Post by: sabomov on Fri, 12 February 2021, 12:57:15
Hello, Geekhack!
IC Form (https://forms.gle/rDBXPLXU15CHEJRg8)
About me:
My name’s Max, I’m from Moscow. I started out in this hobby a year ago, and after studying up on custom keyboards for half a year, I didn’t find anything on the market that suited me perfectly and fit my ideal for a keyboard.
As it happens, I work at a metalworking facility and have access to industrial equipment.
About keyboard case and mount:
Everyone seems used to standard mounts, and variations on those are rare - not to mention truly novel ideas. So I started to think about a non-standard construction of popular mounts.
I put my engineering and visualization skills to work and started inventing.
The result was a method I called “BACKSIDE MOUNT”.
The plate is slid into rails in the sides of the case and is fixed in place by the back wall. I couldn’t compare the feeling from my solution to any mount on the market.
Two prototypes were completed in six months. That entire time was spent testing, and - luckily - I couldn’t find any issues with the design.
That led me here. I want to show you the fruits of my labor along with a few renders of the case.
About materials:
Centerpiece of the case and back wall - Aluminium
4 mm. plate - POM
Weight - Brass
Top and bottom of the case - PC
About prototype:
The main features here are perfect sound and zero flex. That’s why the plate is 4mm. thick.
The first prototype should be finished in March. The current plan is to use the HS60 PCB, but a custom PCB may be commissioned if enough demand is there.
Renders:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786603_73bfaa1a90_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dMi)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936474586_f41f5fece8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB5Ki5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586057_f0d8f61dde_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jqZ)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786588_03fdb59f2b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dM3)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786518_f88cf1c7bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dKQ)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586102_2d0d8bb358_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jrL)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586152_57a1b1a751_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jsC)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936474666_5e8a9db7e8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB5Kjs)
Prototype:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237299851_04c58e8c53_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4Eyaz)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505888_89899689e6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBpW)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238361860_12e7369f6a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4KZS5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505903_94db7a9018_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBqc)
Typing:
TYPING (https://youtu.be/8329v9HFEhw)
PCB Compound;
Fixed layout - Tsangan
ESD Protection
USB C to USB C connection support
No flex cuts
No RGB underglow
No RGB backlight
QMK/VIA support
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238074904_805ef15396_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4Jwyy)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238361840_54282c9e7a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4KZRJ)
Second Prototype Backside Mount:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014412_cf59a7543c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTyy)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014317_5596465e5c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTwV)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50939211333_8a816e1a72_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBjLQn)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50939908391_8085ea44bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBom3B)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014347_c7f84474d0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTxr)
Thanks for checking out my IC and have a nice day!
IC Form (https://forms.gle/rDBXPLXU15CHEJRg8)
About me:
My name’s Max, I’m from Moscow. I started out in this hobby a year ago, and after studying up on custom keyboards for half a year, I didn’t find anything on the market that suited me perfectly and fit my ideal for a keyboard.
As it happens, I work at a metalworking facility and have access to industrial equipment.
About keyboard case and mount:
Everyone seems used to standard mounts, and variations on those are rare - not to mention truly novel ideas. So I started to think about a non-standard construction of popular mounts.
I put my engineering and visualization skills to work and started inventing.
The result was a method I called “BACKSIDE MOUNT”.
The plate is slid into rails in the sides of the case and is fixed in place by the back wall. I couldn’t compare the feeling from my solution to any mount on the market.
Two prototypes were completed in six months. That entire time was spent testing, and - luckily - I couldn’t find any issues with the design.
That led me here. I want to show you the fruits of my labor along with a few renders of the case.
About materials:
Centerpiece of the case and back wall - Aluminium
4 mm. plate - POM
Weight - Brass
Top and bottom of the case - PC
About prototype:
The main features here are perfect sound and zero flex. That’s why the plate is 4mm. thick.
The first prototype should be finished in March. The current plan is to use the HS60 PCB, but a custom PCB may be commissioned if enough demand is there.
Renders:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786603_73bfaa1a90_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dMi)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936474586_f41f5fece8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB5Ki5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586057_f0d8f61dde_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jqZ)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786588_03fdb59f2b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dM3)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50935786518_f88cf1c7bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB2dKQ)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586102_2d0d8bb358_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jrL)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936586152_57a1b1a751_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB6jsC)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936474666_5e8a9db7e8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kB5Kjs)
Prototype:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237299851_04c58e8c53_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4Eyaz)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505888_89899689e6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBpW)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238361860_12e7369f6a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4KZS5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505903_94db7a9018_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBqc)
Typing:
TYPING (https://youtu.be/8329v9HFEhw)
PCB Compound;
Fixed layout - Tsangan
ESD Protection
USB C to USB C connection support
No flex cuts
No RGB underglow
No RGB backlight
QMK/VIA support
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238074904_805ef15396_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4Jwyy)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238361840_54282c9e7a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4KZRJ)
Second Prototype Backside Mount:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014412_cf59a7543c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTyy)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014317_5596465e5c_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTwV)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50939211333_8a816e1a72_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBjLQn)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50939908391_8085ea44bf_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBom3B)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50940014347_c7f84474d0_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kBoTxr)
Thanks for checking out my IC and have a nice day!
Post by: Ireris on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:10:07
Post by: Alejo1707 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:25:50
Post by: sabomov on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:32:08
Rama will complain for those X's. I like the looks, but 400 is steep indeed for PC.Price not final. I think price will be 350-400$ with PCB.
Post by: GraffitiDecos on Fri, 12 February 2021, 13:37:53
That being said, 60% isnt for me, but GLWIC!
Post by: Livid on Fri, 12 February 2021, 14:51:20
I, for one, like that there is some new ideas coming into the hobby. For those quick to say '400 USD for PC..' please read the post again and have a look at the renders. It's a PC shell, with aluminum inner casing with rails as a mounting system as well as a brass plate. I don't believe that that 350-400 (including PCB) is outlandish given the different materials, engineering and labour that I assume will be required.^ also this
i'm really into this, new mounting systems are always exciting and i love pc boards ;D
Post by: wencan008 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 15:36:46
why are people under the impression that pc should be significantly cheaper than aluminum?
Because think plastic = cheap, which as a raw material, sure, but PC is a pain in the ass to machine, and this isn't injection molded. The price seems reasonable enough to me.
Also OP, why a 4mm plate and not a 5mm plate? The 4mm plate would still leave a 1mm gap between the bottom of the plate and the top of the pcb
Post by: sabomov on Fri, 12 February 2021, 15:44:02
I find it difficult to answer this question :) In March, we will start making a prototype. I can make a 5mm plate and test it, but I don't think there will be much difference.why are people under the impression that pc should be significantly cheaper than aluminum?Also OP, why a 4mm plate and not a 5mm plate? The 4mm plate would still leave a 1mm gap between the bottom of the plate and the top of the pcb
Post by: Chippy on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:15:12
Post by: DeMechanica on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:32:17
Rama will complain for those X's. I like the looks, but 400 is steep indeed for PC.
They might complain, sure, but from a non-lawyer’s perspective, I’m pretty sure that the symbol is too generic for them to trademark and for it to be considered “distinctive”.
Post by: jaxball30 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:39:48
Post by: lush_bunny on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:40:53
Also how's the zero flex? I like some flex on my boards because hard and rigid typing feels are too harsh on my fingers and they make me tired of typing quicker.
Either way, GLWIC!
Post by: jaxball30 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 18:50:56
Post by: firewrath9 on Fri, 12 February 2021, 19:02:34
Post by: steebs on Fri, 12 February 2021, 20:01:04
Post by: sabomov on Fri, 12 February 2021, 22:45:56
This interesting, but I have a few questions. You slide both the plate the pcb into the rails, right? I'm having a hard time visualizing it for the plate alone without also thinking soldering would be torture.
slide only plate. I will show the mount in the prototype photos. the prototype will start in March. all news will be added to the thread.
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 13 February 2021, 09:03:09
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 13 February 2021, 11:48:17
Oh so there's no proto yet Ok I was going to ask how it feelI have two prototypes. the mount system is the same. they are without polycarbonate parts.
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 13 February 2021, 13:31:22
Post by: treeleaf64 on Sat, 13 February 2021, 17:08:34
Oh so there's no proto yet Ok I was going to ask how it feelI have two prototypes. the mount system is the same. they are without polycarbonate parts.
Thank you bro I quite like it . it's an interesting design
Post by: Zanhana on Sat, 13 February 2021, 17:17:44
that said, if it slides into place on all four sides of the plate, what differentiates this from basically being a sandwich mount?
Post by: zoo on Sat, 13 February 2021, 20:58:15
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 13 February 2021, 22:50:37
that said, if it slides into place on all four sides of the plate, what differentiates this from basically being a sandwich mount?
the plate is not tightly clamped between the two halves of the case. back panel assembly gives more design options. There is an opportunity to develop the idea of a mount.
Post by: DeMechanica on Sun, 14 February 2021, 04:07:14
Post by: powwu on Sun, 14 February 2021, 09:34:11
Price point is OK, CNCed PC is difficult to do correctly.
You use an existing PCB, which is a huge thumbs up for me. It makes replacement PCBs so much easier if anything goes south.
4mm plate, wow that's thick. Zero flex isn't conventionally "good" feeling,but with the right pairing I think this could work. People like CF plates, after all.
MULTIPLE PROTOTYPES!! Amazing. You love to see it.
Overall, I'm excited for this. It's not for me personally, because I'm not the biggest fan of polycarbonate, but I love this design and will be keeping up with it. Big GLWIC
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 14 February 2021, 12:00:32
For what it's worth, bazh did some rail mount designs back in 2015 (Weaven). It wasn't aimed towards rigidity like yours is, but it might be worth talking to him about his experiences with the mount.
Also, is the inner metal cage suspended within the polycarbonate outer case, or is it making contact with the brass/polycarbonate at the bottom? If it's suspended, I reckon that'll have a much larger effect on the acoustics than the mount itself.
Post by: sabomov on Sun, 14 February 2021, 12:29:59
Also, is the inner metal cage suspended within the polycarbonate outer case, or is it making contact with the brass/polycarbonate at the bottom? If it's suspended, I reckon that'll have a much larger effect on the acoustics than the mount itself.
No, the case is packed tightly, no backlash, no gaps, levitation, or anything else.
There were no experiments or calculations, just an idea that I wanted to implement. The acoustic properties associated with the difference in materials turned out to be just a nice bonus and the very sound I was looking for turned out to be accidental.
Post by: R4YN3 on Sun, 14 February 2021, 15:59:44
Rama will complain for those X's.
These look nothing like RAMA Xs, and it is not like RAMA owns the letter X.
I think this board looks very interesting. I am a bit unsure of the zero flex as I quite like super flex. But interested to try it out at the very least.
Post by: joshuarubin on Fri, 26 February 2021, 11:12:39
Post by: mangeHD on Fri, 26 February 2021, 16:50:51
good luck with this run, it is a pretty nice looking board!
Post by: yukiburzm on Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:13:16
Post by: sabomov on Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:30:18
honestly this looks like a pretty cool idea, however i would like to propose one thing, have you compared putting cuts around the spacebar area to make the spacebar less intrusive to not having cuts there, i that is something i have noticed people either like or dislike, i was just wondering if you have tested it at all or if you have just decided you like the more intrusive style of spacebar.
good luck with this run, it is a pretty nice looking board!
everything is simple. grooves in the body and wall. a plate is inserted into these grooves. the wall covers the body and is screwed to the body with two screws. milling tolerance does not exceed 0.10mm. the body is assembled tightly, without backlash
Post by: sabomov on Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:33:10
backside mounting looks awesome. I love the flashy seams on the sides, too! I could probably afford this if it was 200$, Might have to leave it to the big spenders unfortunately : (
I tested this mount for half a year. friends who tried typing on my first prototypes received only positive feedback on the sound and feel.
Post by: mangeHD on Mon, 01 March 2021, 02:34:46
Feel like you replied to the wrong comment here, didn't exactly answer my question.honestly this looks like a pretty cool idea, however i would like to propose one thing, have you compared putting cuts around the spacebar area to make the spacebar less intrusive to not having cuts there, i that is something i have noticed people either like or dislike, i was just wondering if you have tested it at all or if you have just decided you like the more intrusive style of spacebar.
good luck with this run, it is a pretty nice looking board!
everything is simple. grooves in the body and wall. a plate is inserted into these grooves. the wall covers the body and is screwed to the body with two screws. milling tolerance does not exceed 0.10mm. the body is assembled tightly, without backlash
Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Raptor_N60 on Mon, 01 March 2021, 08:19:26
Post by: Iliekbrowns on Mon, 01 March 2021, 09:43:37
Post by: bakerozee on Mon, 15 March 2021, 01:13:17
Post by: IAmAScientistIRL on Mon, 15 March 2021, 04:59:07
Post by: Extra Fox on Mon, 15 March 2021, 09:09:49
Post by: Ranger_Trivette on Tue, 16 March 2021, 09:16:45
Post by: Newcomb on Sun, 21 March 2021, 17:35:58
Post by: Mark The Weeb on Sun, 21 March 2021, 21:25:22
Post by: misunderstood_artist on Sun, 21 March 2021, 21:43:42
Post by: Extra Fox on Mon, 22 March 2021, 11:22:58
With only five it might more accurately be called project 50%.
;) :D
Post by: sabomov on Mon, 22 March 2021, 11:30:50
It just occurred to me that if we were being pedantic, there really should be 6 X's on the board, not just 5.
With only five it might more accurately be called project 50%.
;) :D
Nooooo :) 5x because Compound without CMPND vowels (5 letters :)) and when I designed the keyboard I thought that 4x is not enough, 6 is a lot, and 5 is perfect :)
Post by: Extra Fox on Mon, 22 March 2021, 12:43:52
Nooooo :) 5x because Compound without CMPND vowels (5 letters :) ) and when I designed the keyboard I thought that 4x is not enough, 6 is a lot, and 5 is perfect :)Okay, okay. I can live with that explanation. :thumb:
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 03 April 2021, 11:11:57
Post by: honoka on Sat, 03 April 2021, 15:24:45
Are you firm on not having any other layouts supported?
Team iso and such
Post by: sabomov on Sun, 04 April 2021, 01:35:19
I was under the impression that the IC form would at least have an input field for suggestions. Nope
Are you firm on not having any other layouts supported?
Team iso and such
i'm sorry ;( but only tsangan...
Post by: sabomov on Wed, 09 June 2021, 23:48:13
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237299851_04c58e8c53_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4Eyaz)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505888_89899689e6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBpW)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51238361860_12e7369f6a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4KZS5)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51237505903_94db7a9018_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m4FBqc)
Post by: aeternii on Thu, 10 June 2021, 02:24:51
Definitely in for an upcoming GB!
Post by: sabomov on Fri, 16 July 2021, 00:17:28
Post by: RachaXD on Fri, 16 July 2021, 12:03:57
Post by: sabomov on Fri, 16 July 2021, 12:07:22
I really like what I'm seeing so far. I agree that you might need to change the XXXX on the brass weight but other than that.. good job! This mounting style seems very interesting so I'm once it goes to GB!
Thx a lot! GB will start later. I think in one or two weeks.
Post by: keybo_hobo on Sat, 17 July 2021, 03:40:28
But i'll ask my questions anyway=)
1. Do you have plans on suggesting PC wrist rest to match keyboard? Front edge seems to be quite high and such add-on would be nice to see.
2. Are you sure that you don't want to suggest a half plate as an add-on? I mean your plate support standard PCBs and there is enough room between PCB and the bottom of the case. I think combining half plate and something like wilba's weirdflex or plain-flex-60 can give quite nice result.
Or at least have you think about taking commissions on a half plate?
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 17 July 2021, 04:24:50
Wow. If you are planning to start a GB in two weeks, even if it starts in a month, i believe that everything is finalized already.
But i'll ask my questions anyway=)
1. Do you have plans on suggesting PC wrist rest to match keyboard? Front edge seems to be quite high and such add-on would be nice to see.
2. Are you sure that you don't want to suggest a half plate as an add-on? I mean your plate support standard PCBs and there is enough room between PCB and the bottom of the case. I think combining half plate and something like wilba's weirdflex or plain-flex-60 can give quite nice result.
Or at least have you think about taking commissions on a half plate?
Thank you for your feedback.
I will answer your questions:
1) Wrist rest is not planned. The keyboard is not high.
2) Yes I am sure. The keyboard is not designed with flex. The distance between the PCB and the bottom is too small. This distance will prevent flex the PCB.
The keyboard supports WT60-D, Plain 60, etc and Instant 60, but only tsangan layout.
Post by: keybo_hobo on Sat, 17 July 2021, 04:36:08
Do you mind sharing some specs? Front height and weight(built or not).
Post by: sabomov on Sat, 17 July 2021, 06:14:25
Yeah, i also totaly forgot that usb cutout seems to be very tight so any flex is no good.
Do you mind sharing some specs? Front height and weight(built or not).
21mm, 22mm with bumpons. 1.8kg build weight
Post by: DwarZ on Wed, 01 September 2021, 05:14:26
Compound keyboard PCB has been merged in QMK repository. VIA support coming soon!
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/tree/master/keyboards/compound
Post by: Havattack on Wed, 01 September 2021, 12:17:19
Post by: sabomov on Wed, 01 September 2021, 15:25:35
4mm POM? That is awesome. Is there anywhere online to get some 4mm plates lasered? I like the sound, but hate the flex.
Plates are CNC machined, not laser-cut, because thick plates should have notches for proper switch installation.
4mm POM plate has literally no flex whatsoever, but if you REALLY want more solid experience, I am offering 4mm Brass as extra option ;)
Post by: sabomov on Wed, 01 September 2021, 15:25:57
GB link: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=114426.0
Post by: ylothar on Thu, 02 September 2021, 15:34:23
Anyway GLWGB!