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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: typo on Mon, 03 August 2020, 00:54:37
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Some of their boards say made in Taiwan. Clearly made in China. Is this legal in the US?
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It depends...
If you want to anger China, they are independent, if you want to please China, they are part of China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
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Oh, I get it Leslie! That is very keen! So that is how they get away with it.
BTW, This is not Todd. I just had this one question. Keyboards are not my thing. He passed away. I am his Adult Grandson.
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It depends...
If you want to anger China, they are independent, if you want to please China, they are part of China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
Make sense
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Oh, I get it Leslie! That is very keen! So that is how they get away with it.
BTW, This is not Todd. I just had this one question. Keyboards are not my thing. He passed away. I am his Adult Grandson.
Sorry to hear about your grandfather and thanks for letting us know.
BTW, I posted a comment in a thread (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107399.0) from a bit back where people were wondering.
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Some of their boards say made in Taiwan. Clearly made in China.
So, is this to say that physical objects actually fabricated in PRC somehow find their way to ROC and get labelled as coming from ROC when sent to the US?
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So, is this to say that physical objects actually fabricated in PRC somehow find their way to ROC and get labelled as coming from ROC when sent to the US?
Most likely it depends on when it was made and the politics at the time.
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Oh, I get it Leslie! That is very keen! So that is how they get away with it.
BTW, This is not Todd. I just had this one question. Keyboards are not my thing. He passed away. I am his Adult Grandson.
):
Im sorry for the loss
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It depends...
If you want to anger China, they are independent, if you want to please China, they are part of China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
What?
If it says it is made in Taiwan, it is made in Taiwan. Taiwan is not a part of China. No one in Taiwan labels their goods made in China.
Sorry to hear about typo...it is always sad when we lose a member.
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What I'd like to know is how someone would know that a product is "clearly made in China" if the box says it's made in Taiwan. It's not like you can just tell from looking a product where it's made.
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It depends...
If you want to anger China, they are independent, if you want to please China, they are part of China.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
What?
If it says it is made in Taiwan, it is made in Taiwan. Taiwan is not a part of China. No one in Taiwan labels their goods made in China.
Sorry to hear about typo...it is always sad when we lose a member.
How often is it that anybody learns of such things? I imagine a lot more users on here pass and vanish without a mention than it is ever noticed.
What I'd like to know is how someone would know that a product is "clearly made in China" if the box says it's made in Taiwan. It's not like you can just tell from looking a product where it's made.
He might have been going off of quick google searches on the company.
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Taiwan is not a part of China.
China doesn't think so.
That's why I posted the link, it's not something you're going to solve in this thread.
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Taiwan is not a part of China.
China doesn't think so.
That's why I posted the link, it's not something you're going to solve in this thread.
Simply, goods made in Taiwan are labeled as such.
There is no confusion or interpretation as it might be as far as their status as an independent country.
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How often is it that anybody learns of such things? I imagine a lot more users on here pass and vanish without a mention than it is ever noticed.
An early casualty was Blaise170. I realize now that it was not discussed here, but it was on Deskthority.
He was a nice guy, we bought and sold a few pieces from each other. He was a big strong guy, a recent college graduate, not who you would expect to go.
https://www.facebook.com/blaise170 (https://www.facebook.com/blaise170)
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Geopolitical quandaries aside, I've got a mf108v3 and it is solid as heck.
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It is honestly probably the best board stock under $250 that there is. Unless you want Topre. On that note everyone expected my poor Grandfather to stop suffering. Smallfry not so much. That was not a fluke either. Up here in farm country it happens on average every other month. I have no clue why the speed limit is 65 on a one lane dirt road completely unstable. With tractors all over. I also have no clue why the speed limit is 80 on the highway in parts of rural Wisconsin. Speed kills. I have a very fast car and I will not brag but I go under the speed limit. Than toss back a few beers which almost everyone does up here and all bets are off.
Back on topic, IKBC is a Chinese company and all the parts are made in China per chat with them. Only the MF line is assembled in Taiwan. It hardly matters. Do you think it is Germany that you are getting? Still, it is very impressive for what it is. I have a prototype of it that is on steroids. It was a review pass around. It weighs a ton and everything on it is 50x better than the production unit. The production board is no slouch at all though. Nonetheless I use a board that is much better still. Please let's not fight though. This stuff came from a man that devoted over half a century to this hobby. I honestly know very little about it. I just took the best board and use it. I do not have a great interest in this. Fleeting, perhaps.
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Taiwan, formerly the island of Formosa, is claimed by China as part of China. It is sort of a free economic zone. Like Hong Kong. That is also part of China, but is much less restricted in how you do business there. So, China has also forced all major airlines to refer to Taiwan as part of China.
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My main board I use at home is a modded iKBC Poker II (Type C), and at stock it was still a good board and was priced better than the Vortex versions. Only downside is they decided to be creative and move where the USB connects to the board - I'm still working on a work-around to try other cases. IMO they make a decent product for a decent price and personally I don't care if it came out of China as long as it works as intended for the right price - also it was a simple board to mod and I wasn't too worried if I damaged something as I swapped my switches from MX-Browns to Gateron Black Ink v1's (main switches) and Gat Yellows (space and shift keys), painted the plastic case and added in foam.
If you like the boards from iKBC your Grandfather collected keep the one you like the most.
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Leopold > ikbc in my opinon . the keycaps that you get are really good.
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Of course Leopold is a better option, but that's not what is being asked.
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My grandpas IKBC was one of a kind non production. I do not even use it. It does not suit me. I am using something else he left me. We cannot argue a different continent here. We have absolutely nothing to do with it. Who cares where something is made. I guess there is a stigma with China is low quality. Some of the finest goods in the world come from China. The average consumer just does not experience that. They equate it with Walmart. We cannot change that here either. There is no point in discussing it. The MF keyboards are very high quality. In fact I really do not see how Leopold is better but that is just my opinion. I think you would have to step up to like KBDfanatics to get better. Again, just my opinion. I do not even have a stock unit on hand. I have tried one and felt that it was pretty good quality. There is no need to argue this point either. It is just my opinion and I do not even own one. I was speaking to the guy that had purchased one. I told him that I thought it was a good deal. That is all. He does not intend to leave it stock regardless. I think this was coming from another thread however. I cannot really remember. Anyhow There is really no reason to discuss any of this any longer. At least I am not going to participate.
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I guess we are talking about which country the board is made in because that was the purpose of your post. In your title, and in your first comment.
But, yes, it does not matter.
I can tell you right now that I am typing on an IKBC 108 key keyboard and it is fantastic. I just got it this week. It is super heavy. Feels premium.
The steel switchplate is not something to be discounted. Many custom keyboard makers prefer a switchplate made from brass and steel. With good reason, I am learning as I type on this new keyboard.
I am not convinced the Leopold is better than the IKBC. For me, the plastic, the layout, and the positioning of the branding made the IKBC a better choice for me.
Regarding keycaps, I realize the Leopold ships with better keycaps. But I was going to replace them anyway. So I do not mind the double shot ABS keycaps that shipped with the IKBC since I won't be using them.
This IKBC keyboard is super heavy. Like a tank. It's quiet, especially since I have it on a rubber deskmat. The only thing I hear is the spring ping from the Cherry Silent Reds that it shipped with. Lubing the springs would help that. But I'm going to replace the switches anyway. But my point in mentioning it is to demonstrate how quiet the board is.
It's metal, it looks very clean. No cheap plastic. No logos. I am happy with this keyboard and glad I chose it over the Leopold.
I will use the cherry silent reds in it for a little more to get a feel for them. And then I'm going to replace them with Zilents and lube the stabilizers (which came from factory pretty quiet already).
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I should clarify, depends on the model of Leopold - but as I mentioned I personally enjoy my iKBC New Poker II, definitely not putting down iKBC at all since even stock it was a good board that the only gripe I had was the scratchy MX Browns. I would definitely consider a iKBC MF87 v.2 to add to my line-up, since i like the fact it comes in an Aluminum case compared to the manufactured competition.
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Okay, since you guy's were polite I will dispel a myth. The stock caps on the MF 108 V3 are in fact surprisingly good. The only reason to swap them would be you don't like the font etc. However they were designed to allow for maximum light transfer. That being said, they are comprised of PBT doubleshot shells with POM fonts and average 1.45 to 1.48mm thick. They are absolutely not ABS! Even the space bar is PBT. I think they might grow on you and you may find you rather like dim white backlighting. The stabs are very good for stock. Just lube with synthetic grease. No need to band-aide. I honestly feel Zilents are a bunch of hoopla. I prefer reds which are blues without the click. Reds are good for typing. Than I would go to a custom panda not a zilent. Or that Drop switch. Zilents got hyped up and a name.
I would hate to see you do the entire board and not like them. What can I say, do what you must. You may wonder why I know so much about a board I do not own. A friend wanted to "spruce" one up a bit and I helped him. I really do not know a lot about keyboards. Nothing like my Grandfather. I can take things apart, solder good etc. So people ask me for help. I want to commend you all for keeping it civil here. I know when there is speak of whom rules countries and such things could get out of hand. I am very glad that it did not here.
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The problem, for me, is the reds are not tactile. I'm giving these silent reds a good, honest, try.
I am a very fast and heavy typer. I type all day for work. I am missing the tactility. That is why I will prefer the Zilents over the reds. For me, silence is the most important part as my typing with Browns really annoy my wife, and my teammates when on teleconference. Zilents provide tactility, but are silent on the press, the bottom out, and on the return. Due to slight cusioning built into the stem. And I don't find them overly mushy. Not nearly as mushy as placing an oring. I think the Zilents are quieter on the return than my silent reds.
If you like silent reds, you should give Healios 63.5g and Sakurios 62g a try. These are not actuation force spec, but bottom out spec. They are close to silent reds.
You are mistaken about the keycaps on the MF 108 V3 being double shot PBT. They are double shot ABS. Just look at them and feel them next to a PBT keycap. It's obvious they are ABS. If there is any doubt in your mind, you only need to consult the manual that came with the keyboard. First section on first page. Bullet point #3 reads "ABS double shot keycap". I find the font to be not pleasing. Especially the "O", "D", "B", "4", "6", "8", "9", "0", "Home", "Del", "PgDn", "F6", "F8", "F9", "F10", and Shift keys.
The stabs aren't too bad, I agree. Like I said before, I don't anticipate needing to replace all of them. They do need to be lubed. On mine, the space, keypad enter, keypad +, and backspace need some tuning.
I don't think the zilents are hoopla. They fill a good niche. They are tactile. They have 4 options for force that allow you to pick the one that's best for you. Allowing you to pick keys that don't accidently press while your hands are resting on the keyboard, and yet to not provide fatigue. You pick the weight depending on how heavy your hands are. And they are very quite.
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I prefer lubed blues. If I had to pick Cherry. I like noise. However, I use completely custom switches.
https://www.ikbckeyboard.com/product-page/copy-of-ikbc-mf108-v-3
"Double shot PBT key caps"
I had talked with the CEO of the company and he confirmed that the manual is for several other keyboards.
I have seen the board used 1000+ hours and not shiny. I don't really care as I do not even own this board.