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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: knightjp on Mon, 03 August 2020, 13:47:39
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I recently bought an original Model M or my brother. He loves it and claims that the keys have such a feel to them that is unmatched.
Since I am a fan of Apple keyboards, and the Model M was the Genesis for the standard PC keyboard, I wanted to see what it is like compared to the original Apple Mac keyboard - M0110.
Does anyone know what it is like to use M0110 everyday? I know there are plenty of people that use their Model M as a daily. But I have hardly heard of anyone using M0110s...
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It’s certainly a popular enough design to have had The Key Company create a modern version of it, so I’d imagine there’s some :)
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I recently bought an original Model M or my brother. He loves it and claims that the keys have such a feel to them that is unmatched.
Since I am a fan of Apple keyboards, and the Model M was the Genesis for the standard PC keyboard, I wanted to see what it is like compared to the original Apple Mac keyboard - M0110.
Does anyone know what it is like to use M0110 everyday? I know there are plenty of people that use their Model M as a daily. But I have hardly heard of anyone using M0110s...
I think its kind of an Apple & Orange situation (no pun intended lol). The switch used for the M0110 is the Alps SKCC Tall Cream linear (prior to the industry height profile standard becoming active in the mid 80's) & of course the Model M uses membrane buckling springs. Just completely different animals. Buckling springs, when not used to them, can feel extremely heavy. Yet, once you adjust, they do have a very comforting spring back key feel which encourages faster typing over time.
The SKCC are linears but have an enormous amount of ping, mostly from the hefty chassis, which is fairly pleasing. They also seem to have a fairly hefty keyfeel(from my experience at least).
All that being said, my daily drivers are the M0115 & M0116 with Alps Orange & Alps Salmon respectfully & they practically destroy any switch present in my house. Even being a clicky switch guy, these things are just delicious, keyfeel and sound wise :thumb:
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I recently bought an original Model M or my brother. He loves it and claims that the keys have such a feel to them that is unmatched.
Since I am a fan of Apple keyboards, and the Model M was the Genesis for the standard PC keyboard, I wanted to see what it is like compared to the original Apple Mac keyboard - M0110.
Does anyone know what it is like to use M0110 everyday? I know there are plenty of people that use their Model M as a daily. But I have hardly heard of anyone using M0110s...
I think its kind of an Apple & Orange situation (no pun intended lol). The switch used for the M0110 is the Alps SKCC Tall Cream linear (prior to the industry height profile standard becoming active in the mid 80's) & of course the Model M uses membrane buckling springs. Just completely different animals. Buckling springs, when not used to them, can feel extremely heavy. Yet, once you adjust, they do have a very comforting spring back key feel which encourages faster typing over time.
The SKCC are linears but have an enormous amount of ping, mostly from the hefty chassis, which is fairly pleasing. They also seem to have a fairly hefty keyfeel(from my experience at least).
All that being said, my daily drivers are the M0115 & M0116 with Alps Orange & Alps Salmon respectfully & they practically destroy any switch present in my house. Even being a clicky switch guy, these things are just delicious, keyfeel and sound wise :thumb:
I don't have an M0110, and probably never will, but rhubarbpi is probably right on this. I do have a board with some SKCC cream switches, and they feel wonderful if you like linears. Definitely nothing at all like any clicky switch, especially not membrane buckling spring.
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The biggest reason for thinking of getting M0110 is since the model M is "Genesis" for the standard PC keyboard and that I like MacOS, thought about how about getting myself the Genesis of Apple Mac keyboards. When I was a kid, there was a movie called the Absent Minded Professor with a computer named Albert. Albert was a Mac SE with the M0116 as a keyboard and it was the computer I always wanted as a kid.
Am now thinking which of the two would be better as a daily driver?
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Does anyone know what it is like to use M0110 everyday? I know there are plenty of people that use their Model M as a daily. But I have hardly heard of anyone using M0110s...
I do, because I did back in the day. I'll let others talk about the key feel, switches and pinging, and I'll focus on the physical/logical layout.
The M0110 layout is not good, for a simple reason: the absolute lack of navigation keys, which forces you to navigate with the mouse (Sanctimonious Steve's idea, quickly proven to be a bad one). For a guy like my father, who wrote unending texts with minimal editing, this was fine; for a guy like me, a programmer, the limiting navigation was a serious misfeature that hindered usability heavily.
There are other problems, like the lack of an Esc key, that can be more or less mitigated in the same manner as it's done in a modern 60%; the lack of a numpad is a total pest if you write in numbers a lot, but can otherwise not be an issue. The absence of an F row wasn't an issue while using a Macintosh keyboard on a Macintosh computer (duh), but using it on a modern PC, wellllllll...
Anyhoo, navigation (and the F row): the HHKB layout (which is "heavily based" on the M0110) mitigated this problem by splitting the right Shift and placing a (single, rightside) Fn key to access navigation commands (and the F row, and Insert, the actual Delete, etc.); this CAN be copied on the M0110, by remapping the right Option key (which would cease to be the right-side Ctrl key), but its location on the bottom row instead of the Shift row makes it rather uncomfortable; remember M0110 keyboards have a latching Caps Lock, so mapping Ctrl there requires modding the keyboard.
When Jobs was fired from Apple, one of the very first thing the Apple engineers did was to replace the M0110 keyboard (along with the M0120) with the M0110A. This model also has its problems (gratuituous elbow Enter, limited right-side mods), BUT it does add cursor keys (and a numpad), and that DID alleviate things a lot.
If you want to daily drive an M0110, I'd suggest getting an M0110A instead (an earlier one, with SKCC switches instead of the later Mitsumi stuff, for the "true" feel and ping). They're more easily found, so you'll even have to pay less for it.
HTH!
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If you want to daily drive an M0110, I'd suggest getting an M0110A instead (an earlier one, with SKCC switches instead of the later Mitsumi stuff, for the "true" feel and ping). They're more easily found, so you'll even have to pay less for it.
HTH!
I have to disagree, mitsumi standard mechanical switch type 1 on the m0110a is massively underrated, and by far the best switch mitsumi has ever put out. it gives alps skcc a run for its money. try it out before discounting it.
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The ideas of the M0110A is a good one and I would want to get the one with the switches that are similar to the M0110.
However what about my other question in between the M0110 and the M0116? I know that the God of all Apple keyboards is the M0115 Apple Extended Keyboard.
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The ideas of the M0110A is a good one and I would want to get the one with the switches that are similar to the M0110.
However what about my other question in between the M0110 and the M0116? I know that the God of all Apple keyboards is the M0115 Apple Extended Keyboard.
M0116 or m0118 ( might throw it in as well because they are very much alike except the enter key) use either alps salmon or orange. They are tactile switches and entire different breed than what you have in m0110 or m0110a. So again you are asking a comparison between my profile picture and orange here
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The ideas of the M0110A is a good one and I would want to get the one with the switches that are similar to the M0110.
However what about my other question in between the M0110 and the M0116? I know that the God of all Apple keyboards is the M0115 Apple Extended Keyboard.
M0116 or m0118 ( might throw it in as well because they are very much alike except the enter key) use either alps salmon or orange. They are tactile switches and entire different breed than what you have in m0110 or m0110a. So again you are asking a comparison between my profile picture and orange here
I have to concur with envyy, the M0116/M0118 may be the way to go. It has a more modern layout, and both switches are some of the BEST tactile switches ever produced. My best condition alps board currently is the M0116 with Alps Salmons and is my daily driver - I try to keep bringing my other boards back & I keep reconnecting the M0116 :thumb:
Also, the M0110/M0110A has less converter options - something to consider.
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I have to concur with envyy, the M0116/M0118 may be the way to go. It has a more modern layout, and both switches are some of the BEST tactile switches ever produced. My best condition alps board currently is the M0116 with Alps Salmons and is my daily driver - I try to keep bringing my other boards back & I keep reconnecting the M0116 :thumb:
Also, the M0110/M0110A has less converter options - something to consider.
Yeah while personally i am not a big fan of alps, I have to say good condition alps salmon and orange produces very satisfying typing experience. Especially salmon. I know people often rate and pay more for orange but salmon is more alps-like to me personally.
However there is one thing im not very clear here, what do you mean by "less converter options"?
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I have to concur with envyy, the M0116/M0118 may be the way to go. It has a more modern layout, and both switches are some of the BEST tactile switches ever produced. My best condition alps board currently is the M0116 with Alps Salmons and is my daily driver - I try to keep bringing my other boards back & I keep reconnecting the M0116 :thumb:
Also, the M0110/M0110A has less converter options - something to consider.
Yeah while personally i am not a big fan of alps, I have to say good condition alps salmon and orange produces very satisfying typing experience. Especially salmon. I know people often rate and pay more for orange but salmon is more alps-like to me personally.
However there is one thing im not very clear here, what do you mean by "less converter options"?
I don't see as many off the shelf converters available for the M0110, as it doesn't use the ADB protocol. I know they exist via tinkerBOY but have not seen other options to convert to USB - I hope I'm wrong! I know there are options to hand wire/solder for it, as its just a phone pin connector reversed.
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If you want to daily drive an M0110, I'd suggest getting an M0110A instead (an earlier one, with SKCC switches instead of the later Mitsumi stuff, for the "true" feel and ping). They're more easily found, so you'll even have to pay less for it.
HTH!
I have to disagree, mitsumi standard mechanical switch type 1 on the m0110a is massively underrated, and by far the best switch mitsumi has ever put out. it gives alps skcc a run for its money. try it out before discounting it.
I have not discounted it — I do have both an SKCC M0110A and a Mitsumi M0110A, and the latter is indeed very good, as you say; its ping just isn't the same as the SKCC's (which is what I was going for with the "true feel of the original" comment).
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Also, the M0110/M0110A has less converter options - something to consider.
Do as I do: keep a healthy stock of Hasu's TMK converters. :-)
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I don't see as many off the shelf converters available for the M0110, as it doesn't use the ADB protocol. I know they exist via tinkerBOY but have not seen other options to convert to USB - I hope I'm wrong! I know there are options to hand wire/solder for it, as its just a phone pin connector reversed.
There are two manufacturers of adapters for both M0110, ADB, as well as others.. Drakware and Tinkerboy. I've seen a number of videos to suggest that they work well and they are not as expensive as iMate adapters were.
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I don't see as many off the shelf converters available for the M0110, as it doesn't use the ADB protocol. I know they exist via tinkerBOY but have not seen other options to convert to USB - I hope I'm wrong! I know there are options to hand wire/solder for it, as its just a phone pin connector reversed.
There are two manufacturers of adapters for both M0110, ADB, as well as others.. Drakware and Tinkerboy. I've seen a number of videos to suggest that they work well and they are not as expensive as iMate adapters were.
tinkerBOY are the ADB converters I use - wonderful! Though the newer ADB cables are kind of funky with it in terms of fit compared to the older, longer ADB cables commonly found with the IIgs. The older cables seem to fit better!
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Well i just make my own converter so i thought you guys are saying there are not many WAYS to convert them. So i was lost. Personally don;t see converter can be a problem because you can make them easy and cheap.
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Can make own converter , firmware is def. available
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treeleaf ~~ ~ ~~