geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Weizilla on Sun, 18 October 2020, 14:04:27
-
I have a NK65 that needs some switches. I've settled on Zilents as I need something quiet and tactile but I'm having a hard time deciding on the weight, specifically between 62, 65 and 67.
I have a switch tester so I'm testing them in person and these are my impressions:
- 62: Great tactility but might be too light. Repeatedly pressing the key in quick succession feels like sometimes it just didn't return fast enough.
- 65: Nice compromise on weight between 62 and 67 but not as tactile which is a bummer
- 67: Great tactility but I can't tell if it'll be too heavy. Just by itself it seems great but I'm worried how it'll feel as the whole board and after a few hours of typing. It does feel a bit more difficult to hold down with the pinky as a modifier.
The switches I have experience with:
- Cherry MX Blue: I don't mind the clicking but I really don't like the amount resistance right after the click. It makes typing feel mushy.
- Gateron Brown: I like it better than the MX Blue due to less resistance but would prefer more tactility.
- Apple Chicklet keyboard: I actually like using these the best
I like using chicklet keyboards because I think what I like is the stiff resistance at the top of travel then having resistance drops off after the initial bump so I can bottom out.
Any advice on which weight to get? I like the tactile of 62/67 but the weight of 65 :-\ It also so hard to extrapolate the feeling of a single switch to using it for hours at a time across the whole board.
Or perhaps it's all moot and regardless of which weight, you just get used to them after a while?
-
personally i recommend the 65g based on your thoughts on other switches. feels tactile like a brown but more topre-like and is not fatiguing at all. i can type / game on my zilent board all day. i can "aggressively" rest my hands on WASD without accidentally hitting any keys.
-
I am a bit heavy handed. For me, I'd be worried that resting my hands on home keys or on wasd would result in accidental presses. But like you, I wonder if the 67g are too strong.
I've got some of both coming. Get 10-20 of each kind and put some of them on your board and see what you'd like best before committing.
-
It's hard to say. The 62 G [which I have] can be very tactile, and that can be an issue. A highly-tactile switch with a weaker return could less to 'false' keypresses or tactile feedback.
The 67 is more tamed and well-rounded, but it may be heavy for someone used to Brown-like weights. It's a popular weight for Zilents, though. I think Zilent weights are less than the advertised weights, so 67 may not be too bad, more like 65 Korean.
I honestly think 65 may be a good compromise. I tried a handful. They didn't seem much different from the 62, a little less tactile, but honestly they may be easier to type on in the long-run.
With the cost of Zilents being what they are, I suggest you type on 4-10 of each switch for several minutes each, before soldering anything.
-
I am a bit heavy handed. For me, I'd be worried that resting my hands on home keys or on wasd would result in accidental presses. But like you, I wonder if the 67g are too strong.
I've got some of both coming. Get 10-20 of each kind and put some of them on your board and see what you'd like best before committing.
i'm pretty heavy handed myself and don't have any problems with the 65g - post back when you the switches arrive, i'm curious what you decide!
-
It's easy to think lighter springs are less snappy but in reality, they should be pretty much the same, especially with springs so similar. The difference is often the sound.
I have 39g springs and stock springs in my 62g zilents and while they sound like they are slower if I hammer them side by side they're just as fast. I even put some stock Gateron browns (65g) side by side and there was no perceivable difference, they only sounded faster because the sharper and harder click on return.
-
I think Zilent weights are less than the advertised weights, so 67 may not be too bad, more like 65 Korean.
The published weights for the Zeal switches are bottom out force, not actuation force. That is the difference.
-
Cherry is one of the only one's who rates springs at actuation, almost everyone else is bottom out.
I'm not sure what Cherry light springs equate to, but it should be mid to high 60's.
-
I think Zilent weights are less than the advertised weights, so 67 may not be too bad, more like 65 Korean.
The published weights for the Zeal switches are bottom out force, not actuation force. That is the difference.
What I mean is, people have reported that Zeal PC weights do not correspond exactly to their listed bottom-out weights.
So the switches are a little lighter than advertised. 62 may be 60, 65 may be 63, and so on.
I cannot tell you which line of switches that may refer to (V1 or V2), but I have read from end-users that Zeal tactile weights have been adjusted slightly for marketing purposes.
-
I am a bit heavy handed. For me, I'd be worried that resting my hands on home keys or on wasd would result in accidental presses. But like you, I wonder if the 67g are too strong.
I've got some of both coming. Get 10-20 of each kind and put some of them on your board and see what you'd like best before committing.
Which two did you order?
It's hard to say. The 62 G [which I have] can be very tactile, and that can be an issue. A highly-tactile switch with a weaker return could less to 'false' keypresses or tactile feedback.
The 67 is more tamed and well-rounded, but it may be heavy for someone used to Brown-like weights. It's a popular weight for Zilents, though. I think Zilent weights are less than the advertised weights, so 67 may not be too bad, more like 65 Korean.
I honestly think 65 may be a good compromise. I tried a handful. They didn't seem much different from the 62, a little less tactile, but honestly they may be easier to type on in the long-run.
With the cost of Zilents being what they are, I suggest you type on 4-10 of each switch for several minutes each, before soldering anything.
The board I have is hotswap so no issues with changing them out.
Getting a few 10 packs might not be a bad idea. I'd only pay for one extra round of shipping and whichever sets I don't like, I can put them on the keys I use the least like the number row.
Another idea I had was picking one switch weight and springs for the other weights. Do Zilents just have standard springs or do they have special profiles? For example, if I swap in a 67g spring, would that result in a normal 67g Zilent?
-
Zilents are among the most expensive MX switches in production. So you definitely want to be absolutely sure you have the right weight before ordering dozens of them. In that respect, buying a few 10 packs can actually save you money.
So I definitely recommend trying up to 10 switches of each weight in your hotswap keyboard. 10 switches is more than enough to test some words and the spacebar. Imagine yourself typing on them for an hour, when you test them.
I am not sure if Zilents have a special spring profile. I always thought they were pretty close to generic straight springs, and not progressive or slow or anything. I see people switching out with aftermarket, and they just use normal-profile springs.
The Zilent springs seem fine from a functional perspective. However, I highly, highly recommend lubing them. Because they can ping.
You can use aftermarket springs, all one weight as you have suggested. It should function fine, but it may feel a little different. If you find an aftermarket spring weight that you like, it should be okay for all the Zilent switches. I think that lubing the stock Zilent springs may be a safer bet. Try it out with a few.
-
I played around some more with the single switch testers (before committing to multiple packs) and did some blind tests where i shuffle them and see if I can tell the difference and pick based on feel alone.
- 62 - Still seems too light. See note below
- 65/67- Can tell the difference in tactility but only barely. Can't tell the difference in weight. A couple of times I thought the 65 was actually 67 and vice versa
- 78 - Can pretty easily tell this one, too heavy
I was actually leaning towards the 62 at one point because it's light and most tactile but one aspect I don't like is that it's harder for the key to return if you press off center on the cap (such as the edge) or at a slight angle. I plan on getting DSA caps at some point so I'm wondering if that'll make this characteristic worse. Another aspect of chicklet keys I like is that pressing anywhere on the cap, even in the corner or edge, will register and return.
-
My first board was gateron brown. Then I went for zilents v2 62g. They felt too light so I bought zealios v2 67g. 67g zealios are a lot more satisifying. As someone who used gateron brown(very light), I get used to zeal 67g quite well. They aren't heavy for me at all. In fact, I kinda want to try 78g but they are out of stocks. Thinking if I should get tx springs 80g for a swap
-
My first board was gateron brown. Then I went for zilents v2 62g. They felt too light so I bought zealios v2 67g. 67g zealios are a lot more satisifying. As someone who used gateron brown(very light), I get used to zeal 67g quite well. They aren't heavy for me at all. In fact, I kinda want to try 78g but they are out of stocks. Thinking if I should get tx springs 80g for a swap
It's exactly like soy sauce, The right amount is delicious, too little it tastes sour, too much and it's inedible,