Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 11 August 2020, 13:08:49
(https://i.imgur.com/gSf2f9Z.jpg)
This is an IC for round 2 of the Panc40 keyboard kit. I'm planning on launching this GB at 11/23.
This is a 40% keyboard (Minorca: 43 keys, Sebright: 41 keys, Ancona: 47 keys) I designed. Here’s the GB link for the first round’s GB (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=101384). This is a high profile aluminum milled case, with a PCB supporting hotswap and underglow. The switch plate is going to be top-mounted, with 6 circular tabs for added stability. This will have a left-mounted USB location, and uses USB-C as the terminal. The PCB does support QMK. An IC channel was created on the 40% discord channel:
https://discord.gg/S2nzMJZdaM
With this iteration, I’m trying to nail the price at
1x Hotswap Panc40 PCB supporting both Sebright and Minorca layouts OR a Hotswap Panc40 Ancona ortho PCB (all supporting QMK)
1x Minorca/Ancona or Sebright milled aluminum top frame
1x 4° angle milled aluminum base (compatible with both Sebright and Minorca top frames)
1x Stainless steel top-mount switchplate
1x 2mm frosted acrylic diffuser
1x 4mm switchplate dampening foam
2x 2u PCB stabs
Color treatment
Hardware
Album with additional prototype images (https://panc.co/panc40)
There are three different layouts (Ancona, Minorca and Sebright) on one PCB, two corresponding case options, ability to bundle PCB-mount stabs, and a milled base using a 4° incline. This will also have a frosted acrylic layer LED diffusion.
Ancona layouts (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/e9df4caae60c25b3d485f00cf940a812)
Minorca/Sebright layouts (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/7c15aafa37349f61b8372f4f8f682850)
The boards will be powdercoated in one of four available colors:
Quater Blue (Satin finish) (https://isteam.wsimg.com/ip/5ce8ab23-6641-4687-b212-df1038068187/bDSC_1749.JPG/:/rs=w:1023px,cg:true,m)
Bright Red (Semi-gloss finish) (https://isteam.wsimg.com/ip/5ce8ab23-6641-4687-b212-df1038068187/bDSC_1797.JPG/:/rs=w:1023px,cg:true,m)
Watson White (Satin finish) (https://isteam.wsimg.com/ip/5ce8ab23-6641-4687-b212-df1038068187/DSC_1501.JPG/:/rs=w:1023px,cg:true,m)
Lavender Mist (Satin finish) (https://isteam.wsimg.com/ip/5ce8ab23-6641-4687-b212-df1038068187/DSC_2148.JPG/:/rs=w:1023px,cg:true,m)
I definitely want to add more color options, and if anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them!
If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask. Thanks!
TL;DR -
* Aluminum frame and base
* 4° incline
* RGB underglow
* Frosted acrylic diffuser
* Top-mount switch plate
* Switchplate supporting both Minorca and Sebright layouts or Ancona layout
* Hotswap PCB supporting both Minorca and Sebright layouts or Ancona layout
* USB-C PCB terminal
* All necessary screws and feet bumpons
* QMK firmware
* 4mm switchplate dampening foam
* Case support for additional layouts is possible (ortho, 6.25u spacebar etc)
* ~$320 pricepoint
FAQ section:
Q: Why did you create a new ortholinear PCB when it mimics layouts provided by the planck PCB?
A: The planck PCB has the USB terminal in a different location, so I couldn’t use it with this case configuration. Also, this PCB adds a few more layout options, as I wanted to make sure it was differentiated a bit.
Q: Why is the incline 4° instead of 5° or 7°?
A: After evaluating different configurations and angle options, I felt that 4 degrees was the best option. I did use 5 and felt it was a bit too drastic for this small of a keyboard. The prototype tester group also felt that the 4° was a suitable middle ground.
Q: Is it possible to only get the ortholinear options without buying the staggered options?
A: Yes!
Q: Is there going to be plate foam available for these layouts?
A: Yes!
Q: Is this build going to include a weight option?
A: No, I’ve never been a big fan of weights in my designs, and I think other people do a much better job than I do at that.
Q: Will the plate files be available for this keyboard?
A: Yes, I've made them available for R1 and while I don't explicitly plan on modifying the design for R2, I want to make sure there aren't any small changes, so I'm going to release the files after the GB ships.
(https://i.imgur.com/upifu7V.jpg/:/rs=w:1023px,cg:true,m)
Post by: yoot on Tue, 11 August 2020, 13:10:41
Post by: alferguet on Tue, 11 August 2020, 13:52:14
However have a few questions and would be glad if you could answer them.
If the past GB costed 235$ what has increased the price that much?
Are you going to look for EU proxies this time?
Does the PCB come already socketed for hotswap or will we have to install them?
Also would be possible for you to add matte color choices this time too?
Thank you very much, will keep an eye on the ic.
Post by: wawa on Tue, 11 August 2020, 13:53:13
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 11 August 2020, 16:12:50
Nice looking! How heavy will this be?
Fully built, with caps, we're looking at ~30 oz.
I am definitely interested in this keyboard as was looking for a 40% with an ortholinear option having a case similar to the one you have shown.
However have a few questions and would be glad if you could answer them.
If the past GB costed 235$ what has increased the price that much?
Are you going to look for EU proxies this time?
Does the PCB come already socketed for hotswap or will we have to install them?
Also would be possible for you to add matte color choices this time too?
Thank you very much, will keep an eye on the ic.
- If the past GB costed 235$ what has increased the price that much?
I was selling the kit at a slight loss before, half because I wanted to get it to market finally after working on it for a very long time, and half because of a price drop to get more interest. In this climate, the production cost has increased due to our global situation, and I'm no longer in a position to take a hit on the cost. I do believe in making sure people get the absolute greatest value as possible from their order, so I'll be working hard to ensure this happens.
- Are you going to look for EU proxies this time?
I am definitely going to be looking to work with some EU partners. I'm working with them on some other projects, so hopefully those relationships will help everyone out!
- Does the PCB come already socketed for hotswap or will we have to install them?
The PCB will come fully assembled. All you need to do is seat the switches 👍👍
- Also would be possible for you to add matte color choices this time too?
Absolutely. I'm in the process of vetting some darker color options which will have matte finishes. I want to offer gunmetal, forest green and nude options.
Post by: alferguet on Wed, 12 August 2020, 11:22:01
Reaaaally interested in getting one of these with an ancona layout. The case just seems like a brutal improvement (love those bezels, how thick it is and not being tray mounted) over other high profile 40% cases and there aren't that many available asides a few planck (and mostly 3d printed) options.
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 25 August 2020, 06:24:58
(https://www.panc.co/uploads/4/0/3/7/4037410/img-20200804-115316-631_orig.jpg)
Post by: atlanticise on Tue, 25 August 2020, 08:10:52
Post by: econeuler on Wed, 26 August 2020, 07:50:55
How is the fit/accuracy with the plate together with the hotswap pcb? Is soldering recommended here?
E.g., some of the Planck boards (v6) have problems with dissembling the switches of the hotswap pcb once they are in place,
because there's too much variance in making the plates. But they seem to have some problems with them overall, I've also heard that the usb
connector has "fallen off" on several pcbs, so it might be the right choice to skip that one!
Post by: Willtato on Wed, 26 August 2020, 09:31:31
Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Wed, 26 August 2020, 11:37:17
This is so amazing, I've been looking for a hotswap 40% with a staggered layout! WHERE DO I SIGN UP?
Coming soon my friend, just ironing out some details :thumb:
Post by: JoltFX on Wed, 26 August 2020, 13:34:12
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Post by: JoltFX on Wed, 26 August 2020, 17:06:48
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Wed, 26 August 2020, 17:54:38
This looks really nice! I just ordered a OLKB from drop and this looks way better... I’m in
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Cancelled it because I’d rather have this
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Well shucks! (https://media0.giphy.com/media/l378blUrWE1J1of3q/giphy.gif)
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Wed, 26 August 2020, 18:22:58
I'd definitely consider this if there was an EU vendor
Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
I'm reaching out to the ones I have a relationship with for sure :thumb:
Very nice, I'm also interested! :thumb:
How is the fit/accuracy with the plate together with the hotswap pcb? Is soldering recommended here?
E.g., some of the Planck boards (v6) have problems with dissembling the switches of the hotswap pcb once they are in place,
because there's too much variance in making the plates. But they seem to have some problems with them overall, I've also heard that the usb
connector has "fallen off" on several pcbs, so it might be the right choice to skip that one!
I've never had a planck of any rev so I can't speak to their build quality. However, I personally know one person who has rebuilt (desolder/solder rotation) a standard planck PCB at least 6 times with various switches and it is still going strong.
I don't know where OLKB gets their PCBs manued but I've been able to QC and resolve 99% of issues with the PCBs I sourced, and was able to provide replacements if an issue came up with the other 1%. To sum it up I'd say, buy with confidence!
Post by: JoltFX on Thu, 27 August 2020, 00:59:13
Yes yes we canThis looks really nice! I just ordered a OLKB from drop and this looks way better... I’m in
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)Cancelled it because I’d rather have this
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Well shucks! (https://media0.giphy.com/media/l378blUrWE1J1of3q/giphy.gif)
(https://sanpj.tonikaku.photos/i/kqct.png) (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105898.0)
Post by: econeuler on Thu, 27 August 2020, 04:04:32
I've never had a planck of any rev so I can't speak to their build quality. However, I personally know one person who has rebuilt (desolder/solder rotation) a standard planck PCB at least 6 times with various switches and it is still going strong.
I don't know where OLKB gets their PCBs manued but I've been able to QC and resolve 99% of issues with the PCBs I sourced, and was able to provide replacements if an issue came up with the other 1%. To sum it up I'd say, buy with confidence!
Great :) Looking forward to the GB!
Post by: Vietnow on Fri, 28 August 2020, 16:06:26
Post by: Learis on Tue, 01 September 2020, 00:22:03
Post by: dddeeaatthhh on Tue, 01 September 2020, 08:24:50
Absolutely. I'm in the process of vetting some darker color options which will have matte finishes. I want to offer gunmetal, forest green and nude options.
when you say a nude option, do you mean nude like the color? or nude as in no color/bare metal? just curious
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 01 September 2020, 09:38:35
Hello, all of your links seem to have a file not found error for me for the images.
Fixed'em, sorry about that!
Absolutely. I'm in the process of vetting some darker color options which will have matte finishes. I want to offer gunmetal, forest green and nude options.
when you say a nude option, do you mean nude like the color? or nude as in no color/bare metal? just curious
I was thinking "nude like the color", something like this (https://www.prismaticpowders.com/shop/powder-coating-colors/PMB-6730/pastel-pink).
Post by: JoltFX on Sun, 06 September 2020, 10:46:57
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 08 September 2020, 16:10:55
Update?
Just getting some things squared away right now!
I don't know how likely it will be to get overseas proxies, but doing my damndest to make it happen :thumb:
Post by: JoltFX on Tue, 08 September 2020, 18:25:14
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Sun, 04 October 2020, 11:46:59
(https://i.imgur.com/UvL85WO.jpg)
Post by: Fenlair on Mon, 05 October 2020, 02:34:33
Post by: Zytyx on Mon, 05 October 2020, 07:31:01
-First, how do you plan to tackle supporting the hotswap pcb, as it's not rigidly mounted to the plate or case. I currently have a bit of foam on the bottom row to keep the pcb held up.
-Second, I had encountered an issue with the R1 where the keycaps would rub against the inner bezel due to the inconsistency of the powder coat application. How do you plan to address this, if at all, for those interested in the R2?
-Third, the included case feet with the R1 seemed to come off rather quickly due to a lack of a recess for them to sit. Will you be fixing this issue in any way?
-Fourth, do you plan on adding a cutout to the mid piece to allow the usb port clearance? as it currently stands I have the rear section loosened greatly so that I am able to even use a cable.
-Fifth, if you plan on including case foam again, will you go through a reputable vendor, or has your set up improved? The foam from the first one was horribly misaligned.
Overall, I am cautious with how this second run will turn out if the problems of the first are not addressed.
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 05 October 2020, 11:00:38
-First, how do you plan to tackle supporting the hotswap pcb, as it's not rigidly mounted to the plate or case. I currently have a bit of foam on the bottom row to keep the pcb held up.I found during my testing (also daily) that the PCB didn’t come untethered from any switches, but having supporting foam between the diffuser and the bottom of the PCB sounds like a great idea. The problem that can arise, it seems, is that the foam might cover the LEDs, or it might cause the PCB to push up against the top frame. I’ll do some testing on custom-cut sizes in order to maintain support.
-Second, I had encountered an issue with the R1 where the keycaps would rub against the inner bezel due to the inconsistency of the powder coat application. How do you plan to address this, if at all, for those interested in the R2?When this occurred during R1, anyone who reported it to me could send it back and I could make the necessary modifications to keep it from being a consistent issue. During R2, I’m using very specific powder which I have tested in real-world applications, to ensure that the coating doesn’t exceed tolerances.
-Third, the included case feet with the R1 seemed to come off rather quickly due to a lack of a recess for them to sit. Will you be fixing this issue in any way?I’ve been able to affix the feet to the mountpoints at each corner that allows them to sit securely, but I am definitely open to testing dedicated recesses for them.
-Fourth, do you plan on adding a cutout to the mid piece to allow the usb port clearance? as it currently stands I have the rear section loosened greatly so that I am able to even use a cable.I haven’t encountered this issue, but I can certainly expand the USB port opening to allow for various widths of USB-C cable terminals.
-Fifth, if you plan on including case foam again, will you go through a reputable vendor, or has your set up improved? The foam from the first one was horribly misaligned.
This issue has been resolved. The problem occurred when kerf from the laser caused the cutouts to be offset in some cases. I’ll send you a fixed version to replace your current one, and I’ll make a video demonstrating the accurate fit.
To summarize issues not already addressed in R2, you're looking for: additional support for the hotswap PCB, and recesses for case feet. Issues that have been addressed are the powdercoat-to-case tolerances, and case foam fitment. The issue of usb port cutout size will need to be evaluated, but should be easily accommodated.
Thanks for the above, I'll reach out to get those personal issues resolved for you :thumb:
Post by: Zytyx on Mon, 05 October 2020, 12:21:38
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 05 October 2020, 13:08:22
(https://i.imgur.com/nbObqF6.jpg)
Post by: Muiju on Mon, 05 October 2020, 13:27:24
- If the past GB costed 235$ what has increased the price that much?
I was selling the kit at a slight loss before, half because I wanted to get it to market finally after working on it for a very long time, and half because of a price drop to get more interest. In this climate, the production cost has increased due to our global situation, and I'm no longer in a position to take a hit on the cost. I do believe in making sure people get the absolute greatest value as possible from their order, so I'll be working hard to ensure this happens.
What are the tentative timelines for production and GB to open?
A wild question - If the production dates pass the timeline for when the global production costs decrease (after pandemic), would there be a cost reduction for this initiative?
Post by: Zytyx on Mon, 05 October 2020, 14:17:24
(https://i.imgur.com/6SVeviM.jpg)
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 05 October 2020, 15:51:37
What are the tentative timelines for production and GB to open?
Right now, we're looking at early December for opening the GB and Q2 2021 for shipping to customers. I've never been a fan of limiting GB spots, so this timeline account for any amount of entrants.
A wild question - If the production dates pass the timeline for when the global production costs decrease (after pandemic), would there be a cost reduction for this initiative?
Absolutely! I always endeavor to squeeze the most value out of every entry. Whether it's free switchplate color treatments, partial refunds or shipping upgrades, if there's a marginal surplus I'm happy to pass it on :thumb:
Post by: treeleaf64 on Mon, 05 October 2020, 15:57:02
Very quirky
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 05 October 2020, 19:00:44
My daily driver, a Sebright in Volcano Stone.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/6SVeviM.jpg)
Looking great! (https://i.imgur.com/hjLaIRA.gif) Oblivion works extremely well with that color.
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 06 October 2020, 17:50:06
(https://i.imgur.com/B1xXgNo.jpg)
I can't seem to land on a consistent Rose Gold powder. Maybe I'll hit on it, someday.
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 12 October 2020, 08:43:33
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 19 October 2020, 11:11:30
(https://i.imgur.com/0xCgJzi.jpg)
Do you think this would work?
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Wed, 28 October 2020, 05:18:54
Zytyx sent me his build so I could make the adjustments we discussed, and I was able to do some testing and investigation. Regarding issues 1, 2 and 4, the main problem was that the switches were not pressed down into the PCB with sufficient force, to make sure that all of the switches and their PCB mount legs were seated into the hotswap sockets, and the PCB switch cutouts. Meaning, they were definitely inserted enough to make contact with the conductors inside the sockets so that keystrikes were registered, but not so much that the PCB mount legs were completely inserted into the cutouts in the physical PCB itself.
After making sure that the switches were inserted all the way into the PCB cutouts and firmly pressing the switches, plate and PCB together, I am happy to report that issues 1, 2 and 4 were resolved! See image below:
(https://i.imgur.com/h5sCMV6.jpg)
The USB-C cable terminal can now be inserted as designed, with the case completely screwed together (issue 4). Also, the PCB no longer needs any foam support from underneath because it's connected so firmly with the switches (issue 1), and the keycap/case lip tolerance issue was resolved after getting everything more tightly aligned (issue 2). I conclude issue 2 was due to the PCB not being seated with the switches adequately, which caused the switches to move incrementally when depressed.
In any event, the fundamental usability issues were resolved when the build was assembled solidly. Regarding issues 3 and 5, which are feet affixing and switchplate foam respectively, have been addressed. I've stripped both parts and made foot wells on the bottom plate, and have installed new foam.
Looking forward to getting this build back quickly.
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Mon, 09 November 2020, 20:16:36
An IC channel was graciously created on the 40% discord server.
https://discord.gg/S2nzMJZdaM
Post by: nasp on Tue, 10 November 2020, 08:12:00
I was able to make some changes and get the price lower now. I'm planning on launching the GB in about 2 weeks (11/23).
An IC channel was graciously created on the 40% discord server.
https://discord.gg/S2nzMJZdaM
Does the plate file from RD1 still work with this design?
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Tue, 10 November 2020, 16:35:17
I was able to make some changes and get the price lower now. I'm planning on launching the GB in about 2 weeks (11/23).
An IC channel was graciously created on the 40% discord server.
https://discord.gg/S2nzMJZdaM
Does the plate file from RD1 still work with this design?
Absolutely :thumb:
Post by: Codezilla on Thu, 12 November 2020, 21:08:19
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Fri, 13 November 2020, 13:11:20
The price jump is steep. Also was wondering if cerakoted e-white would be an option.
The price is definitely a bit of a jump. I was losing money on the last run, just so I could get it out, because I had been trying to get the build out into the space for a while. Now that I have a bit of breathing room, I can at least try to make sure that the cushion built in so that I can quickly take care of shipping/packing/production discrepancies.
As far as cerakote, I've personally tried it before and failed. If I can find a reliable cerakote application vendor, I'd definitely be interested in evaluating that option. If people would like to get a bare/non-colortreated unit, we might be able to make that happen, so that cerakote can be applied at your vendor of choice! :thumb:
Post by: AlexAtPanc on Sun, 22 November 2020, 12:13:29
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: