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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:00:14

Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:00:14: I spilled about a half of can of coke in my Filco Majestouch tactile click Oktaku. I cleaned most of it out using 91% alcohol. All the keys still work but some of the keys on the left side now feel "Stiff" and dont click anymore. Specifically the e,d, f , c, x, s, v, and space keys. What can I do, I'm almost in tears i've only had this keyboard for 2 months and now its basically ruined, I want to cry.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Infinite north on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:10:01: If you get desperate I think that it would be possible to soak and work the keys in a small tub of alcohol upside down. the only issue with this is it could remove the small amount of grease on each switch. no grease is better than coke though. spending a few dollars on a gallon or two of rubbing alcohol sounds better than getting a replacement keyboard. there was a similar issue with beer in a filco in the The Keyboard Company vendor forum (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=9876) awhile ago. wait to see what other options you have.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:19:05: Is there some place I could send it for repairs maybe? I feel like I just threw $150 down the drain. :(
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:26:29: Well, the warranty is out. Water damage is pretty obvious.

It sounds like the coke is inside the switches themselves which means it's only a matter of time before corrosion starts. I'd probably pull all the keycaps off, disassemble the board as much as possible and.. I dunno. Maybe try tuner cleaner sprayed into each switch (or are they lubricated somehow?)
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Nonmouse on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:43:44: Dunk it in (literally) or at least hose it down several times with distilled water (deionized would be preferable, if you have access to it)- sugars and such aren't terribly soluble in alcohol. After that, rinse it with high-proof alcohol- IPA or ethanol- or acetone. You're likely to have wiped out any grease in the switches by this point, so you might want to at least consider disassembling and re-lubing them...
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 22:55:27: Wont that cause corrosion? And I thought you cant disassemble the Cherry blue switches.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: 1839cc on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:03:46: IPA != India pale ale.

The idea here is to prevent corrosion. And you can disassemble anything if you're determined enough. They will have to be desoldered from the PCB first though.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Nonmouse on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:24:55: Quote from: Artemis;200562
Wont that cause corrosion? And I thought you cant disassemble the Cherry blue switches.

No. Water itself is not what causes corrosion- it's the salts in water that do. Distilled, or as I said, preferably, deionized water, have very very few corrosive salts in them. The idea is to dissolve and flush out the sugars and salts from the Coke. You'd actually probably be alright with just the water rinse, but using isopropyl or ethyl alcohol or acetone to flush out the water will give you a bit more security, in case any corrosive solutes were left in the drops of water remaining in the switches.

And Cherry switches are easy to disassemble. It's a bit more of a pain with plate-mounted boards, because you have to de-solder and remove the switches first, but it's not particularly difficult, just tedious.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: 1839cc on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:41:31: Switch to deionized water.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:45:17: I have very little soldering experience, I would probably screw something up, is there someplace I could ship it for parts/labor? Also I really dont have a few hours to kill, sitting down and soldering/desoldering all those switches between work/classes.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: hyperlinked on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:46:53: Quote from: ripster;200571
Time is money.

I think this is the first time I've seen this said on GH!
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Nonmouse on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:53:41: Quote from: Artemis;200573
I have very little soldering experience, I would probably screw something up, is there someplace I could ship it for parts/labor? Also I really dont have a few hours to kill, sitting down and soldering/desoldering all those switches between work/classes.

Then you'd probably be better off just buying a new board and selling your old one to someone on here who'd be interested in fixing it.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Wed, 07 July 2010, 23:59:02: How much do you think I could get for it? All the keys still work, its just those few that are sticky.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: ThirdLap on Thu, 08 July 2010, 00:21:20: At least seven or eight dollars.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Artemis on Thu, 08 July 2010, 00:56:03: If anyone is interested send me a PM I guess.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 08 July 2010, 03:13:16: It's got blue cherry's? What would you sell it for? I could probably repair it by replacing the switches, since I'll have some left over from my scratch build, for like $20. Would underwrite my switch cost for the scorpius I stripped them off. lol

I'd like to get a look at one of those filcos too.

Oh are they plate or pcb mounted? Mine are plate...
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 08 July 2010, 07:00:17: They are plate mounted switches, so that means you do have to de-solder them on the back, pop them out the front, then you can open each switch to clean them. As long as you carefully pry/pop them out, you won't damage the switches or your keyboard.

Since they all register when pressed, there is nothing electrically wrong with the board, you just have sugary syrup inside the switches and the way a cherry blue switch works, there's a "slider on a slider" inside that clicks so if it's gummed up you won't get a click and it won't slide as smoothly.

Look at this incredible animation of a Cherry MX Blue switch (http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech/cherry_mx_click.swf), the white and blue parts (and switch housing) are gummed up and just need to be cleaned, but it takes some work to get to it.

I think you should try to it yourself. It will be very rewarding learning experience. Get a soldering iron, some solder and some desoldering wick from radioshack and just go for it. Here's a good video of what you need to do, but you'll be opening the switches and cleaning them.

Next time spill diet instead, it's not sticky. :)
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 08 July 2010, 07:12:30: If they're plate mounted I'll fix it for you for $20 plus shipping if you don't want to do it. Cherry mx blues cost like 1.50 minimum that I've seen, so if it's about 10-15 keys you're basically paying me for parts.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 08 July 2010, 08:14:03: If he'll fix it for $20 that is a really good deal. Chimera is doing you a favor for that price. If you don't take it on yourself, I wouldn't hesitate in having him do it.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: SpatiallyAware on Thu, 08 July 2010, 13:12:55: +1... Good on you chimera; I'd guess even if you've done this before it'll take 30-45min to get it open and replace those switches..
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 08 July 2010, 13:17:45: I can usually strip a full 104 key alps board in under an hour, and that's with bent pins. I've done dozens of them at this point. The Scorpius didn't take me much more than 30 minutes. I doubt it'll be much more difficult, but I've never worked on a filco before, so there are some unknowns.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 08 July 2010, 14:15:32: How do you straighten the pins when you do it? That's the part that aggravates me. I thoroughly enjoy doing switch swaps other than that.

I just bought one of these circuitry hooks (http://www.harborfreight.com/circuitry-hook-and-pry-tool-99745.html) from harborfreight but haven't used it yet.

(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_4296.jpg)

I've been very pleased with my Hakko soldering station though. :)

(http://www.tequipment.net/ProductImages/Hakko/FM-202_setup.jpg)
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Thu, 08 July 2010, 20:17:40: I use one of my tiny sculpture chisels that I sculpted miniatures with to pry them up while I have the desolderer on them, and after I've removed the majority of the solder. It's about a 3/16th flat that I made from a small screwdriver by sharpening it with a grinding wheel.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: audioave10 on Thu, 08 July 2010, 23:04:16: Great info in this thread. I haven't had to replace any keys yet.
The video was helpful.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: pseudolobster on Thu, 08 July 2010, 23:40:32: Just snort it out. :rolleyes:

Anyways, how well do alps stand up to dishwashers?

At work, I often get asked to fix laptop keyboards with beer etc spilled in them, and historically, I've just filled a bag with filtered water, thrown in the keyboard, and shook it for a minute, before pouring out and rinsing, then placing the keyboard over a pile of silica gel for two days. It's been 95% successful so far, but I can't help but think it'd be easier to shove it in a machine and be done with it.

I recently got an NTC 6251 that's been sitting on the floor in the corner of my shop for 15 years, and could use a good cleaning... I've already pulled apart an alps slider already trying to take the keys off, and I'm tempted to just toss it in the dishwasher instead.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 09 July 2010, 05:10:03: I wouldn't. Lots of stuff that can rust with alps boards. If not the switches, the plate.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4749328950_37940cf5ff_b.jpg)

You would have to disassemble every switch if you were going to try it as the switches could be full of water for weeks if you didn't.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 09 July 2010, 05:22:49: Quote from: chimera15;200933
I wouldn't. Lots of stuff that can rust with alps boards. If not the switches, the plate.

Show Image
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4749328950_37940cf5ff_b.jpg)

You would have to disassemble every switch if you were going to try it as the switches could be full of water for weeks if you didn't.

Dishwashers are only good with cheap crappy rubber domes right? Even then, it can warp the plastic or damage the processor.

It's kind of funny how newspapers and general gossip keeps touting that old "high quality" keyboards can be placed in the dishwasher... yeah... they obviously forgot about metal mechanical switches on TRUE keyboards.

And your disgusting keyboard with insect eggs and rust is absolutely puke-awful. Now, I like keyboards, but I could NEVER work on that, UGH. The seller for that keyboard should have paid you to take it, not vice versa.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: chimera15 on Fri, 09 July 2010, 05:37:57: I pulled all the switches out of it finally. There was a big beetle underneath the pcb, and some live spiders. I couldn't bring myself to take pictures of them, just had to kill them, and barely kept myself from throwing up. lol
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: didjamatic on Fri, 09 July 2010, 08:43:39: If it's dirty enough to need a full detail, I don't want it in the same appliance that washes my dishes. The last thing I need is to fill my dishwasher with 30 years of pubes, chips and horror.

Virtually all backplates can rust, though some early Model M's and others ones are zinc coated which would help inhibit it but not entirely. I have a theory that if it's 90+ degrees outside you could carefully pressure wash a keyboard, then set it out side to dry. The hot temperature would help any moisture evaporate, even inside switches. But I've never tried it. Ripster should give it a whirl on his NIB Ind. Mini.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Nonmouse on Fri, 09 July 2010, 09:42:22: Rinse it (liberally) with alcohol or acetone after the water and you should be fine. I wouldn't recommend running a board through the dishwasher, because of all the salts and crap in tap water- distilled or DI (deionized) water is the way to go.
Title: Spilled coke in keyboard! :(
Post by: Infinite north on Tue, 03 August 2010, 12:58:04: So what was the outcome of all this? or is the keyboard still in the mail?