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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Leopard223 on Thu, 28 January 2021, 02:25:33
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Am I doing something wrong or is it just a myth that no one admits to be unreal?
Tried my luck with various stabs already, Genuine cherry plate, Everglide PCB\Plate, both with lithium grease or dielectric grease.
Stabs sits snug on the plate, wire is even, lubed properly, works for couple of minutes and back to just slight ticking.
Every guide is the same, yet their stabs are perfect forever? I can't belive Taehatypes has perfect stabs with his guide especially when using Krytox 205g0.
Maybe I'm wrong, or just doing something wrong, anyone has an idea? currently using Everglide plate mount stabilizers.
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Idk all the latest stabs i bought have some rattle expect the pre retooled Cherry stab ins. They are the only stabs i have that are 0 rattle at all.
Also don't follow Taehaetypes lubing guide unless you are rich and can buy unlimited Krytox 205 supply. Better off using superlube.
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Tahae has more than one guide, the older one(?) uses Superlube Dielectric.
I have several sets of generic Cherry style and several sets of authentic Cherry/GMK, none rattle.
I use Superlube Dielectric, you want to all but fill the hole with thick lube, don't put it against the tube and squeeze but don't just lightly brush the walls as some will lead you to believe, on stab wires you want that thing to have a lot in it, slop it in there and don't be shy. Then dip the wire ends into the tube of lube to get more on that and make sure it too is coated entirely. Also use thick lube on the stab pivots.
For plastic on plastic you want either 205 or Finish Line Fluoro Extreme, which is about 10% thinner, do not use oil, you want grease, brush this on lightly, you don't need a lot. Don't forget to bandaid mod, also coated with 205 or Flouro. Don't use Dielectric since it will be too sticky for this purpose.
Thick lube for plastic on metal, thin for plastic on plastic.
You can get twice as much (or more) for half the price of Krytox. Are they identical, no but these are really really close for a fraction of the cost, even with Prime shipping. I also have a lead on some that may be even closer but I haven't researched it enough yet. Stop buying lubes for extreme conditions, we aren't going into space, running the Dakar or eating it, it's about the easiest conditions lube can hope for.
One last note on spacebar stabs...
I have seen them rub/scrap the plate, case or pcb and sound like a rattle. You may need a touch of lube there, or try putting heat shrink over the wire (shrink and then lube). The shrink will eliminate metal on metal but also dampen any harmonics passing through it. I wouldn't do this unless you see or hear an issue as it will do almost nothing in most instances but when it works it works.
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Tahae has more than one guide, the older one(?) uses Superlube Dielectric.
I have several sets of generic Cherry style and several sets of authentic Cherry/GMK, none rattle.
I use Superlube Dielectric, you want to all but fill the hole with thick lube, don't put it against the tube and squeeze but don't just lightly brush the walls as some will lead you to believe, on stab wires you want that thing to have a lot in it, slop it in there and don't be shy. Then dip the wire ends into the tube of lube to get more on that and make sure it too is coated entirely. Also use thick lube on the stab pivots.
For plastic on plastic you want either 205 or Finish Line Fluoro Extreme, which is about 10% thinner, do not use oil, you want grease, brush this on lightly, you don't need a lot. Don't forget to bandaid mod, also coated with 205 or Flouro. Don't use Dielectric since it will be too sticky for this purpose.
Thick lube for plastic on metal, thin for plastic on plastic.
You can get twice as much (or more) for half the price of Krytox. Are they identical, no but these are really really close for a fraction of the cost, even with Prime shipping. I also have a lead on some that may be even closer but I haven't researched it enough yet. Stop buying lubes for extreme conditions, we aren't going into space, running the Dakar or eating it, it's about the easiest conditions lube can hope for.
One last note on spacebar stabs...
I have seen them rub/scrap the plate, case or pcb and sound like a rattle. You may need a touch of lube there, or try putting heat shrink over the wire (shrink and then lube). The shrink will eliminate metal on metal but also dampen any harmonics passing through it. I wouldn't do this unless you see or hear an issue as it will do almost nothing in most instances but when it works it works.
I pretty much agree with everything you've said except "don't forget to bandaid mod". IME the bandaid mod really does nothing as the stab sliders do not hit off the PCB with any clipped stabs. Wodan proved this in one of his YT videos years ago. Also the band aid mod is super redundant since if you want a cushioned bottom out that's what the little legs on Cherry stabs are for. Not to mention for all intents & purposes you just put a dust/hair/crumb magnet under your stabs.
To answer OP I think not filling the back of the slider where you can see the end of the wire with lube is your issue. It will help make your stabs last much longer before any rattle or ticks reappear. As far as stabs go I personally use just 205g0 on them & make sure to get a good bit inside of the slider where the wire goes & they usually hold up very well. At least a good 10 months to a year of fairly heavy before I'll need to refresh them. Sure rattle will come back over time, but IME just adding some more lube to the wire hole in the slider takes care of it for a good amount of time. I'd imagine after so many years pulling the stabs, wiping them off, & completely relubing may be needed. Although I have builds pushing 6 years old now that I haven't had to do that yet.
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Tahae has more than one guide, the older one(?) uses Superlube Dielectric.
I have several sets of generic Cherry style and several sets of authentic Cherry/GMK, none rattle.
I use Superlube Dielectric, you want to all but fill the hole with thick lube, don't put it against the tube and squeeze but don't just lightly brush the walls as some will lead you to believe, on stab wires you want that thing to have a lot in it, slop it in there and don't be shy. Then dip the wire ends into the tube of lube to get more on that and make sure it too is coated entirely. Also use thick lube on the stab pivots.
For plastic on plastic you want either 205 or Finish Line Fluoro Extreme, which is about 10% thinner, do not use oil, you want grease, brush this on lightly, you don't need a lot. Don't forget to bandaid mod, also coated with 205 or Flouro. Don't use Dielectric since it will be too sticky for this purpose.
Thick lube for plastic on metal, thin for plastic on plastic.
You can get twice as much (or more) for half the price of Krytox. Are they identical, no but these are really really close for a fraction of the cost, even with Prime shipping. I also have a lead on some that may be even closer but I haven't researched it enough yet. Stop buying lubes for extreme conditions, we aren't going into space, running the Dakar or eating it, it's about the easiest conditions lube can hope for.
One last note on spacebar stabs...
I have seen them rub/scrap the plate, case or pcb and sound like a rattle. You may need a touch of lube there, or try putting heat shrink over the wire (shrink and then lube). The shrink will eliminate metal on metal but also dampen any harmonics passing through it. I wouldn't do this unless you see or hear an issue as it will do almost nothing in most instances but when it works it works.
Thanks for the reply!
I use Permatex Dielectric grease, I apply it by coating the wire, inserting it to the stem (and a bit in the wire insert), then coat it again and assembling the stab.
I don't fill it up as I found it to deplace outside and cause the stab to be slugghish.
For plastic on plastic I left it dry as I'm still waiting for some Tribosys 3204 I've ordered, could that also make a rattle sound, seems logical but the stems should have pretty wide clearance afaik? in the past I've used lithium grease on everything but I dont think I should use it anymore..
As for other potential causes, the spacebar is very falt, the spacebar and the stabs dont seem have any clearance issues, tried shrink tube but the stem is too tight and the wire is thick.
The rattle that drives me crazy is the slight 0.1mm pretavel 'tick' you have if you slightly push one side, could it be lack of grease with the stem hitting the stab housing?
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I pretty much agree with everything you've said except "don't forget to bandaid mod". IME the bandaid mod really does nothing as the stab sliders do not hit off the PCB with any clipped stabs. Wodan proved this in one of his YT videos years ago. Also the band aid mod is super redundant since if you want a cushioned bottom out that's what the little legs on Cherry stabs are for. Not to mention for all intents & purposes you just put a dust/hair/crumb magnet under your stabs.
To answer OP I think not filling the back of the slider where you can see the end of the wire with lube is your issue. It will help make your stabs last much longer before any rattle or ticks reappear. As far as stabs go I personally use just 205g0 on them & make sure to get a good bit inside of the slider where the wire goes & they usually hold up very well. At least a good 10 months to a year of fairly heavy before I'll need to refresh them. Sure rattle will come back over time, but IME just adding some more lube to the wire hole in the slider takes care of it for a good amount of time. I'd imagine after so many years pulling the stabs, wiping them off, & completely relubing may be needed. Although I have builds pushing 6 years old now that I haven't had to do that yet.
Thanks for the reply!
I think it depends on the brand of stabilizers, with my current ones I've put a bandaid on the spacebar just for the heck of it and I'm unsure if it makes a difference, but I could definitly feel genuine Cherry stabs hit the PCB.
When you say the back of the slider you mean the side where it clips to the plate? I'm using dielectric grease and filling it up will cause it to displace to the housing and make it slugghish, I will try adding more and see if it will make a difference.
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I pretty much agree with everything you've said except "don't forget to bandaid mod". IME the bandaid mod really does nothing as the stab sliders do not hit off the PCB with any clipped stabs. Wodan proved this in one of his YT videos years ago. Also the band aid mod is super redundant since if you want a cushioned bottom out that's what the little legs on Cherry stabs are for. Not to mention for all intents & purposes you just put a dust/hair/crumb magnet under your stabs.
It may depend on who makes the stabs as to whether they hit the pcb or not, not all are the same. My Cherry/GMK do in the GMMK as do the stock stabs on my Nk65, both are plate mount so maybe that also makes a difference.
As for a dust magnet, the plate seals off most of the pcb, there should be very little dust able to make it all the way down there and then magically find that place. If you're concerned you could cover the exposed slots with tape and seal it off entirely but I wouldn't bother as it's not a big deal. This goes double on hot swap boards where you can easily just disassemble and clean it later, it's not like it will be an issue in a matter of weeks or even months.
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I don't fill it up as I found it to deplace outside and cause the stab to be slugghish.
You don't want it to squish out but you do want it very full.
Too many underfill them but I'm not sure this is the problem after all.
For plastic on plastic I left it dry as I'm still waiting for some Tribosys 3204 I've ordered, could that also make a rattle sound, seems logical but the stems should have pretty wide clearance afaik? in the past I've used lithium grease on everything but I dont think I should use it anymore..
This may be most of the problem, this does need lube as they can bang around in there as they travel.
Lithium is plastic safe so it's fine, it just doesn't last as long as silicone (which is like glitter, it never goes away). You're not on the wrong track, your stabs are just incomplete.