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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: zslane on Mon, 23 March 2020, 13:02:14
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
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What's so special about BOX switches?
Silenced Brown: Gateron Silent Brown, of which KbdFans' Aliaz switch is a variant
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nope
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Don't think so, because they have trouble to even make the tactile box switch work properly so it is unlikely that they can make silent. To clarify: box brown can turn clicky! Yes, quite hilarious.
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What's so special about BOX switches?
Silenced Brown: Gateron Silent Brown, of which KbdFans' Aliaz switch is a variant
Two things: BOX switches seem to have less wobble, but they also lack the plastic standoff legs that make it impossible to install on most hotswap boards (without a lot of snipping work I don't want to do).
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Hey just want to pop in here and say I m very very wrong.
Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
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Hey just want to pop in here and say I m very very wrong.
Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
That's fantastic news. I may have to pick up some silent reds, maybe. I had already been thinking about trying silent Cherry MX reds, due to how some people seem to rave about them, and I already use the non silent version with my gaming rig anyway.
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Hey just want to pop in here and say I m very very wrong.
Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
That's fantastic news. I may have to pick up some silent reds, maybe. I had already been thinking about trying silent Cherry MX reds, due to how some people seem to rave about them, and I already use the non silent version with my gaming rig anyway.
Ha ha I cant wait and already order a bag of silent brown. I know the box brown has let me down but all and all it still is a very unique tactile switch due to the clickbar mechanism. I really prefer that sharp feedback over the rounded feeling of cherry design. If this goes right, I can say bye to the T1 and commit my life fully to box switches.
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Hey just want to pop in here and say I m very very wrong.
Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
That's fantastic news. I may have to pick up some silent reds, maybe. I had already been thinking about trying silent Cherry MX reds, due to how some people seem to rave about them, and I already use the non silent version with my gaming rig anyway.
Ha ha I cant wait and already order a bag of silent brown. I know the box brown has let me down but all and all it still is a very unique tactile switch due to the clickbar mechanism. I really prefer that sharp feedback over the rounded feeling of cherry design. If this goes right, I can say bye to the T1 and commit my life fully to box switches.
Kaihua seems to usually be pretty perceptive of criticism. Maybe they've resolved the linearisation problem with their tactiles? I agree on box brown feeling. Literally the only modern tactile family I have tried (I haven't tried any fancy boutique switches) that wasn't terrible.
Which switches have they even silenced so far? It would be pretty humorous if they even did it to their thunderous clickies, like navies.
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They are offering box silence brown - tactile, and box silent link - linear as of now. To my understanding, they are silencing their oem switches. The thick click bar (jade and navy) switches are in collab with novel keys so i guess they are not touching them for now?
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They are offering box silence brown - tactile, and box silent link - linear as of now. To my understanding, they are silencing their oem switches. The thick click bar (jade and navy) switches are in collab with novel keys so i guess they are not touching them for now?
Have they got specs on these anywhere else? I wonder what the heck they mean by "Operational Force". That product page literally uses the words red and pink interchangeably. Interesting that there's a box pink clicky ... but now there's a box pink linear, if any of this is even translated properly.
Only rated to 1/10th of the cycles of regular box switches? That must be a typo.
Why not, let's roll the dice. I ordered two packs of 70 of the silent "pink" switches. I suppose it is about time I get a hot swap board for them as well then.
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Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
Link please? A search on aliexpress failed to turn up the silent box switches. Thanks!
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Apparently Kailh just releases the silent box switches, avail on aliexpress now.
Link please? A search on aliexpress failed to turn up the silent box switches. Thanks!
kailh box Silent Switch Mechanical Keyboard diy RGB/SMD Pink Brown switch Dustproof IP56 waterproof Compatible Cherry MX (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000832368223.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.2bb648956xDhAL&algo_pvid=50e8235d-c2c7-41e9-b67d-17e745cb51f6&algo_expid=50e8235d-c2c7-41e9-b67d-17e745cb51f6-0&btsid=0be3743615857581321275948e1cf8&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)
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Link please? A search on aliexpress failed to turn up the silent box switches. Thanks!
https://kailh.aliexpress.com/store/4670072?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.13e5d06fkabL8N
Just on their official store page, there is a banner for this new product
Have they got specs on these anywhere else? I wonder what the heck they mean by "Operational Force". That product page literally uses the words red and pink interchangeably. Interesting that there's a box pink clicky ... but now there's a box pink linear, if any of this is even translated properly.
Only rated to 1/10th of the cycles of regular box switches? That must be a typo.
Why not, let's roll the dice. I ordered two packs of 70 of the silent "pink" switches. I suppose it is about time I get a hot swap board for them as well then.
Looking at the chart I think operational force = actuation force. Because they point to the the actuation point in the chart when they talk about operational force.
And with the pink and red thing, one person from another mech group Im in, who regularly is in contact with suppliers in China and specializes in Kailh products, said that initially they started with silent red box switch since there is already a pink clicky switch. Then essentially they changed because they don't want to be confused with cherry silent red. But again, the source is just a person on the internet so please take that with a grain of salt.
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
https://twitter.com/KailhSwitch/status/1239791913361788931 KAILH SILENT BOX SWITCH
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
https://twitter.com/KailhSwitch/status/1239791913361788931 KAILH SILENT BOX SWITCH
Nice. We've summoned Kaihua themselves, hopefully without the use of goat sacrifice.
These look great and all, but a common complaint with Cherry MX and Kailh box red switches is that they're already too light. Is there a reason that these silent switches are even lighter? Are the springs the same as in the other box designs? I might have to order some stiffer ones.
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
https://twitter.com/KailhSwitch/status/1239791913361788931 KAILH SILENT BOX SWITCH
Nice. We've summoned Kaihua themselves, hopefully without the use of goat sacrifice.
These look great and all, but a common complaint with Cherry MX and Kailh box red switches is that they're already too light. Is there a reason that these silent switches are even lighter? Are the springs the same as in the other box designs? I might have to order some stiffer ones.
I think we will see other variations not long after these are live. :D
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The published force graph and figures (https://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=105444.0;attach=239146) of the "Kailh Silent Brown Box" do remind me more of something that would go head-to-head against Zilents V2 rather than Gateron Silent Brown: 65gf tactile peak at 0.6 mm travel !!
I'm looking forward to reviews .. and testing it myself.
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Even in their tweets, they say it is silent box red lol
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Even in their tweets, they say it is silent box red lol
They are releasing both. The tactile is mentioned only briefly in the comments.
See the announcement thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105444). (I'm sorry I thought the link had been posted above. I edit my previous post with link to the datasheet)
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Even in their tweets, they say it is silent box red lol
They are releasing both. The tactile is mentioned only briefly in the comments.
See the announcement thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105444). (I'm sorry I thought the link had been posted above. I edit my previous post with link to the datasheet)
No you dont get it, on their aliexpress store they call it both red switch and pink switch. The linear one. So me and others in here have talked about how the terms have been used interchangeably.
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on their aliexpress store they call it both red switch and pink switch.
Yeah, Kailh is not well-known to be very consistent in writing (...). The datasheet even includes a footprint for a switch with fixing pins, but a variation with fixing pins can't be found anywhere: I think that no Box switch has even been seen with any. (Edit: Kailh Box Crystal has fixing pins. Still the only one I've seen) Other switches' specs have also been slightly different on different pages and data sheets ...
I suppose that "Silent Red Box" is supposed to be the official name but that the slider is pink only to match the switch named "Cherry MX Silent Red" which also actually has a pink-ish slider.
Some keyboard manufacturers, such as Filco have even taken upon themselves to call the latter switch "Cherry MX Pink" ...
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Thanks, guys! You all rock!
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Why not, let's roll the dice. I ordered two packs of 70 of the silent "pink" switches. I suppose it is about time I get a hot swap board for them as well then.
Hey just wonder how are your orders processing so far? It has been a week but mine hasn't been shipped yet. I did hit them up on the 4th but they said something about Tomb Sweeping Holidays so they are taking days off. But I have not seen anything until today. The 8th.
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Why not, let's roll the dice. I ordered two packs of 70 of the silent "pink" switches. I suppose it is about time I get a hot swap board for them as well then.
Hey just wonder how are your orders processing so far? It has been a week but mine hasn't been shipped yet. I did hit them up on the 4th but they said something about Tomb Sweeping Holidays so they are taking days off. But I have not seen anything until today. The 8th.
Honestly, I haven't even been able to get ahold of my credit union to make sure the purchases go through. Aliexpress was giving me some Verified by Visa error having to do with updated information, and I haven't been able to resolve that yet. A 130 switch tester I ordered back in early January, which KPrepublic eventually told me was out of stock, and then everyone vanished for the Chinese New Year ... and then COVID happened, finally shipped on the 16th of March, but it hasn't had any updates at all since the 18th. It seems to be in some Chinese customs purgatory still.
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Honestly, I haven't even been able to get ahold of my credit union to make sure the purchases go through. Aliexpress was giving me some Verified by Visa error having to do with updated information, and I haven't been able to resolve that yet. A 130 switch tester I ordered back in early January, which KPrepublic eventually told me was out of stock, and then everyone vanished for the Chinese New Year ... and then COVID happened, finally shipped on the 16th of March, but it hasn't had any updates at all since the 18th. It seems to be in some Chinese customs purgatory still.
Alright. I just dropped them another message. I hope I don't offend them because this tomb sweeping thing sounds kind of like a big deal to them.
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Apparently all three of us decided to order testers around the same time, and our experience all matches up. I have an Outemu tester I ordered from KDBfans and nothing on it.
Not surprising because of COVID, but it's still got me worried.
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on a seperate note, I think it's funny that this thread was posted and all of a sudden the switches OP asked about materialized.
Could I ask OP to ask about Beam Silo's as well? I'd appreciate the favor.
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Honestly it depends. Like KBDfan straight up announce that they will no longer ship to the UK, until further notice. YMDK and KPrepublic still process their orders normally. In fact I think if you order st from KPrepublic now and message them "we stand together", they will give you a special cap.
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Hey there, NovelKeys has some now! Box silent pinks and box silent browns...
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Hey there, NovelKeys has some now! Box silent pinks and box silent browns...
Yes, that's part of the conversation. Kailh released them literally while this thread was active. lol
I ordered some, but after waiting a month, they were just returned to the sender. It will probably still be some time before I have any box silent reds(pinks) to play with.
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Yeah, it looks like my order was just cancelled on me. I need to make a claim to get my money back now.
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Yeah, it looks like my order was just cancelled on me. I need to make a claim to get my money back now.
I had to do the same with the ones that were returned to sender.
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I ordered some about a month ago from AliExpress. Tracking information says that they have been accepted by customs and are with the last-mile carrier. Expected delivery: tomorrow. :eek:
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I ordered some about a month ago from AliExpress. Tracking information says that they have been accepted by customs and are with the last-mile carrier. Expected delivery: tomorrow. :eek:
You've won the Aliexpress lottery. They should welcome you to a personal tour of their facilities, like in Willy Wonka. I am jealous.
Which variant did you order?
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I ordered the Silent Brown, a very small quantity.
I may have won the AliExpress lottery, but I have not necessarily won the Canada Post lottery yet. They were actually received and accepted in-country two weeks ago. The mail is experiencing Christmas-level shipping and delays, so it's the last mile carrier that has been the uncertain factor for this purchase.
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I ordered the Silent Brown, a very small quantity.
I may have won the AliExpress lottery, but I have not necessarily won the Canada Post lottery yet. They were actually received and accepted in-country two weeks ago. The mail is experiencing Christmas-level shipping and delays, so it's the last mile carrier that has been the uncertain factor for this purchase.
USPS has been crazy as well. My switch tester, which I ordered back in early February from KPrepublic, which didn't ship until after COVID was in full swing, sat in some alternate dimension somewhere in Chicago for two weeks once it did finally make it to the U.S.
I would be very interested to hear your impressions once they've mysteriously materialized on your doorstep from their long journey through Narnia.
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Yeah, long journey indeed. The 'last-mile' for me is actually 1,443 miles.
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Quick update from me. Look like i have also won the lottery from Aliexpress too.
The box silent is very.... silent. It is a strange switch I must say. On your hand it does not give any tactile feeling, however once mounted on a board it does give a distinctive feedback to your fingers. Which is decent.
It seems to sound like scratchy but I really doubt that it is scratchy. The bump is factory lube and the stem is in excellent condition. More like the sound is super dampened so it gives off tiny bit of sound and the bump is super sharp so in general you have the impression of scratchiness.
The tactility though. Bois. Ok . It is more than box white but no way near box jade, which is my go to switches. So I think i won't be keeping it, but they are quite decent so im looking around if I don't find any way to make T1 more quiet or other silent switches then these will surely go to my office keyboard.
By the way, if box brown is your thing, this is a great silent option.
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Quick update from me. Look like i have also won the lottery from Aliexpress too.
The box silent is very.... silent. It is a strange switch I must say. On your hand it does not give any tactile feeling, however once mounted on a board it does give a distinctive feedback to your fingers. Which is decent.
It seems to sound like scratchy but I really doubt that it is scratchy. The bump is factory lube and the stem is in excellent condition. More like the sound is super dampened so it gives off tiny bit of sound and the bump is super sharp so in general you have the impression of scratchiness.
The tactility though. Bois. Ok . It is more than box white but no way near box jade, which is my go to switches. So I think i won't be keeping it, but they are quite decent so im looking around if I don't find any way to make T1 more quiet or other silent switches then these will surely go to my office keyboard.
By the way, if box brown is your thing, this is a great silent option.
So you ordered the browns. I ordered the reds. I would rather have linears than tactiles because tactiles aren't tactile enough anyway, besides maybe box royals, and then it still just makes me miss the wonderful clicks, and the sharp crisp tactility of clickies. You find them to be very smooth in use, but they sound scratchy? I know regular box browns always felt pretty pleasantly smooth to me.
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So you ordered the browns. I ordered the reds. I would rather have linears than tactiles because tactiles aren't tactile enough anyway, besides maybe box royals, and then it still just makes me miss the wonderful clicks, and the sharp crisp tactility of clickies. You find them to be very smooth in use, but they sound scratchy? I know regular box browns always felt pretty pleasantly smooth to me.
I guess what im trying to say is the bump is sharp but much smaller than box jade, which is what i am used to. Like how box jade tactility is like a sudden drop when you walk then box silent is kicking on a rock when you are walking. Not a big rock, you know you kicked it along the way, but it didnt make much of an impact for your travel. Im terrible at describing this but this sharp and small bump gives the impression of scratchiness when pressing. I should not have said "sound like", because in term of actual sound the switch is very silent.
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So you ordered the browns. I ordered the reds. I would rather have linears than tactiles because tactiles aren't tactile enough anyway, besides maybe box royals, and then it still just makes me miss the wonderful clicks, and the sharp crisp tactility of clickies. You find them to be very smooth in use, but they sound scratchy? I know regular box browns always felt pretty pleasantly smooth to me.
I guess what im trying to say is the bump is sharp but much smaller than box jade, which is what i am used to. Like how box jade tactility is like a sudden drop when you walk then box silent is kicking on a rock when you are walking. Not a big rock, you know you kicked it along the way, but it didnt make much of an impact for your travel. Im terrible at describing this but this sharp and small bump gives the impression of scratchiness when pressing. I should not have said "sound like", because in term of actual sound the switch is very silent.
Tactiles are always like that. It is hard to fairly compare them against clickies. The best tactility, in my opinion (and that of others), is only possible from a clicky switch, as tactility normally necessitates a click. Tactiles, in contrast, have the goal of trying to produce tactility without generating any sound, so they've got to jump through some hoops in order to accomplish that. I'm somewhat surprised that they may feel scratchy as their regular box browns do not to me, surely not in comparison to Mx browns. In terms of grit, what would they compare most closely to of what you've tried?
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I guess what im trying to say is the bump is sharp but much smaller than box jade, which is what i am used to. Like how box jade tactility is like a sudden drop when you walk then box silent is kicking on a rock when you are walking.
How are they with keycaps? Do you think they will crack GMK stems? I'm curious about the new round stem design.
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How are they with keycaps? Do you think they will crack GMK stems? I'm curious about the new round stem design.
They are great when mounted on a board. I specifically use SA keycaps so I can't speak for other profile, but i really enjoy typing on them. The feed back to my fingers are definitely clear and it is very quiet. Im looking to build a keyboard for office use and this is certainly a contender.
The stem cracking is not a thing now, as far as I am aware of. Since the time of box pink I think Kailh fixed the problem. I use v3 box jade on Maxket SA keycaps for months and until now there has not been any crack on caps stems yet.
Tactiles are always like that. It is hard to fairly compare them against clickies. The best tactility, in my opinion (and that of others), is only possible from a clicky switch, as tactility normally necessitates a click. Tactiles, in contrast, have the goal of trying to produce tactility without generating any sound, so they've got to jump through some hoops in order to accomplish that. I'm somewhat surprised that they may feel scratchy as their regular box browns do not to me, surely not in comparison to Mx browns. In terms of grit, what would they compare most closely to of what you've tried?
What do you mean by grit?
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Thanks for the update. I will try them with some extra GMK keycaps I use for testing.
By 'grit,' he probably means the feel of particulate matter in the switch. As in, is there sand in the switch? Particles you can feel when depressing the slider? Instead of smoothness, are you feeling random tactile matter? That seems to be what 'grit' is.
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Yeah then no. Like I said in took apart one switch to inspect on it closer. The surface of the stem is very smooth. I cant speak for the housing though I guess im making the assumption here that it is also smooth. The contact bump is factory lubed. If you guys are thinking mx brown sand kind of thing then definitely no. Nothing like that. I have seen reviews online calling the tactile BOX silent scratchy. I admit my first impression was that pressing on it feels "like scratchy". However the more I use and examine it, my conclusion is that Kailh was trying hard for the bump to have this sharp tactility (mimicking the clickbar kind of tactility I assume here) and couples with how small the bump is, overall it gives this kind of abrupt bump which can be mistaken to be scratchiness.
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Yeah then no. Like I said in took apart one switch to inspect on it closer. The surface of the stem is very smooth. I cant speak for the housing though I guess im making the assumption here that it is also smooth. The contact bump is factory lubed. If you guys are thinking mx brown sand kind of thing then definitely no. Nothing like that. I have seen reviews online calling the tactile BOX silent scratchy. I admit my first impression was that pressing on it feels "like scratchy". However the more I use and examine it, my conclusion is that Kailh was trying hard for the bump to have this sharp tactility (mimicking the clickbar kind of tactility I assume here) and couples with how small the bump is, overall it gives this kind of abrupt bump which can be mistaken to be scratchiness.
I imagine the mechanism is the same as box browns and royals then, which both feel pretty good to me, not being a tactile guy.
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I just opened my BOX Silent Browns.
The first thing that strikes me is that these are very light. They can't weigh much more than regular BOX Browns, and may even weigh less. Anyway, they're definitely Brown-weighted. I tested them beside some 63.5 gr Ergo Clears, and the BOX feel as light, or lighter.
The second thing is that they aren't very tactile. They may be slightly less tactile than regular BOX Browns, but I'll have to test them side-by-side. They have a similar profile as BOX Brown. There is a tactile resistance right at the top that has to be overcome, and then it just drops. I recall BOX Brown as having a steeper and starker 'drop' that felt more like a buckling mechanism.
It's a profile that resembles Zilents, but less steep, less tactile. Someone recently said that they feel midway in between Zilents and Aliaz, maybe closer to Aliaz, and I agree with that in terms of overall tactility. But the bump profile is closer to Zilents than Aliaz.
They're basically a less tactile, less sharp Zilent. That may be good or bad for you.
Third, they're definitely silent. They are much quieter than the Ergo Clears they are running beside. They might be quieter than Aliaz, since there is no weird spring noise.
Overall, these appear to be perfectly functional silent switches. They are a not-too tactile version of BOX Browns or even Zilents. They feel consistent and fairly smooth, but also kind of boring. Like these haven't been designed to wow you or anything, just function as a silent Brown using the BOX design.
I took a risk and have a couple of GMK keycaps on them right now, and it sounds and feels fine. Nothing has cracked yet. I think I may enjoy the KBDFans Dolch more with these switches. Very quiet and stable.
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I just opened my BOX Silent Browns.
The first thing that strikes me is that these are very light. They can't weigh much more than regular BOX Browns, and may even weigh less. Anyway, they're definitely Brown-weighted. I tested them beside some 63.5 gr Ergo Clears, and the BOX feel as light, or lighter.
The second thing is that they aren't very tactile. They may be slightly less tactile than regular BOX Browns, but I'll have to test them side-by-side. They have a similar profile as BOX Brown. There is a tactile resistance right at the top that has to be overcome, and then it just drops. I recall BOX Brown as having a steeper and starker 'drop' that felt more like a buckling mechanism.
It's a profile that resembles Zilents, but less steep, less tactile. Someone recently said that they feel midway in between Zilents and Aliaz, maybe closer to Aliaz, and I agree with that in terms of overall tactility. But the bump profile is closer to Zilents than Aliaz.
They're basically a less tactile, less sharp Zilent. That may be good or bad for you.
Third, they're definitely silent. They are much quieter than the Ergo Clears they are running beside. They might be quieter than Aliaz, since there is no weird spring noise.
Overall, these appear to be perfectly functional silent switches. They are a not-too tactile version of BOX Browns or even Zilents. They feel consistent and fairly smooth, but also kind of boring. Like these haven't been designed to wow you or anything, just function as a silent Brown using the BOX design.
I took a risk and have a couple of GMK keycaps on them right now, and it sounds and feels fine. Nothing has cracked yet. I think I may enjoy the KBDFans Dolch more with these switches. Very quiet and stable.
Nice. Thanks for the update. That makes me even more glad I got the linears. Box browns are already a little too lacking on the tactility for me, at least for tactiles. If the tactile event is sharp and crisp, like most clickies, then I don't mind it being relatively slight (capacitive buckling spring, box whites, etc).
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Welllll, it's all relative.
When I say BOX (Silent) Browns aren't very tactile, I mean that in comparison to the new generation of super-tactile switches, such as Holy Pandas, or Zealio V2.
In comparison to MX Brown, they are more tactile. Some people say that they are more tactile than regular BOX Browns. I would say that BOX Silent Browns are medium tactility, if on the lower end. They occupy this category together with MX Clears. I have Ergo Clears [63.5 Progressive] that are less tactile than these BOX Silent Browns, and Ergo Clears that are more tactile [60 gr actuation].
I had someone else type on these just now. They thought that the BOX Silent Browns were "heavier" than both 63.5 gr Ergo Clears, and 78 gr H1 switches. Now, the H1 switches are obviously heavier in spring weight, but because they have little tactility, the BOX Silent Browns actually seemed 'heavier' than the H1s.
Personally, I find that the BOX Silent Browns are more tactile than Cherry Browns, maybe even the less-tactile Ergo Clear variants. But I find them a little harsh. Because once you clear that initial bump, it just slams down like Zilents. And the BOX Silent Browns only have 3.6mm of travel. So it's a bit of a slam-slam. At least you know you're typing.
I think these might be a good candidate for a stock custom switch at KBDFans or Varmilo. Like if you need a 65% or something that's quiet, order a TADA68 / VA68M with BOX Silent Browns, and it's ready to go. Just add dampening.
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Welllll, it's all relative.
When I say BOX (Silent) Browns aren't very tactile, I mean that in comparison to the new generation of super-tactile switches, such as Holy Pandas, or Zealio V2.
In comparison to MX Brown, they are more tactile. Some people say that they are more tactile than regular BOX Browns. I would say that BOX Silent Browns are medium tactility, if on the lower end. They occupy this category together with MX Clears. I have Ergo Clears [63.5 Progressive] that are less tactile than these BOX Silent Browns, and Ergo Clears that are more tactile [60 gr actuation].
I had someone else type on these just now. They thought that the BOX Silent Browns were "heavier" than both 63.5 gr Ergo Clears, and 78 gr H1 switches. Now, the H1 switches are obviously heavier in spring weight, but because they have little tactility, the BOX Silent Browns actually seemed 'heavier' than the H1s.
Personally, I find that the BOX Silent Browns are more tactile than Cherry Browns, maybe even the less-tactile Ergo Clear variants. But I find them a little harsh. Because once you clear that initial bump, it just slams down like Zilents. And the BOX Silent Browns only have 3.6mm of travel. So it's a bit of a slam-slam. At least you know you're typing.
I think these might be a good candidate for a stock custom switch at KBDFans or Varmilo. Like if you need a 65% or something that's quiet, order a TADA68 / VA68M with BOX Silent Browns, and it's ready to go. Just add dampening.
That makes sense to me. I know I find MX blacks to be too fatiguing, but I can happily type away on box navies with some acclimation. I haven't felt ergo clears, but anything that's close to MX clears in tactility isn't half bad. I have no need, or desire, for tactiles anyway at the moment myself. If I were ever in a situation where I couldn't use my clickies at work, then I might scramble for a good dampened tactile switch. You're making me more and more interested in feeling the reds.
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If there's one thing these switches do right, it's the silencing. And the reds should be even quieter.
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I think BOX silent browns would have been good for me. I kinda feel that the tactility of regular BOX browns are a bit too sharp for my tastes, and so something that sits in between Cherry MX brown (not tactile enough) and Kailh BOX brown (a bit too tactile) seems just right for me. Maybe after this stupid pandemic has died down I'll actually receive an order of these switches.
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Well, I may not have described the tactility perfectly.
I've been testing them back-and-forth between BOX Brown and BOX Silent Brown.
It's definitely a similar structure: a tactile barrier right at the top of the switch, followed by collapse towards the bottom.
But the tactile resistance at the top might be slightly greater on the Silent Brown than on the Brown. When you break the tactile ceiling on the Silent Brown, you're already racing towards bottom-out. And you may be heading there more quickly, because of greater resistance at the top.
So I find that the bottom-out is a little harsh, given the quick collapse after the tactile event. Sure, it's dampened. But it's only 3.6mm of travel, so you hit bottom quickly. It ends up feeling like a less-tactile Zilent V2.
In contrast, the regular BOX Brown may have slightly less tactile resistance at the top. And it noticeably buckles once you clear it, and there's less momentum towards the bottom. So I find it a more fluid and less sharp/steep switch than BOX Silent Brown. But that's just my opinion.
So BOX Silent Brown isn't between MX Brown and BOX Brown. It might actually be sharper/steeper than BOX Brown.
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
We've made the silent box red and brown switch
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I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
https://twitter.com/KailhSwitch/status/1239791913361788931 KAILH SILENT BOX SWITCH
I like Kailh BOX switches, but I prefer silenced/damped switches. The only silenced MX-type switches I know of are silent red and black. Are there any silent BOX switches? And in particular, BOX Brown?
We've made the silent box red and brown switch
Yes, we're aware, thank you. I would be typing away on the reds already if mine weren't returned to sender for some reason.
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So BOX Silent Brown isn't between MX Brown and BOX Brown. It might actually be sharper/steeper than BOX Brown.
Maybe it's just a matter of subtle terminology differences? When I say "sharp", I refer to the fact that BOX Brown is so tactile that its tactility starts to feel and sound almost like a clicky switch over time, which is not really what I look for in a tactile switch. Is that even more the case with BOX Silent Browns?
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So BOX Silent Brown isn't between MX Brown and BOX Brown. It might actually be sharper/steeper than BOX Brown.
Maybe it's just a matter of subtle terminology differences? When I say "sharp", I refer to the fact that BOX Brown is so tactile that its tactility starts to feel and sound almost like a clicky switch over time, which is not really what I look for in a tactile switch. Is that even more the case with BOX Silent Browns?
The problem of box brown turning clicky i think was due to the factory lube wearing off. Multiple occasions people have reported that re apply the lube would silence the switch again, but for only a certain period. Box silent would do fine in this regard, not because of the lube getting better or anything but I think the sound of the whole switch is greatly dampened then even if the switch click a little you can totally neglect it.
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BOX Browns employ something of a binary 'bump' during the tactile process. It goes from some tactility right at the top into nothing [collapse mode]. That can be interpreted as 'sharp' or 'steep.' Some have likened it to a 'buckling mechanism' feel.
BOX Browns do turn clicky from the lube leaving the vestigal clickbar area. It's not as loud as a dedicated BOX clicky, though. So you have a kind of 'buckling' mechanism, plus switches turning clicky in sound, which leads to the perception of it becoming a 'clicky' switch. I think it's a tactile that borrows some of its tactility from being related to the BOX clicky family.
I couldn't really say if BOX Silent Brown would turn clicky. There seem to be some mitigating factors. [New stem design, plus dampening.]
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So BOX Silent Brown isn't between MX Brown and BOX Brown. It might actually be sharper/steeper than BOX Brown.
Maybe it's just a matter of subtle terminology differences? When I say "sharp", I refer to the fact that BOX Brown is so tactile that its tactility starts to feel and sound almost like a clicky switch over time, which is not really what I look for in a tactile switch. Is that even more the case with BOX Silent Browns?
It's hard to say. I think that BOX Browns have a slightly more of a 'buckling' feel than Silent Browns. Silent Browns are dampened and have new stems and maybe new housings. So I'm not sure if they will be able to reproduce the sound of BOX Browns gone clicky.
BOX Silent Brown feels like a top-mounted tactile with a steep drop, shortened by the 3.6mm travel.
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BOX Browns do turn clicky from the lube leaving the vestigal clickbar area. It's not as loud as a dedicated BOX clicky, though. So you have a kind of 'buckling' mechanism, plus switches turning clicky in sound, which leads to the perception of it becoming a 'clicky' switch. I think it's a tactile that borrows some of its tactility from being related to the BOX clicky family.
Box tactiles are sort of their own kind of animal though, aren't they? They're not exactly like any MX I know of, although the method of creating tactility is closest to MX. They use the box design, but the vehicle for tactility is entirely different from the click bar employed in the clicky switches of the same family, which is itself entirely novel.
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Maybe it's just a matter of subtle terminology differences? When I say "sharp", I refer to the fact that BOX Brown is so tactile that its tactility starts to feel and sound almost like a clicky switch over time, which is not really what I look for in a tactile switch. Is that even more the case with BOX Silent Browns?
I've tested it some more, and I would have to say that the BOX Silent Brown is more of a 'clicky' tactility than something like MX Brown. It's more 'binary,' in that it moves from 1 to 0 pretty quickly after the initial resistance. It isn't as jarring as with a clicky switch, but it borrows somewhat from that kind of tactility.
So these might not be the switch for you, unfortunately.
Have you tried OUTEMU Sky / Silent Sky? They are based on MX Clear tactility, especially the original non-silent Sky. They are definitely more tactile than MX Brown, but not outrageously tactile, at least in the non-silent variant.
Box tactiles are sort of their own kind of animal though, aren't they? They're not exactly like any MX I know of, although the method of creating tactility is closest to MX. They use the box design, but the vehicle for tactility is entirely different from the click bar employed in the clicky switches of the same family, which is itself entirely novel.
Yes, I have to say they are their own animal. They are relatively distinct from the Cherry-family tactility, and you can often tell BOX designs apart in blind-testing.
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It looks like my quest for an acceptable MX-style tactile switch continues.
I'm primarily a Topre user, and so I'm basically looking for something with 45g resistance and full 4mm travel like MX Red, but dampened/silenced and with tactility somewhere between Cherry MX Brown and Kailh BOX Brown.
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It looks like my quest for an acceptable MX-style tactile switch continues.
I'm primarily a Topre user, and so I'm basically looking for something with 45g resistance and full 4mm travel like MX Red, but dampened/silenced and with tactility somewhere between Cherry MX Brown and Kailh BOX Brown.
Then im afraid you will find none for now. The preferable method of dampening mx style switches are putting soft material on the stem to silence the upstroke, thus the total travel distance is reduced. This happens to silent mx black, silent mx red, and now the box silent.
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Good point.
I can relax the key travel constraint. That's less important to me than quiet operation.
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These sound like just the switches I've been looking for, so I just ordered 110 of them from Novelkeys. I'll be curious to see how these compare to Cherry browns with QMX Clips. Time for a soldering project!
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Mine look to finally be in the United States. I wonder how many weeks it will still take for the "partner facility" to actually get it to USPS. Almost nothing that I have ordered weeks prior to re-ordering the switches that were returned to sender has arrived yet, so I wonder why these are coming so fast all of a sudden.
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Now that Kailh has demonstrated that they can build using the circular BOX stems, I would like to see a BOX Brown V2. One that doesn't lose lube, which seems to cause the switch to go clicky. BOX Brown felt fine, it just had some flaws that perhaps could be corrected in a V2.
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I just finished soldering these into a Das Keyboard 4 last night. I have to agree with a lot of what's been said before. They're very tactile right at the top, considerably more so than Cherry browns, but then they just collapse. After typing on them for a while this morning, my silenced Topre Type Heaven feels almost linear. The box browns really have that much of a bump at the top. These are definitely quiet enough to have in the office. They're not quiet as Cherry browns with QMX Clips, but the travel isn't reduced as much, and the box browns obviously silence the upstroke and downstroke, regardless of the keycaps used. I can't say that about the QMX Clips. They don't silence the downstroke on far too many keycaps I've tried. For now, they're keepers, and I'm not instantly dying to replace them, which is how I felt about Cherry silent blacks on this same keyboard. The weight seems about perfect. The tactility will just take some getting used to. One thing I noticed is that these are easier to solder in crooked. It seems like the large alignment nub on the bottom of the switch is shallower than the one on Cherry switches, or possibly not quite as big in diameter. The zero key on the numeric keypad was crooked enough to make the stabilizer inserts bind, so I had to unsolder it and straighten it out. One Alt key is a little crooked, too, but maybe not enough to get me to disassemble the keyboard to correct it.
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I just finished soldering these into a Das Keyboard 4 last night. I have to agree with a lot of what's been said before. They're very tactile right at the top, considerably more so than Cherry browns, but then they just collapse. After typing on them for a while this morning, my silenced Topre Type Heaven feels almost linear. The box browns really have that much of a bump at the top. These are definitely quiet enough to have in the office. They're not quiet as Cherry browns with QMX Clips, but the travel isn't reduced as much, and the box browns obviously silence the upstroke and downstroke, regardless of the keycaps used. I can't say that about the QMX Clips. They don't silence the downstroke on far too many keycaps I've tried. For now, they're keepers, and I'm not instantly dying to replace them, which is how I felt about Cherry silent blacks on this same keyboard. The weight seems about perfect. The tactility will just take some getting used to. One thing I noticed is that these are easier to solder in crooked. It seems like the large alignment nub on the bottom of the switch is shallower than the one on Cherry switches, or possibly not quite as big in diameter. The zero key on the numeric keypad was crooked enough to make the stabilizer inserts bind, so I had to unsolder it and straighten it out. One Alt key is a little crooked, too, but maybe not enough to get me to disassemble the keyboard to correct it.
If you consider box browns (assuming these are very close to the undampened version) to be really tactile, you should try box royals, or some thick clicks.