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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Buckling_Summer on Wed, 23 June 2010, 05:43:34
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I am talking about my new keyboard Siig Minitouch model KB-1948 (geekhack spacesaver edition)
I am very pleased with the tactility and clickiness of the Alps-like switches of my keyboard. It is a pleasure to type on it. I think I am getting addicted with the crisp full sound of Siig Minitouch keys actuating without any problem.
But, i notice that the "ENTER" key behaves a little awkward when it is hit in the bottom-left angle. It feels like it gets stuck and it is hard to budge the way the other keys (even the "SPACE" key) usually budge.
When the "ENTER" key is pressed in the bottom right angle or in the center of the key or even in the upper part, it feels like a ALPS key!
Do brothers out there know if this is an existing problem or if my "ENTER" key is unfortunately malfunctioning? :ear:
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Yours isn't the only one, mine does this too.
If you pop the cap off (Be careful of the stabilizers) you can see that the switch is mounted halfway up the vertical portion of the enter key, and I think this may have something to do with that.
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Yours isn't the only one, mine does this too.
If you pop the cap off (Be careful of the stabilizers) you can see that the switch is mounted halfway up the vertical portion of the enter key, and I think this may have something to do with that.
I popped the cap off, I think I did not hurt the stabilizers, and I saw what you described.. In touch typing we must follow the principle (!) of hitting the center of the key always. This Siig ENTER key is a good reason for following that principle.
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The thing is that we are hitting where we expect the center of a normal, horizontal enter key to be.
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I must hit the center of the key because I've never noticed the issue before, but I just tried the far left corner and I can see exactly what you're talking about. If you press stabilized or long keys on a far corner from the switch, this can happen on many keyboards. Even on a Northgate I have here, if I press the enter key on a far corner away from the switch I can feel a little binding.
That's funny, I haven't thought about how we're supposed to press the center of each key touch typing since I was in typing class when I was about 14. About 1/4 of our class used computers, the rest were on IBM Selectric typewriters.
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This is a problem with the fake alps, because they tend to flex a bit, even when mounted in a plate because of the flimsy solder points. What you can do is replace that switch with a complicated, and also you can grease the stabilizers which will help also. But yeah it's common all boards. What happens is you're leveraging the key against the stabilizers which are on the right side of the key. Greasing them is the best solution.
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I have keyboards with Complicated ALPS that do the same thing or worse. I can prove it with a force gauge. And it's not just ALPS. I have had Monterey, Cherry, NEC, HiTek and IBM's that do it as well. The stabilizers are there to compensate and help overcome binding when you push a different part of the key, but they aren't always perfect.
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I have keyboards with Complicated ALPS that do the same thing or worse. I can prove it with a force gauge. And it's not just ALPS. I have had Monterey, Cherry, NEC, HiTek and IBM's that do it as well. The stabilizers are there to compensate and help overcome binding when you push a different part of the key, but they aren't always perfect.
Wonder if a little PTFE/Teflon magic dust would help?
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The stabilizers are there to compensate and help overcome binding when you push a different part of the key, but they aren't always perfect.
Except on the MS Ergo 4000 where the stabilizer in the space bar is the actual cause of the binding! :rofl:
I must revisit that board. It's only the atrocious space bar action that makes it unusable.
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This is a problem with the fake alps, because they tend to flex a bit, even when mounted in a plate because of the flimsy solder points. What you can do is replace that switch with a complicated, and also you can grease the stabilizers which will help also. But yeah it's common all boards. What happens is you're leveraging the key against the stabilizers which are on the right side of the key. Greasing them is the best solution.
I have a Siig Minitouch and it is balky. The switches are simplified "XM" alps as far as I can tell. Somebody on here called it "typing on cornflakes" and that's exactly it.
After you crunch through that cornflake at the top of the stroke, there's very little linear resistance between the "tactile cornflake bump" and bottoming out. Yuck.
The resistance varies a lot if you hit the key not quite on center, or if you press not quite straight down. Yuck.
Was hoping this Minitouch would feel like a Northgate. Nope.
This is a review. Avoid anything with XM alps, they're weird.
The Minitouch with any other switch would probably be fine. The enter key is odd, it has a vertical stabilizer but no horizontal stabilizer, and so it may balk if you strike it at its leftmost edge, but the other 2/3s of the key works.
On the XMs, greasing the posts did help. I'm a bad typist, my fingers fall all over the place. Model Ms forgive me. XM Alps don't; grease helps somewhat.
I used automotive bulb grease, which costs 99 cents at autozone:
http://www.supremehardware.com/servlet/the-31094/AGS-BULB-GREASE/Detail (http://www.supremehardware.com/servlet/the-31094/AGS-BULB-GREASE/Detail)
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Avoid anything with XM alps, they're weird.
New data point. As these XM switches age, the cornflake crunch is softening up. The most common keys are mellowing out. That's a good thing. The least commonly used keys are still stiff, the most commonly used keys are getting nicer.
Keyboard "break in" is not a myth.
Oops, I spent my ripometer on M&Ms at the vending machine.
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These XMs feel like candy! Yes they seem to be more sweeter now, after some months of continuous use.
Would you mind helping me with the greasing part? You said to buy the grease bulb. Where am i supposed to placed it? *the ENTER key problem has been very annoying.
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Happy New Year. I hope 2012 would be a tactile-clicky year!
So months have passed and nobody gave help.. So I am suppossed to repeat my request:
ENTER, CTRL, SHIFT, RETURN keys in Siig Minitouch are very unforgiving when pressed on the edges (not in center).
Friend jpc proposed greasing. I am not used in greasing. Has anyone tried it? Did it help?
If those aforementioned keys had better stabilizers, it could be probably the best and sweetest keyboard in the whole world.
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You could take the switches apart and remove the tactile leaves.
The Minitouch would be fine as a linear keyboard. I have a full size black ALPS board converted to linear, came out very nice.
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You could take the switches apart and remove the tactile leaves.
The Minitouch would be fine as a linear keyboard. I have a full size black ALPS board converted to linear, came out very nice.
Sorry I will not mesh with the internals. Taking switches apart is not my expertise.:playball:
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Montery Siig FTW!
Does ping a bit though.
I lost the chance of obtaining a Monterey Siig. Do you mean that's sweeter than my SIIG? BTW what does "ping" really mean?