geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 14:59:58

Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 14:59:58: i was wondering if any company makes a supreme quality keyboard with cherry blue switches? like topre quality. with dyed or double shot keys.

i do not consider the filco or das to be nearly the quality i'd like to have. it seems cherry branded boards are even lower quality now. i will spend a few hundred dollars but i just prefer the blues to the topre. quite frankly i am very unhappy owning the above mentioned keyboards and want much better if it exists.

does something like this exist?

thank you.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Mon, 05 July 2010, 15:06:05: What's so bad about Filco? I don't have any of them, but just curious.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 15:18:08: filco is ok. i would not call it ultra quality though. my legends wore off in days as have other peoples i have read. it is not super heavy and it has some flex. i'd say it is comparable to a das s. maybe a little better. they are both made by costar in taiwan. i think a japanese american or german board would tend to be better. i don't know because cherry makes some crummy boards nowdays in germany. i just doubt if what i am looking for exists it would be made in taiwan or china. if the quality is there i don't care where it is made. the filco is not topre quality. what i am looking for is a topre quality board with cherry blue switches because i prefer them.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: ecru on Mon, 05 July 2010, 16:53:46: I agree that Filcos are not high quality. I can't compare to new Cherry boards or Topres though as I haven't owned either. My only suggestion is to consider old Cherry boards (and do a switch change if needed) as the ones I have seen are much better than Filcos.

My current plan is to try switch changes in a Raptor-Gaming K1. If you find something let us know as I could be interested too.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:07:45: miniguru.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Rusty Rat on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:10:44: Typo,
Quality is ‘conformance to requirements’ and what you are saying is that Cherry blues are quality and you equate weight and lack of flexing to your definition of quality.

What does ‘supreme’ quality mean in your book?

If you can wear the legends off keycaps in “days” then you definitely have an acid problem.

Part build your own keyboard, get a Filco, superglue a sheet of stainless steel to the back of it and replace the keys with Cherry double shots.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: sixty on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:25:54: If a Filco is not of high enough quality to satisfy your needs you probably would only find happiness with a 356 series keyboard. These are custom build and very limited. They go for around 350 USD for just the DIY kit. They are long sold out though, more info here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6688).
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:30:37: You might want to consider the Maltron boards.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:31:56: If your only concern with the Filco is the quality of the keycaps, then you can try and get some double-shot Cherry keys for them.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Nonmouse on Mon, 05 July 2010, 17:53:08: Quote from: Rusty Rat;199753

If you can wear the legends off keycaps in “days” then you definitely have an acid problem.

It's not an acid problem; it's a "I slathered a solvent and polymer mixture- which I didn't know how would react with the plastic or legend- all over my keys and then the legends wore off" problem (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10285). *****ing about the quality of something because it can't stand up to industrial levels of abuse is really misguided.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 05 July 2010, 18:35:27: There was a Chinese gentleman offering an all-aluminium Cherry board not long ago. It was going to cost something like $300 though.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Mon, 05 July 2010, 18:56:27: Quote from: ch_123;199794
There was a Chinese gentleman offering an all-aluminium Cherry board not long ago. It was going to cost something like $300 though.

HHKB pro 2s are just about $300 if you want them shipped to Europe (excluding taxes!) so I don't think typo should mind spending that.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 19:15:09: thanks for the options guys. i will explore them.
i was not complaining solely about the legends wearing off mind you. which may indeed be my own fault, i'll have to agree there.
i meant the heft of the whole keyboard. compare the filco to a model m for instance.

i think of the options given my answer is going to be an old cherry board. i was willing to spend some money but for an old cherry i don't think i will end up spending much. that fit's the bill.

what would be good about taking the keys off an old cherry and putting them on the filco? wouldn't the entire old cherry board be of higher quality overall?

edit: i have to think this over. the metal keycaps, and the korean diy board look super to me. whcih gives me another idea. if i am willing to live without the lack of "heft" of the filco i have a complete set of "changeable" cherry keys somewhere. if i remember correctly. the ones where you put a sticker under the window. seriously though, i was not just complaining about the legends wearing off(i understand that may be my own fault). i imagine the metal keycaps would add that heft to the filco lol.

thanks
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: kriminal on Mon, 05 July 2010, 19:56:43: ohh you just have to use cherry doubleshot keycaps on your filco and probably add some weights, the keycaps change the feel alot!! i have cherry doubleshots on my filco brown cherry board.
i believe chinese brands like ducky have dye sub keys {mimicing the topre black on black keycaps} for cherry type boards...
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 20:16:48: ok i can try that. i don't want to go hunting for a used cherry board with ds keys. so i can get a new one for $65. i feel it is worth that just for the keycaps. plus not to have to waste time looking for a used one. even though i am sure you guys think i am nuts to spend that to harvest keys.

think i am going to try kriminals advice which was also ripster's and some others advice i think. since i ruined the keys i figure that is worth trying and i will see how i like it. really i did not mean to disrespect the filco. it is better than most of what is made nowdays to begin with. if they included dye sub or double shots on it and added some more weight i'd pay them $200 no problem. hint,hint.

i will be busy working on this tomorrow so i will let you know how it goes. one question, do i need to use the stabilizers from the filco keys on the cherry keys?

thank you guys.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 05 July 2010, 20:26:45: You could get a lot of mileage out of one of these (http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-QTRONIX-KEYBOARD-BLUE-CHERRY-SLIDERS-QX-301-/150459122745?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2308100439), but they're hideously overpriced.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 05 July 2010, 21:51:58: thats what i am talking about! i wish for a keyboard like that in a modern full layout with windows keys! i am pretty sure that keyboard is a lot more robust than a filco or any of the mx boards nowdays. why doesn't some company make a modern standard board that robust? geez, i'd pay more than a topre for one.

anyhow all i can get my hands on is a g81 high quality so i'll just harvest the keys for now. plus the slap an aluminum plate on the back of the filco sounded like a nice idea.

if there was a turnkey product on the market built like a tank(and not just the keys) i'd buy it!

i was just wondering, would the keys from the g81 fit the filco or adesso better? or are they the same?

i actually think the adesso is more robust than the filco. i don't mean to be a jerk, thats just my opinion. frankly, i have no idea really. it just seems heavier.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: kriminal on Mon, 05 July 2010, 23:20:25: you are free to express your views of the filco, i like my filco but even i know it isnt perfect.. it has a few shortfalls. i spent more than 65$ on doubleshot keycaps from china. ;)
if i could get a cherry brown or blue board with the HHKB layout and thick (cherry style) keycaps that would be win!!!
RIP miniguru ;(
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 05 July 2010, 23:45:11: I'm jonesing for a set of those old round-top gray double-shots from the Dolch sniffers... Those key caps are everything I'd ever want in a key cap. I'd build a board around those key caps if I could get my hands on a set without having to buy one of the overpriced Dolch kits or the overpriced parted keyboards. Maybe, in time, I will find some when I'm least expecting it.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: audioave10 on Mon, 05 July 2010, 23:49:39: If the Deck Legend had the blue cherries and didn't have the expensive backlighting, it would be perfect. Mine is very strong and solid feeling and the keys will never wear off.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Tue, 06 July 2010, 03:21:41: Quote from: ripster;199793
Take your Filco keyboard and fill them with aluminum keycaps from ScarFace. At least $500.

They're blanks so you'll have to do some modding or wait and see what crazyman ScarFace tries next. I got a set of Helvetica stickers so the next round should look better in my next round of sandblaster testing.
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10257&stc=1&d=1274628639)

i was wondering what the legend is made out of on that?
do the stickers look ok? i could get blanks.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 06 July 2010, 09:17:05: Quote from: Oqsy;199858
I'm jonesing for a set of those old round-top gray double-shots from the Dolch sniffers... Those key caps are everything I'd ever want in a key cap. I'd build a board around those key caps if I could get my hands on a set without having to buy one of the overpriced Dolch kits or the overpriced parted keyboards. Maybe, in time, I will find some when I'm least expecting it.

The key tops on the Dolch keyboards are not rounded. They're like any other Cherry double shot, except in light/dark grey.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: muchadoaboutnothing on Tue, 06 July 2010, 09:50:53: Quote from: ripster;199943
If the keys on a Filco bug you then keep nagging Majestouch for new ones in this thread. (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9779)

He must be bored. Everything is in stock (other than losing the 87U distributorship). No major new products. Sun shining outside. Nothing better to do.

Majestouch already told us that he was working with Signature Plastics on it (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=182118#post182118).

[quote="Majestouch";182118]Might as well tell you guys, they [Signature Plastics] already have a FILCO set on hand, and I have a set of their DCS, but there are some complications. I don't mean to discourage y'all from goin in on a group buy, but as-is, the off-the-shelf DCS [family of keycaps] doesn't fit the FILCO to my standard. I have a couple changes that I still need to discuss with them, but if it doesn't turn out to be cost effective, then I'll let you know the details.[/quote]

And that he was trying to do it but the key shape changes are costly: (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=182216&postcount=184)
[quote="Majestouch";182216]I work to figure out trends many months ahead of time, but I don't broadcast my every turn;). I actually wanted to do this last year, but there were other pressing business matters that got in the way. Signature seems to be amazingly flexible in the way of printing/lettering options; order quantity helps of course, but changes to the base key shape is costly.[/quote]

So you can poke and prod for an update but Majestouch has said that he "[doesn't] broadcast [his] every turn" so he may keep quiet.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: ricercar on Tue, 06 July 2010, 13:50:40: re; Maltron.

None of my Maltrons used Cherry blue. They use blacks.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Tue, 06 July 2010, 21:28:56: thanks again guys. geez ripster you built that sandblaster cabinet just for keycaps? thats hardcore! you guys are dedicated to this art.

edit: i actually prefer the adesso. so i stamped all the keys with white tinted india ink. i scanned the keys to get the fonts to put on the stamps. after i removed the acryl and stock legends of course. it took me 14 hours! i sure hope it lasts. btw, it looks pretty stock. i am happy with the job i idid.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 26 July 2010, 00:28:28: could someone kindly tell me the complete model number of a vintage cherry made board with blue mx switches and double shot keys in the 3000 style layout? no card reader or input device.

it would be a lot easier to obtain one if i knew what i was asking for.
i am positive that would be my ultimate keyboard.

thank you
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 26 July 2010, 02:46:46: By the way, if you're wanting a solid built board that can take abuse, you really need to take a long hard look at Model Ms. The Unicomp models are relatively cheap for a damn good buckling spring board, and BRAND NEW! Debates exist as to the pinnacle of Model M quality, but I've never seen any evidence that a Unicomp Model M is anything undeserving of the Model M legacy. If you're still not satisfied, do the sandy/ripster bolt mod and replace rivets with nuts/bolts to further strengthen the board against flexing, and to minimize the less than appealing "pinging" and crisp up the "clicking".

I love cherry mx switches, so much that I've mix and matched two boards with custom spring / stem combinations to approximate switch types (clear / red) that I wouldn't be able to access easily. My favorite is the pseudo clear, or black spring brown stem combo, and I switch back and forth between that board and my Model M (42H1292) quite regularly. The M is just so much more solid feeling and tactile that it's hard to give it up, even for my buttery smooth Cherry.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 26 July 2010, 03:38:42: i had the original ibm pc. then the xt and so on. model m's are certainly the most solid keyboard imo. i just really dig cherry mx blue switches. just a personal preference. i'd easily choose them over topre too.

i guess the only answer for me is to build a "frankenstein" board. using all the strengths of various boards to build one solid board.

actually i think i'd be really happy with the adesso if i can find ds keys for it. it is really odd that other people had such bad experiences with that board. other than the junk keys and legends it is my favorite modern board. i also love the integrated multimeda keys on it. i really only need to replace all the letter keys. i think that is going to be my easiest answer. there is only one real problem. if you type one word real fast, like hit 200wpm on the one word it will not register fast enough and cause a typo. since i don't game it is not really an issue to me. fyi, you can press the whole darn board at once for rollover.

i have read all the deals people got here to source a board with ds keys. i am not finding them right now. i really don't want to pay $200 for a board to harvest the keys. plus they have to be the right height profile etc of course. i have found any mx will fit the stem but that doesn't mean it is actually right.

other than that i find the adesso's frame to be more solid and heavier than a new g80-3000 or filco. i'd try a ducky but i can't find one in the us. i feel das still has issues to work out. plus that is a rather flimsy board imo.

i just don't understand why companies are making overall cheap quality boards with an industrial strength switch. i do prefer plate mounted too. it makes the board much more solid imo. i really slam on a keyboard. i know that is sloppy technique to bottom out but it gives me more satisfaction for some reason. i'd probably crack a pcb mount.

so i just have to get keys really and i'll be happy. i don't want to spend more than $50. plus i need to use a credit card.

i am not really unhappy with the plastic. i am wondering if there is some sort of really good looking stick on labels? that is one answer. everything i have seen looks really lousy.
my india ink job rubbed off because i added white pigment and it did not melt into the plastic like it should. home depot has some terrific mailbox lables but they are 1".

i do touch type(slam?). i just like the look of having legends on the keys.

none of todays cherry boards are nearly as solid as a model m or f though. i still have 3 of them. i have not used them in years. since i discovered cherry blues.

tomorrow i will go to the computer surplus store and see if i can find anything. he has hundreds of boards piled in boxes. he is going to get impatient if i start popping keys though.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Soarer on Mon, 26 July 2010, 06:55:31: Quote from: typo;206503
i have read all the deals people got here to source a board with ds keys. i am not finding them right now. i really don't want to pay $200 for a board to harvest the keys. plus they have to be the right height profile etc of course. i have found any mx will fit the stem but that doesn't mean it is actually right.

...

so i just have to get keys really and i'll be happy. i don't want to spend more than $50. plus i need to use a credit card.

...

tomorrow i will go to the computer surplus store and see if i can find anything. he has hundreds of boards piled in boxes. he is going to get impatient if i start popping keys though.

Keep looking and you will find some :)

Keys from a G81 (MY switch) fit, albeit not quite as solidly, but I find them quite acceptable and don't really notice it when I'm using the board, only when I look for it.

It's not 100% reliable, but a sign of double-shots is the Pause and PrtSc keys having Break and SysRq printed on the front of the key rather than the top. Might save you popping too many keys!

But you're right, there doesn't seem to be much on ebay at the moment with DS... one of these (G81-7910HPBUS-2) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cherry-Keyboard-Credit-Card-Reader-MY-7000-Black-NEW-/120538753526?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c10ab69f6) would give you most of the keys you want, it's a reasonable price for NIB. OTOH, all the boards with the numpad moved back to make room for a trackpad or ball have low profile numpad and function keys, so they'd only give you the alpha keys.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Soarer on Mon, 26 July 2010, 07:02:00: Quote from: Oqsy;206492
My favorite is the pseudo clear, or black spring brown stem combo

I might try that combo on a whole board at some point. At the moment I have it in the spacebar on a board with browns - a mix that works really well. But it's not really like a clear stem, the combo is much nicer IMHO.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Mental Hobbit on Mon, 26 July 2010, 11:01:24: Quote from: typo;206481
could someone kindly tell me the complete model number of a vintage cherry made board with blue mx switches and double shot keys in the 3000 style layout?

The model numbers would start with G80-3000 HS or G80-3000 HF. Letter H on first position stands for doubleshots, S or F on second position for blue switches.

Will be very hard to find though. If you find any G80-3000 with blues, you should get it, no matter what keys it has, they're generally hard to find used. Then watch out for a key donor with doubleshots and blacks or MY. G80 or G81, 3000 or 1000, with the letter H on first position. Those are much more common and therefore cheaper.
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 26 July 2010, 13:35:59: thanks for the advice guys. everything at the store i went to was rubber dome.
i'll keep looking.

the strange thing is my pad printed legends didn't really wear off. they turned very dark. it could have been the acryl. i thought it was dirt but it won't wipe off.

i will not be satisfied untill i have a solid board with ds keys. so the search continues.
it is really surprising there are all these mechanical boards out now but none of the boards other parts are as robust as the cherry switches they contain!
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 26 July 2010, 19:47:53: I was going to suggest exactly what you mentioned above... frankenstein! Remember that you can even mix the stems/springs from blues into whatever other board you might find that meets your other requirements, so keep that in mind too... if you find something with browns, blacks, clears, or even reds that is perfect except the switch type, then transplant those blue stems / springs into it! :D Finding the perfect board with blue switches might mean finding the perfect board, and ADDING blue switches :P
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: typo on Mon, 26 July 2010, 22:22:48: with a little soldering i could even have different switches on different keys! since i prefer cherry mx to topre. topre has a good thing going with the different pressures though. wow i have a project ahead of me! first i have to collect all the keyboards i will need as doners.

plus i feel real good about making something custom myself!
Title: high end cherry blue keyboard?
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 26 July 2010, 23:12:02: This is true... but try not to get TOO ambitious on your first attempt or you might get frustrated (of course I don't know your fabrication or skill set background, this might be a walk in the park for you)