geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: swagtronx on Wed, 16 December 2020, 23:29:07
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--GB delayed until late Feb./early March because I've been informed by JWK that they are not starting any new projects until after the Chinese New Year. I will be coordinating with vendors that still want to proxy and start getting everything finalized and in place, so that the GB is launched by all vendors simultaneously in a couple of months.
After speaking with Cobertt and a couple experienced vendors, it makes sense to us to delay now and then start the GB when JWK can commence work on the project, assuming it's successful. Thank you everyone for your interest and input!--
Introducing the Nebula Switch, a Prevail x Cobertt collab, this is our first switch from our upcoming Galaxy Series. Being avid fans of anything space related, we wanted to theme these switches after various entities found in the endless reaches of the universe. Cobertt is known from the MechGroupBuys (https://mechgroupbuys.com/) community and owner of Control On Caps (https://www.controloncaps.com/), he brings a decade of experience in the hobby. This switch will come in a full milky housing, in a custom colorway.
Additionally, we are commissioning new stem molds from Durock, these will be longer linear stems to further provide a nicer thock, similar to NK Cream or Halo stems. Stem length is just a hair longer than a Cream stem but shorter than a Halo stem. Lastly, these will come with 67g gold plated Durock progressive springs, these springs are lighter to start then get exponentially heavier from actuation to bottom out, to give that nice soft & bouncier bottom out.
Please fill out the IC form linked below. All feedback is welcome, good, bad and ugly, this is our first IC but I have thick skin and all criticism is welcome.
Renders by Lizcuits (https://www.instagram.com/lizcuits_design/)
(https://i.imgur.com/2i66sZM.png?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/qFxPZRs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/SvX3hWy.png)
IC Form (https://forms.gle/a3X2nrCV1RJvFJxa7) | Prevail Discord (https://discord.gg/kGj4G8U) | Prevail Key Co. (https://prevailkeyco.com/) | Cobertt's Discord (https://discord.gg/fzK6xDGt48) | Control On Caps (https://www.controloncaps.com/)
Nebula Switch Information
- Manufactured by Durock
- MOQ 100k,
price is being finalized but will be between .75-.80c each ($7.50-8.00 per 10 pack) 0.75c ea, or $7.50 per 10 pack retail price - Full milky housing, materials are PC top housing & nylon bottom housing
- Unique nebula purple colorway, dark purple with very tiny white specks to emulate a nebula seen in space
- New custom linear stem molds
- Durock 67g Progressive springs,
manually assembled in the factory so they are oriented correctly - Very light factory lube, can be lubed over
Vendors
US: Prevail Key Co. (https://prevailkeyco.com/)
CA: AlphaKeys (https://alphakeys.ca/)
UK: Prototypist (https://prototypist.net/)
Asia: Monstargear (https://www.monstargears.com/46)
EU: TBA
OCE: TBA
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Updates - 12.21.2020
- IC has been live for a bit now, as of this update there's been about 290 responses recorded.
- Majority of users that filled out the IC want to keep the 67g progressive spring, we will be keeping this weight.
- Switch will be sold in packs of 10 as this is what the majority of IC respondents wanted.
- For transparency, most do not want factory lube on this switch, there was a small but not insignificant number that doesn't care. We will still be moving forward with light factory lube on the switch that can be lubed over.
- Reason being, we are wanting the switch to be a good stock experience for enthusiasts, new and experienced, to enjoy without modding if they choose not to. Since it can be lubed over for those who will modify as they see fit,
we see no issues with this decision currently.
- We're discussing orientation of the progressive spring, we realize there's some debate that it may not matter enough to warrant a higher cost but on the other side of the coin, some vendors such as TKC abandoned their progressive spring idea due to orientation of the spring being unreliable. We haven't heard from TKC if they attempted manual spring installation or if this was due to machines being too unreliable to orient the springs correctly. Other vendors such as Thic Thock had their progressive springs in the marshmallow switch manually installed.
- If we choose to forego manual spring installation, this would drop the price to a firm .75c ea instead of the .80c price point that we're leaning heavily towards currently.
- Lastly, Durock/JWK will not let us use full nylon or full POM on the switch idea due to the former being exclusive to CK and the latter being too new for JWK to produce it in custom colors (they basically said no, not right now). So we're seeing if they're willing to do a nylon blend for the top housing, if not then we'll move forward with PC top housing/nylon bottom housing.
Updates - 12.23.2020
- We will not be doing manual spring installation, this will bring the price down to 0.75c per switch since orientation doesn't matter enough when most will be opening the switch up.
- Will have a disclaimer for this during the GB phase with imagery to show how to properly orient the spring manually.
- There still small margin for error for manual installation, not as much as machine assembled but some of the feedback mentioned not having manual installation to see if cost could be brought down.
- Added proxy vendors for CA, UK & Asia
To-Do
- Working with Lizcuits to try and get renders updated to more accurately reflect changes on the newer v2 stem and progressive spring. Thank you to Theremingoat and others for pointing these details out.
- Contact remaining vendors to proxy the switch in other regions.
- Confirm final details with Durock before moving to GB phase.
- Launch the GB simultaneously across all vendors.
Being so close to the holidays, we'll be eyeing to start the GB sometime in January assuming no hiccups between now and then. We're completely happy with the amount of responses and feedback gathered so far and a huge thank you to everyone that filled out the IC.
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please please nylon top and bottom, don't want anymore PC top nylon bottoms...
would it be possible to have the switch dry - no factory lube?
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oh pog, a linear that isn't a copy lol.
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Glad to see this isn’t another recolor, and that you’re going with a longer stem for that bottom out goodness. Would be so much better sounding if the top was nylon as well IMO.
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please please nylon top and bottom, don't want anymore PC top nylon bottoms...
would it be possible to have the switch dry - no factory lube?
Unfortunately, we asked about doing a full nylon switch, but we were told that the full nylon housings were a CannonKeys exclusive with their Lilac switch. The goal was for this switch to be usable right out of the package. For that reason we chose to use a light amount of lube straight from the factory. In my experience, with the light lube, you can lube right over with 205g0 or whatever your preference of lube is and have no issues. We appreciate the feedback!
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I'm ready to give you money now. In. Very happy to see such a unique linear. thank you.
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please please nylon top and bottom, don't want anymore PC top nylon bottoms...
would it be possible to have the switch dry - no factory lube?
Unfortunately, we asked about doing a full nylon switch, but we were told that the full nylon housings were a CannonKeys exclusive with their Lilac switch. The goal was for this switch to be usable right out of the package. For that reason we chose to use a light amount of lube straight from the factory. In my experience, with the light lube, you can lube right over with 205g0 or whatever your preference of lube is and have no issues. We appreciate the feedback!
Interesting! Thank you for addressing the feedback. Looking forward to more vendors being announced.
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Not a linear user, but good looking switch, good specs, and pretty colors? Hope it goes well! GLWIC :thumb:
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Do I have enough geekhack posts to get in this GB
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0.75-0.80 per switch is chonky
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That price is atrocious. We don't need more JWK linears on the market.
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That price is atrocious. We don't need more JWK linears on the market.
I'd bet the custom stem plays a role in this. Even then, cheaper than some linears like Tealios and same price as other ones like Inks. I'd be in for 100 of these
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That price is atrocious. We don't need more JWK linears on the market.
It's a bit high but it's not just a recolor. The base price on the switch, even at the high MOQ is higher for these reasons:
- The colorway is two separate colors, the milky dark purple and the white specs. From what we're being told, first the milky purple is done then the white specks are added during a 2nd process, so this raised the cost.
- New custom stem molds, as someone mentioned, also raised the cost.
- Progressive springs have to be oriented the correct way in the switch to work properly (not speaking down to anyone just explaining), so we're having all springs on these switches inserted manually by hand. So naturally, this raised the base cost of the switch.
Our goal is to have a stock switch that provides a nice thocky sound, pleasant typing experience and unique colorway, all stock and under $1 ea.
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That price is atrocious. We don't need more JWK linears on the market.
It's a bit high but it's not just a recolor. The base price on the switch, even at the high MOQ is higher for these reasons:
- The colorway is two separate colors, the milky dark purple and the white specs. From what we're being told, first the milky purple is done then the white specks are added during a 2nd process, so this raised the cost.
- New custom stem molds, as someone mentioned, also raised the cost.
- Progressive springs have to be oriented the correct way in the switch to work properly (not speaking down to anyone just explaining), so we're having all springs on these switches inserted manually by hand. So naturally, this raised the base cost of the switch.
Our goal is to have a stock switch that provides a nice thocky sound, pleasant typing experience and unique colorway, all stock and under $1 ea.
I’m wondering whether having that progressive spring actually makes sense, given that it influences the price considerably.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a big part of community members has their own “spring of choice”, which may include weight, manufacturer and type (linear / progressive / slow etc).
So the first thing I’d do to any switch is to swap the spring to TX 65g just because I’m used to those and I know they are good.
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That price is atrocious. We don't need more JWK linears on the market.
It's a bit high but it's not just a recolor. The base price on the switch, even at the high MOQ is higher for these reasons:
- The colorway is two separate colors, the milky dark purple and the white specs. From what we're being told, first the milky purple is done then the white specks are added during a 2nd process, so this raised the cost.
- New custom stem molds, as someone mentioned, also raised the cost.
- Progressive springs have to be oriented the correct way in the switch to work properly (not speaking down to anyone just explaining), so we're having all springs on these switches inserted manually by hand. So naturally, this raised the base cost of the switch.
Our goal is to have a stock switch that provides a nice thocky sound, pleasant typing experience and unique colorway, all stock and under $1 ea.
I’m wondering whether having that progressive spring actually makes sense, given that it influences the price considerably.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but a big part of community members has their own “spring of choice”, which may include weight, manufacturer and type (linear / progressive / slow etc).
So the first thing I’d do to any switch is to swap the spring to TX 65g just because I’m used to those and I know they are good.
Totally understand that and hopefully the other aspects of the switch are still appealing to everyone that plans (or would plan) on spring swapping. This is our idea to bring a marshmallow-like switch to market with the new stem and unique color. We did think about not doing progressives, but we feel this is the way to go with this project.
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I want dis
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The statement of a progressive spring being included really churns up a big question here:
Is Durock capable of installing progressive springs correctly? While I am dubious as to the claim that progressive springs are polar and require orientation that an assembly line might not be capable of doing on their own, TKC (who also uses JWK) had cut the progressive springs out of their fruit line due to an issue with orientation in factory.
As well, when you discuss custom molds, are you only talking about the stem or are you also talking about the housings?
Edit: I can actually read.
If springs are being installed by hand, why not offer to sell these in component pieces much like Gazzew has sold his Outemu Sky switches in the past in order to both save on costs and drive interest? I think currently a big hangup for a lot of people is this steep per-switch pricetag.
As well, will switches being going out to streamers, reviewers, etc. in advance of sale?
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The statement of a progressive spring being included really churns up a big question here:
Is Durock capable of installing progressive springs correctly? While I am dubious as to the claim that progressive springs are polar and require orientation that an assembly line might not be capable of doing on their own, TKC (who also uses JWK) had cut the progressive springs out of their fruit line due to an issue with orientation in factory.
As well, when you discuss custom molds, are you only talking about the stem or are you also talking about the housings?
Edit: I can actually read.
If springs are being installed by hand, why not offer to sell these in component pieces much like Gazzew has sold his Outemu Sky switches in the past in order to both save on costs and drive interest? I think currently a big hangup for a lot of people is this steep per-switch pricetag.
Unfortunately I have to go by their word that they can do manual assembly correctly with low rate of error, but it's a valid concern. I will be talking more with JWK about the issues TKC experienced and see if they can shed some light with specifics.
Also the component idea isn't bad at all, but in general we're trying to reach a broad audience with a switch that hopefully appeals to most people especially newcomers. They can get this switch (especially if inexperienced) and use them stock for what we're hoping is a pleasant typing experience right out the gate.
As the IC moves along, we'll definitely be looking at all feedback (good & bad! we're not soft) and posting updates.
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The statement of a progressive spring being included really churns up a big question here:
Is Durock capable of installing progressive springs correctly? While I am dubious as to the claim that progressive springs are polar and require orientation that an assembly line might not be capable of doing on their own, TKC (who also uses JWK) had cut the progressive springs out of their fruit line due to an issue with orientation in factory.
As well, when you discuss custom molds, are you only talking about the stem or are you also talking about the housings?
Edit: I can actually read.
If springs are being installed by hand, why not offer to sell these in component pieces much like Gazzew has sold his Outemu Sky switches in the past in order to both save on costs and drive interest? I think currently a big hangup for a lot of people is this steep per-switch pricetag.
As well, will switches being going out to streamers, reviewers, etc. in advance of sale?
To piggy back on Swag's response to this. We have thought about component pieces, as someone who spends a significant amount of time frankenswitching, I know I appreciated Gazzew's approach. It's something we can look further into. Thanks for the feedback, Theremingoat. We definitely appreciate it.
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I've been using creampacas with progressive springs for a few months now and they're fantastic switches. Having a stock option even at this price is great, and I'm really interested to see how they look in person.
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I hope these turn out as pretty in reality as they are in the renders. I love progressive springs, excited to try them with this stem/housing.
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Nice to hear it'll be a bit different from simply being another JWK linear clone.
I like the colourway, but I'll reserve judgment until I see prototypes. Wuque Studio's OA switches turned out to look completely different from initial renders.
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look I'll buy and frankenswitch anyways, but if there's components I'd probably get more. not gonna go much lighter than vint black/h1...
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Interested!!!
ps...filled out IC form
The weight is perfect, please don’t change anything about current model, keep long stem & 67g progressive spring! Great job on this unique switch too!
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Will these have the standard 4mm travel or reduced travel due to the longer stem? I am definitely a fan of the long stem sound profile but don't usually frankenswitch with them because they often reduce travel.
While 67g is not terribly heavy, my anecdotal experience with non-keeb people is that they dislike heavier-than-mainstream switches. I'm concerned about how much the pricing is affected by the progressive spring especially at the weight it's being offered at.
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i'd like a 62 gram version if at all possible ... i'm not a fan of 67 gram switches
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I am quite confused by the association of Holy Pandas and 'thock'.
Topre thocks, some Cherry MX switches within the right configuration can get thocky, Zilents in some cases can too. But I would definitely not describe Holy Pandas as being a thocky switch; they produce in the majorité of cases a higher pitched 'pop'.
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I am quite confused by the association of Holy Pandas and 'thock'.
Topre thocks, some Cherry MX switches within the right configuration can get thocky, Zilents in some cases can too. But I would definitely not describe Holy Pandas as being a thocky switch; they produce in the majorité of cases a higher pitched 'pop'.
I agree. As a tactile switch I feel they work better when on a solid base and allowed to click not thock.
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Will these have the standard 4mm travel or reduced travel due to the longer stem? I am definitely a fan of the long stem sound profile but don't usually frankenswitch with them because they often reduce travel.
While 67g is not terribly heavy, my anecdotal experience with non-keeb people is that they dislike heavier-than-mainstream switches. I'm concerned about how much the pricing is affected by the progressive spring especially at the weight it's being offered at.
I agree with the weight, but with progressives they start roughly 8-10g lighter at the key press and then get heavier from actuation to bottom out at an exponential rate (it's morning for me and I haven't had a lot of coffee, so if this inaccurate please by all means correct me). So they're nothing like slows, they won't feel as heavy to type on compared to a slow spring in an equivalent weight.
Also I just got a response about the travel distance since someone else asked about it, I'm being told travel distance will be reduced by about 0.5mm because of the stem. So roughly 3.5mm travel distance for this switch.
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Will be following this closely!
#lineargang
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[mention]Swagtronix [/mention] Please don’t change anything about the current switch setup I love it the way it is!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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those colors are amazing, im in just to put them in switch jars lol.
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those colors are amazing, im in just to put them in switch jars lol.
thats my job
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Please no long stem, it is not good from a design perspective. It puts pressure on one thin point of the switch
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Please no long stem, it is not good from a design perspective. It puts pressure on one thin point of the switch
It sounds dope though
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oh pog, a linear that isn't a copy lol.
I come back to this only to see that it seems the choices are either locked in or just... not great for what durock/JWK is capable of. I put my suggestions in the IC form, but it looks like nothing is changing, sad.
Might buy it for the housings, but materials say a different story.
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The orientation of progressive springs doesn't even matter.
The force that applies to the spring is the same either way.
Like yeah, if you're talking about competitive car suspensions in optimal scenarios, the tighter(softer) part of the spring would become a non-spring weight after compressing so it could matter.
but come on, it's just a spring that weighs nothing.
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oh pog, a linear that isn't a copy lol.
I come back to this only to see that it seems the choices are either locked in or just... not great for what durock/JWK is capable of. I put my suggestions in the IC form, but it looks like nothing is changing, sad.
Might buy it for the housings, but materials say a different story.
We're still leaving the IC up and have more responses trickling in. It's also close to the holidays, so we're not rushing through and combing through everything just yet.
That being said, we're pretty firm on most aspects of the switch but we still want to see what people within the community think. Doesn't mean we're going to immediately make changes when someone suggests something.
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Posted some updates, thanks everyone for the feedback so far.
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GIVE. ME. THE. LONGBOI. POLE.
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I didn't need a reason to spend more money but damnit I'm spending more money on these.
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love the look
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GB delayed a couple of months, please see top of the first post for details.
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any way to do a 62g version alongside the 67?
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Very interested. Will keep a look out for the GB when the time comes.
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I just found this. I love the look. Will def be keeping an eye out for this GB when it goes live.
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Any news on this? They're so cool