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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 12 July 2010, 22:15:07

Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 12 July 2010, 22:15:07
Alright, recently I picked up an IBM G70 CRT (for free from a kind dutch fellow, no, not webwit), type 6544-403. IBM didn't seem to have any PDFs on this thing for download which is too bad. So, I'll post what I've learned from personal experience.
These things were made from 1995 to 1997. Mine happens to be a 1996 production.
I think mrA500 had one of these too.

Here's a few pros:
A) very thick chassis, metal plated, sturdy and very well built base (swivels nicely, isn't flimsy.
B) the front panel is laid out logically, and the panel buttons are made out of rubber with a very clicky mechanism. The brightness and contrast have their own special buttons above the lower panel.
C) the tube turns on very quickly, and isn't loud. It's actually like a soft ponging buckling spring.
D) the picture is 100% perfectly sharp, the colours are all pure and not discoloured like many older CRTs (I've seen some green tinted ADI ones).
E) It's beige! Okay most people wouldn't consider that a plus.

Here's some cons:
A) there could be more ventilation holes, the C170s are very open.
B) lots of little crevices for dirt, it is possible to clean but time consuming. Good thing I only had to do it once.
C) the VGA cable is kind of thick and heavy... not as flexible as I'd like it. It does say "IBM" on the end of the cable like a model M SDL cord. The logo on the monitor itself looks like the model M style. Very cool.

With that aside, I want to say I am astounded with the tube. You know how most CRTs when you're displaying a white screen, then quickly change to black how the screen shrinks and grows? Well this one doesn't do that! It's actually the first tube I've seen to be resilient to that annoying growing/shrinking with brightness and darkness; it's firm as a rock, and weighs like one too. My IBM C170 CRTs actually do that, they're definitely not as good quality as this one, but support higher refresh rates.

Another thing with this CRT is the moire, there are no issues with it at all, and the colours don't even "bleed" in the corners.

It's the most purest of pure tubes I have seen... I wish I could have one of these things for every computer! But they're quite heavy, especially for a mere 17". Must be all of that high-quality goodness inside.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: Xuan on Mon, 12 July 2010, 23:36:43
Looks like a review (http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=38)?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 12 July 2010, 23:56:13
Oh, I didn't know there was a review section.

Yeah, I'd consider it as a review.

Kishy, this monitor is excellent. I'm glad I took MW's advice. It's the best CRT I've used or seen.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Tue, 13 July 2010, 01:36:13
The only CRT's I would have back were the ones based on the Trinitron tubes, or, preferably, LaCie Electron Blue's. I had 2 of the Latter, and had to sell them off due to space constraints. Stunning Monitors that double up as space heaters in the winter. No joke, I never needed to turn my heating on in the winter if these were running.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: hyperlinked on Tue, 13 July 2010, 03:46:43
Quote from: kishy;202168
Enjoy it if you must, but the G70 is not a terribly nice monitor. I stand by my recommendation to look for Viewsonic CRTs.


I've used their CRTs at a previous job before and they seemed like decent monitors. They didn't leave a stunningly good or bad impression. I do seem to remember that their LCD monitors are to be avoided though.

I had a couple of Trinitrons and I do remember them to be excellent.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 06:44:26
Quote from: Xuan;202150
Looks like a review (http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=38)?


Review section is for keyboards.

Thankfully.

Only CRTs I'd be interested in are vintage ones for use with the appropriate computers. I can appreciate that certain high-end CRTs (and I assume that this IBM thingy is not one of them) offer better colour/picture quality than even the best flatscreens. But I don't need that level of accuracy, so the numerous advantages of flatscreens are more important to me.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 08:53:31
Quote from: ch_123;202206
Review section is for keyboards.

Thankfully.

Only CRTs I'd be interested in are vintage ones for use with the appropriate computers. I can appreciate that certain high-end CRTs (and I assume that this IBM thingy is not one of them) offer better colour/picture quality than even the best flatscreens. But I don't need that level of accuracy, so the numerous advantages of flatscreens are more important to me.


If this CRT isn't high end, then what is? You can't really get much better than this one already. That would also make all modern CRTs low-end.

Like I said, the tube on this thing is amazing, it doesn't get distorted when changing from brighter to darker screens like all CRTs I've used. And the fact that it has perfect colour & sharpness is another amazing thing (I'm not sure how it was used before I obtained it).

But eh, most people don't know quality when it stares them in the face; I don't go by "brand names", I just use the object until I see how well it performs. And yes, there are IBM products which I don't like.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 09:05:32
I mean serious professional ones that cost thousands. The sort that doesn't come as an OEM bundle with a generic business computer.

Most of the perception of flatscreens being **** come from cheap TN panels. I had no real idea of why people still liked CRTs until my neighbor bought a computer with a cheap TN Dell screen. It was so noticeably terrible that I told them to ring up Dell and get a replacement (I don't think they followed up on that)

That said, I don't think I've ever had a flatscreen that wasn't an IPS. The quality of these mean that I can't really justify buying some expensive CRT that is hard to lift and eats up loads of power. Oh, and have fun finding a 30" CRT for the same price as a good 30" flat screen.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 12:26:30
Quote from: kishy;202258
...but you like one of the worst products they ever produced!


If this monitor is so bad, prove it. It's better than all of the CRTs you've owned or used. Like I said, the tube is resistant to distortion with light change.

And my 300PLs couldn't have worked better. They get the job done well. The only IBM comptuers I'm not so fond of are netvistas and aptivas.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 12:30:04
Quote from: ch_123;202229
I mean serious professional ones that cost thousands. The sort that doesn't come as an OEM bundle with a generic business computer.

Most of the perception of flatscreens being **** come from cheap TN panels. I had no real idea of why people still liked CRTs until my neighbor bought a computer with a cheap TN Dell screen. It was so noticeably terrible that I told them to ring up Dell and get a replacement (I don't think they followed up on that)

That said, I don't think I've ever had a flatscreen that wasn't an IPS. The quality of these mean that I can't really justify buying some expensive CRT that is hard to lift and eats up loads of power. Oh, and have fun finding a 30" CRT for the same price as a good 30" flat screen.


Price doesn't always determine quality, you should know that (usually the more expensive tags are just a gimmick -- psychologically people assume the more expensive something is, the better it must be). These are definitely not generic CRTs, manfucated in US by IBM themselves!

I wouldn't want a 30" CRT or LCD. I don't watch TV -- and if I need a monitor that big in front of me, I need serious help with my eyes.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 12:37:25
1996, lol.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: Xuan on Tue, 13 July 2010, 13:23:41
Quote from: ch_123;202206
Review section is for keyboards.

Thankfully.


It should but it's not.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 15:10:10
Quote from: kishy;202278
I was not referring to the G70 monitor, however it is 'typical' at best.

Indeed, the 300PL. Have you actually seen a computer of equal age and spec from any other manufacturer or even off-the-shelf home assembled rigs?

Things you'll find when comparing the 300PL to other similar machines:
  • 300PL has worse case airflow
  • 300PL has worse case materials
  • 300PL has worse 'fit and finish'
  • 300PL has ineffeciently designed absolutely huge motherboard with 'typical at best' integrated features and expansion options
  • because of the above point, 300PL takes up a massive amount of desk real estate
  • The concept of using a riser card to mount cards in parallel to the motherboard completely defeats the benefits of a desktop-style case (though this is only an issue if you're using a PCI graphics card of any decent capabilities)
  • 300PL's cable routing can cause cable damage in certain circumstances


The only true benefit I can think of is that the PSU is standard, so when it fails because of terrible airflow, a replacement would not be hard to install.


The picture on the monitor is perfect -- and there's no distortion. Most CRTs (especially ones that old) have some kind of issues. Especially with moire.

The PSU on my 300PL is fine! Although it is rather cramped in there. I fixed some of the cables so it had more air. It's only 100 watts I believe; probably the less power running through a PSU, the more longevity it has -- assuming the parts are of decent quality.

I rather liked the massive motherboard on the 300PL, it makes everything easier to see and interesting to look at. I also find the riser card kind of clever -- with the power plug on the opposite side facing the PSU.

To be honest, I never really paid attention to the size of it, I guess it is fairly big, but it just doesn't seem like that. Probably because it's flat.

Anyways, time to go play castlevania for MS DOS (I want to finish that stupid frustrating game).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:31:17
It's just a Pentium. Who cares about air flow?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:31:47
Quote from: ch_123;202206
Review section is for keyboards.

Thankfully.


No it isn't. You should read it carefully.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 17:37:32
All (or at least almost all) of the reviews are about keyboards.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:05:27
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202225
If this CRT isn't high end, then what is? You can't really get much better than this one already. That would also make all modern CRTs low-end.


I dare you to say My LaCie's were low end. They were pretty much the best CRT's ever made, and would annihilate your G70 in every possible way, barring Power Consumption and weight (They were farking HEAVY!).

Please, stop spouting your opinions as fact. There is a reason people who needed accuracy used these monitors to make a living. The same reason I shelled out £1500 for the pair, and that was at EOL Firesale prices. The resolution was epic, sharpest picture I have ever seen, and with the bundled colour calibration device, the most accurate monitor I have ever used. The fact that they do not have your beloved IBM sticker attached is and are therefore outside of your personal spectrum of "good" products, quote frankly, irrelevant. There were plenty of monitors made that would walk all over yours. I get offered them for free on a regular basis (Diamond Pro's w/ a Trinitron tube come to mind as one of the better pro-sumer CRT's, I was offered a pallet of 25, free to anyone who bothered to collect them)
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:27:14
Quote from: InSanCen;202361
I dare you to say My LaCie's were low end. They were pretty much the best CRT's ever made, and would annihilate your G70 in every possible way, barring Power Consumption and weight (They were farking HEAVY!).

Please, stop spouting your opinions as fact. There is a reason people who needed accuracy used these monitors to make a living. The same reason I shelled out £1500 for the pair, and that was at EOL Firesale prices. The resolution was epic, sharpest picture I have ever seen, and with the bundled colour calibration device, the most accurate monitor I have ever used. The fact that they do not have your beloved IBM sticker attached is and are therefore outside of your personal spectrum of "good" products, quote frankly, irrelevant. There were plenty of monitors made that would walk all over yours. I get offered them for free on a regular basis (Diamond Pro's w/ a Trinitron tube come to mind as one of the better pro-sumer CRT's, I was offered a pallet of 25, free to anyone who bothered to collect them)

LaCie just OEMs stuff, they don't make anything. I can prove it with my EXTREMELY OVERPRICED LaCie external hard drive. It's actually an hitachi with a glossy LaCie case.
It's 200GB I think -- cost well over $150. The reason why I got it was because all the other external hard drives were in some funky colours, stuff I use has to be business-appropriate. Overpriced internals that they never made (most likely with CRTs that they made -- never knew they made any).

The G70 actually has a plastic badge (with a painted embossed IBM). Stickers are for Greenock model Ms and lenovo pads. Now it's probably not power efficient at all, however it is heavy. It's a whopping 47 pounds for only being 17". The colour of it is so perfect that you can't get any better. It's very sharp, flicker free, and is made in USA, not china.

EDIT: Hrm... I'm wondering if it's a little heavy for the top of my 300PL -- but I guess quality + quality = even more quality.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:33:02
LaCie makes overpriced hard drives. Therefore their monitors are bad?

Do they like, teach stupidity in schools on the American continent? I don't even...

Quote
The G70 actually has a plastic badge (with a painted embossed IBM). Stickers are for Greenock model Ms and lenovo pads. Now it's probably not power efficient at all, however it is heavy. It's a whopping 47 pounds for only being 17". The colour of it is so perfect that you can't get any better. It's very sharp, flicker free, and is made in USA, not china.


In the late 90s and early 2000s, the Greenock factory had become economically un-viable for manufacturing... anything, but the Scottish government funneled money into IBM to prevent them closing the plant. So things like laptops were partially assembled in places like Hungary, and the boys in Greenock wired in the keyboard, installed the RAM or hard drive, and under whatever way the appropriate laws work, they could claim that they were made in Scotland, even though the parts, and most of the actual work original elsewhere.

Same with the keyboards - I have a Model M2 from 1993, and the controller logic has Lexmark markings on it. I'd say that most if not all of the parts of the keyboards were just made by Lexmark and shipped over to be put together.

The idea that IBM, in the late 90s when it was almost going bankrupt, would actually make their own CRTs seems pretty lulzy to me. Maybe they made the nice IBM sticker than went over the made in China sign? =P
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:55:31
In fairness, I think they did. Why wouldn't they after all?

I was rather amused to see that my Lenovo Thinkpad came with a Hitachi (who bought IBM's hard drive manufacturing division) hard drive and a Matsu****a (the manufacturer of some IBM floppy drives I have) DVD drive. Some things never change.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:56:59
Every DVD drive I've used to date (Samsung, Asus, LG, Sony, whatever) is recognized as TSSTCorp (or something like that) in device manager.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 18:59:59
From the power of Google, to the center of your cranium -

Quote
TSSTCorp Toshiba Samsung Storage Technology Corporation (TSST) is an international joint venture company of Toshiba Corporation (Japan) and Samsung


I'm pretty sure Optiarc (the collaboration between Sony and NEC) actually make their own stuff, and that there are a few prominent OEMs in the market.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 19:01:44
Quote from: kishy;202393
Grr, you're impacting my ability to clear all new posts! lololol.

I'm sure there were some applications where it wasn't feasible for one reason or another.

If necessary I'll exemplify the 5160: Seagate ST-412.


Back then, IBM made real "Winchester Disks" for real men - things the size of dishwashers... I don't think IBM cared enough about the PC market at that stage to make their own stuff.

I think that probably changed after the fiasco with the "Computer Memories" drives used in the PC/AT that had something like a 20-30% failure rate. Ouch...

A cookie for anyone who can say why they were called Winchester Disks without looking it up... It's a story that reflects badly on certain stereotypes about Americans that us Europeans have...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: Xuan on Tue, 13 July 2010, 19:13:47
Quote from: Xuan;202280
It should but it's not.


Quote from: microsoft windows;202348
No it isn't. You should read it carefully.


I've changed my mind, the section is only for keyboards.
I will keep my "For once I agree with MS Windows" card for another time.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 19:14:11
It amuses me how worked-up some of you all get when somebody tells us that he likes a monitor he got the other day.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: maxlugar on Tue, 13 July 2010, 20:21:59
Quote from: InSanCen;202182
The only CRT's I would have back were the ones based on the Trinitron tubes, or, preferably, LaCie Electron Blue's. I had 2 of the Latter, and had to sell them off due to space constraints. Stunning Monitors that double up as space heaters in the winter. No joke, I never needed to turn my heating on in the winter if these were running.


The Sony Trinitrons were excellent CRT TVs and monitors.

I'm still using FD flat screen Trinitron monitors that were packaged with the CCTV system at my club.  They are about 10 years old, but still function very well.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 20:33:25
Quote from: maxlugar;202431
The Sony Trinitrons were excellent CRT TVs and monitors.

I'm still using FD flat screen Trinitron monitors that were packaged with the CCTV system at my club.  They are about 10 years old, but still function very well.


I have a 1995 RCA TV, its colour is just as good as it was 15 years ago.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 20:35:11
I just use an old Magnavox TV I got 17 years ago after my old one broke. It keeps on working so why replace it?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 13 July 2010, 20:36:42
Quote from: Xuan;202400
I've changed my mind, the section is only for keyboards.
I will keep my "For once I agree with MS Windows" card for another time.


You're wrong. The Reviews section says absolutely nothing about being just for keyboards. Coming to think about it, it actually for reviewing your IBM monitors.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 13 July 2010, 20:56:54
Heh, IBM made some good CRTs (most were average) but there are others which made great ones too and the final-model Sonys were the best.  Anyway, the G series is a budget model, the P series were the good ones.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Tue, 13 July 2010, 21:02:18
Quote from: D-EJ915;202440
Heh, IBM made some good CRTs (most were average) but there are others which made great ones too and the final-model Sonys were the best.  Anyway, the G series is a budget model, the P series were the good ones.

The Amiga 500 is a budget model too ;)

What's budget back then is high quality today.

The P series were mainly big CRTs, like the P201:
(http://www.recycledgoods.com/zoom_s_p_34036_1.jpg.ashx)

20" is too big... 70 pounds. The G series was more home-user oriented. Same quality.

You'll notice the control buttons are the same as on the G ones.

EDIT: Although I wouldn't mind using that as an alternative to my L190 LCD lol. It would have a big enough resolution for sure. And it's black to match.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: unicomp on Wed, 14 July 2010, 11:36:55
Quote from: microsoft windows;202401
It amuses me how worked-up some of you all get when somebody tells us that he likes a monitor he got the other day.


In order to quell said amusement it might be pertinent to note that this is not just "somebody".
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: timw4mail on Wed, 14 July 2010, 13:16:35
I've got a Sony GDM-500PS, and it's the only monitor I have better than my 2 Dell 2209WAs.

That's a nice CRT. :p
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Wed, 14 July 2010, 16:41:19
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202370
LaCie just OEMs stuff, they don't make anything. I can prove it with my EXTREMELY OVERPRICED LaCie external hard drive.


You really have no idea kiddo. WTF has a hard drive got to do with your blanket assertion that modern CRT monitors are ****?

I can assure you they are not, I compared them back to back with several Trinitron tubes, and there was significant difference in favour of the Lacie's. If there had been little or no difference, I would have saved ~£1000 and bought a new engine I needed for the Trike. Pull your head out of your arse, not all modern or non-IBM stuff is crap, and shouting louder when you are called on it won't make any difference. The G70 get's **** on from a great height when compared to high-end monitors.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: Pylon on Wed, 14 July 2010, 19:39:50
If you want to see how bad LCDs get I have an old Panasonic TN from 1999. Huge gamma shifts, it has those light hoirzontal bands when you have dark stuff being displayed, and has next to no viewing angle. My FE700+ CRT absolutely blows it away IQ wise. It even gets less glare than most matte screen LCDs under normal conditions. If it weren't for the fact that I get loads of eyestrain I'd totally be using a CRT right now.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Wed, 14 July 2010, 20:45:44
Quote from: Xuan;202400
I've changed my mind, the section is only for keyboards.
I will keep my "For once I agree with MS Windows" card for another time.


That section is actually specifically for reviewing IBM monitors.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Wed, 14 July 2010, 21:20:00
Quote from: Pylon;202784
If you want to see how bad LCDs get I have an old Panasonic TN from 1999. Huge gamma shifts, it has those light hoirzontal bands when you have dark stuff being displayed, and has next to no viewing angle. My FE700+ CRT absolutely blows it away IQ wise. It even gets less glare than most matte screen LCDs under normal conditions. If it weren't for the fact that I get loads of eyestrain I'd totally be using a CRT right now.

Ironically, I never experienced many weird issues with LCDs like gama shifting -- I have witnessed the horizontal banding -- it's especially common with dithered pixels.
I don't get eyestrain from CRTs -- I do get eyestrain from LCDs and burned images in my eyes for awhile. Technically, a fluorescent backlight should hurt your eyes more than a good 'ole CRT. But everyone's eyes are different!

Quote from: InSanCen;202722
You really have no idea kiddo. WTF has a hard drive got to do with your blanket assertion that modern CRT monitors are ****?

I can assure you they are not, I compared them back to back with several Trinitron tubes, and there was significant difference in favour of the Lacie's. If there had been little or no difference, I would have saved ~£1000 and bought a new engine I needed for the Trike. Pull your head out of your arse, not all modern or non-IBM stuff is crap, and shouting louder when you are called on it won't make any difference. The G70 get's **** on from a great height when compared to high-end monitors.

The hard drive thing was merely a footnote and didn't consist of my whole argument. I said the IBM ones were indeed heavier 'cause they are. Ones that have no problems, such as my G70, are indeed very high quality. There are no moire problems, the colour is perfect, it has a nice interface, is flicker-free, and has a nice quiet tube.
Of course not all non-IBM stuff is crap, but the fact you paid so much (partly for a brand name, and partly as a specialty item) makes it really irrelevant wit the G70 is just as good, or maybe even better. When your lacie CRT(s) have a bad picture, my old ones will still have perfect colour and contrast. And the fact that I got it for free is a bonus. I've got so much of my computer stuff for free! I never would have thought...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Wed, 14 July 2010, 21:58:11
Most people's eyes don't hurt because of the CRT design itself but because of the low refresh rates they use.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Wed, 14 July 2010, 22:54:55
Quote from: D-EJ915;202808
Most people's eyes don't hurt because of the CRT design itself but because of the low refresh rates they use.


Need anti-flicker then.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Thu, 15 July 2010, 04:13:28
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202795
Of course not all non-IBM stuff is crap, but the fact you paid so much (partly for a brand name, and partly as a specialty item) makes it really irrelevant wit the G70 is just as good, or maybe even better.


You're still not getting it. After looking around, the G70 is average. no more, No less. It's not a Bad monitor, but it's not something Graphic Design and Image Editing people will buy. The Lacie's were. Do you really think that a Design house would spend $1500 on a single monitor if they could get away with £200 for something? At the end of the day, they are a business, in it to make money.

Mine came from a design house with nearly 50 of these monitors, and the chap in charge of purchasing is not a fool. He's not brand orientated, but is performance orientated. These were the sharpest, most accurate monitors around, and so bought them.

The G70 is NOT "just as good, or maybe even better", not by any stretch of your imagination. It's comparing a stock Supra to a Porsche GT3! To hell with the brand name, performance is everything.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 15 July 2010, 04:20:10
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202795
but the fact you paid so much (partly for a brand name


And here children, is where the pot called the kettle black.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Thu, 15 July 2010, 07:45:20
lol
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Thu, 15 July 2010, 17:47:39
Quote from: ch_123;202877
And here children, is where the pot called the kettle black.

I never paid a pretty penny for any of my IBMs is the point I was trying to make. I either got good deals or obtained it for free. People neglect a lot of this good stuff! So you can find good gems in the mud if you look. I wouldn't pay $$$$ for some sony or lacie CRTs. Unless they would last forever like all older CRTs.

Ironically, IBM hasn't gotten much money from me lol. And the fact that they build their computers so solid removes the need to buy another one ever again (don't bring up my intellistations, that's a different situation).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: unicomp on Thu, 15 July 2010, 17:52:05
Quote from: EverythingIBM;203114
removes the need to buy another one ever again


Interesting proposal.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Thu, 15 July 2010, 20:42:26
Your CRTs will get worse over time dude, you just don't notice it because you never used your stuff when it was new and it's a gradual process.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 16 July 2010, 01:33:26
Quote from: D-EJ915;203179
Your CRTs will get worse over time dude, you just don't notice it because you never used your stuff when it was new and it's a gradual process.


I've used some pretty old CRTs... if they're made well, they can last pretty much forever. They only degrade if abused.
I only had a new CRT once, and it already had dead pixels & moire problems right out of the box (it also would shift with light/dark colours like all crappy CRTs I've used). So, a lot of them are manufactured that way.

And the G70 is far from new, being 14 years old with perfect colour/picture is good enough for me. I love the flicker-free technology.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 16 July 2010, 12:11:24
Quote from: D-EJ915;203179
Your CRTs will get worse over time dude, you just don't notice it because you never used your stuff when it was new and it's a gradual process.


Guess what? Your fancy LCD will degrade much faster.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 16 July 2010, 17:10:53
Quote from: microsoft windows;203351
Guess what? Your fancy LCD will degrade much faster.


Good CRTs will probably outlive most people! Seriously. They only degrade if manufactured in a poor way, kind of like capacitors.

LCDs, while probably able to last a long time (I've seen some ancient beige IBM LCDs at cashier tills), get faulty backlights. Fluorescent bulbs hurt my eyes...

Time to go play heroes 1, test some EDO RAM, do some math, and write up a resume w/ portfolio... my oh my what a busy schedule.

You know math is getting to your head when you do calculations revolving around 256 for fun on the bus.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 16 July 2010, 17:39:39
Quote from: kishy;203404
Protip: resumes which appear to have been printed on a dot matrix printer will likely be discarded immediately.


If I had a dot matrix printer, I would totally do that.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 16 July 2010, 18:04:26
You should write your resumes backwards.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 16 July 2010, 18:05:38
Quote from: microsoft windows;203431
You should write your resumes backwards.


Only if I "had connections" like someone else.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: Hak Foo on Fri, 16 July 2010, 21:18:35
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202271
If this monitor is so bad, prove it. It's better than all of the CRTs you've owned or used. Like I said, the tube is resistant to distortion with light change.

And my 300PLs couldn't have worked better. They get the job done well. The only IBM comptuers I'm not so fond of are netvistas and aptivas.


In 2005, I traded a brand-new $350 LCD Viewsonic VX910 for a $65 used Sun GDM-5410.  Gorgeous picture.  2048x1536 at 60Hz, 1600x1200 at 85.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 17 July 2010, 20:00:15
Quote from: Hak Foo;203492
In 2005, I traded a brand-new $350 LCD Viewsonic VX910 for a $65 used Sun GDM-5410.  Gorgeous picture.  2048x1536 at 60Hz, 1600x1200 at 85.

According to this website (http://www.computerdisplays.co.uk/21%20inch%20monitors/sun%20gdm.htm), it's a trinitron rebranded with a sun logo.

I do like the case however, cool lavender strip. Much better than the ugly sony ones:
(http://cdn2.ioffer.com/img/item/104/495/117/muTT.jpg)

If I ever see one of those, I'll be sure to pick it up. I'd love 640x480 on 21"

Most definitely better than viewsonic. I used viewsonic before... I thought they were too blurry for my taste.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 17 July 2010, 20:14:53
Quote from: kishy;203727
Quite literally, you won't be picking it up. They weigh easily as much as the computers they tend to go with (70lbs).

Friend has one. Ridiculously sharp image (sickeningly so, in fact) but absolutely huge in the wrong way (depth).


Awww man! You're making me starting to want one now. But shipping one of those would be too much. Might put an ad for one later; I'm sure there's someone who's willing to give it for free or a small fee.
I'm actually very strong; I inadvertently get lots of exercise.
Although, I'd have to wear something (leather gloves?) to protect my hands from getting blisters carrying a heavy **** thing like that.

You think it would fit nicely on top of my 300PL?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sat, 17 July 2010, 20:26:04
Quote from: kishy;203734
Quite seriously, don't put it on a 300PL. I do not exaggerate when I talk about the poor case design. It could easily be damaged beyond repair by a 70lb CRT monitor.

When carrying monitors like this I tend to carry them with the screen against my chest and hands on the bottom sides about halfway to the back.

I was kidding. It would crush most computers, or at least make them bow. I'm actually wondering if even 47 pounds is a little heavy for it.

Sometimes if I'm carrying a big computer for long distances (such as walking home with one), I rest it on my belt. That way it makes it effortless.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Sun, 18 July 2010, 03:19:09
Quote from: Hak Foo;203492
In 2005, I traded a brand-new $350 LCD Viewsonic VX910 for a $65 used Sun GDM-5410.  Gorgeous picture.  2048x1536 at 60Hz, 1600x1200 at 85.


Having had a look at the specs, I suspect that the LaCie's used the same tube. Same resolution, and the description of it's sharpness is spot on.

I'll be having a look out for one at that kind of price.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Sun, 18 July 2010, 14:14:55
I wouldn't be surprised, Sony made those
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 18 July 2010, 15:07:52
Quote from: D-EJ915;203887
I wouldn't be surprised, Sony made those

Quote from: EverythingIBM;203726
According to this website (http://www.computerdisplays.co.uk/21%20inch%20monitors/sun%20gdm.htm), it's a trinitron rebranded with a sun logo.

Indeed.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 18 July 2010, 20:32:15
Quote from: EverythingIBM;203736
I was kidding. It would crush most computers, or at least make them bow. I'm actually wondering if even 47 pounds is a little heavy for it.

Sometimes if I'm carrying a big computer for long distances (such as walking home with one), I rest it on my belt. That way it makes it effortless.


I've ridden home from work on a bicycle with a computer once, an LCD another time.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Sun, 18 July 2010, 21:33:38
Quote from: microsoft windows;203983
I've ridden home from work on a bicycle with a computer once, an LCD another time.


That's a great way to save money instead of buying gas all the time... and exercise too.
It's a win/win.

It would be cool if you could carry a 70 pound CRT on your bike though.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 08:34:17
Quote from: EverythingIBM;202370
LaCie just OEMs stuff, they don't make anything. I can prove it with my EXTREMELY OVERPRICED LaCie external hard drive. It's actually an hitachi with a glossy LaCie case.
It's 200GB I think -- cost well over $150. The reason why I got it was because all the other external hard drives were in some funky colours, stuff I use has to be business-appropriate. Overpriced internals that they never made (most likely with CRTs that they made -- never knew they made any).


I did read this whole thread. You people may know keyboards, but SOME of you def have your head up your ass when it comes to computers in general.


Most monitor manufacturers did not make all their internals. This is still the case, but really has **** all to do with the overall quality. In fact, what company DOES design, build and implemented all of the technology in a given electronic?
 

Quote

The colour of it is so perfect that you can't get any better.


Yes, you can.

Since we are actually arguing LaCie monitors vs. this IBM, I can tell EverythingIBM really has no, even ENTHUSIAST, graphic/design/photo background.

Up until about 2004-5, the Sony and Mitsubishi Aperture-grille (Trinitron and Diamondtron) were really the ONLY monitors anyone bought for use as calibrated displays in the aforementioned fields. The LaCies, along with NEC CRTs, were LUSTED after (they were diamondtron based), as were Sony's "Artisan". The LaCies, as did the artisan, even packaged with their own hood and hardware calibrator (which the still do for their high-end LCDs).

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/sony-artisan.shtml

http://www.computerdisplays.co.uk/21%20inch%20monitors/lacie_BlueII_22.htm

enlighten yourself.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 08:42:44
Don't bother arguing with him. He's a useless trolltard.

The vast majority of other people on the forum actually know things about proper computer components.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 19 July 2010, 11:36:01
And you aren't?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 19 July 2010, 11:36:31
Quote from: EverythingIBM;203992
That's a great way to save money instead of buying gas all the time... and exercise too.
It's a win/win.

It would be cool if you could carry a 70 pound CRT on your bike though.


I'm Microsoft Windows. I love to win.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 12:18:12
Quote from: microsoft windows;204103
And you aren't?


Yeah, I am one of those people who knows things about computer hardware. Thanks for reminding me.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 15:50:13
Quote from: instantkamera;204065
I did read this whole thread. You people may know keyboards, but SOME of you def have your head up your ass when it comes to computers in general.

Most monitor manufacturers did not make all their internals. This is still the case, but really has **** all to do with the overall quality. In fact, what company DOES design, build and implemented all of the technology in a given electronic?

Yes, you can.

Since we are actually arguing LaCie monitors vs. this IBM, I can tell EverythingIBM really has no, even ENTHUSIAST, graphic/design/photo background.

Up until about 2004-5, the Sony and Mitsubishi Aperture-grille (Trinitron and Diamondtron) were really the ONLY monitors anyone bought for use as calibrated displays in the aforementioned fields. The LaCies, along with NEC CRTs, were LUSTED after (they were diamondtron based), as were Sony's "Artisan". The LaCies, as did the artisan, even packaged with their own hood and hardware calibrator (which the still do for their high-end LCDs).

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/accessories/sony-artisan.shtml

http://www.computerdisplays.co.uk/21%20inch%20monitors/lacie_BlueII_22.htm

enlighten yourself.


I actually do graphics designing w/ photography & game designing too.

This IBM G70 does have perfect colour and is extremely sharp. It IS made by IBM in the US, not china or generic parts like monitors today.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 16:48:56
Are you sure it wasn't designed in the US, assembled in China?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:04:32
Quote from: ch_123;204205
Are you sure it wasn't designed in the US, assembled in China?


Oh I can tell it's US quality. And yes, it is manufactured in the US of A. A REAL IBM product, not some cheap stuff. Don't go all huffy over my intellistations, yeah whatever they're made in china (they serve as good as modern computers go) -- but my real pride is my older IBM stuff not made in china.

Some day you'll see that the IBM 5150 is still a very good computer. I'm sure there's some way to hook up a blue ray drive if someone manufactures an ISA to SATA card.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:10:46
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204191
I actually do graphics designing w/ photography & game designing too.


So does EVERYONE else on the internet, congrats.

Quote

This IBM G70 does have perfect colour and is extremely sharp.


Those definitely sound like things that a professional digital content creator would say :rolleyes:

Colour: NOTHING has perfect colour. How are you even defining perfect colour? (Hint: "It looks good to MY eyes" is not even close to the right answer.)

Sharpness: Again, pretty subjective. You could look at the dot pitch, which is 0.28 the G70. Pretty ****ing pedestrian.
 
The 0.24 AG pitch on either the sony or Mitsu (LaCie) is not directly comparable, but would be around 0.26 ish. The improved contrast of the AG monitors though would have you perceiving greater sharpness.


Quote

It IS made by IBM in the US, not china or generic parts like monitors today.



Although Im pretty sure you are wrong, and I'd almost be willing to pay to have that POS shipped to me so I can crack it open with a bat and mail you back each generic "Chinese" component one-by-one, the fact is IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Question: who cares?
Answer: Not even IBM. They have tonnes of monitors that are better than this POS, and those all use Sony Trinitron tubes.

http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/visuals/mwbook2.pdf

1280 x 1024 at 60hz. Yeah, I bet thats wonderful on the eyes.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:14:32
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204207
Oh I can tell it's US quality. And yes, it is manufactured in the US of A. A REAL IBM product, not some cheap stuff. Don't go all huffy over my intellistations, yeah whatever they're made in china (they serve as good as modern computers go) -- but my real pride is my older IBM stuff not made in china.

Some day you'll see that the IBM 5150 is still a very good computer. I'm sure there's some way to hook up a blue ray drive if someone manufactures an ISA to SATA card.


IBM 5150 was a serious piece of kit, I've doubtlessly said this many times. By the 1990s, IBM was just making cheap ****.

Again, it's very easy to play around with "Made in" labels, there's all sorts of grey areas there.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:19:25
Quote from: instantkamera;204212
1280 x 1024 at 60hz. Yeah, I bet thats wonderful on the eyes.


I had a good long genuine LOL at that.

It hurt to get rid of my Lacies, but now that I can pick up equivalents Mitsu based CRT's for <£100, shipped... guess what I'm doing? Yup, reinforcing my desk...

"The Twins" are coming back baby...

And I might see if I can get hold of a G70 (Assuming some mad idiot has one stashed away for some obscure reason). I can then compare, review, rip to shreds, and then ceremonially kick the **** out of it, possibly ending with a nice drop down an empty liftshaft I know of, all in HD video of course.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:21:59
Quote from: instantkamera;204212
So does EVERYONE else on the internet, congrats.



Those definitely sound like things that a professional digital content creator would say :rolleyes:

Colour: NOTHING has perfect colour. How are you even defining perfect colour? (Hint: "It looks good to MY eyes" is not even close to the right answer.)

Sharpness: Again, pretty subjective. You could look at the dot pitch, which is 0.28 the G70. Pretty ****ing pedestrian.
 
The 0.24 AG pitch on either the sony or Mitsu (LaCie) is not directly comparable, but would be around 0.26 ish. The improved contrast of the AG monitors though would have you perceiving greater sharpness.





Although Im pretty sure you are wrong, and I'd almost be willing to pay to have that POS shipped to me so I can crack it open with a bat and mail you back each generic "Chinese" component one-by-one, the fact is IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Question: who cares?
Answer: Not even IBM. They have tonnes of monitors that are better than this POS, and those all use Sony Trinitron tubes.

http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/visuals/mwbook2.pdf

1280 x 1024 at 60hz. Yeah, I bet thats wonderful on the eyes.

I don't run it at 1280 x 1024, are you bonkers? I run it in 640x480.

It actually is flicker-free even in 60Hz (and does support higher refresh rates, but I don't like them). If you read, it has flicker-free technology. Unlike the newer cheap chinese CRTs made today (other typical CRTs I can't stand at 60Hz, it's like an eye seizure).

I'd never ship you my G70, it's 47 pounds, it uses the same screws as in a Model M (plus the whole thing is surrounded in metal lining, good luck getting that open). And finally, I want to be able to use it... no one is breaking it.

I meant graphics designing as an actual job... but whatever. And no, most graphics people do on the internet is laughable.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:25:11
I wonder if it has the same plastic rivets that Model Ms do too.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 17:31:53
Quote from: ch_123;204220
I wonder if it has the same plastic rivets that Model Ms do too.


Funny you should mention it, the 300PL does have plastic rivets if anyone bothered to compare IBM products. You can even see that they were melted on. Although the PC 300 rivets are a lot more sturdy, and none of them broke off on any of the cases I've used.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:01:48
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204218
I don't run it at 1280 x 1024, are you bonkers? I run it in 640x480.

...

I meant graphics designing as an actual job... but whatever. And no, most graphics people do on the internet is laughable.


I bet you manage to get tonnes done in that giant 640x480 workspace, do you use a 4x6 inch drafting table too??

Quote

It actually is flicker-free even in 60Hz (and does support higher refresh rates, but I don't like them). If you read, it has flicker-free technology.


I did read: http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/visuals/mwbook2.pdf

indicates that the higher mdel G7x have flicker-free, but not the g70/g70t.
In fact, this "flicker-free" they refer to:

Quote
Max 85Hz flicker free mode 1280x1024


it's just a preset res/refresh that WONT FLICKER (not some technology on top of a 60hz refresh that magically looks great).

Quote

 Unlike the newer cheap chinese CRTs made today (other typical CRTs I can't stand at 60Hz, it's like an eye seizure).


You are the only one who gives two ****s about Chinese. I simply stated your CRT is a modest performer compared to some sony Trinitron and Mitsubishi Diamondtron screen, both of which are NOT Chinese.

Quote

I'd never ship you my G70, it's 47 pounds, it uses the same screws as in a Model M (plus the whole thing is surrounded in metal lining, good luck getting that open). And finally, I want to be able to use it... no one is breaking it.


That really IS ok with me. Not a single person in the world, including the dude who gave that paperweight, wants a damn thing to do with it.

G series = SUPER VGA COLOR (General Purpose)

Quote

 IBM G Series General CRT Monitors provide
perfect balance of price and performance


In other words, NOT the best. FACT.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:20:10
60Hz flicker free lol, good times.  I was wondering exactly what he was talking about but didn't care enough to look it up myself.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:21:01
Quote from: instantkamera;204232
I bet you manage to get tonnes done in that giant 640x480 workspace, do you use a 4x6 inch drafting table too??

I did read: http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/visuals/mwbook2.pdf

indicates that the higher mdel G7x have flicker-free, but not the g70/g70t.
In fact, this "flicker-free" they refer to:

it's just a preset res/refresh that WONT FLICKER (not some technology on top of a 60hz refresh that magically looks great).

You are the only one who gives two ****s about Chinese. I simply stated your CRT is a modest performer compared to some sony Trinitron and Mitsubishi Diamondtron screen, both of which are NOT Chinese.

That really IS ok with me. Not a single person in the world, including the dude who gave that paperweight, wants a damn thing to do with it.

G series = SUPER VGA COLOR (General Purpose)

In other words, NOT the best. FACT.


Incorrect, the G70s are flicker free:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/SBJR-3XNK6F.html (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/SBJR-3XNK6F.html)
You're reading the wrong thing buddy, the max resolution is 1024x768 (and is supported with flicker free on that).

The PDF states 85hz WITH flicker free, not one and the same. It's a different flicker-free technology (I think interpolation?)

Flicker-free using Hz requires a minimum of 100, not 85 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker-free).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:25:50
most people would think 75Hz is flicker free meaning it doesn't blind you like 60Hz does.  That wiki link has 0 to do with CRTs as well, just talking about that new 120Hz LCD stuff.

Interpolation is what you use to make images a higher resolution.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:28:02
I don't see any flicker on my 60Hz screens. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that the human eye can't take in that many distinct images in one second anyway...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:32:31
I noticed flicker on my old 20" LCD monitor (probably because I sat closer to it than my new 24"). It was especially visible when viewing a grey screen.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:33:08
Could be the backlight failing
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:35:39
Quote from: ch_123;204251
I don't see any flicker on my 60Hz screens. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that the human eye can't take in that many distinct images in one second anyway...


I see flickering on some 60Hz CRTs, particularly compaq & HP ones. Even the C170s have a bit of a weird flicker when at 65Hz, so I keep them at 85.

But the G70 looks flicker free to me at 60Hz. I even asked multiple people if they seen any flickering, they said no.

Man, the G70 cost $679 back then. The black version cost $719. Interestingly enough, it has some features that other ones don't in the G category. It's the only one with "double focus adjustment", as well as "autoborderless" whatever that is.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:37:48
Quote from: gr1m;204253
I noticed flicker on my old 20" LCD monitor (probably because I sat closer to it than my new 24"). It was especially visible when viewing a grey screen.


That weird crazy flickering pattern on LCDs when viewing greys (especially dark greys) is usually normal for most (the only one that doesn't seem to do it is my thinkpad LCD). The cheap HP/LG LCDs at our school did that so horribly, and they were brand new. All of them are still working I should note... just damn painful and horrible to look at.

It's something else and not an aging backlight.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:41:08
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204244
Incorrect, the G70s are flicker free:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/SBJR-3XNK6F.html (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/SBJR-3XNK6F.html)
You're reading the wrong thing buddy, the max resolution is 1024x768 (and is supported with flicker free on that).


I guess IBM, among other ****ty things they make, has inconsistent documentation.

But let's actually read the page you provided:

Quote
Maximum resolution x colors   1280x1024x16M

Quote
Flicker-Free   Yes, up to 1024x768

Quote
Refresh Rate (Vertical Scan)(Range from 50-105 Hz NI)
selected examples:

...

60Hz - 1280x1024 (Non-Interlaced)


So 1024x768 is NOT the max res, it's just the highest res at which you won't be running at 60hz max.

Quote

The PDF states 85hz WITH flicker free, not one and the same. It's a different flicker-free technology (I think interpolation?)



No, it doesn't, don't re-phrase for your benefit.

"Max 85Hz flicker free mode 1280x1024"

In other words, 85hz ensures flicker-free (this is commonly accepted knowledge), and that can only be achieved at resolutions up to X.

Interpolation has nothing to do with this, you may be talking about INTERLACING, which is actually WORSE (notice how all the supported resolutions are NON-interlaced).

Quote

Flicker-free using Hz requires a minimum of 100, not 85 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker-free).


That link doesn't talk AT all about computer monitors, but DOES re-enforce what I am saying. Flickr-free is achieved by increasing the refresh rate. Period.

Try again?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:43:55
So wait, CRT monitors could support resolutions that they couldnt operate at flicker free?

That explains a lot of things to me involving an old SGI CRT monitor I had the misfortune of using...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:47:20
Quote from: ch_123;204263
So wait, CRT monitors could support resolutions that they couldnt operate at flicker free?

That explains a lot of things to me involving an old SGI CRT monitor I had the misfortune of using...


The problem is that "flicker" is subjective. 60hz is just generally agreed upon as the bare minimum tolerable refresh. This will change based on the viewer and the screen size, thus it is favourable to have support for higher refresh rates at ALL supported resolution, even if this was not the case. I couldnt ever operate a computer screen in 60hz.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:48:33
If you are viewing motion 60Hz isn't bad and even 30Hz is fine (this is what my TV does 1080P at) but viewing static screens it is brutal.

And generally speaking if a monitor supports higher than 60Hz you can also run it down to 60Hz if you wish...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:52:12
Quote from: instantkamera;204265
The problem is that "flicker" is subjective. 60hz is just generally agreed upon as the bare minimum tolerable refresh. This will change based on the viewer and the screen size, thus it is favourable to have support for higher refresh rates at ALL supported resolution, even if this was not the case. I couldnt ever operate a computer screen in 60hz.


This screen, a 20" granite SGI CRT was set up on a computer over VGA, operating at 1600x1200. At that res, the flickers were practically headache inducing, so it had to be set down to 1280x1024. We replaced the VGA cable, and the flickers went, but the res maxed out at 1280x1024 or thereabouts.

At the time I didn't understand it at all. But that flicker free resolution range thing explains it all. After all, the Indy it was designed to be hooked up to could only operate at 1280x1024. Maybe higher resolutions were supported over the monitors 13W3 connector, but over VGA, it just couldn't hack it.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 18:54:38
Quote from: D-EJ915;204249
most people would think 75Hz is flicker free meaning it doesn't blind you like 60Hz does.  That wiki link has 0 to do with CRTs as well, just talking about that new 120Hz LCD stuff.

Interpolation is what you use to make images a higher resolution.


Actually the wiki is referring to television standards, specifically PAL and SECAM.

Their content is interlaced (which I believe is the INTERPOLATION EIBM foolishly mentioned) 25FPS becomes 50 Fields per second (NTSC spec is 30FPS -> 60 Fields ... somewhat less flickery than PAL). So they wanted to create a smoother looking display on CRTs, by having more FIELDS drawn in the same time frame.

But you are right, nothing to do with the CRT monitors we are using, except that the principle of reducing flicker is to increase refresh rate.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:28:48
Quote from: instantkamera;204265
The problem is that "flicker" is subjective. 60hz is just generally agreed upon as the bare minimum tolerable refresh. This will change based on the viewer and the screen size, thus it is favourable to have support for higher refresh rates at ALL supported resolution, even if this was not the case. I couldnt ever operate a computer screen in 60hz.


It gets more interesting. The subjective flicker can change depending on the level of fatigue of the viewer. Your brain is responsible for fusing the flashed images together into a smooth picture. The more tired you are, the harder it gets for your brain to fuse the images together.

You might be fine at 60Hz when you're fresh, but after a few hours, you might be noticing fatigue, more flicker, or even headaches as ch_123 brought up.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 19 July 2010, 19:41:26
Quote from: hyperlinked;204276
You might be fine at 60Hz when you're fresh, but after a few hours, you might be noticing fatigue, more flicker, or even headaches as ch_123 brought up.


Indeed. I notice this. I notice flicker at higher frequencies than most, but I have really weird eyes. I can usually deal with 75hz, but when tired, I can see the flicker, especially in my peripheral vision. At that point, I have to stop using it, or bump up to 85hz.

That said, it's been a long time since I used a CRT with problems running decent resolutions at 85hz or over.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:05:01
Quote from: hyperlinked;204276
It gets more interesting. The subjective flicker can change depending on the level of fatigue of the viewer. Your brain is responsible for fusing the flashed images together into a smooth picture. The more tired you are, the harder it gets for your brain to fuse the images together.

You might be fine at 60Hz when you're fresh, but after a few hours, you might be noticing fatigue, more flicker, or even headaches as ch_123 brought up.


I play games on my stupid CRTs at 60hz all night long and I never notice any flickering.

Either I'm used to 60hz, this is a flicker free monitor, or everyone else has a bad visual IQ.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:05:11
Quote from: kishy;204282
DO IT!

But please, no HD video, or it'll take me 4 hours to buffer it...


I'll get the keys for the liftshaft ready... One of my friends* has answered my rather unusual request, and I'll end by quoting him:-

"I've got one. Why do you want a piece of **** monitor... thought you had the LaCie's anyway?"

He laughed a lot when I told him about this thread, and is looking forward to the video... ;-)

*He is, by the way, the aforementioned Graphic Designer, responsible for purchasing these things initially. He still insists they will stand up to anything LCD-wise under £1000. Warranty was the sole reason they changed them out for what I think are S-IPS based LCD's.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:10:04
Quote from: kishy;204282
DO IT!

But please, no HD video, or it'll take me 4 hours to buffer it...

I've never seen any IBM G70s around myself except this rare gem I was lucky to pick up.

The closest I can find is the P201 for sale by recycled goods:
(http://cgi.ebay.ca/IBM-6555-8E3-P201-20-CRT-Monitor-15-Pin-SVGA-Black-/150466213352?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item23087c35e8) (http://www.recycledgoods.com/zoom.aspx?productID=34036)

Probably better than those sun monitors too. Better looking case too.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:13:43
Quote from: InSanCen;204280
Indeed. I notice this. I notice flicker at higher frequencies than most, but I have really weird eyes. I can usually deal with 75hz, but when tired, I can see the flicker, especially in my peripheral vision. At that point, I have to stop using it, or bump up to 85hz.


I have the same sensitivity to low refresh rates. A 60Hz CRT refresh rate for a few hours will literally make my eyes feel like they've been punched. Low refresh rates were really bad for my productivity. I always made sure to spend some extra money for the nicer monitors.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:15:33
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204292
I play games on my stupid CRTs at 60hz all night long and I never notice any flickering.

Either I'm used to 60hz, this is a flicker free monitor, or everyone else has a bad visual IQ.


Irony, you has it.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:15:38
Quote from: InSanCen;204293
I'll get the keys for the liftshaft ready... One of my friends* has answered my rather unusual request, and I'll end by quoting him:-

"I've got one. Why do you want a piece of **** monitor... thought you had the LaCie's anyway?"

He laughed a lot when I told him about this thread, and is looking forward to the video... ;-)

*He is, by the way, the aforementioned Graphic Designer, responsible for purchasing these things initially. He still insists they will stand up to anything LCD-wise under £1000. Warranty was the sole reason they changed them out for what I think are S-IPS based LCD's.


It's not a piece of **** monitor. It'll last longer than any lacie junk.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:16:33
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204305
It's not a piece of **** monitor. It'll last longer than any lacie junk.


Yes, it is, and no it wont.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:17:24
And for the environmentally conscious of you out there, I'll be sure to recycle what's left of it after I scrape it out of the lift shaft...:thumb:

Must remember to bring a dustpan and brush.

Just a quick comparison, for anyone wanting to figure the odds...

IBM G70 (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/SBJR-3XNK6F.html)

Electron Blue II 22" (http://www.computerdisplays.co.uk/21%20inch%20monitors/lacie_BlueII_22.htm)
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:18:39
Quote from: instantkamera;204304
Irony, you has it.


No, my visual IQ and coordination is very well versed. I just don't get fatigued over CRTs... a lot of LCD backlights hurt my eyes though.

And it's "you have it", not "you has it," unless that was a deliberate colloquial effect, or English isn't your native language.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:20:15
Quote from: InSanCen;204308
And for the environmentally conscious of you out there, I'll be sure to recycle what's left of it after I scrape it out of the lift shaft...:thumb:

Must remember to bring a dustpan and brush.


Who cares, EIBM will be offsetting your carbon footprint by running this power hungry piece of **** till it rots his eyes out or explodes in his face.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:24:02
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204292
or everyone else has a bad visual IQ.


Let me a tell you a story about a guy named Bob.

One day, Bob was driving home on the freeway while his wife was at home watching TV and waiting for Bob to arrive. All of a sudden, she saw a news report that there was an alleged maniac on the freeway driving in the wrong direction. She's worried that Bob might get hurt and calls him on his cellphone. Bob answers the cellphone and his wife says, "Bob, sweetie, be careful, apparently there's a maniac driving in the wrong direction on the freeway!"

Bod replies, "Honey, they're ALL driving in the wrong direction!"
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:27:12
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204310
English isn't your native language.


So you don't understand me? That's why you have chosen to ignore all arguments backed by fact in favour of changing the subject and blind zealotry.

TABARNAK!
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:28:28
Quote from: instantkamera;204313
Who cares, EIBM will be offsetting your carbon footprint by running this power hungry piece of **** till it rots his eyes out or explodes in his face.


Made my day... thanking you muchly for that!
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:28:55
Quote from: gr1m;204314
let me a tell you a story about a guy named bob.

One day, bob was driving home on the freeway while his wife was at home watching tv and waiting for bob to arrive. All of a sudden, she saw a news report that there was an alleged maniac on the freeway driving in the wrong direction. She's worried that bob might get hurt and calls him on his cellphone. Bob answers the cellphone and his wife says, "bob, sweetie, be careful, apparently there's a maniac driving in the wrong direction on the freeway!"

bod replies, "honey, they're all driving in the wrong direction!"

rawfullmajo
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:35:48
My stupid filter is on so I don't see EIBM's messages, but since everyone's quoting him, I'll begrudgingly lend a little credence to what he's saying. It's possible for one person to notice nothing wrong with a CRT image and another person staring at the same image to be so bothered by it that he can't look at it. The flicker rate is the same for both, but your physiology affects how you perceive the screen's image.

It doesn't mean that 60Hz is good enough for him though. It means he can tolerate it just fine, but even when you don't see the flicker, your brain is working harder to fuse the images so everyone will eventually fatigue and see some flicker or at least have to stop from fatiguing. If you work fine under 60Hz, you can work fine for longer under 75Hz and so forth.

Another interesting experiment in the dumb flicker tricks category is to stare at a fluorescent light bulb when you're well rested and then stare at it after you've been up without sleep for 24 hours. You might be able to spot some flicker you couldn't see before or it'll be much more pronounced. This is for the same reason you're more likely to see CRT flicker when you're tired.

Flicker is "noise" and your brain can filter it out, but it takes energy to do so. If you're smart, you divert your energy toward more productive things than filtering out noise.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:37:17
Quote from: instantkamera;204313
Who cares, EIBM will be offsetting your carbon footprint by running this power hungry piece of **** till it rots his eyes out or explodes in his face.


I never had any issues with my IBM stuff, it'll keep working just fine.

Quote from: instantkamera;204318
So you don't understand me? That's why you have chosen to ignore all arguments backed by fact in favour of changing the subject and blind zealotry.


Technically a person who is a zealot goes insane and angry. Or in some cases, feels to inflict physical damage to something they don't like -- such as G70 CRTs. I'll say one thing: it'll be one hard monitor to break. It's not made cheaply, nor is it poor quality. And I think they can actually support 120Hz.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:38:29
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204329
It's not made cheaply, nor is it poor quality.


cause it ain't made in China!
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:47:54
Quote from: hyperlinked;204302
I have the same sensitivity to low refresh rates. A 60Hz CRT refresh rate for a few hours will literally make my eyes feel like they've been punched. Low refresh rates were really bad for my productivity. I always made sure to spend some extra money for the nicer monitors.


You can get just about any monitor to run at 60Hz with little noticeable flickering. With old monitors, I turn down the contrast a bit and it makes a big difference in the flickering. Try it next time you're using a flickery CRT.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 20:52:44
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204329
I never had any issues with my IBM stuff, it'll keep working just fine.


Technically a person who is a zealot goes insane and angry. Or in some cases, feels to inflict physical damage to something they don't like -- such as G70 CRTs. I'll say one thing: it'll be one hard monitor to break. It's not made cheaply, nor is it poor quality. And I think they can actually support 120Hz.


Technically:

Quote
zeal·ot  (zlt)
n.
1.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.


and:
Quote

zealous [ˈzɛləs]
adj
filled with or inspired by intense enthusiasm or zeal; ardent; fervent


and:

Quote
zeal  (zl)
n.
Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance. See Synonyms at passion.


No mention of insanity or anger. Sorry to have proven you wrong. It being your language and all, I would have thought you had a much firmer grasp on it's usage.

Now then. You continue to use what ever you damn well please, I really don't care. The thing is, you can dream up all kinds of reasons why you want/continue to use a given product, but the best, and SAFEST reason is because YOU want to. See, this way you avoid coming off as a dolt, and other people don't feel the need to shield the rest of the internet from nonsense.

Subjective statements are fine, because they can always be backed by any argument you want. The minute you start presenting them as fact, you had better be prepared to back that **** up.

Now go forth ... and ... **** it, continue to wreak havoc. It really is the best bang for our internet-entertainment buck.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:01:59
Quote from: kishy;204335
Thanks, actually, I was going to reply saying that as much as I'd enjoy to see it oblitered I couldn't enjoy it knowing it may be placed in a trash bin rather than sent to the appropriate place...

Ultimately it's one monitor out of however many people set on top of hills for target practice with, but if everyone has the "only one" mentality then it's a whole bunch more than "only one" which isn't so good.

I have a G70 available to me locally at the same place as a high school auto shop 'shop car' Cutlass Supreme like so:

I wonder...can I combine these two elements for great win?


You should really try the monitor out rather than accuse me and say it's bad. It most certainly isn't. All the people I asked said they couldn't see flickering on it.

I think webwit had a lot of sense now.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:03:41
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204329
I never had any issues with my IBM stuff, it'll keep working just fine.



Technically a person who is a zealot goes insane and angry. Or in some cases, feels to inflict physical damage to something they don't like -- such as G70 CRTs. I'll say one thing: it'll be one hard monitor to break. It's not made cheaply, nor is it poor quality. And I think they can actually support 120Hz.


Do you know what resolutions it can support 120Hz at?

But that does sound like a pretty good monitor, hearing that it cost over $600. I've got a Gateway2000-branded Trinitron tube from 1996 which can handle pretty good refresh rates. The monitor itself is kind of ugly and beat-up, but it displays a pretty good quality image.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:11:10
You got to realize that these monitors are old. When things get old, some are in better shape than others. I think EverythingIBM turned out to be lucky and got one in good shape. I know I had a Dell-branded Trinitron from 1997 that was plain awful. But I traded it for a Gateway2000-branded Trinitron from '96 and the Gateway one is much better. They both are basically the same monitor, but the Dell one was the "sucky" one. You might be in a similar situation. Just because that old Dell one stunk didn't mean all the old Trinitrons stunk.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: hyperlinked on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:13:45
Quote from: kishy;204335
I couldn't enjoy it knowing it may be placed in a trash bin rather than sent to the appropriate place...


I know. What an awful way to disgrace a trash bin.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:20:50
Quote from: instantkamera;204339
Technically:
No mention of insanity or anger. Sorry to have proven you wrong. It being your language and all, I would have thought you had a much firmer grasp on it's usage.


You mean ITS usage, "it's" stands for "it is," when you say "it is usage," it sounds very odd.

Being a zealot does constitute insanity -- to the point of becoming in a religious state and bloodthirsty for a cause. What I said was correct, you're just trying to find my exact synonyms.

Here's the entrances for "zealot" under Webster's 1828 dictionary:
Quote
zealot

ZEALOT, n. Zelot. One who engages warmly in any cause, and pursues his object with earnestness and ardor. It is generally used in dispraise, or applied to one whose ardor in intemperate and censurable. The fury of zealots was one cause of the destruction of Jerusalem.


Quote from: microsoft windows;204344
Do you know what resolutions it can support 120Hz at?

But that does sound like a pretty good monitor, hearing that it cost over $600. I've got a Gateway2000-branded Trinitron tube from 1996 which can handle pretty good refresh rates. The monitor itself is kind of ugly and beat-up, but it displays a pretty good quality image.


Probably 1280x1024 maximum if it's possible. Win98 doesn't give me the listing for 120hz though (it just gives me the same generic list for any CRT).

Quote from: kishy;204345
Webwit, with all due respect, would have smacked you around this place so hard with his e-penis it would have genuinely not been funny by the time he was done. Your IBM fanboyism is maddening. We all have preferences and sometimes our preferences are for inferior things...the difference is others are willing to admit they prefer inferior things whereas you say "LOL IBM IS DA BEST DOOD" which is rather irritating.

I built the computer the G70 is currently on and spent hours behind (in front of?) that thing playing with configuration options trying to get it to stop sucking. It just didn't wanna play nice so I left it there at 1024x768x32 at 70Hz.


To webwit I was more of a neutral entity.
I could say people gorging themselves with modern technology is maddening too... ipads... ipods... dells... macs... hps... consumerism chaos.

When you say to make it "stop sucking" that's so generic. I easily configured mine the way I wanted. It's almost effortless with all the digital buttons at the bottom. No time wasted flipping through menus. The only thing I haven't been able to do is force windows 98 to show 120Hz, I think it could be the graphics card though.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:41:23
Quote from: kishy;204362


120Hz would require a decent graphics card and appropriate monitor driver.


I'll try hooking it up to a win7 computer and trying it out later some day... 120Hz is impressive for an older monitor. Seems kind of useless seeing as most computers in 1995 couldn't even support that (unless IBM was waiting for people in 2010 to run it in 120Hz).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:44:36
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204358
You mean ITS usage, "it's" stands for "it is," when you say "it is usage," it sounds very odd.
I sit corrected, a mere typo, I assure you.

Quote
Being a zealot does constitute insanity -- to the point of becoming in a religious state and bloodthirsty for a cause. What I said was correct, you're just trying to find my exact synonyms.
...
Then you SHOULD have said:

Quote
Technically a person who is a zealot [can become] insane and angry.

As, while those behaviours ARE attributable to zealousness, they are by no means implied.

Quote
Probably 1280x1024 maximum if it's possible. Win98 doesn't give me the listing for 120hz though (it just gives me the same generic list for any CRT).

I thought you said 1024x768 was the MAX res for this monitor?

Quote
I could say people gorging themselves with modern technology is maddening too... ipads... ipods... dells... macs... hps... consumerism chaos.

For once I might agree with you.

Quote
When you say to make it "stop sucking" that's so generic. I easily configured mine the way I wanted. It's almost effortless with all the digital buttons at the bottom. No time wasted flipping through menus. The only thing I haven't been able to do is force windows 98 to show 120Hz, I think it could be the graphics card though.

Clearly you have lower visual standards than the rest of us...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 21:54:46
Quote from: instantkamera;204366
I thought you said 1024x768 was the MAX res for this monitor?
Clearly you have lower visual standards than the rest of us...

Lenovo's wonderful butchered web listing was confusing me, I did have it running in 1280x1024 on my thinkpad -- I just thought maybe somehow I was wrong. And yeah it does 120Hz:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11789&stc=1&d=1279594426)

There was no distortion either, I think the video drivers on my 300PL were just whacked (that or the S3 integrated gfx card). I never installed half of the stuff correctly because I was too lazy and am going to get a better one with a pentium 1 processor.

But to be honest, 120Hz and 60Hz look exactly the same to me.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:16:04
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204368
Lenovo's wonderful butchered web listing was confusing me, I did have it running in 1280x1024 on my thinkpad -- I just thought maybe somehow I was wrong. And yeah it does 120Hz:
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11789&stc=1&d=1279594426)


There was no distortion either, I think the video drivers on my 300PL were just whacked (that or the S3 integrated gfx card). I never installed half of the stuff correctly because I was too lazy and am going to get a better one with a pentium 1 processor.

But to be honest, 120Hz and 60Hz look exactly the same to me.


120Hz at what res? certainly not the aforementioned 1280x1024...
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:32:00
Quote from: instantkamera;204373
120Hz at what res? certainly not the aforementioned 1280x1024...

Yep it does 1280x1024 at 120hz, here's a screenshot:
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11790&stc=1&d=1279596684)

Impressive... I myself didn't think it was capable of it.

EDIT: I should add that it also displays support for well past 120Hz... but heh, I don't want to break it. It's going to stay running in 60Hz at 640x480 for the rest of its existence.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:38:51
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204376
Yep it does 1280x1024 at 120hz, here's a screenshot:
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=11790&stc=1&d=1279596684)


Impressive... I myself didn't think it was capable of it.

EDIT: I should add that it also displays support for well past 120Hz... but heh, I don't want to break it. It's going to stay running in 60Hz at 640x480 for the rest of its existence.

Guaranteed that monitor is not being driven at that spec, regardless of what winders says.

Is there an OSD or any other way of seeing, on the monitor itself, what signal is fed?

I suppose it isn't impossible, but it is highly unlikely.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:43:07
Quote from: instantkamera;204377
Guaranteed that monitor is not being driven at that spec, regardless of what winders says.

Is there an OSD or any other way of seeing, on the monitor itself, what signal is fed?

I suppose it isn't impossible, but it is highly unlikely.


Yes it is running at 120Hz in 1280x1024. If you have so many questions and doubts, go get yourself a G70. Otherwise I don't care, I have the thing in front of me and witnessed that it's a very nice prime monitor...
It has no OSD whatsoever, it's completely digital. It does have a colour diagnostic screen when unplugged however.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:52:38
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204378
Yes it is running at 120Hz in 1280x1024. If you have so many questions and doubts, go get yourself a G70. Otherwise I don't care, I have the thing in front of me and witnessed that it's a very nice prime monitor...
It has no OSD whatsoever, it's completely digital. It does have a colour diagnostic screen when unplugged however.


Yeah I probably wont do that.

If it IS really RUNNING at that spec (a big if), then that ONE plus for a monitor that STILL isn't the best in the world, as you have clearly stated it to be.

I think it's great how you have ignored all previous comments containing proof of that fact. Are you even connected to the rest of the internet, or does your DNS server just round-robin between the IBM site and GH?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:56:17
EIBM's role model:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/etc/pos/1175747356512.jpg)
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 22:57:30
Quote from: D-EJ915;204382
EIBM's role model:

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/etc/pos/1175747356512.jpg)


Clearly not g70s. Clearly NOT achieving desired liftoff.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:00:39
Quote from: kishy;204379
'Digital' could and would in most cases include an OSD, but that's beside the point.

truf.

Quote

The graphics card will do what the driver tells it. As much as I hate to say this, if the monitor couldn't handle 120Hz, it would be displaying a mess of garbage...


Yes, but the monitor doesn't need to comply. However, anything is possible, and like I said, that would be a plus in my books.

Either way, still fairly generic ****.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:02:00
Quote from: instantkamera;204380
Yeah I probably wont do that.

If it IS really RUNNING at that spec (a big if), then that ONE plus for a monitor that STILL isn't the best in the world, as you have clearly stated it to be.

I think it's great how you have ignored all previous comments containing proof of that fact. Are you even connected to the rest of the internet, or does your DNS server just round-robin between the IBM site and GH?


It's not a big if... it does run in that. Otherwise it wouldn't reset the tube each time when changing the Hz.

And it certainly was one of the best CRTs for 1995. I'm sure it's better than most CRTs even made today; I like seeing my old equipment surpassing new cheap consumer junk.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:05:09
Quote from: instantkamera;204385
truf.

Yes, but the monitor doesn't need to comply. However, anything is possible, and like I said, that would be a plus in my books.

Either way, still fairly generic ****.


Generic? It has so many features not even found in most CRTs... if you actually analyzed it.

Quote from: instantkamera;204384
Clearly not g70s. Clearly NOT achieving desired liftoff.


I wasn't proclaiming the G70 to be *THE* one and only CRT -- I was simply stating the joy I had when discovering how nice this one was, for free too. I have C170 CRTs and an L190 LCD which I really really like. My favourite LCD too (weighs 20 pounds and metal plated).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:10:25
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204388
Generic? It has so many features not even found in most CRTs... if you actually analyzed it.


I did, it doesn't.


Quote
I wasn't proclaiming the G70 to be *THE* one and only CRT -- I was simply stating the joy I had when discovering how nice this one was, for free too. I have C170 CRTs and an L190 LCD which I really really like. My favourite LCD too (weighs 20 pounds and metal plated).

Well you did actually state that the colour was perfect, and that one could not find better, but I'll give you the second part.

Enjoy it, you poor bastard. At least you get to have a laugh at all those PC users out there spending hard earned dollars for new **** (trust me, we're laughing back at you).
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:23:11
Quote from: instantkamera;204392
I did, it doesn't.

Well you did actually state that the colour was perfect, and that one could not find better, but I'll give you the second part.

Enjoy it, you poor bastard. At least you get to have a laugh at all those PC users out there spending hard earned dollars for new **** (trust me, we're laughing back at you).


I did buy a new CRT... cost about $200. The tube got dead pixels, when changing brightness it would shift. The picture is also very blurry.
I gave it away. Cheap chinese junk.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: gr1m on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:25:22
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204396
I did buy a new CRT... cost about $200. The tube got dead pixels, when changing brightness it would shift. The picture is also very blurry.
I gave it away. Cheap chinese junk.


Buying 1996 hardware new in 2010 = bad idea.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: EverythingIBM on Mon, 19 July 2010, 23:30:31
Quote from: gr1m;204397
Buying 1996 hardware new in 2010 = bad idea.

lol I got some mag innovision that looked like this (it's the only stock photo I could find, but unfortunately has a lascivious woman):
(http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/771FSS.jpg)

Got it from bestbuy in 2006 or 2007.

It's utter crap. Yeah, I think that stock image was the only well they could sell any.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Tue, 20 July 2010, 03:43:19
Well, it's official. I am getting a new set of "Twins" once my next Bonus cheque arrives (Being a recession and all, It's kinda unpredictable). I've got a couple reserved for me. That being said, I suspect the "twins" from EIBM's stock photo would be more fun, I wonder if they have analogue knobs for adjustment?
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: ch_123 on Tue, 20 July 2010, 04:05:24
Quote from: D-EJ915;204382
EIBM's role model:

Show Image
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/etc/pos/1175747356512.jpg)


At least the CRTs might fall down and crush the guy. Then again, they could well bounce off his considerable belly.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 20 July 2010, 06:36:30
That looks more like my computer setup.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: instantkamera on Tue, 20 July 2010, 07:28:32
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204396
The tube got dead pixels


And a good morning to you, sir.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 20 July 2010, 08:28:55
Quote from: EverythingIBM;204398
lol I got some mag innovision that looked like this (it's the only stock photo I could find, but unfortunately has a lascivious woman):
Show Image
(http://salestores.com/stores/images/images_747/771FSS.jpg)


Got it from bestbuy in 2006 or 2007.

It's utter crap. Yeah, I think that stock image was the only well they could sell any.

I oughta do something. I'll change my avatar to a photo of an attractive woman and see how many hundred more visits my profile page will get.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: InSanCen on Tue, 20 July 2010, 11:54:23
Quote from: microsoft windows;204488
I oughta do something. I'll change my avatar to a photo of an attractive women and see how many hundred more visits my profile page will get.


I suggest Jenna Jameson. If you're not familiar, Google will work wonders.
Title: IBM G70 CRT (my analysis)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 20 July 2010, 17:05:26
Quote from: instantkamera;204479
And a good morning to you, sir.


:rofl: