ne mod colored pipe avail?
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set) Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.
glwgb
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set) Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.
glwgb
I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
Second B in base makes a lot of sense, because you can now pick either the Extension kit or a Accent kit to have Alice support. Putting it in the Extension kit would have only strengthened your point in 'making the set expensive' as now people that wanted Alice with accent spacekeys would have had to purchase the Extension kit just for the B. So it is actually quite the contrary to what you claim it does.
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.
blah
I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.
So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
blah
I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.
So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
Take a breath and actually read Oblotzky's response. He's saying he would prefer to have one key but the decision was made to include more. That is not an admission of guilt of unprofessionalism like you're claiming, it's more keys. This is getting really hysterical at this point.
blah
I 100% agree that a set should only have one set of Caps Lock, but neither Krelbit nor I wanted to give in.
...
Apart from the Caps Lock situation, I believe this is very solid kitting.
So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
Take a breath and actually read Oblotzky's response. He's saying he would prefer to have one key but the decision was made to include more. That is not an admission of guilt of unprofessionalism like you're claiming, it's more keys. This is getting really hysterical at this point.
It's really not, just sheds even more light that these designers kit based on raw emotional response rather than logistics or consideration for the people supporting their businesses. It's factually bloated considering the lack of utility in the keys included. There was a compromise that neither were willing to make.
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? (...)
(...) these designers kit based on raw emotional response rather than logistics or consideration for the people supporting their businesses. It's factually bloated considering the lack of utility in the keys included. (...)
So because you and Krel couldn't come to a professional decision on how to kit your set consumers end up with more keys then they could ever hope to use, even citing that you feel you're putting out a lackluster product? Embarrassing.
Look at this base compared to the one I linked on drop and try again with a straight face. You either have little hope in this extraordinarily hyped up set to not perform and weren't willing to price it accordingly, or you want people to have a reason to buy the extension/accent kits from forced necessity. If you're including a key in base, people should be expected to get compatibility rather than getting half of a whole. You're disguising forcing people to buying more kits as "options" and I find it totally egregious.
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.
I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions
Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.
I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions
Something like what I linked previously (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set) with drop is, in my personal opinion, a fantastic base kit that has little bloat and provides most everybody with a solid price to key utilization ratio as far as physical compatibility is concerned.Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
In which case, please tell us what an ideal kitting would be for you
What's with this common response deflecting that I come off as knowing what's best? There are pages of people already asking for keys and kitting they would support, their voices are a bit more important. If they aren't being heard, I sure as hell won't be, and I have a good feeling you knew that when writing your post.
I don't have second intentions here mate -- I just truly want to know what your ideal kit is. For what it's worth, literally zero keysets support Brazilian ABNT or ABNT2 layouts, so I'm neutral in kitting discussions
Something like what I linked previously (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set) with drop is, in my personal opinion, a fantastic base kit that has little bloat and provides most everybody with a solid price to key utilization ratio as far as physical compatibility is concerned.Also I don't mean to put gasoline in your keyset fire, but:Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
What I mean by proactiveness is, why don't you design your own stuff with what you think is right?
By complaining only you will get nowhere. This hobby is shaped by the designers and vendors, who are responsible to develop and make viable new trends and products. This that you are doing not only makes designers not listen to feedback anymore but lessens you as a community member because you are doing absolutely ****all right now. You are just complaining; I'm sorry but fairly labeling the decisions made is a bunch of nothing. Your comments will just fall into the emptiness of the internet space. By only complaining you are just letting other people shape the hobby, and now your comment is that you don't like where it's headed. If your designs gather traction, you might shed light into a need that the user base has and we did not see. Prove the designers wrong.
A year and a half ago I was questioning why there aren't open source iniciatives in this hobby , specially because newbies like me at the time could learn and become more proficient in certain design aspects, contributing to the community. What I did was make PCBs and open source them. I did not send designers poopoo comments about they not open sourcing because they are afraid of copy or IP infringement. And today all PCB designers use methods and circuits that I developed, making PCBs safer and more reliable for everyone.
Take this comment as you will. I don't care nor will I whatever you think of me after this. This isn't a lecture, but I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmao
in for all kits, thanks for running this yall
What's the point of the extension kit if you're gonna put ISO in base? ISO is statistically used by such a small % of actual buyers that it needs a liferaft into the base kit? For what reason?
5 caps lock in base, alice b but without the bars, feedback is clearly worthless and won't swing designers to give the people that are paying them what they want; it's as if you're looking at the IC page with a filter that hides any posts with "pipe".
This might be the worst kitting to ever get to gb, considering that drop can offer this. (https://drop.com/buy/drop-gmk-white-on-black-katakana-custom-keycap-set) Comparatively, Muted should be slated to sell more sets than drop. It's offensive to offer consumers lackluster kitting and pricing for such a big hyped up gb like this one.
glwgb
I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmaoStrongly recommend this to be quoted on the first line of every single IC post.
in for all kits, thanks for running this yall
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmaoStrongly recommend this to be quoted on the first line of every single IC post.
in for all kits, thanks for running this yall
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
I don't think Dixie kitting will be widely accepted in EU. I personally don't like it, I prefer a basic terminal ISO in base kit like the kitting of GMK ThinkCaps.
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry ;)
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry ;)
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
What I liked about this hobby is that it's community members were very involved and keyboards were treated as what they are, a hobby. Everyone being very involved/receptible to feedback in projects is easily one of the very best/unique aspects of our hobby and honestly one of the more refreshing ones. Imo, it separated us from what it seems to be a more commercial/business/Corporation type of deal. Now as we have gone further along, that line has blurred. We're at the stage where everything is a cash grab because it has shown that it can be! Also, being a hive mind doesn't help (But that can't really be helped can it?). Personally, I don't use mod tilde/pipe so I can careless about those keys, but to leave them out is really strange and doesn't make any sense! Especially including macro keys with very little macro boards, but I get it, y'all love pwner and his projects. But this kitting isn't new (serika r2, space cadet, beta etc..). I can get why everyone is mad about it now because this is a keyset everyone has wanted for a long time now, but this is really designer preference. If they do no prefer mod colored alpha keys, they don't have to support it. With that being said, it can also go the other way around and you can choose not to support them! Either way, I'm all in. Glad this made a comeback
While I don't agree on some of the choices made for this keyset, I still think it's such an iconic set that I needed to get it! In for a base kit, ext, and cyan/purple mods. :)
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qM1qTng.png)
I love when I have to do literally nothing yet the topic stays up at the top all day. Thanks folks :thumb:
I truly believe you are a seasoned user that is very active and you are wasting your potential doing this.
It's incredible how people can take other's criticism over a product and turn it personal. It's not really in my nature do use my free time to do something I feel is unimportant, useless, or not fun. Vendors can do better. Don't you concern yourself with my potential.
so whats so bad about this kitting cause i just use a normie layout (tsangan 60) and dont really see whats missing cause i dont use more uncommon layouts and genuinely curious about all the negativity towards the compat
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
So would you prefer R4 and R5 be included in base? Because in my opinion that is silly.
If you wanted just R4 I could just have easily said the designer is forcing R4 upon us.
This is separate from the mod tilde issue, the designers clearly prefer R5 and it's just as much a design decision as someone chosing the colors on their set when they're creating it.
Edit: there was at least 1, if not 2 major revisions during the IC phase, far bigger changes than I see for most ICs posted in the last 6 months or so. I know because at least 3/4 of my complaints with the first proposed kit were addressed with the final offering. Of course I'm still not completely happy with it like removing F13 from the base that was in the initial proposed revision and moving it to a child kit, but I'll vote with my wallet and simply not buy that child kit.
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/qM1qTng.png)
Meanwhile, Reddit's opinion of 80082 kitting...$205 if you want ISO and Numpad with base.
(Attachment Link)
Your original post will stay but I'll edit this to stay up to date with your new one, hope that's alright.
I am being proactive by fairly labeling the decisions made for this run in the hopes that us consumers understand that we can be treated better. Voting with my wallet isn't enough for this, these designers have shown in the past they will strongarm sets to include or not include what they feel is appropriate based on emotional response, even with olive branches to try and appeal those situations. This can lead to a devastating cycle of designers picking and choosing what they feel is best, rather than supporting consumers who know what THEY want. With this comes completely ignored userbases that would have supported them otherwise, and this has historically happened before!
I'm not here to be lectured about what is considered toxic when it comes to my criticism. If the designers won't bother to listen to initial feedback from their very customers, it's no shock that they choose to ignore me too. But hopefully other people who feel ignored by these designers can see that things could be better.
I was talking about this with someone else in Man of Interest's discord. A lot of people are used to the way this hobby was just a couple years ago. It was so small for so long that we all felt entitled to make demands as consumers because we could. Vendors needed us to make sure the GB's reached MOQ. As the hobby has grown, this has become less and less true. It's a natural progression and unfortunate growing pain. As vendors grow they gain more freedom to create the things that they want. In this process, we as consumers lose some freedom. It's happening in subtle ways that you might not have noticed already. For instance: NK65. Wonderful budget board, zero input from the community. We (the consumer) didn't get a choice in colors, case materials, plate materials, mounting style, etc. And why should we have any right to? What other consumer-retailer dynamic allows for serious input that results in change?
And honestly this kitting isn't even that bad. Of course if any given base kit is missing keys that you as an individual want, it will never hold value. Dixie runs sets that only cost $30 less than Muted R2 and provide you with MUCH LESS compatibility and MUCH LESS value but those seem to sell fine. Dixie has the sales numbers to prove it. That should have been a clear indicator that we as consumer's don't really have any bargaining chips when it comes to kitting. That's not a critique of Dixie or capitalism. It's just the way she goes. Apologies for the long post, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. In for base kit and accents. GLWGB
Tbh, I don't think that is a good example. There is a big difference in selling a product based on your own decisions and an IC open for feedback. If there is a lot of feedback about a specific thing, there seems to be sufficient interest for you to either think about it or give a reasonable answer, not just ignore it away. I don't think that two extra keys in the base kit would have hurt anyone.
Next time just ask konstantin to do the kitting for you, because the man clearly knows what's up and sell the set based on your own design philosophy. That way there shouldn't be any discussions.
I think the kits are well put together, except for the forced R5 bottom row, stupid amount of caps lock and missing mod tilde and mod pipe.
Anyway, this GB will be a success, because of all the hype. I just hope this kitting style doesn't turn into a trend.
Best of luck to the GB runners!
This just sounds like dissonance due to outdated terms. They were "Interest Checks" when vendors needed every consumer they could get. Vendors no longer need us, so perhaps we should update the language. I do agree that there is another issue of standardization. I would prefer if GMK themselves set the standard for what a base kit is. That would truly leave discussion off the table. I honestly think Dixie's style of kitting will become the most widely accepted, so you won't have to worry ;)
I very rarely drop in around these parts anymore, but I couldn't help but notice this as I was wondering why nobody had re-run it since the hobby exploded. Had a very quick look at the last page of the IC and noticed you guys mentioned JChan expects to be paid for this design...
Really, of all people!!?? And to see you actually agreed to paying him! I won't get into the whole debate of whether people can copyright colourways or not as it has been done to death (no prizes for guessing which side of the argument I lie on). For those newer to the hobby I suggest reading about his history and considering if he is someone you wish to (indirectly) support. Have a look through the keyclack vendor child boards on this very website, MC Rebirth and M65-A being two threads that spring to mind off the top of my head. There are people that still have not received items or a refund from a buy that finished 5 years ago... I'm sure most people won't give a **** and just want their caps, which is understandable, but I think it is something that really needs to be pointed out as I was pretty flabbergasted to read this, the sheer audacity of the guy.
Purple ESC is missing...?
I would like to state that the International kit has hit my personal MOQ, it'll get made. Just in case anyone was thinking of backing out or so because of that :)
I would like to state that the International kit has hit my personal MOQ, it'll get made. Just in case anyone was thinking of backing out or so because of that :)
I very rarely drop in around these parts anymore, but I couldn't help but notice this as I was wondering why nobody had re-run it since the hobby exploded. Had a very quick look at the last page of the IC and noticed you guys mentioned JChan expects to be paid for this design...
Really, of all people!!?? And to see you actually agreed to paying him! I won't get into the whole debate of whether people can copyright colourways or not as it has been done to death (no prizes for guessing which side of the argument I lie on). For those newer to the hobby I suggest reading about his history and considering if he is someone you wish to (indirectly) support. Have a look through the keyclack vendor child boards on this very website, MC Rebirth and M65-A being two threads that spring to mind off the top of my head. There are people that still have not received items or a refund from a buy that finished 5 years ago... I'm sure most people won't give a **** and just want their caps, which is understandable, but I think it is something that really needs to be pointed out as I was pretty flabbergasted to read this, the sheer audacity of the guy.
Lel. Just read that, he requested to be paid and it resulted in a price increase. Can those funds just be redirected to a KeyClack reimbursement fund.
How does muted look compared to classic beige?
dvorcol is a true god
i am proud to be the owner of 8 of those 13 international kits.
bro if you don't like this just make your own keyset lmaoStrongly recommend this to be quoted on the first line of every single IC post.
Dixie aka omnitype kind of kitting only applies to those, who are not new, but also not very old in community (basically those who joined during quarantine) and which buys two kits and goes out of hobby, but for those who are here longer want their keysets to be more flexible and new people coming from fullsize want numpad, because they are searching for numpad macropads and stuff.
Dixie aka omnitype kind of kitting only applies to those, who are not new, but also not very old in community (basically those who joined during quarantine) and which buys two kits and goes out of hobby, but for those who are here longer want their keysets to be more flexible and new people coming from fullsize want numpad, because they are searching for numpad macropads and stuff.
Id argue that there are a decent amount of people who have been in the hobby for a significant amount of time who appreciate the cheaper price that comes along with a smaller kit. I'm one of them. Ive got a lot of boards, I need a lot of keysets. None of them need numpad, and usually 10-15 dollars price difference is all it takes for me to opt out of getting a set.
I do however completely agree with you when it comes to mod pipe/tilde. It's a shame they arent included here. Maybe next round.
Ne update?
any update?
Project Last Updated Status GMK Muted 2 01 Aug 2022 Expected to leave GMK first week of August
any update?
it's finally here :-X
it's finally here :-XLooks great, love the combo with the keypad