco Blues seem to be my best choice. I check Ebay alot but don't seem to like the condition or price of most keyboards there.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 June 2010, 21:28:00: i know the selectric was lighter. those were great machines of the past. then i got the ibm with the "ball" don't remember what it was called. remember punch card machines?

i wish a g80-3000 with blues was readily available. i'd bet it is higher quality than the filco. the filco is fine though. i wouldn't mind the layout of the 11900. it is the switches that would bother me i am sure. maybe it is good for gaming i have no idea.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: ecru on Mon, 14 June 2010, 21:49:47: Thanks for the comparison between Model M and Cherry Blues. That confirms my recent order. I currently have a Unicomp Model M, Cherry brown, and Cherry white (in that order of preference), however I prefer the G80-1800 layout.

Yesterday I ordered an Adesso MKB-125B (http://www.compsource.com/pn/MKB125B/Adesso_16/) through a buying service (International Checkout (https://www.internationalcheckout.com/login.php)). Seems kind of strange needing to use a buying service to the US. $US110.66 delivered to Australia.

I'm not expecting much with the build quality - my Filco was substantially worse than a 'real' Cherry too for that matter. My holy grail maybe a Raptor Gaming K1 with a blue cherry swap.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 June 2010, 21:57:03: if the 125 is anything like the 135 maybe you will be surprised. i felt it was very well built and nice overall.

i do not know about aus but the 125 can be had for $55usd in usa. at that, i think it is a bargain.

i think i will just try the 11900 for $100usd tomorrow. store is close so i can return it if i don't like it. i am guessing cherry's build quality is still at the top level.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: audioave10 on Mon, 14 June 2010, 22:14:01: I was looking at that 125...seems nice but I got "this" when I enlarged the photo.... ** Image may not exactly match product **. I hope that's just a generic thing that doesn't occur with too many keyboards.
My G80-3000 does have alot of "flex" in the case so you wouldn't want to carry it around alot or leave it in a very hot vehicle. I DO love the keys however.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: typo on Mon, 14 June 2010, 22:14:08: oh, i just saw ripster said cherry is not higher quality. oh well, i guess if the fonts wear off my keys i will just get keys from a old cherry. if they are indeed interchangeable. i think if the filco had ds it would be tops. besides topre of course. for the price of the filco i would have got the adesso though. had i known about it at the time. i would be happy with either. then again i wore off the lasered cherry keys. i have a heavy hand.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: ecru on Mon, 14 June 2010, 22:21:35: Quote from: ripster;193135
Well, I don't know about Cherry Corp keyboards being higher quality. They are rather disappointing keyboards when you open them up.

I won't argue. Perhaps I should revise my holy grail - Model M buckling spring in a G80-1800 layout with a normal keypad + and -. :)
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: typo on Tue, 15 June 2010, 03:17:48: do cherry blacks feel like a rubber dome?

i wonder if the adesso turns out to be better built than a cherry board. that would be intresting. are cherry's still made in cr? they used to be built in germany.

i am planning on getting the 11900 in the afternoon. i will let you guys know how i like it.

you guys that are getting the adesso 125(or any other pad print) might want to check out my recent posts here about "acryl". for all i know there letters might not wear off anyhow. i wonder if i can take the keys off the cherry and put them on the filco. $100 for keys seems steep though.

i think the original selectric had "flying hammers". if i remember correctly the selectric II had the "ball" in it. i was just revisiting my past lol.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 15 June 2010, 03:54:45: Quote from: Rusty Rat;193088
I have a garage full of keyboards – ...

Tell me about it =P
LoLz!

Quote from: Rusty Rat;193088
Now I do think it does take a few days to get used to any new board...

I really agree with this, and I think a few people miss out on good keyboard (or at least one they would end up liking) because they didn't spend enough time with it.

Quote from: typo;193209
do cherry blacks feel like a rubber dome?...

i am planning on getting the 11900 in the afternoon. i will let you guys know how i like it.
...

I don't think cherry blacks feel anything like rubber domes. For one most if not all rubber domes are tactile and the cherry blacks are pretty much not tactile at all. That actually sounds like I prefer rubber domes, but I don't. I really, really like cherry blacks and I happen to like the 11900 very much in particular. They come with three flavors of keycaps though, and I happen to like them all but I can see some who would prefer a certain type. There are the 2 shot ones, the thick ones (same thickness of 2 shot but they are not 2 shot), and the thin ones.

On a different note, having used hundreds upon hundreds of keyboards I would not put cherry boards high on the quality list. I would easily put Filco boards above most of them easily. But that's not to say the Cherry boards are crap, they are not. But perhaps midrange to sometimes low in terms of construction.

To the OP again-
Now back to me
(sorry commercial stuck in my head)

I find the Model M/F keyboards so interesting because they utilize such an interesting switch and they feel and sound so completely different than anything else. It will allways rank among my top favs.

Before I shut up though, I noticed you mentioned not wanting to risk buying certain boards because of loos/broken rivets. Well I don't know if you would be interested in it (especially since I don't think broken rivets make them all that different) but there was a great tutuorial on a "nut and bolt" mod you can easily do to the boards. Just do a search, courtesy of ripster and Sandy55.

=)
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Tue, 15 June 2010, 06:28:19: Quote from: typo;193209
are cherry's still made in cr? they used to be built in germany.

They're being made both in Germany and Czech Rep. I've never heard of any quality differences between the two. Cherry CZ is pretty much next door to the German headquarters by US or Aussie standards btw.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Tue, 15 June 2010, 06:46:13: Quote from: clickclack;193215
Tell me about it =P
LoLz!

I really agree with this, and I think a few people miss out on good keyboard (or at least one they would end up liking) because they didn't spend enough time with it.

I was given a Logitech Illuminated as a Birthday present, looked great, chrome black, perspex and lights. Drove me nuts after a couple of hours as it kept making spelling mistakes. Because it was a present I persevered and now quite it.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: clickclack on Tue, 15 June 2010, 06:51:50: cool =)

or wait... not cool? Wait a miniute...

Did you mean "quit using it" or "quite like it" ?
haahaaa
ya never know with these things =P
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Tue, 15 June 2010, 07:07:42: Quote from: clickclack;193236
cool =)

or wait... not cool? Wait a miniute...

Did you mean "quit using it" or "quite like it" ?
haahaaa
ya never know with these things =P

Oops, quite like it.
Note to self - select Australian/English in Word 2010.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Tue, 15 June 2010, 07:19:35: Quote from: clickclack;193215

I noticed you mentioned not wanting to risk buying certain boards because of loos/broken rivets. Well I don't know if you would be interested in it (especially since I don't think broken rivets make them all that different) but there was a great tutuorial on a "nut and bolt" mod you can easily do to the boards. Just do a search, courtesy of ripster and Sandy55.

I will follow that up. The trouble is postage or UPS or whatever adds about A$70-75 which is big bickies. I can post a Model M to the other side of Australia for about $12 now.
I was secretly hoping than ripster was going to send me a couple after upsetting Australians and Kiwis about OUR koalas. Since the boards haven’t arrived yet I will generously assume he sent them sea freight to save cost.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Hamburglar on Tue, 15 June 2010, 11:33:43: Quote from: ripster;193266
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11115&stc=1&d=1276613874)

(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8246/meanwhileinaustralia0si.jpg)
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Tue, 15 June 2010, 20:35:09: Quote from: ripster;193266
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11115&stc=1&d=1276613874)

Ah Ripster, by Appointment to her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the II purveyor of fine keyboards and provider of weird links.

Hopefully you are not planning a trip down under because our Kiwi cousins would say “Welcome to Auckland International Airport for your full cavity search”.
Title: Moving from a Model M to a Filco with Blue Cherries
Post by: Rusty Rat on Tue, 15 June 2010, 20:36:24: Quote from: Hamburglar;193294
Show Image
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8246/meanwhileinaustralia0si.jpg)

We understood your roads were crowded and provided a great alternative for more efficient use of space. The Chev Camaro made in Aussie and exported to GMH.