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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Shutter_Shock on Mon, 18 May 2020, 17:53:55
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Hey everyone. I couldn't find a reference for significant discussion about this; forgive me if it's out there.
It's not hard to find a switch modding guide, but spring-specific lubes aren't always discussed. I feel like it's often just 'lube the spring with what you're lubing the switch with.' With that, I ask: does anyone have any insight / recommendations for a best lube for springs? Does it matter? Does it depend on spring weight, spring material, slider/housing material, etc?
Specifically, I'm trying to decide what to do with the springs in some V2 Tealios that I just bought. I'm planning to lube them with Krytox 205g0, maybe film them with some TX films I picked up, and spring swap them with either 65g or 60g TX springs I've got since I prefer a somewhat lighter switch. My question is if there is a best lube for the springs specifically. Would it be better to lube with the 205g0 that I'm using on the switches? Or would it be better to lube the springs with an oil like Krytox 105? Or would it be best to lube them with some other third thing? Or does it even matter that much what I use as long as I lube them with something? In terms of technique, my understanding is that bag lubing really only applies to oils since greases are too thick, but any thoughts on bag lubing? Any downsides other than that it uses more lube?
I'd appreciate any thoughts. For background, my first mech was an Asus keyboard with Cherry reds and terrible stabs and keycaps. I had that for quite a while before I then quickly fell down the rabbit hole, ordered a Rama U80-A, and have bought and built a few different boards and bought half a dozen sets of keycaps in the last year while I've waited for Rama to fulfill that GB. I haven't modded any switches yet though. I have a switch opener, brushes, other tools, and am 3d printing a modding station. Just trying to figure out the best lube for the springs. I do realize the best advice is probably "try a bunch of things and see what you like best." My understanding is that you can't really un-lube a switch though, and I'd prefer to not burn through switches trying out different combinations since I didn't order that many extras.
Also, while I'm asking questions, am I right that lubing a switch effectively makes it a lighter switch (requiring less actuation force)? Or not so much?
Thanks in advance and hope everyone's safe and healthy!
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I cannot really tell you which. I can tell you lube absolutely matters! That is why they have $2 lube and $40 lube(same size grams)! Very nice board BTW.
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I'm part of the camp of just lubing the ends of the springs with whatever i'm lubing the switches with, so either 205g0 or 3204 with linears.
Lubing a switch does not decrease the acutation force, get a lighter spring if you want that.
I also am waiting for my u80, the finish line is close.
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Hey everyone. I couldn't find a reference for significant discussion about this; forgive me if it's out there.
It's not hard to find a switch modding guide, but spring-specific lubes aren't always discussed. I feel like it's often just 'lube the spring with what you're lubing the switch with.' With that, I ask: does anyone have any insight / recommendations for a best lube for springs? Does it matter? Does it depend on spring weight, spring material, slider/housing material, etc?
Specifically, I'm trying to decide what to do with the springs in some V2 Tealios that I just bought. I'm planning to lube them with Krytox 205g0, maybe film them with some TX films I picked up, and spring swap them with either 65g or 60g TX springs I've got since I prefer a somewhat lighter switch. My question is if there is a best lube for the springs specifically. Would it be better to lube with the 205g0 that I'm using on the switches? Or would it be better to lube the springs with an oil like Krytox 105? Or would it be best to lube them with some other third thing? Or does it even matter that much what I use as long as I lube them with something? In terms of technique, my understanding is that bag lubing really only applies to oils since greases are too thick, but any thoughts on bag lubing? Any downsides other than that it uses more lube?
I'd appreciate any thoughts. For background, my first mech was an Asus keyboard with Cherry reds and terrible stabs and keycaps. I had that for quite a while before I then quickly fell down the rabbit hole, ordered a Rama U80-A, and have bought and built a few different boards and bought half a dozen sets of keycaps in the last year while I've waited for Rama to fulfill that GB. I haven't modded any switches yet though. I have a switch opener, brushes, other tools, and am 3d printing a modding station. Just trying to figure out the best lube for the springs. I do realize the best advice is probably "try a bunch of things and see what you like best." My understanding is that you can't really un-lube a switch though, and I'd prefer to not burn through switches trying out different combinations since I didn't order that many extras.
Also, while I'm asking questions, am I right that lubing a switch effectively makes it a lighter switch (requiring less actuation force)? Or not so much?
Thanks in advance and hope everyone's safe and healthy!
So, did you lube those Tealios?
What did you use for springs?
I notice that Tealios make a like springy noise when pressed, maybe its worth bag-lubing their springs with something like Krytox 105.
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Doesn't matter really
My friend Paul /Gazzew told me that oil drips off the spring over time, so I always use thin grease like his blend #4 that he gave me
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On the spring it shouldn't really matter, you aren't lubing it for friction.
It's to dampen ping and be there in case it moves, which should only be to settle into place.
I usually just lube the ends, I know some bag lube.
I have several issues with bag lubing, it wastes lube and you can't do it with grease but the biggest problem is if there's enough there to coat the spring just by rolling around in a bag, there's enough there to slide down the spring later and pool in the bottom of the switch.
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On the spring it shouldn't really matter, you aren't lubing it for friction.
It's to dampen ping and be there in case it moves, which should only be to settle into place.
I usually just lube the ends, I know some bag lube.
I have several issues with bag lubing, it wastes lube and you can't do it with grease but the biggest problem is if there's enough there to coat the spring just by rolling around in a bag, there's enough there to slide down the spring later and pool in the bottom of the switch.
Interesting. This is actually my fear.
All I care about is to get rid of ping noise.
So lubing with Krytox 205 just the ends of the springs would be enough to achieve it?
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On the spring it shouldn't really matter, you aren't lubing it for friction.
It's to dampen ping and be there in case it moves, which should only be to settle into place.
I usually just lube the ends, I know some bag lube.
I have several issues with bag lubing, it wastes lube and you can't do it with grease but the biggest problem is if there's enough there to coat the spring just by rolling around in a bag, there's enough there to slide down the spring later and pool in the bottom of the switch.
For bag lubing I'd imagine this could be an issue, but what I've found to work really well for oiling springs is using a small clear lidded plastic container (tub lubing you could call it) like the smallest ones in this set, https://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Plastic-Containers-Reusable-Stackable/dp/B07PSKSG1M?ref_=ast_sto_dp (https://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-Plastic-Containers-Reusable-Stackable/dp/B07PSKSG1M?ref_=ast_sto_dp). Using those instead of a bag allows for much better control of the amount of oil you're putting on the springs & is actually the least wasteful way to apply it IME. You just have to be careful not to add too much oil with the initial batch & after that you can reuse the container multiple times over just adding a few drops of oil as needed to keep the springs getting a nice thin even coat on them.
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You cannot get a nice even coat by putting something in liquid, surface tension and capillary action is going to cause it to pick up more than you want, it doesn't matter how little you put in the bag or bowl. A brush breaks the surface tension and has more capillary action so the brush wants to retain the oil more than the spring wants to suck it up.
205 should be fine, I use dielectric grease.
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Dielectric grease spring gang
Nice to know Leslie is using it too.
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You cannot get a nice even coat by putting something in liquid, surface tension and capillary action is going to cause it to pick up more than you want, it doesn't matter how little you put in the bag or bowl. A brush breaks the surface tension and has more capillary action so the brush wants to retain the oil more than the spring wants to suck it up.
205 should be fine, I use dielectric grease.
can i ask your technique with either the 205 or dielectric grease for the springs?
Is it just brushing a small amount of the lube onto the very ends of the spring? or coat the whole spring?
Same boat as the OP, got some Tealios V2 that I need to lube this weekend. Planning to use 205g0 for the housing and stem, but i don't have any 105 oil on me so i can't bag lube them. The other option is just to use 205g0, but not sure how to apply it to springs..
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I just put a little on the very ends, it's just in case they shift.
While in theory putting more over the spring should help with ping, I've said this a few times, stop it at the source, anything else is a bandage. Certain springs ping more than others, if yours are pingy, try different springs.
I really hate saying to spend more money, but at least springs are one of the cheapest things in this hobby (lube is more expensive!), the real bummer is if you find they ping after you solder.
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Dielectric grease spring gang
Nice to know Leslie is using it too.
You cannot get a nice even coat by putting something in liquid, surface tension and capillary action is going to cause it to pick up more than you want, it doesn't matter how little you put in the bag or bowl. A brush breaks the surface tension and has more capillary action so the brush wants to retain the oil more than the spring wants to suck it up.
205 should be fine, I use dielectric grease.
A little applied with a brush? or a little dip of each side on the grease?? there are a video of this?? I'm interested in this, it make's a lot of sense!
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Usually I brush the ends of the spring with dielectric grease ( the inside of the ends)
Yeah you can use 205g0
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A little applied with a brush? or a little dip of each side on the grease?? there are a video of this?? I'm interested in this, it make's a lot of sense!
Either really or depends on who you ask.
If there's a bit in the cap, I'll often just touch it to the grease, otherwise I just brush or dab the end, it depends on how much is there and how lazy I feel. I don't even go up inside the ends (a little often ends up there regardless). I'm not saying those who do are wrong, you can easily make a case for it but I just don't really bother. If the spring is rubbing the grease on the bottom should allow it to slide over to where it's not and if it still is then there's probably a problem with your springs. They should self center and not touch and the lower down the spring the less movement there is, at any rate it's not a high friction point when working properly and yes I'm just making excuses for not bothering.
Tahae Types on youtube has a few videos, he used dielectric grease in his early days and later almost exclusively krytox and these days he gets it free, but really it's not rocket science. Okay, lubes themselves could technically be, but really it's not a big deal, most of what we do is just augmenting factory lube. Basically be sure to use plastic compatible lubes, put the thick stuff anywhere metal touches plastic and thinner stuff where plastic slides against plastic.
One thing I think you also may want to look at is bandaid modding for stabs.
That and lube does amazing things to cheap keyboards, my cheapo GMMK sounds and feels every bit as good as anything people spending hundreds of dollars on.
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But if you lube them with 205g0 at the end of the srpings, will that not pool at the bottom of the switch eventually? Or will it just dry out?
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I just bag lube with Krytox 105 personally. I hate brushing springs and it saves me time.
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I use Christo-Lube MCG-112 for most of my switches, much more affordable than krytox for similar performance.