ム is supposed to go on the pipe keys (R1 1u, R2 1.5u) as the ternary legend (bottom), where the chōonpu currently is.
The chōonpu sublegend, ー, should be moved to the quaternary (right) position on the -_ホー key in order to be consistent with modern ANSI-JP usage.
Would you say the sample set is exactly the same quality as SimpleJA?
This looks clean. Wish it had support for 40% though.
Hi, the proposed base kit seems to be missing ム and ロ sublegends altogether, and the ー sublegend is in the wrong position.
ム is supposed to go on the pipe keys (R1 1u, R2 1.5u) as the ternary legend (bottom), where the chōonpu currently is.
The chōonpu sublegend, ー, should be moved to the quaternary (right) position on the -_ホー key in order to be consistent with modern ANSI-JP usage.
ロ should be added in the form of a `~ロ key, which is also currently missing from the set.
See these references:Please also see GMK JIS WoB (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/760499929415286815/767750930484690985/Base-Kit.jpg) for an example of correct ANSI/JIS/ISO JP sublegend placement.
- Standard ANSI-JP layout (https://i.imgur.com/Me3Qwk1)
- Visual guide to katakana sublegends in ANSI-JP–based sets (https://i.imgur.com/jW8d1Wq.png)
- Examples of the above layout in use: 1 (https://www.amazon.com/JAPANESE-KATAKANA-NON-TRANSPARENT-BACKGROUND-Background/dp/B00KIFSYHS) 2 (https://www.4keyboard.com/japanese-keyboard-stickers/82-japanese-japanese-katakana-transparent-keyboard-stickers.html) 3 (https://discussions.apple.com/content/attachment/657706040) 4 (https://preview.redd.it/rjgre5uwsaa51.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=2abb883e1356b5e07dc53b38f24954014ea91f86)
On a separate note, if this set aims to be modern, the broken pipe legend ¦ should really be replaced with a full pipe |. See here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107649.msg2968898#msg2968898) for why. In short, the pipe keys produce | on all modern systems.
Since the topic of the ¥ legend (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108328.msg2950676#msg2950676) is also likely to come up, I'd like to say in advance that having ¥ as a base legend in this case is totally fine and accurate; in fact, it makes the set look more authentic, given the presence of Japanese legends on the modifiers.
Hope this helps. Best of luck with your set.
Thanks Konstantin for filling in some of the ANSI-JP specifics. Just one note to add about this: the current 1U ¥|ー key in the base kit is also used by JIS, so if it were modified to follow ANSI-JP standards as you suggest, the key as it currently stands would need to be added to the JIS kit. Currently a bottom row version of that key is available in the ISO/JIS kit, which is a non-standard placement for JIS (I presume it's intended for use with ISO).
Unfortunately, EnjoyPBT does not have the necessary tooling to make a meaningful 40 compat kit.
To put it as simply as possible, I didn't even know of the existence of ANSI-JP until mentioned in this thread.
I'll see if I can add in a compat kit, but I cannot guarantee that I can get it in due to a few overlapping reasons:
- The GB is slated for opening within a week due to KBDfans' scheduling and avoiding conflict with upcoming holidays.
- I am currently cripplingly busy with life, and am not sure if I can secure the time to rush in an edit before the GB opens.
- The main goal of this set is to preserve the vintage JIS styling (which carries back as far as the PC-8801 and the like) as much as possible, with minimum edits necessary to update them to modern JIS while while retrofitting a nearly identical styling to ANSI English legend positioning.
- Just about everyone I've seen respond to the keyset so far over the past 8 months (most info and kitting had been posted to Discord for ages) falls into one of two camps: Those looking for the overall aesthetic and would prefer sth that matches closer to the JIS counterpart in legending for that specific look while preserving ANSI English functionality/legend-matching to an extent, and those buying the JIS kit to go full JIS.
Is this gonna be the same keycaps as epbts ghost white caps? Is that what you mean by the non milky white? Because if so, this is IT those keycaps are so fantastic I've just been dying to see something dyesubed on them.It's their bright white basic color that's brighter than the milky white in their beige modifier keysets.
Change R4 1u -_ホ to -_ホー.Just about every keyboard that comes up with a quick search for "JIS キーボード" has =_ホ, including the diagram listed on the Wikipedia page for JIS keyboards, and there has been no complaints from the JP community regarding this matter from either SimpleJA or ModernJA.
Change R4 1u and R3 1.5u ¥¦ー to ¥|ム.Again, as described earlier, I am putting ANSI-US legending style with JIS-JP styling first.
Change R4 1u 追い焚き to `~ロ.Every JP person I've spoken with so far who found the former key is fine with it.
Change R1 1u _ロ to \_ロ.Just about every keyboard that comes up with a quick search for "JIS キーボード" has _ロ, including the diagram listed on the Wikipedia page for JIS keyboards, and there has been no complaints from the JP community regarding this matter from either SimpleJA or ModernJA.
The legend change I may be somewhat interested in, although personally I'd much rather purposely leave it broken as a historical reference to balance against the modern look.
- Change R1 1u ¥¦ー to R4 1u ¥|ー.
Just about every keyboard that comes up with a quick search for "JIS キーボード" has =_ホ, including the diagram listed on the Wikipedia page for JIS keyboards, and there has been no complaints from the JP community regarding this matter from either SimpleJA or ModernJA.
Again, as described earlier, I am putting ANSI-US legending style with JIS-JP styling first.
Every JP person I've spoken with so far who found the former key is fine with it.
I did similar with SimpleJA, leaving a small nod to those who come across it on a daily basis.
Just about every keyboard that comes up with a quick search for "JIS キーボード" has _ロ, including the diagram listed on the Wikipedia page for JIS keyboards, and there has been no complaints from the JP community regarding this matter from either SimpleJA or ModernJA.
The legend change I may be somewhat interested in, although personally I'd much rather purposely leave it broken as a historical reference to balance against the modern look.
The row change I will not do because this is the key for the ISO compat (not JIS) key position for ISO.
If you would like an ANSI-JP set, please buy another keyset, or wait until a future round where I may up the cost of a kit to add it in.
Q. What's with the Windows icons on the Windows keys? They don't match up between the prototype and kitting images, and I dislike the iconography either way.Just to clarify, the newer Windows 10 logo in the kitting image is the one that is being used?
A. They've been swapped out to the newer variant for production. For those who do not like the logo print, please use the 拡張機能 (extended functionality) legended keys as a drop-in replacement.
Q. What's with the Windows icons on the Windows keys? They don't match up between the prototype and kitting images, and I dislike the iconography either way.Just to clarify, the newer Windows 10 logo in the kitting image is the one that is being used?
A. They've been swapped out to the newer variant for production. For those who do not like the logo print, please use the 拡張機能 (extended functionality) legended keys as a drop-in replacement.
Anyone knows the color code for this set, I'm looking forward to mix this with my Kuro Shiro (color code GMK WS1)?
Anyone knows the color code for this set, I'm looking forward to mix this with my Kuro Shiro (color code GMK WS1)?
Kuro Shiro is close to WS1 and it looks like this is closer to WS2 or a "bright white"