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geekhack Community => New Members => Topic started by: AppleLe4f on Fri, 01 May 2020, 14:13:02
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Hello,
I am new to custom keyboards, I actually own prebuilt keyboards, and now I want to make one myself , even though I don't know anything about keyboard design. I never really met keyboard enthusiast in my country so I am here to learn from people with the same hobby as mine.
Thank you for being there GH
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Welcome :)
If you look hard enough you should be able to find some really good info here :thumb:
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Thank you, I will, this is keyboard thing is eating me :D
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Thank you, I will, this is keyboard thing is eating me :D
Welcome to Geekhack AppleLe4f.
That's natural, it is kind of like drugs except you don't stop working a job, start breaking into people's cars to raid the change pockets, and stop eating to the point of becoming a walking skeleton ... hopefully. I imagine even the withdrawals are better, wouldn't know, don't plan on going into withdrawal myself.
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Thank you, I will, this is keyboard thing is eating me :D
Welcome to Geekhack AppleLe4f.
That's natural, it is kind of like drugs except you don't stop working a job, start breaking into people's cars to raid the change pockets, and stop eating to the point of becoming a walking skeleton ... hopefully. I imagine even the withdrawals are better, wouldn't know, don't plan on going into withdrawal myself.
I can totally relate to that, I guess I have to prepare myself to eat ice cubes with salt for the next month
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Thank you, I will, this is keyboard thing is eating me :D
Welcome to Geekhack AppleLe4f.
That's natural, it is kind of like drugs except you don't stop working a job, start breaking into people's cars to raid the change pockets, and stop eating to the point of becoming a walking skeleton ... hopefully. I imagine even the withdrawals are better, wouldn't know, don't plan on going into withdrawal myself.
I can totally relate to that, I guess I have to prepare myself to eat ice cubes with salt for the next month
I could have worded that better. I meant that keyboard addiction probably won't lead to those things, but I guess if you start buying up rare caps left and right, discontinued limited run boards, and/or rare retro boards with long-dead switch types, then you must do what you must do. Who needs shelter when you can build your own out of keyboards? I imagine wild walnuts are edible, might just have to fight a few squirrels for their stashes.
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Thank you, I will, this is keyboard thing is eating me :D
Welcome to Geekhack AppleLe4f.
That's natural, it is kind of like drugs except you don't stop working a job, start breaking into people's cars to raid the change pockets, and stop eating to the point of becoming a walking skeleton ... hopefully. I imagine even the withdrawals are better, wouldn't know, don't plan on going into withdrawal myself.
I can totally relate to that, I guess I have to prepare myself to eat ice cubes with salt for the next month
I could have worded that better. I meant that keyboard addiction probably won't lead to those things, but I guess if you start buying up rare caps left and right, discontinued limited run boards, and/or rare retro boards with long-dead switch types, then you must do what you must do. Who needs shelter when you can build your own out of keyboards? I imagine wild walnuts are edible, might just have to fight a few squirrels for their stashes.
For my defense I am not a native English speaker, but you got me there.
I mean I got my Pok3r with blue switches 4 years ago, good keyboard, might change the switchs though. But I feel like this is not enough and I want to make something for myself, I don't think I would buy something from a group buy per say (well not now, I am still a student). So I am here to find tips on how to design and do a keyboard from scratch and how to do it. This is going to be a fun journey for my first custom keyboard hehe
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I could have worded that better. I meant that keyboard addiction probably won't lead to those things, but I guess if you start buying up rare caps left and right, discontinued limited run boards, and/or rare retro boards with long-dead switch types, then you must do what you must do. Who needs shelter when you can build your own out of keyboards? I imagine wild walnuts are edible, might just have to fight a few squirrels for their stashes.
For my defense I am not a native English speaker, but you got me there.
I mean I got my Pok3r with blue switches 4 years ago, good keyboard, might change the switchs though. But I feel like this is not enough and I want to make something for myself, I don't think I would buy something from a group buy per say (well not now, I am still a student). So I am here to find tips on how to design and do a keyboard from scratch and how to do it. This is going to be a fun journey for my first custom keyboard hehe
Nah, I imagine that's my fault, not yours.
What sort of switches are you thinking of going with? Which have you tried? I think of keyboard modification a bit differently. If you take an off-the-shelf board, desolder all of the switches, and solder in a switch that was never offered for that particular board, then you really basically have a one-of-a-kind board. Ironically, that will likely make it more unique than the LEGO boards you can assemble, as it takes more effort and is unlikely to necessarily be a common thing to do to a given board.
I have many such boards now. I put Kailh box jades in a vintage Unitek K151L (some of the original switches, which I don't like because they're MX black, were not working due to rusted diode legs), Kailh box navies in a Corsair K65, jades in a few TG3 boards, navies in a Das Pro 4. I modded some GX12 aviator sockets directly into the cases of some, a 5-pin din socket on another, so they're pretty unique now.
By scratch, do you mean design a PCB and/or entirely custom layout/plate and case, or buying a PCB the layout and features you desire, and assembling everything you purchase for it? Something like this is also an option:
A modern handwiring guide - stronger, cleaner, easier (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87689.0)
No PCB required.
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I could have worded that better. I meant that keyboard addiction probably won't lead to those things, but I guess if you start buying up rare caps left and right, discontinued limited run boards, and/or rare retro boards with long-dead switch types, then you must do what you must do. Who needs shelter when you can build your own out of keyboards? I imagine wild walnuts are edible, might just have to fight a few squirrels for their stashes.
For my defense I am not a native English speaker, but you got me there.
I mean I got my Pok3r with blue switches 4 years ago, good keyboard, might change the switchs though. But I feel like this is not enough and I want to make something for myself, I don't think I would buy something from a group buy per say (well not now, I am still a student). So I am here to find tips on how to design and do a keyboard from scratch and how to do it. This is going to be a fun journey for my first custom keyboard hehe
Nah, I imagine that's my fault, not yours.
What sort of switches are you thinking of going with? Which have you tried? I think of keyboard modification a bit differently. If you take an off-the-shelf board, desolder all of the switches, and solder in a switch that was never offered for that particular board, then you really basically have a one-of-a-kind board. Ironically, that will likely make it more unique than the LEGO boards you can assemble, as it takes more effort and is unlikely to necessarily be a common thing to do to a given board.
I have many such boards now. I put Kailh box jades in a vintage Unitek K151L (some of the original switches, which I don't like because they're MX black, were not working due to rusted diode legs), Kailh box navies in a Corsair K65, jades in a few TG3 boards, navies in a Das Pro 4. I modded some GX12 aviator sockets directly into the cases of some, a 5-pin din socket on another, so they're pretty unique now.
By scratch, do you mean design a PCB and/or entirely custom layout/plate and case, or buying a PCB the layout and features you desire, and assembling everything you purchase for it? Something like this is also an option:
A modern handwiring guide - stronger, cleaner, easier (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87689.0)
No PCB required.
So for the switched, I've tried MX Blues, MX Brown, MX Red and Outemu Brown. I like the feel of the cherry MX switched except the reds because there too light. Outemu browns are really weird they are quite scratchy and haa a weird ping sound (that might be a plate thing and I think that this is a known issue and the magicforce, you got what you paid for).
At first I really enjoyed typing with the blues, but the sound is too high pitched for me now, so I want change that completely and try to replace them for some Novelkey's Creams or Everglide's Oreo. I also want to put some neoprene rubber between the plate and the pcb.
And yeah I do agree on tour point with off-the-shelf keyboard, that's why I feel like changing the switches might be good.
And by scratch, I mean literally everything except the key caps. I would really like to design a custom pcb and layout as well as the case and the plate. I feel like if I am going to spend a stupid amount of money it might as well be on something that comes from my head and my hands. I mean I am saying that but I need to learn a lot of stuff before doing anything hahaha.
I am aware that hand wiring is also a possibility, so I still have to think about that because I don't know how it will affect the typing experience since all the switches will sit on a plate. When I saw the Polaris project or the the 7V by gok, I was like :"I want to do something like that"
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Nah, I imagine that's my fault, not yours.
What sort of switches are you thinking of going with? Which have you tried? I think of keyboard modification a bit differently. If you take an off-the-shelf board, desolder all of the switches, and solder in a switch that was never offered for that particular board, then you really basically have a one-of-a-kind board. Ironically, that will likely make it more unique than the LEGO boards you can assemble, as it takes more effort and is unlikely to necessarily be a common thing to do to a given board.
I have many such boards now. I put Kailh box jades in a vintage Unitek K151L (some of the original switches, which I don't like because they're MX black, were not working due to rusted diode legs), Kailh box navies in a Corsair K65, jades in a few TG3 boards, navies in a Das Pro 4. I modded some GX12 aviator sockets directly into the cases of some, a 5-pin din socket on another, so they're pretty unique now.
By scratch, do you mean design a PCB and/or entirely custom layout/plate and case, or buying a PCB the layout and features you desire, and assembling everything you purchase for it? Something like this is also an option:
A modern handwiring guide - stronger, cleaner, easier (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87689.0)
No PCB required.
So for the switched, I've tried MX Blues, MX Brown, MX Red and Outemu Brown. I like the feel of the cherry MX switched except the reds because there too light. Outemu browns are really weird they are quite scratchy and haa a weird ping sound (that might be a plate thing and I think that this is a known issue and the magicforce, you got what you paid for).
At first I really enjoyed typing with the blues, but the sound is too high pitched for me now, so I want change that completely and try to replace them for some Novelkey's Creams or Everglide's Oreo. I also want to put some neoprene rubber between the plate and the pcb.
And yeah I do agree on tour point with off-the-shelf keyboard, that's why I feel like changing the switches might be good.
And by scratch, I mean literally everything except the key caps. I would really like to design a custom pcb and layout as well as the case and the plate. I feel like if I am going to spend a stupid amount of money it might as well be on something that comes from my head and my hands. I mean I am saying that but I need to learn a lot of stuff before doing anything hahaha.
I am aware that hand wiring is also a possibility, so I still have to think about that because I don't know how it will affect the typing experience since all the switches will sit on a plate. When I saw the Polaris project or the the 7V by gok, I was like :"I want to do something like that"
Lol, are the Outemu browns even more scratchy than the MX browns? How did they even pull that off? I haven't felt those. I found Outemu blues to be quite a bit better than MX blues in every way myself. More tactile, the tactile event is more refined/defined, and they sound less like plastic grocery bags. If you like clickies, but don't like the sound of MX blues, then you should get a cheap Kailh box switch tester and make sure it has as many clickies as possible in it. The pinks and jades are very bassy. I haven't felt pinks yet, but the jades also feel WAY better than MX blues to boot, in most people's opinions. Not as nice as Alps SKCM blue, but not far off.
I do hear great things about Novelkeys creams. Never felt them, or most other modern linears, unfortunately.
There seem to be a lot of people around with experience designing keyboard PCBs on here. I imagine the rest of that is relatively easy. I love the idea of it as well, but that sounds like a lot of work. These might help:
The Living PCB Design Thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48851.0)
swill's plate building tool (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.0)
Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users! (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69582.0)
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Lol, are the Outemu browns even more scratchy than the MX browns? How did they even pull that off? I haven't felt those. I found Outemu blues to be quite a bit better than MX blues in every way myself. More tactile, the tactile event is more refined/defined, and they sound less like plastic grocery bags. If you like clickies, but don't like the sound of MX blues, then you should get a cheap Kailh box switch tester and make sure it has as many clickies as possible in it. The pinks and jades are very bassy. I haven't felt pinks yet, but the jades also feel WAY better than MX blues to boot, in most people's opinions. Not as nice as Alps SKCM blue, but not far off.
I do hear great things about Novelkeys creams. Never felt them, or most other modern linears, unfortunately.
There seem to be a lot of people around with experience designing keyboard PCBs on here. I imagine the rest of that is relatively easy. I love the idea of it as well, but that sounds like a lot of work. These might help:
The Living PCB Design Thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48851.0)
swill's plate building tool (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.0)
Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users! (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69582.0)
Well mine are quite scratchy, and they have a ping sound, so yeah.... not really ideal.
I think I am done with clicky switches for a while in general, the sounds bothers my environment and I want to try something different for a while. Though Box swithces are quite interesting and deserve a check, so I might get a switch tester, thanks for the advice. I heard about alps, but getting some seems to be quite the task lol.
I don't know how you find all these thread, it might be documented somehwere on how to use the search function though, but thank you very much you are really helpful !
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Lol, are the Outemu browns even more scratchy than the MX browns? How did they even pull that off? I haven't felt those. I found Outemu blues to be quite a bit better than MX blues in every way myself. More tactile, the tactile event is more refined/defined, and they sound less like plastic grocery bags. If you like clickies, but don't like the sound of MX blues, then you should get a cheap Kailh box switch tester and make sure it has as many clickies as possible in it. The pinks and jades are very bassy. I haven't felt pinks yet, but the jades also feel WAY better than MX blues to boot, in most people's opinions. Not as nice as Alps SKCM blue, but not far off.
I do hear great things about Novelkeys creams. Never felt them, or most other modern linears, unfortunately.
There seem to be a lot of people around with experience designing keyboard PCBs on here. I imagine the rest of that is relatively easy. I love the idea of it as well, but that sounds like a lot of work. These might help:
The Living PCB Design Thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48851.0)
swill's plate building tool (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65189.0)
Super Awesome Tools and Resources Made By Users! (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69582.0)
Well mine are quite scratchy, and they have a ping sound, so yeah.... not really ideal.
I think I am done with clicky switches for a while in general, the sounds bothers my environment and I want to try something different for a while. Though Box swithces are quite interesting and deserve a check, so I might get a switch tester, thanks for the advice. I heard about alps, but getting some seems to be quite the task lol.
I don't know how you find all these thread, it might be documented somehwere on how to use the search function though, but thank you very much you are really helpful !
I believe you. MX browns just are already jokingly nicknamed MX sand, so something more scratchy than that is baffling.
Alps SKCM white boards are commonly available for $40-50 on Ebay, and depending on their age (older is better) they're considered to feel nearly as good as SKCM blues. Yeah, goodluck on blues though. They're very coveted, so a board with switches that aren't probably already dirty usually goes for at least $200 on a bad day, though I have gotten all of mine for less.
I had seen the first two around, and the third is stickied in the Making Stuff Together section I believe. I find Google searches that include Geekhack as the criteria to work well as well. You're very welcome.