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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Mechanical Atom on Sat, 10 July 2010, 21:02:08
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Hey guys, I'm new but have been reading your forums for a few days now.
After absolutely hating my G15 Logitech keyboard for the last year I started looking around at what everyone seems to recommend and I came across the glorious mechanical keyboards. I've been using computers for the last 23 years (started when i was 3), I've always been a pretty quick typist and to this day haven't enjoyed using a keyboard more then when I was just a kid using these mechanical keyboards...not sure why it even took me this long!
So after some research I found the best keyboard for me would be the Filco tenkeyless with Cherry Blue switches, I play RTS games for the most part, and do a lot of typing. I'm just so hesitant to drop the $130 or so on a keyboard that might not be as great as I remembered. With that in mind today I decided to dig through my dad's attic to see if he still had any of the old keyboards. Sure enough I came across a Dell-AT101 14140. Is there anything special about these I need to know? and is there any guides out for disassembling a mech keyboard? I don't really want to break my only test board.
Here's some pictures as well, you can see it's a bit dirty and definitely needs some cleaning to get out some "odd" substances...
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/P7100226.jpg)
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/P7100226.jpg)
Now I couldn't find too much information on this type of board since it's not a AT-101w, and most don't even seem to have the Dell logo like this? Any guess on how old this beast is? Thanks guys!
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pop a keycap and take a pic of the switches... might be alps but if its not a AT -101w then im not sure, the other guys should chime in with info..
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There was a model M rebranded (http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/13198/subcatid/0/id/155568) which has the same Dell logo:
(http://www.clickykeyboard.com/_ebay/5007497/5007497-004.jpg)
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Is that the old label bigfoot that allegedly has pink alps switches? Maybe make bend the ends on a couple of paperclips into hooks and use them to pry off a key and check the switch type and stem color.
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as i did some more research I found it might have the pink alps....I've been looking for paper clips for the last 15 minutes...wish me luck lol
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as i did some more research I found it might have the pink alps....I've been looking for paper clips for the last 15 minutes...wish me luck lol
Just use a damn butter knife and pry the sucker open!
Don't come crying to me if you break something...
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Don't come crying to me if you break something...
Ditto, but if you use the paperclips and apply even pressure on opposite sides, should go OK, works for me. But if you have any questions or concerns, should ask for additional guidance from some of the experts here before breaking something.
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Update?
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Here it is, actually found a thin pair of tweezers and bent them 90 degrees, it works perfectly! And here's the outcome:
they look a bit yellow in person, what do you guys think?
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/022.jpg)
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I take that back, i used a flashlight to shine on it so it has a white light on it, and they are without a doubt pink...
What do you guys think is the best method of cleaning up the board? I've always used rubbing alcohol, is that not a good idea with mechanical switches?
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(http://quixotictimes.com/images/antiqueroadshowclown.jpeg)
So how much is my rare Dell with pink sliders worth?
$512??? (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280502760893&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_2223wt_930)
Don't take that price as representative, sometimes these crazy Asian collectors are just well, crazy.
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wow :pop2:
However I know thats not the standard, the other one I saw on ebay went for $225 I believe. I'm not even sure if i'll sell it, depends how i like it once this old tank is all cleaned up.
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wow :pop2:
However I know thats not the standard, the other one I saw on ebay went for $225 I believe. I'm not even sure if i'll sell it, depends how i like it once this old tank is all cleaned up.
This is what I learned.
If you have something that you really like, and it's worth lots. Don't sell it. You'll find yourself just wanting it again.
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yeah my wife has told me like 4 times tonight to sell it and get the Filco...that last ebay post didn't help lol
But it's just like I told her, once i clean it up, use it for a couple days I'll make a decision. I just don't know what to expect with the Pink ALPS, I haven't even heard what it's suppose to feature, click? tactile? I'll take a wild noob guess and say its somewhere in between a Cherry Blue and a Cherry Black (don't really know the ALPS switches yet). It definitely has a click, especially on the keys that are 100% clean.
I need Ripster to bless my thread and tell me how i can do a simple cleanup on the switches. I have tons of computer/electronics hardware experience, but this is my first maintenance done on a mechanical keyboard and I would be lying if I told you I wasn't a little nervous to tear apart a rare vintage keyboard like this. I thought I was getting an old worthless beater that's been in an attic for 20 years :doh:
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yeah my wife has told me like 4 times tonight to sell it and get the Filco...that last ebay post didn't help lol
But it's just like I told her, once i clean it up, use it for a couple days I'll make a decision. I just don't know what to expect with the Pink ALPS, I haven't even heard what it's suppose to feature, click? tactile? I'll take a wild noob guess and say its somewhere in between a Cherry Blue and a Cherry Black (don't really know the ALPS switches yet). It definitely has a click, especially on the keys that are 100% clean.
I need Ripster to bless my thread and tell me how i can do a simple cleanup on the switches. I have tons of computer/electronics hardware experience, but this is my first maintenance done on a mechanical keyboard and I would be lying if I told you I wasn't a little nervous to tear apart a rare vintage keyboard like this. I thought I was getting an old worthless beater that's been in an attic for 20 years :doh:
They're Complicated ALPS - Tactile, Clicky (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=ALPS+switches#Complicated+ALPS+-+Tactile+Clicky). Guess some of these have sold for quite a bit lately. But I recall one going for BIN $10, another for $40, so can be had for less. Don't know if you'd be guaranteed too fetch a high bid if you put it up on ebay.
Below are some an old Apple keyboards in action, one with orange, one with pink.
hl=en_US&fs=1">[/youtube]
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thank you Texas! the pink alps apple keyboard is spot on with the sound, I'll take a picture once all the keys are out (about 20 minutes left if i stop taking smoke breaks!). At least they're honest with the name: "Complicated"!
Since what I was planning on getting was the Cherry Blue switches, I think this might work out pretty well!
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Alright so i'm down to the larger than normal keys...which ones do i need to worry about? I know the spacebar and the shift keys have stabilizers. My keyboard is pretty damn dirty, do i just remove all other keys and try to blow them out with canned air as much as possible? Or do i go for it and try to remove them?
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Alright so i'm down to the larger than normal keys...which ones do i need to worry about? I know the spacebar and the shift keys have stabilizers. My keyboard is pretty damn dirty, do i just remove all other keys and try to blow them out with canned air as much as possible? Or do i go for it and try to remove them?
Here are the Geekhack wiki links to cleaning articles & threads (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys#Cleaning) and a link to the "How do you clean your keyboard?" (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6199) thread.
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I've had some fairly good results cleaning my yellowed keyboards. The final results can be seen in the links in my signature.
For heavy yellowing on the frame, I used a product called Clairol Professional Creme 40, available at beauty supply shops for $5. Pure high concentration peroxide is often hard to come by, and I believe you have to mix it with another agent to allow it to be 'painted' on. The Clairol stuff, on the other hand, is already viscous and gelatinous, so it stays in place fairly well.
What I did was paint it on, then allow it to sit in the sun for about 12 hours total. I rinsed and reapplied a total of three times. Be sure to wear non-porous gloves, as this stuff is nasty to skin.
For the keycaps, I used a combination of the Clairol and regular OTC peroxide and allowed everything to soak in the sun. I've also had excellent results by simply soaking the keys in a hot water solution of Oxiclean and dish soap.
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Alright so i'm down to the larger than normal keys...which ones do i need to worry about? I know the spacebar and the shift keys have stabilizers. My keyboard is pretty damn dirty, do i just remove all other keys and try to blow them out with canned air as much as possible? Or do i go for it and try to remove them?
I'm assuming the keycaps are fairly dirty, so it's probably best to remove all of them and let 'em soak. They are not at all difficult to reinstall, especially with the wealth of knowledge available in this forum.
Just be careful removing everything, and don't lose anything. I've torn down every vintage keyboard I own with hours of purchase, and the only thing I've ever broken was the mounting stubs on the underside of two keycaps, but that was my own damn fault (I was using the 'pry' method on a really old keyboard). Stick to your tweezers and you'll likely be fine.
Worse case scenario, if you break anything, let me know. I've got a ton of AT101s (five functional, five for parts) and will send you replacement parts for the cost of postage.
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Hey guys thank you for the advice! I agree with you Third all the caps need to be removed, i want to do it right the first time. I'll edit this in a second and add the pictures of the nasty mess that is on the base of this poor thing.
Enjoy!
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/002-7.jpg)
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/003-6.jpg)
I'm sure you guys are use to seeing this type of mess on vintage keyboards, its just a first for me!
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Alright so I was able to clean up the keyboard and I'm pretty happy with the results. Here's a pic of the final product:
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/008-2.jpg)
I washed the key caps in the dishwasher (came out great!) I also have to attest to the toothpaste trick, I used a soniccare toothbrush and some whitening toothpaste on the casing and space bar which both have a night and day difference.
As of now I'm leaning towards selling it, just because I'd really like to have a tenkeyless model.
Thanks again for all the help guys!
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Alright so I was able to clean up the keyboard and I'm pretty happy with the results. Here's a pic of the final product: {redundant picture reference removed}
I washed the key caps in the dishwasher (came out great!) I also have to attest to the toothpaste trick, I used a soniccare toothbrush and some whitening toothpaste on the casing and space bar which both have a night and day difference.
As of now I'm leaning towards selling it, just because I'd really like to have a tenkeyless model.
Thanks again for all the help guys!
Looks pretty good. Be interesting to see if you can fetch enough to fund what you want. As a data point, I just did a search on recent sales of old logo Dell pink alps bigfoots and the last one I found went for $66.00 on July 3 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Dell-Keyboard-Pink-Alps-Sliders-Old-Logo-101-/180526475374?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0837686e).
Was the corrosion on the plate inside? Did you try cleaning that up at all or just figure "out of sight, out of mind"? Figure you'd probably want to at least knock off the big chunks so they don't turn into rattles but not sure how far it's worth to go.
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Oh i spent a lot of time trying to make that as clean as possible without taking out the switches. Problem was with a lot of the thin build up it was a nightmare to get off and when it did come off it took the silver color right off the base as you can see in these pictures:
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/007-2.jpg)
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/006-2.jpg)
Overall i'm satisfied as there is no rattling and the keyboard operates very well especially for being 20 years old, all the keys work, but the only issue i'll have to take a look at is the fact the spacebar switch is sticking ever so slightly. I have some silicone grease I'm going to use to get it freed up, is there any other tricks without taking the switch apart?
Also I'm not too worried about the board getting a huge sale, but it would be nice just to get enough for a Majestouch keyless. If not, I'll still get one anyways :decision:
I'll give it a couple days regardless to see if it warms up to me before I post it for sale.
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Oh i spent a lot of time trying to make that as clean as possible without taking out the switches. Problem was with a lot of the thin build up it was a nightmare to get off and when it did come off it took the silver color right off the base as you can see in these pictures: {redundant picture links removed}
That's very impressive, a night and day improvement. How did you remove the corrosion or whatever it was?
...the only issue I'll have to take a look at is the fact the spacebar switch is sticking ever so slightly. I have some silicone grease I'm going to use to get it freed up, is there any other tricks without taking the switch apart?
Check out the 'Lubricating Alps?" (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10489&do=comments&highlight=lubricant) thread from not long back for quite a bit of alps lube discussion.
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http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo31/drinkmixer8484/003-6.jpg[/IMG]
Mmmm... Boardchow!!!
Yum....
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Thanks Texas, I didn't even post the pictures originally because I wasn't proud of the outcome, but then again I'm stubborn and wanted perfection :frusty:
I used Rubbing Alcohol, Clorox Wipes, Q tips, Canned Air, Phillips and Flat-edge screwdrivers. I did a row at a time and I started by using Q tips and Rubbing Alcohol, I used low pressure with the Q tip and went over all the build up. Then I wrapped a Clorox Wipe around a Phillips screwdriver, used a little more pressure, and got off most of the corrosion. Whatever I couldn't get I used the Flat edge driver + clorox wipe. This was probably where the paint came off, but so did the corrosion. Immediately after I was done with this part I made sure to use canned air because if I just went on to the next row the crap I just cleaned off the base would dry and harden within 2 minutes...
I have no idea what was on there, but it was pretty disgusting!
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I'm happy with my white ALPS keyboard I bought for 20 bucks. A little expensive, but it's a good keyboard.
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I dunno, I mean, you can usually tell if you hate a keyboard, within the first hour to week, if it doesn't involve a learning curve. To tell whether or not you should part with a keyboard, I'd say you usually should give it closer to thirty days. The cleaning and all that, it would grow on me.
I couldn't sell it until I'd given it thirty days, then given the Filco thirty days and picked the Filco and even then I'd probably keep it for back up. Never mind that. If you have that kind of mentality, you'll end up with a collection like other members.
Good job on the clean up.
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Wash, I hear what you're saying, I just have a couple different games I like playing, and also I do quite a bit of my work from home at night's. So after a few days i have a pretty good idea how i feel about the board.
Truth be told, I do like typing on the keyboard, but I really think I would be won over by the Blue Cherry Switches, or a IBM Model M Mini. Also the fact that it doesn't have a windows key is a big factor...I know the Model M doesn't have one, but the Model M isn't potentially worth this much. The fact that I could get at least 2 keyboards of my choice that I know I would like vs 1 rare keyboard I kinda like.
I'm going to raise my ebay rating a little bit over the next week and probably post it for around 60 bucks and see what happens from there. No matter what there's going to be a mechanical keyboard I'm typing on!
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If you're unsure about selling the keyboard, test them relatively.
Get a DAS keyboard from their online store. They have a 30 day money back guarantee, which, under United States law, means they have to give a refund within that time if asked (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm):
If your ad uses phrases like "satisfaction guaranteed" or "money-back guarantee," you must be willing to give full refunds for any reason. You also must tell the consumer the terms of the offer.
DAS' terms on that are (http://www.daskeyboard.com/guarantee/):
Money-back guarantee for 30 days after the purchase - product needs to be in its original condition and packaging
So buy a DAS with blues, and if you like the pink alps more, return the DAS and get your money back.
If you don't like the pink alps as much, sell the AT101 for more than you paid for the DAS. Or if you really like the look of the Filco instead, return the DAS anyways and buy a Filco with MX Blues.
Either way, you win.
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Just a update, I put the keyboard up for sale, it sold for $400 outside of eBay :biggrin:
Some of that money has been used to buy iMav's Filco Otaku keyboard with Blue Cherrys. Can't wait to check it out!
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Just a update, I put the keyboard up for sale, it sold for $400 outside of eBay :biggrin:
Some of that money has been used to buy iMav's Filco Otaku keyboard with Blue Cherrys. Can't wait to check it out!
That is a fairy-tale find, congrats!
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Just a update, I put the keyboard up for sale, it sold for $400 outside of eBay :biggrin:
Some of that money has been used to buy iMav's Filco Otaku keyboard with Blue Cherrys. Can't wait to check it out!
HOLY CRAP!!! Where did you end up selling yours? I think one of mine is an old Dell pink as well, have to double check it's still there, my wife has threatened to toss it more than once. Mine has some yellowing issues and is probably a good candidate for a rebr0brite test and to be honest I never checked to verify it had alps pink switches but probably does just have to verify. If I could get 1/2 of that I'd be amazed. On the other hand I might just keep it.
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turns out the guy is trying to scam me :(
He did the old send me a check with way more money on it than i was asking for. He also wants me to Western Union the remaining money. Bummer, I'll put it back up on ebay...it was looking in pretty good shape for a decent sale as well....However some good news....
I got my Otaku w/ Blue Cherry switches today from iMav. I have to say this is easily the best keyboard i have ever typed on. So at least some good news today!
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I know nothing myself, but according to Bob over at Northgatekeyboardrepair.com, blowing out ALPS switches is a no-no and does more damage than good. He says vacuum is the way to go -
Suck, yes; Blow, NO!