In the Tube Amp world you use Greenlee punches.
Unfortunately the non-round ones are limited in styles.Show Image(http://www.mygreenlee.com/GreenleeDotCom/products/upc/images/34420.JPG)
Plus, once again, we are talking .01" precision here or the keys start looking odd. Hard to do that with a punch.
I'd just go with straight PCB mount if I were you. That looks pretty simple since you're just drilling a line of straight holes. Set up a jig on a drill press and you're good to go.
If you just want to modify an existing plate a Dremel may do.[/URL]
If you want to punch a lot of holes into sheet metal yourself you might consider a spindle press:
example on ebay Germany (http://cgi.ebay.de/Top-Spindelpresse-Presse-Ageo-ESP6C-Druckkraft-60KN-/250651063975?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item3a5bf7b6a7)
No idea what they go for used. You have to make a two part tool for this. A stamp (?) the size of the hole and slightly larger hole below this. I think the tool needs to be hardened.
Or have it done at [URL=http://www.emachineshop.com]emachineshop.com (http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilesco-M93-Friction-Driven-Spindle-Press-Accessory-/370296912943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56376a7c2f), their software is made for 2D construction. And you have full choice of materials.
[/URL]Wilesco is a german toy steam engine company.
Would this work?
Pretty cheap? What die would work with it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilesco-M93-Friction-Driven-Spindle-Press-Accessory-/370296912943?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56376a7c2f
hmm, looks like there isn't enough room to run a plate through it though....?
Looking at the comparison, the plate won't match on the bottom, so going to have to somehow fabricate a new plate, which is probably going to be the hardest part.
My father had to file such a thing as a toolmaker apprentice. To add difficulty, they took the first part away after it was finished. So, with the second part he couldn't try. His was the only one that fit.
If you want to punch a lot of holes into sheet metal yourself you might consider a spindle press:
example on ebay Germany (http://cgi.ebay.de/Top-Spindelpresse-Presse-Ageo-ESP6C-Druckkraft-60KN-/250651063975?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item3a5bf7b6a7)
It went for EUR 1,50. Listed as "almost new". Buying an old press is probably the cheapest option.
Teensy is great. I have some here and look forward to put one into my Apple M0110 for a start.
Also, with the hand-wired approach you can use diodes instead of wire for the rows (or columns). Instant 6KRO.
You bought that spindle press??? lol nice deal wow. Wish I could find a deal like that. The problem using that method though is it looks like the dies could cost almost as much or more than the press from what I could find?
I don't see a bloody metal plate being the the most expensive part of this board as a realistic thing..
This was my experience as well when I was researching how to build a plate for my keyboard. One possibility is to find a place like Tech Shop (http://techshop.ws/tools_and_equipment.html) near you. They have all the equipment. You can learn and do it yourself! I've been wanting to try this place for a while.
Hmm, what material? Something hard huh? I just talked with Mchnichols:
http://www.mcnichols.com/ecommerce/eos/stocklist?navCode=cc:square&navCode=avc:aluminum
Even though they sell huge plates of pre punched materials like this, for around $100, they said it would be in the thousands of dollars to make a custom plate 11x4".
The custom plate would be so expensive because they probably need a tool to punch all the holes at once. Which would be kind of complex.
For a DIY solution using a spindle press it could look like this for ex.:Show Image(http://www.lowpoly.com/keyboard/spindle_press_tool.png)
Has to be made from a steel that can be hardened.
So basically you're saying I need two square hardened steel cubes, that I can't get in the first place. lol I actually have a lot of chisels from stone sculpting that could probably be diamond sharpened into the square shape, but no idea where I'd get the part with the hole in it.
I'm not an expert here but I would think you need sharpened edges for a clean punch. Even a Greenlee isn't cheap and they make thousands of the suckers.
I think it's doable in like 3-5 hours...
Ouch. The only things I like to do for that amount of time is disc golf and sex.Well, I do stuff like this 7h per day, 5-6 days per week, for a living!
True, and my view on it is probably very biased for mentioned reason...
Just wanted to point out that he could be already done, considering how long it seems to take finding a different method! :/
This looks interesting....smallish holes, but potential.
Check with seller how far away from the edge you can punch.
Damn, $95 for a set of blanks. That's dumb. I mean, Unicomp sells them for $20 (which you might even be able to argue is high itself). They can't just throw a few caps in bag and send them your way for around $20?
You can grab a set of Filco caps (blank or w/legends) for about $30 + shipping from Elitekeyboards. It won't help you for the custom stuff, but at least it'll give you a bunch to work with.
It's a real shame I can't use this plate. The plate is perfect except for the right shift, which is in precisely the wrong place for me to put a shrunken right shift and another arrow key. If it wasn't for that one bad section I could cut down the plate and use it as is.Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4075/4743519162_862c50f09d_b.jpg)
"I don't yet have the list of the enter keys, I will send that tomorrow when I get back in the office, but volume pricing for the blank set would be as follows:
1 set $95 / set
5 sets $30 / set
10 sets $23 / set
15 sets $20 / set
20 sets $19 / set
If you were to only order the bottom row of keys (we actually call this Row4) - I am assuming 9-single sized keys and 4 larger sized keys including the space bar, volume pricing for that would be:
1 set $85 / set
5 sets $20 / set
10 sets $12 / set
15 sets $10 / set
20 sets $8 / set
I know one set seems like alot, but when you spread that setup time over a larger quantity of keys, the unit price goes down.
Again, we are talking blank keys - no printing whatsoever, and this does not include freight/shipping.
Let me know if you have any questions - I will get that list of enter keys over to you tomorrow.
Thanks!"
Nice, you could convert that to iges and import into the emachineshop software. I'll stop mentioning emachineshop now. :-)
Here's a CNC punch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHU0a03OPM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHU0a03OPM)
So your plate might be possible without special tools.
Really interesting. That does look like what I need. My next step is to design the pcb wiring. Then I'll probably try to put them all together and design a case in a 3d program, so I can figure out where the holes will go for screws as well.
Nice start! Here are a few of my thoughts:
- you could greatly simplify this if you route all your columns on one side of the board, and all your rows on the other. Even with mounts for both Alps and Cherry switches, you should have plenty of room for the traces.
- you'll have much better results if you use PCB drawing software rather than Illustrator for this kind of work. Besides, you'll need to if you want to send these off to be made.
- Maybe it might be better to ditch the teensy++ and just go with the straight components. Trying to layer a teensy over the keyboard really complicates things. Look at the AT90USB chip on the teensy, it's ... well it's teensy. You could put it down in the blank area where the spacebar goes.
I've only used ExpressPCBs software (which is extremely easy to use), though I've dabbled with a few others. If you want to give it a try, I'll be happy to lend you a hand. There's also kicad (http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/). I'm going to do the next version of my board using that, so I'm not tied to only one board vendor.
I don't think I have the budget to send them out to be done for the price you quoted. Unless they have a deal like Signature plastics where they actually sell more for less...
I think I'm going to have to do it myself. I don't think its going to be impossible.
I didn't see any other way to do the layout without extending the size of the pcb...
If I put the chip directly on the board then it becomes something that I definitely can't do on my own, and I'm not sure that putting the chip near the spacebar is possible without making the traces very small, which they are on the chip already.
It would surely increase the price.
Just a thought, but maybe, since the teensy board is only 0.7 inches wide, you could mount it sideways at a board edge using 90 degree angle pin headers. One edge would be a regular short 90 degree header, and the other edge would be a long one. I found some long ones online that might fit the bill.Show Image(http://akamai.globalsources.com.edgesuite.net/f/593/3445/5d/pdt.static.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/BIG/015/B1003427015.jpg) (http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/I/Right-angle/p/sm/1003427015.htm)
Might work?
You know, with those three methods of running a cable, there's no need to have the teensy rigidly attached to the main board. You could use solid wire ribbon cable and attach the teensy directly to the edge of the main board, then fold it over so it lays flush with the board.
Some questions and suggestions:
You'll want to go through and eliminate all the sharp bends in your traces. They tend to get eaten during etching, leaving you with very thin corners.
The 4 traces running between the alps mounts on the top row look awfully tight. Do you have any actual measurements for the trace widths and the distance between them? What about the pads? How much copper are you leaving around the holes?
Just curious - how do you plan on drilling the 400+ holes?
Looking better!
Some considerations:
I notice that there are no diodes in your layout. This would mean that you'd have to turn on ghost-key blocking in the firmware. With a strict grid layout as you've done, you're likely going to run into problems with your modifier keys. For keyboards without diodes, some thought usually goes into how to arrange the matrix so that modifier keys don't cause ghost-key blocking. Dave Dribin's site (http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/) has a good description of the problem, and the solution with diodes.
If the trace length does turn out to be a problem, you could shorten them somewhat by running half the rows over the top of the column traces and the other half (or 2/5ths as the case may be) around the bottom of the column traces. This can be accommodated by moving the through-holes for the columns up from the bottom slightly - maybe even between the keys. This would also help you avoid the problem I mentioned before, with too many traces crunched between the holes for the Alps key mounts in the top row.
maybe you can show me how to turn the anti-ghosting feature on on the teensy.
BlockGhostKeys:no
BlockGhostKeys:yes
Finally got the blank pcb for this. Was like a month lead time... If I sell these I'm going to have to order a huge quantity or find faster source. Still waiting on the caps. Going to build a 3d model next. Taking a 3d modeling course, so hopefully can do it for one of my projects.
Finished a cap render, well sort of finished, some places are still kind of rough I noticed after the render.Show Image(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4819965766_33bc9e8a29_b.jpg)
Just get a PCB made. 33 bucks (~50 shipped) will get you a 2layer board from 4pcb/advancedpcb if you're a student. good quality, good turnaround, good prices. I've used them for projects a few times and recommend them.This was exactly what I was looking for. Good to know if I ever make my own.
As for layout, get the altium designer trial edition. fully featured for 30 days.
Just get a PCB made. 33 bucks (~50 shipped) will get you a 2layer board from 4pcb/advancedpcb if you're a student. good quality, good turnaround, good prices. I've used them for projects a few times and recommend them.
As for layout, get the altium designer trial edition. fully featured for 30 days.